you think you're running out of sign pictures and then [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Signgate The Seventh: It's All Bullshit Comment Count

Brian November 5th, 2023 at 6:54 PM

It's All Bullshit. Let us start with this: all of this is bullshit. Bruce Feldman is quoting coaches who think Connor Stalions was worth 21 points a game, Allan Haller is piteously moaning about how MSU players were in danger because Michigan may or may not know what plays they're running, and various Big Ten coaches are up in arms about the Threat To Competitive Integrity.

Bullshit. All of it.

This all came out, Stalions got suspended, everyone is fully aware that they should use wristbands against Michigan, and Vegas reacted by shoving all their Michigan lines towards Michigan. And nobody is using wristbands except the one school in the conference that has mastered Writing and is now able to build a library:

Haller's crocodile tears are doubly ridiculous since the only danger anyone was in in the M-MSU game was Braiden McGregor when he got speared in the helmet. And after a couple of drives of performatively having the quarterback get the call from the sideline, they just went back to signals. If it was really that dangerous, Haller should be fired for Endangering His Players. But it's not. It's bullshit.

If any of this was true, teams would not dare to signal in plays at all:

"People don't understand the seriousness of it," said another source. "How it truly impacted the game plan. To truly know if it's a run or a pass, people don't understand how much of an advantage that was for Michigan."

There was anger interspersed throughout the call, as one source described the sentiment as: "Every game they played is tainted."

Nobody in football really believes this gave Michigan the kind of material advantage that taints the season, not when Michigan has blown out every opponent on the schedule. But give James Franklin an opportunity to spout off anonymously in an attempt to placate the Penn State fanbase staring down another beatdown at the hands of Michigan or Ohio State, and he's going to take it.

This conference has an entire division failing the Brian Ferentz test. The other division has two of the worst P5 teams in America, Rutgers, a Maryland team that just lost to Northwestern, a Penn State team that can't move the ball against anyone with a pulse, and M/OSU. Maybe this conference's problems are not solely due to one low-level Michigan staffer with grandiose ambitions.

[After THE JUMP: rumor du jour.]

On to the rumor du jour. That would be that the Big Ten is fixin' to suspend Jim Harbaugh indefinitely tomorrow. This is ludicrous but I believe it. This post on the message board…

According to my source, Harbaugh will be suspended indefinitely on Monday.  The university is preparing a lawsuit against the conference and asking for an immediate stay on the suspension.  Grounds for the suit are violation of conference rules on investigations and irreparable harm from the timing of the suspension.  My source works for the law firm representing UM in this case.  The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical.

This is about to get real.

…corresponds with a post Sam Webb made yesterday morning, and similar rumblings from Josh Henschke. There have been similar reports in the wider press. One bright side is that it seems like anything other than a Harbaugh suspension is not being considered:

There was talk, for instance, of any penalty not impacting players directly. A suspension of head coach Jim Harbaugh may be the most likely and “cleanest” penalty if one were handed down, one source said.

For 2023 it appears the fight is over Harbaugh and just Harbaugh.

UPDATE: I've been told the earliest this could happen would be Wednesday. 

What then? As mentioned in a previous Signgate piece, Michigan has no intention of showing its belly to anyone on this. Santa Ono's letter to Petitti is polite but reads like an expensive lawyer went over it to lay out the various arguments Michigan will make to a judge in the event the Big Ten does something drastic:

"We, as would any other member of the Big 10, deserve nothing less.  Our students, our coaches, our program — all are entitled to a fair, deliberate, thoughtful process. We are aware that other representatives of the Big10 are demanding that you take action now, before any meaningful investigation and full consideration of all the evidence.  That is not something our conference rules permit.  And we both know it is not what any other member would want if allegations were raised against their people or programs. 

"The Big 10 has not informed us of any investigation of its own, as would be required under conference rules.  And, to be clear, oral updates from NCAA enforcement staff do not and cannot constitute evidence, nor do we think the NCAA would ever intend for an oral update to be given that meaning or weight.  

"The best course of action, the one far more likely to ascertain the facts, is to await the results of the NCAA investigation.  But if you refuse to let the NCAA investigative process play out, the Big 10 may not take any action against the University or its players or coaches without commencing its own investigation and offering us the opportunity to provide our position.  That is not just required by our conference rules; it is a matter of basic fairness."

