[Bryan Fuller]

Signgate The Eighth: Oh It's Like That Comment Count

Brian November 7th, 2023 at 3:56 PM

Every accusation is a confession. I probably don't need to inform anyone reading this blog that Larry Lage has an AP article out on Michigan opponents colluding to decipher their signs:

ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) — A former employee at a Big Ten football program said Monday it was his job to steal signs and he was given details from multiple conference schools before his team played Michigan to compile a spreadsheet of play-calling signals used by the Wolverines last year.

He spoke with The Associated Press on condition of anonymity, fearing the disclosures could impact his coaching career.

The employee said he shared with Michigan the documents, which showed the Wolverines’ signs and corresponding plays, after his school faced the Jim Harbaugh-led program in 2022.

The person also passed along screenshots of text-message exchanges with staffers from a handful of Big Ten football teams with Michigan, giving the program proof that other conference teams were colluding to steal signs from the Wolverines.

John Bacon tweeted that Rutgers and OSU gave Purdue Michigan's signs before the Big Ten title game, which is likely just the tip of the iceberg. Richard Johnson and Pat Forde had some additional details and confirmation in an article late last night:

A former Big Ten coach at a rival school in recent days forwarded to the Wolverines copies of two single-page documents listing Michigan’s deciphered signals, three sources with knowledge of the situation confirmed to SI. …

A source familiar with the contents of the documents verified their authenticity. The two Michigan signal breakdowns include sections devoted to deciphering the boards held up by staffers with images on them; lengthy lists describing hand signals for running plays; slightly shorter lists for passing plays; and separate lists describing signals for play-action passes. A Michigan source confirmed that the signals described corresponded to their 2022 play calls.

This article goes on to state that "schools sharing signal information is not uncommon in college football, multiple sources in the coaching profession told SI, nor is it against NCAA rules," but… I mean… isn't it?

Whichever programs end up getting named here are executing the exact same sin that Michigan is accused of: in-person scouting of future opponents. In Michigan's case it's randos with iPhones in the stands. In the other Big Ten schools' case, it's employees of Big Ten athletic departments handing over processed intelligence on Michigan's signals to future opponents of Michigan. Kind of sounds like the latter is worse, but drawing fine distinctions is beside the point. If a Stalions guy in the stands is illegal in-person scouting of an opponent, someone literally on the sideline of a Big Ten program forwarding information on to future Michigan opponents is the same thing. And if it's "not uncommon" it's hardly the greatest scandal in the history of the Big Ten.

Also arguing against the disproportionate response: all these teams had Michigan's signals. Even if Stalions had some advantage from his scheme, Michigan's opponents had the same. Michigan still beat these teams. Whatever competitive advantage Stalions provided was negligible. The appropriate thing to do is give Stalions a show cause, fine Michigan for the trouble, institute helmet radios as soon as possible, and move on with our lives.

[After THE JUMP: silly season]

I don't believe you. This is from a WSJ article and contradicts expectations virtually everywhere else:

A person close to the Big Ten has said the conference will defer to the NCAA, which is conducting its own investigation. Such probes often take months if not years.

FWIW.

I also don't believe you. Sometimes a journalist will look at the rules and write some stuff that is technically accurate but has no basis in reality, and, well:

The Big Ten Sportsmanship Policy spells out a wide range of potential penalties aside from a suspension of Michigan coach Jim Harbaugh, according to documents obtained by CBS Sports, as the sign-stealing scandal remains ongoing.

The penalties range from a reprimand to probation to a possible TV ban. Other potential penalties include withholding TV and bowl game revenue from the university. As part of those penalties laid out in Rule 19.5 of the sportsmanship policy, a "staff member" can be suspended.

The TV conference isn't going to suspend the TV team, and there's been no suggestion it would other than this article. Dodd is just listing out all the penalties in the document. It is a deeply funny thing to think about, though.

Why I don't believe the first I don't believe you. McMurphy:

So if Michigan has until Wednesday to respond it seems like Thursday is the earliest possible moment something could be handed down.

Containment shield intact. Per Dan Wetzel and Ross Dellenger, the NCAA has notified the Big Ten that there is nothing linking Harbaugh to Stalion's actions:

The NCAA’s findings do not connect the in-person scouting and recording of opponents’ sidelines to Harbaugh, sources say, an absence of evidence essential to a potential lawsuit from the school and coach against the league.