Raj has some concerns that the commissioner doesn't actually have to have an investigation, but he's also the one who dug up the actual bylaws, and while the language is vague it seems like interpreting the part where they say the commissioner has the discretion to "pursue, or choose not to pursue" an investigation as "the commissioner can hit you with the ban stick without an investigation" is like the various Michigan lawyers who have gone over the NCAA rules with a fine-tooth comb in an effort to exonerate Connor Stalions as the world's greatest loophole exploiter. IMO, anyway. I am not a lawyer.

It seems like it would be enough to sue with, in any case. Webb has a piece up that interviews a Law-Talkin' Guy about said Ono letter and how it applies:

"You have to show that there's a likelihood the moving party will prevail on the merits. Now, this is the most important thing about what Ono did. In my view (it was) a very smart thing. He said, ‘look, you're not following your own procedures if you act.’ That's really a good hook to argue… that it's a good reason to preserve the status quo in terms of prevailing. Because it's unprecedented.”

Joe Simon, the law-talkin' guy, also brings up the fact that if there is a lawsuit both parties will have to go through discovery. This means everyone gets to ask everyone else for relevant documents and depositions, which will be extremely annoying, time consuming, and costly. And if Michigan's gone through their stuff and is confident the paper trail ends at Stalions, that's all upside for them.

A united front. Sounds like this isn't happening if Schlissel is still around, and that Michigan is unified in their opposition to being handed an in-season punishment for penny-ante crap:

Michigan on the offensive. The other piece of the story has been bubbling up in obscure references from insiders on Twitter and in pretty-much-as-obscure posts on the paysites. It seems clear that Michigan has some… stuff. They're going to start releasing that stuff. What exactly that stuff is not fully known, but if this guy who runs a reasonably successful independent college football site and just happens to be an OSU guy is aware of who the firm is…

…a dollar says Michigan does too. And maybe they have something that would tie that firm back to OSU. As Dan Wetzel points out, none of that would do anything with Michigan's case with the NCAA. It might help with the Big Ten since the sturm und drang from the conference is so extreme and looks set to suspend Harbaugh (or at least attempt to) based on no investigation at all. Live by the vibes, die by the vibes.

Two other things that have been hinted at: one is that Stalions got hacked and CommitCrimes.docx, amongst other things, were obtained illegally. Two is that Michigan may have evidence that someone taped their practices. Circumstantially, Michigan put up a privacy screen around their outdoor practice facility this summer. 

Josh Henschke has another two or three things that he "knows" Michigan has evidence of, and a little bit of it is outside the paywall. Isaiah Hole has also been asserting that Michigan was going to start releasing stuff.

Back to Haller. Repeat after me: Michigan State is the most shameless athletic department in America. There's chutzpah and then there's this:

The most powerful message, according to sources familiar with the call, came from Michigan State athletic director Alan Haller. He mentioned the alterations Michigan State needed to undergo in order to prepare for its Oct. 21 game against Michigan after receiving a call Wednesday of that game week about Michigan having Michigan State's signals.

Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt because Michigan players, in theory, knew where they'd be going on plays.

He also referenced last year, when he said the Big Ten forced Michigan State to suspend numerous players after the tunnel incident in Ann Arbor before the league finished investigating the incident. He pointed out that it was hypocritical that this year, with Michigan under investigation, the league is now waiting for an investigation to unfold.

This last paragraph is a flat-out lie. Michigan State suspended the tunnel players. The Big Ten did not act until a full month after the assault, when they fined MSU 100k and suspended Khary Crump for the first eight games of 2023. That month-long investigation was about eight Michigan State players being filmed ganging up on two Michigan players in full view of multiple cameras.

It is probably true that the Big Ten asked MSU to suspend the players, but they were not forced to. In MSU's case getting the suspensions out of the way for a season that was already a 3-5 debacle in the hopes that 2023 would be better was the logical thing to do in any case; the Big Ten was doing MSU a favor. Michigan can point to this as an example of the procedures the Big Ten followed just last year, and surely the suspension of eight players including starters was much more relevant for the teams on MSU's schedule than the fact that they should just frickin' use wristbands is for the teams on Michigan's.

Etc.: It's frosty out there.

Comments

irishwolverine

November 5th, 2023 at 8:33 PM ^

A plaintiff’s case seems strongest the day he files the complaint. After that, evidence, defenses and arguments start to peel away the seeming invincibility of the claims. What seems obvious on day 1 is questionable after discovery. We absolutely need to drag this out to weaken the claims.

And most of it doesn’t even need evidence to refute the talking points. For example, if Stalions was really providing a 21 point advantage, he would have made far more than $55,000 a year. That guy would have been invaluable to the program, not some low level staffer. 