Over the weekend, the school was given a period of several days in which to mount a response to the conference before penalties, if any, are levied, sources with knowledge of the discussions say. A resolution around the issue is expected by the end of this week and as soon as Wednesday.

The rest of the article is mostly a rehash but we do get another confirmation that the lawsuits will flow if the Big Ten tries to suspend Harbaugh, and the authors note that the coach responsibility bylaw the NCAA recently passed is not a Big Ten policy:

Any suspension of Harbaugh is expected to be met with legal action from both the coach and school, multiple sources tell Yahoo Sports. School officials have held ongoing conversations around legal action tied to a significant fact in the case — that there is no documented evidence that Harbaugh was aware of Stalions’ NCAA rule-breaking.

While under NCAA bylaws head coaches are presumed responsible for a staff member’s actions, the Big Ten sportsmanship policy does not feature such a clause.

The policy holds “institutions,” not head coaches, as “responsible for, and therefore, may be held accountable for, the actions of its employees, coaches, student-athletes, band, spirit squads, mascot(s), general student body and any other individual or group of individuals over whom or which it maintains some level of authority.”

The Lage article should further clarify that there would be no reason to believe that Stalions was exceptionally adept at sign stealing because of his off-book activities. Multiple Big Ten teams were conspiring to get all of Michigan's signals over the course of the season. Even if Stalions did have a team totally downloaded, it wouldn't seem weird to a Michigan program that is facing teams that have totally downloaded them.

OSU: better at this than we are. Dellenger also has an article stating that the NCAA says there is no evidence of a connection between Ryan Day and the sign-stealing probe.

I don't think this changes much. OSU sources were the ones who had this a month before it broke and it is 95% likely that OSU, in some nebulous capacity, is the source of this. That could be someone getting wind of the Stalions Army and shoving it over to a booster, or it could go all the way up the chain but get executed with good opsec.

As the last post noted, if random guys on the internet know what the firm's name is it will come out sooner or later, and then the world will go over it with a fine-toothed comb.

Anybody want a vacuum? This WSJ article is about Connor Stalions being weird:

Apparently the vacuum thing didn't go so well. Stalions ended up with a seller rating of 2.8 on Amazon.

This article is useful in a few ways. One: seems like the bank of mom and dad theory is at least partially correct if Stalions is buying a half-million dollar house on a 55k salary. It also further confirms that Stalions was the kind of guy who would embark on a ridiculously time-consuming plot with little regard to rules or the eventual payoff of that plot. It seems like that was his whole life.

How are we almost ten years into Harbaugh's tenure at Michigan and there is apparently no vetting being done on these hires? There is no way a proper check of who this guy is would not have turned up buckets of red flags.

Comments

Booted Blue in PA

November 7th, 2023 at 4:15 PM ^

Jim said he wanted to be somewhere that wants him....  Santa's warning shot accross the B1G's bow and the massing of legal dogs should have Jim feeling pretty wanted.

 

GET THAT CONTRACT SIGNED!!!!!

RibbleMcDibble

November 7th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^

I maintain that Stalions is exactly the type of person that any college football coach would hire. Veteran, huge fan of the school, extremely dedicated, sleeps in the office, etc. 

Let's be real, Nick Saban had at least two failed vacuum businesses back in the day, but we are talking pre-Amazon so he's managed to keep a lid on it. 

bmon

November 7th, 2023 at 4:18 PM ^

Why did we wait to file the lawsuit? I would think the notice the Big Ten sent us would be grounds enough to move for a TRO. If we wait and they suspend Harbaugh tomorrow, we're not going to be able to get relief in time by Saturday's game. 

bmon

November 7th, 2023 at 4:56 PM ^

You can seek a TRO to prevent imminent harm in most cases. With most lawsuits you have to wait for injury, but not with certain equitable relief like a TRO. I don't think you could file before they sent the notice, but now I don't see the reason to wait. As someone who's litigated TROs and PIs, I don't see any legal reason. 