KSmooth

November 5th, 2023 at 8:47 PM ^

Thanks,

Tried to play a bit of Devil's Advocate -- probably not the best time for that, and maybe I got a little too clever too.  Not the first time I've been guilty of that.

Like I said, folks are mad and I can't blame them one damned bit for that.

Just wanted to stop the neg train before I wound up in Bolivia...

uminks

November 6th, 2023 at 1:57 AM ^

When you have OSU behind this it is, it’s really bad and the B1G and OSU are a disgrace to college football! It will end up ruining our program for many years and it was the only way Day could stop losing to Harbaugh by getting rid of his him! This will leave a sour taste for years if the B1G goes through with this!

Wendyk5

November 5th, 2023 at 7:37 PM ^

Release the kraken. I know there's not supposed to be honor among thieves, but in this case, I kind of think there was until this happened. Well, when someone breaks the covenant, all bets are off. 

M-Dog

November 5th, 2023 at 7:38 PM ^

Hey Big Ten ADs, are you sure you thought this through?

You do realize that you have USC moving into the neighborhood, right?  That program has been under some kind of serious investigation / punishment / prohibition every single decade of my life.  And I'm old.

You might want to save some room on the outrage dial.  

Are you sure you want to go Full Eleven by nuking a head coach because a staffer had some of his buddies watch football games in person?

 

gbdub

November 5th, 2023 at 7:39 PM ^

The ADs and coaches focusing on Harbaugh are telling on themselves. 

Nothing that has come out publicly proves that Harbaugh knew about the scheme, let alone was directly involved. If anything, you’d think Minter would be more likely to have direct knowledge… but we hear nary a peep about him. Wonder why that could be?

What possible justification is there to punish Harbaugh, and only Harbaugh, with zero investigation and zero opportunity for Michigan to defend themselves, except for Charmin soft fears and personal vendettas?

 

Carcajou

November 6th, 2023 at 2:26 AM ^

To be fair, the Ohio blogosphere is calling for firing the head coach, OC, and DC (along with forfeited games over the last 2.5 seasons, post season bans, and reduced scholarships for the next 3-5 years) and think anything less would be an outrageous miscarriage of justice.

Denard In Space

November 5th, 2023 at 7:40 PM ^

It speaks volumes that two of the loudest public voices on this have been Haller and Walters, representing two schools that we humiliated AFTER the scandal came out. Blaming a boogie man is a rotten loser's excuse, and I anticipate we're gonna see that on the field the rest of the year. We're finally playing talented teams over the next few weeks but they are led by babies and cowards. That inherent absence has got to trickle down to the players. 

dbrhee

November 5th, 2023 at 9:45 PM ^

Well, there are couple of things..

His program is in rebuild and he has a vested interested in job security if Harbaugh is not there for recruiting, etc..

The other is that Purdue got the signal calls from Michigan last year's championship game.. And from all comments, it was technically illegal (and probably from one of Michigan's rivals). What best way to argue by gaslighting someone for something you have already done.... It diverge the the illegal thing he might be involved to direct to another program... Especially when he would have benefited and had an "unfair advantage"... 

The irony is that it only amplifies him and the program.. He was stupid to mouth because now, the same standard could be placed on him and his program... 

Hensons Mobile…

November 5th, 2023 at 8:14 PM ^

Haller wasn't actually public. His comments from the call were outed by the source. Which, now that you mention it, is kind of...interesting. No one else had their comments or name come out through sources.

Also, Walters didn't say anything after the game. He said it before the game.

Also also, when Rhule last spoke he was worried about health and safety even though we played them weeks ago and the only injury they had was to a defensive back.

Denard In Space

November 5th, 2023 at 8:20 PM ^

It wasn't in the OP but Walters doubled down on the comments after the game:  

https://sports.yahoo.com/purdue-coach-ryan-walters-stands-by-michigan-sign-stealing-comments-im-not-shy-about-speaking-the-truth-145324896.html

Also also also, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by clarifying these nuances. Are these coaches not losers even if these minute points are off? 

Needs

November 5th, 2023 at 7:43 PM ^

The underlying thing in all this story is how little awareness all of the people surrounding college football (ADs and especially national reporters) have about its essential nature.

It is by far, the weirdest, craziest sport in the US, made so by the utter insane devotion of its fans. This is a sport where a guy who was a fan of one school poisoned the trees of another. It's a sport where people refuse to buy gas within the boundaries of states of rival schools (Woody Hayes was not alone in this practice). It's a sport that regularly gives rise to bizarre conspiracies and maybe just true stories that people argue about for years. It's a sport where sign stealing, and rumor spreading, and under-the-table handshakes are rampant. And it's crucially, a sport situated within relatively small communities, where people can become close to, even work their way within programs, just by knowing people. It's a sport full of "insiders" who would, in the NFL, be people dressing up in crazy costumes in the stands.