BlueTimesTwo

November 7th, 2023 at 4:24 PM ^

I wouldn't think that a judge would issue an order for things that might happen.  They don't deal with hypotheticals.  The harm would likely have to be certain and imminent.  If there is still a chance that the B1G could just levy a small fine and no suspension, then there is probably not standing for a court order about a suspension.  The parties are, however, expected to act in good faith, so intentional delays intended to limit our remedies is probably grounds for additional damages later.  Pettiti seems like kind of an idiot thus far, but we will see if he is that big of an idiot.

mgolund

November 7th, 2023 at 5:23 PM ^

I think that's actually the issue. The harm is not necessarily imminent. The letter seems to give the B1G an out from imposing sanctions depending on Michigan's response. We are seeing the response and it might be enough to prevent any sanction. Any injury right now is hypothetical.

bmon

November 7th, 2023 at 5:31 PM ^

You don't have to shown that the harm is certain. Just that there's a risk of imminent harm. Threatening harm is typically enough, even if they won't necessarily do it. 

In other words, all imminent harm is "hypothetical" in some sense--it hasn't happened yet and might not happen. But if someone threatens harm in the near future, that's typically enough to move for a restraining order. 

Vasav

November 7th, 2023 at 5:08 PM ^

I put this in another thread but it's relevant here - knowing what we know, Pettiti should find a way to save face and back down. If he's acting in good faith, he really has no other choice.

Whatever rules M broke, they were functionally not different from what Purdue, Rutgers and OSU did (and likely others). If other coaches wanted to get rid of Harbaugh and duped Pettiti, fine. I can believe was acting this way in the name of fairness. But even if you thought this was a specially egregious case (which he reportedly did), that seems no longer relevant. And now, why would he want to anger one of his 2 best revenue drivers?

If he's a rational actor, he can say "based on information released this week, we will wait until the NCAA concludes its process before any action." Continuing to try to suspend Harbaugh at this point would mean he is not cut out for this job, and not acting in good faith.

Also, if I were him and I went out on a limb against one of my best teams only to have the ground cut from under me by this, I'd be LIVID. He should be holding some AD's and coaches' feet to the fire at their next conference call, for their dishonesty.

bmon

November 7th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^

Yeah, I mean I think the real answer to my original question is that the school would like to see him back down without litigation, so they're willing to play chicken and wait. And that's probably the rational thing to do. But me, being more angry than rational, would have sued as soon as able. 

Ray

November 7th, 2023 at 5:51 PM ^

I agree with almost all of this, but on this point I'd go one step further:

"Whatever rules M broke, they were functionally not different from what Purdue, Rutgers and OSU did (and likely others)."

That Purdue received our signals prior to the championship game, and allegedly TCU also, points towards coaching involvement higher up in Purdue's, Rutgers's and tOSU's respective organizations.  I think this is what really matters here, and JH seems to be on ground much more solid than his counterparts'.  

M Ascending

November 7th, 2023 at 4:28 PM ^

We could file in state court and get an ex parte TRO the same day from a friendly judge.   Federal Court could be more difficult, as those judges are more likely to give the opposing side an opportunity to respond,  even if it's the next day. 

I have been on both sides of this in both jurisdictions. Having less than 24 hours to respond to a TRO petition is a real bear. 

bmon

November 7th, 2023 at 4:58 PM ^

Yeah, I guess I didn't mean to suggest that it would be impossible to get relief. I just don't see the reason to wait. Once the notice issued, I think the harm was imminent enough to support a motion. Might as well give ourselves the time in case the court doesn't move fast enough.

EGD

November 7th, 2023 at 5:57 PM ^

An injunction (whether TRO or full PI) is not a slam-dunk here, either. As some of the posts analyzing the Big Ten rules have shown, those rules have significant ambiguities that a determined B1G commissioner could exploit to defend a suspension. Injunctive relief is always within the discretion of the trial judge—so that poses additional risk, on top of the simple fact that judges at every level vary in their experience and competence and make plenty of mistakes. Litigation is inherently unreliable and even with a rock-solid case you can lose, so doing everything reasonable to resolve this matter without resort to litigation is the smart approach IMO.

DelGriffith

November 7th, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^

So WE had someone at a game we were not playing in who could help us learn signs.

And PURDUE had someone at a game THEY were not playing in who could help them learn signs.

Ours is bad, theirs is fine.

We had the 'randos with cellphones' and they had professional coaches...but WE got a "competitive advantage"

OK, got it.