And yet all of these supposed experts who participate in this sport as the core of their professional lives find it impossible to believe that an obsessed fan, someone obsessed and delusional enough to write a 500 page manifesto, could find his way within a program. That an obsessed fan couldn't hatch a scheme that, in his mind, provided Michigan a competitive advantage without coaches knowledge. And that when he became Michigan's sideline sign stealer, the coaches wouldn't just regard him as a maybe better than average version of something that they, and every other team had long had. 

It's no accident that these people who are so deluded about the nature of college football are also responsible for driving it away from its core identity. I'm not talking about NIL/student-athlete stuff. Allowing 'money-earning amateurism' is as old as college football is. I'm talking about driving the game into big, antiseptic NFL stadia that are virtually free of traditions, and bands, and fans, and the utter insanity that makes the sport what it is. I'm talking about a multi-week, "neutral site" playoff that makes it impossible for fans to participate in the ways that makes the sport great. I'm talking about eliminating annual games that have been played for a century because of a slightly better "TV product." 

It's only that kind of utter obliviousness of the fundamental enterprise that they're all engaged in that has taken this from a funny and ridiculous story to something that they're actually going to try to use to take down the sports weirdest, strangest, and among its best coach. 

omahablue

November 5th, 2023 at 7:48 PM ^

Brian,

Do you think Michigan should look at leaving the Big Ten considering all of this pure insanity?  This is fucked up. This conference is actively engaged in a campaign to defame the program and destroy one of the best seasons in program history. How can Michigan ever engage in honest discourse with any of them?

UMVAFAN

November 5th, 2023 at 8:38 PM ^

Ditch the Big 18. Michigan barely plays the teams from the West Division anymore and things will get worse with the expansion to 18 teams. Is there any difference in playing Wisconsin and Northwestern twice every 6-8 years than playing UNC and UVA twice every 6-8 years? And old historic rivalries with teams like Minnesota are largely irrelevant. The Brown Jug is cute and everything, but is it worth staying in a conference that is ruled by mob justice rather than due process? And do we really want protected rivalries against schools who are leading this mob and who want to severely damage Michigan without letting Michigan defend itself (and in the case of MSU, want to assault and injure our players, too)? Screw OSU and MSU - we’re better off without them.

meeashagin

November 5th, 2023 at 8:06 PM ^

I'm convinced bum azz Luke Fickell, (who's a complete bum as a coach), only took the Wisconsin job to give "just for men" another voice in the room upon the investigation going public. There's a reason OSU fans wanted Fickell fired because he's a bum.

All these B1G coaches that are crying will be fired in the next 3 years. 

The B1G conference is trash as a football conference besides Michigan. Penn State is not good. They beat Maryland by 30 every year so it means nothing. Drew Allar is a checkdown Chuck which won't work vs Michigan. They will want their bum azz coach fired this time next week, promise.

Harbaugh will be the only coach that's still employed by a B1G school 5 years from now. Yes "just for men" will be gone too.

No matter what happens this year we need to lock Harbaugh up long-term then get 15 mill or so and have everyone return. Could you imagine having JJ next year?

UMVAFAN

November 5th, 2023 at 8:17 PM ^

Is it feasible that a defensive staff that shuffles personnel on and off the field as much as Michigan does during the game to pick up the signal and relay it to the players who are rushing onto the field? I can see some advantage from sign stealing if you don’t substitute and your players are on the field the whole time, or when the opposing team audibles, but Michigan is constantly changing personnel nearly every down. And the announcers talk about this constant shuffling every single game!!! 

crg

November 5th, 2023 at 8:25 PM ^

I still find it incredible that - for the various parties that claim they want to punish wrongdoing - these efforts seem entirely targeted at Harbaugh delespite zero evidence shown that 1) he approved of Stallions' actions or 2) was even aware thar it was occuring.  An argument can be made that, as the leader, he bears a responsibility... which, sure, is technically valid.  Yet that shouldn't make him the *focus* of the punishment - it makes to valid sense on a legal or organizational displinary rationale.

Yeoman

November 5th, 2023 at 8:34 PM ^

The usual framing of the situation is that Stalions was caught and then everyone had to decide what the punishment would be.

I think the answer to your questions is more clear if it's reframed as someone looking (possibly for years) for a way to get rid of Harbaugh and having the Stalions thing fall into his lap.