Goblue89

November 7th, 2023 at 4:28 PM ^

Regarding the PI, I'm not sure what "connected" means but it's rumored the guy who owns the firm is from Manchester, NH and went to Manchester Central High School.  I'll give you one guess who is also from there and attended the same high school.  

Vasav

November 7th, 2023 at 4:43 PM ^

I get the feeling we haven't heard the last of that PI. It's more hilarious if it was Day, but if it's not it still meant someone was so afraid of M on the field they hired a PI. Doesn't really matter from a vibes perspective who it was, since the rest of the league all clamored for Harbaugh's head despite doing something functionally equivalent.

Whomever hired the PI, the entire league looks like they've been crying about losing and tried to get Michigan banned on a technicality.

Yeoman

November 7th, 2023 at 5:23 PM ^

Not even the most dedicated MAnoner thinks Chris Day dropped off a trove of incriminating documents at the NCAA. Or that OSU left a paper trail by formally hiring him. But his timeline is too big a coincidence for me to swallow just yet.

Trace the hacks, if there were any. And find out who executed the media and NCAA drops. And who OSU hired, if anyone. They might not be the same people but there's a connection in there somewhere.

 

True Blue in CO

November 7th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^

Brian mentions it but the easiest solution for this matter is simple compromise. However in these polarizing times, the loud voices out there will not accept compromise but the masses will accept it  

The Compromise 

- BIG and NCAA acknowledge sign stealing exists

- Move immediately to either speakers in helmets for all bowl games or wrist bands

- Come up with an clear solution to eliminate signs next year

- Move on and just keep an eye open for the next trick the paranoid coaches of America come up with and prepare to adapt

bronxblue

November 7th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^

The WSJ has been, I swear, batting basically .000 on this story and it's funny they keep on it.

The Dobbs article was absolutely him just copy-pasting the sentencing guidelines in a book and thinking it was relevant, as if the Big 10 would suspend Michigan from TV even if they felt they could.  We've not seen a commissioner fired midway through his first year but you'd absolutely see it if he even tried that.

I never believed the whole "it's so unsafe for the other team that Michigan would know what signs they were using" but the whole "it's not uncommon to have this information downloaded" just confirms it.  It won't stop fucking Dellenger and Thamel from repeating whatever they see in the Ryan Day WhatsApp thread they've got going but glad it is out there.

OSU has actually been pretty sloppy here in my opinion; it's been clear for a while they're where the information is coming from but because it's Michigan a lot of people still find it funny.  But as more details come out my guess is the court of public opinion turns a bit because while nobody likes cheaters they definitely don't like whiners who cry to the refs because they can't stop you on the field.  And the fact they leaked all this stuff to only OSU-sympathetic sources is pretty brazen.

Stalions is absolutely a weirdo but I do think we need to remember EVERY staff has guys like him.  Because OSU unleashed a competent PI firm on him he was exposed but based on my limited interactions with OSU, PSU, and MSU fans they absolutely have these goobers on their staffs (hell, there's at least one at CMU) and they'd likely do the same if given the opportunity/ingenuity. 

I also remain amazed that CMU is skating with letting Stalions on the sidelines; I assume it's because McElwain is worried about being punished but you'd think we'd know by now.   

bronxblue

November 7th, 2023 at 9:48 PM ^

Yeah.  We act like Stalions being a weird dude is the outlier but DJ Durkin showed videos of animals eating other animals and drills going into eyeballs to his players at Maryland and he's been gainfully employed basically his entire time in college.  

Being obsessed with college football and trying to gain any advantage you can by out-working your competition is sort of expected.

Ray

November 7th, 2023 at 6:13 PM ^

It's funny.  Bad for Apple News, but tonight they carried the "U-M withdrew the Harbaugh contract" WSJ headline from a week ago in their feed today and it reminded me that I've intended to cancel the Apple newsfeed.  Then one thing led to another when it comes to Apple services and I found myself saving something like $50/Mo. 

I think I can subscribe to the Atlantic, the only thing I ever found valuable in the feed, for a lot less.  

bronxblue

November 7th, 2023 at 9:45 PM ^

Yeah, I assume if nothing else MSU would like to know how the hell CMU got a guest pass as a visitor and gave it to a UM staffer.  I assume the NCAA will figure that all out but until we found out that Stalions apparently started a company in WY with Blake Corum's name but without his permission, that was the craziest part of this whole saga. 

DelGriffith

November 7th, 2023 at 4:35 PM ^

MGoLawyers:

If I belong to an organization with rules, and penalties for breaking those rules...do I not have a reasonable expectation that those rules be enforced fairly and evenly?

Michigan belongs to the B1G and the NCAA. If they can show that the rules are enforced arbitrarily, it seems like grounds for a lawsuit...like right now. And it seems like Mr Pettiti could be named personally as the enforcer of those rules.

Hensons Mobile…

November 7th, 2023 at 4:45 PM ^

How thoroughly do we expect every low-level assistant to be vetted and what would we have even decided if we did dig through his life the way it is being looked at now? Oh, he's an odd guy. But very dedicated! I don't know that there were actual red flags. Only in hindsight.

bo_lives

November 7th, 2023 at 4:46 PM ^

So it sounds like a lot of Michigan’s struggles from 2015-2020 were because our opponents were brazening conspiring to steal our signs and likely committing far worse violations of “sportsmanship” and NCAA rules about advance scouting than anything Conner Stalions could dream about. We get to retroactively tack 21 points on every game from that time span, right? Since that’s how this works, I’m told?

I keep thinking about that Urban Meyer video where he admits to having a staffer 100% committing to scouting Michigan. He’s probably the guy who was videotaping our practices. 

bronxblue

November 7th, 2023 at 4:50 PM ^

I mean, I get the argument being made in terms of hysterics by other teams but the big reason UM struggled (relatively speaking) in those years is because they had mediocre-to-bad OCs and struggled on the lines.  That's what always cracked me up about rivals talking about how UM "suddenly" got good - first they were pretty good outside of 2020 most years, and second the biggest difference is they went from swapping backup offensive linemen in at 3 tech to putting a 2-deep of future NFL players on on both sides of the ball and upgraded from "Tim Drevno and Josh Gattis permanently stuck in 2018" with guys who knew how to run modern offenses.

Yinka Double Dare

November 7th, 2023 at 5:04 PM ^

And we also have had better quarterbacks, and better defensive coordinators. Cade was a good college game manager type that made smart decisions and was an excellent leader, the kind of QB that works very well in college when you have an excellent line and running backs. JJ is a 5 star in every way. We went from a guy whose defense talented teams had figured out in Brown, to a guy who was here for a year and went back to the NFL and has producing outstanding defenses, to another guy who has a good track record and will probably end up either in the NFL coordinating a defense or a head coach somewhere in college soon enough.

bighouseinmate

November 7th, 2023 at 4:51 PM ^

I second the move by the B1G to helmet communication for calling plays in. Seems like that would get rid of any questions about sign stealing or play downloading by schools as well as limit or minimize any collusion practices. 
 

Additionally, if I’m the B1G, I make it s violation of conference rules to edit out portions of the All-22 video teams get of opponents. Since seeing the sidelines wouldn’t matter with the helmet communicating, the entire videos should be provided for scouting purposes. Then, if you feel inclined, outline that no in person scouting is to be done, or, make it acceptable to do so for your B1G opponents only. 
 

That levels the playing field, so to speak, and then real consequential violations can be worried about instead of something that even the NCAA feels is nothing, considering they were contemplating getting rid of that rule a couple years ago.
 

The B1g should be the leader in tech advancement for sports, instead of relying on antiquated technology and rules that are vague at best, and hugely gray areas where competitive advantages can be gained by the most crafty.

markusr2007

November 7th, 2023 at 4:58 PM ^

Whos is responsible for UM Athletic Department Human Resources?

Can Michigan simply fire that person/those persons and finally bring in some competence and curiosity into who is actually being hired/background checked/onboarded?

blueheron

November 7th, 2023 at 4:58 PM ^

You know how Michigan fans would, in the past, say they had grudging respect for OSU?

I hope no one is naive and stupid enough to ever hold that opinion again. OSU has shown that it's basically Sparty -- or worse -- with better players.

In trying to kneecap Michigan they also showed that they think they're fully above the law and that they run the Big Ten. At least a few other schools are OK with that!