[Patrick Barron]

More Sign Stuff Comment Count

Brian October 23rd, 2023 at 7:37 PM

Message board guy for the win. Designated NCAA leak recipient Pete Thamel has a new article out with some details that more or less confirm the post on our message board that I thought was credible when I posted on Friday. Thamel is an irritating writer who habitually writes his articles in such a way as to maximize the scandalousness of whatever's going on…

Stalions forwarded the tickets he bought to at least three different people in different areas of the country, sources say, which hints at the breadth of the operation.

…so I don't want to quote from it heavily. But the upshot is:

  • Stalions bought tickets to ~30 games at 11 Big Ten schools in his own name.
  • He sent those tickets to other people.
  • Those people taped the sidelines.

As Seth pointed out on Twitter, Thamel—or the person feeding him—seems to have misinterpreted an area of the NCAA bylaws that's meant to restrict what you can do on your own sideline. Also note that these games go back three years; Stalions was hired in May of 2022.

A precedent, but probably not particularly applicable. A message board poster dug up a Baylor infractions case from 2016 where an assistant coach attended a game of a future opponent and was handed a half-game suspension. The NCAA has traditionally been disinclined to do much about minor one-off issues, which are labeled "secondary violations" and get tit-for-tat punishments. They don't contribute in any way to a larger case of lack of institutional control. Most schools self-report a handful of these on an annual basis.

It seems clear that Stalions was engaging in an extended scheme to try to benefit Michigan football and this will not be handled as a secondary violation. But about that…

[After THE JUMP: mmm parsing]

Hooray for legalese. This is the internet, and it is specifically the Michigan internet, so we are overrun by lawyers parsing the NCAA rulebook and saying "welllllll…" The bylaw Michigan is accused of violating literally says only this: "Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited." The end. Friend of blog Richard Hoeg:

Dan Wetzel has an article that goes into the gray areas:

No source has suggested that any Michigan staffers, assistants or athletic department employees were flying off to games to scout in person. Almost everyone, after all, has their own gameday duties. Plus, doing so would require a vast conspiracy including, almost assuredly, the athletic department accounting office reimbursing travel costs. …

Sources have said any information from in-person observation came from others. Who are they? It’s not known publicly, but perhaps friends, family, fans? Anyone willing — if you accept the allegations — to go to a game and acquire information.

In a legal sense — NCAA legal — would random people who knew a coach or Michigan staffer be considered representatives of Michigan’s athletic interests?

The bylaw against in-person scouting does not state who is prohibited from off-campus scouting. Could that mean everyone? Or only the coaching staff? Or athletic personnel also? When the rule was first enacted in 1994, no one could have envisioned cell phones filming sidelines. Or maybe no one could have considered anyone would have attempted to send some old friend to the game.

Or consider this: Every coaching staff in the country receives unsolicited emails from random fans offering free “advice” on how the team should play. If a coach opens an email from a fan — or runs into one at a coffee shop — who said he was at a previous game against this week’s opponent and notes they should exploit the Cover 2 defense, is that a violation?

If this gets into a heated NCAA case, expect the definition of who is and isn’t prohibited from scouting to be a big deal.

Personally I do not think that Stalions's sleight of hand is going to fly as a reason to let his scheme slide. I do think a competent Michigan defense ties up as many resources as possible arguing it.

The NCAA acknowledges this is not a major advantage. The rules committee actually considered repealing 11.6.1 a couple years ago. Their rationale:

Rationale: The Board of Directors Infractions Process Committee requested that the Legislative Committee Modernization of the Rules Subcommittee focus its rules modernization efforts on identifying rules that no longer serve the needs of the membership and the 21st century student-athlete, and recommending modifications to or the elimination of such rules. Specifically, livestreams of intercollegiate competition and prerecorded game film are readily available in the digital age. The minimal competitive advantage gained by scouting future opponents in-person is outweighed by the monitoring and enforcement burdens of ensuring compliance with the legislation.

Michigan's sign stealing operation already worked with available TV and all-22 tape plus past games against the same opponents; the additional benefit of Stalions's operation is unknowable but is probably minimal.

I doubt any of this gets traced any further up the chain than Stalions. "Is it plausible this guy was just BUYING TICKETS on his 55k salary HIMSELF?!?!" I mean, yes. Yes, Connor Stalions is the kind of Michigan superfan who would spend a bunch of his own money to help Michigan win in any way imaginable:

All through college, Connor spent summers and time off returning to Michigan to volunteer at U of M football camps and clinics. There was no vacation, just relentless pursuit of improving his coaching craft. He quickly befriended the assistant coaches and gained their trust because he was willing to do any work.  Upon graduating from the Naval Academy he was stationed at Camp Pendleton in San Diego for basic training. 

Connor knew he had to keep volunteering at Michigan to pursue his dream, so he had to find a way to make money to fund all of his volunteer work.  He bought a house near the airport and rented all its bedrooms on AirBnB while he slept on the couch. Then he realized he could shorten his commute if he just slept in the car.  So, he did and pocketed enough money to travel to every Michigan football game on his own dime to volunteer.  He did this for years and finally earned a full-time entry position as an offensive analyst.  

This is exactly the kind of person who would buy various tickets to Big Ten games so people he knows can film the sideline and his sign-stealing can be marginally more effective. Also, the fact that he bought them in his name reveals a sort of naivete that is less likely the higher this goes up the chain. It seems likely Stalions thought this would be okay if he didn't go himself.

There is not going to be a postseason ban, now or at any point in the future. The NCAA has probably issued its last-ever postseason ban when it blocked Oklahoma State from the NCAA tournament. Since, we've seen instances of a head coach literally, personally paying recruits and an FBI-sourced scheme to pay recruits to go to Kansas result in approximately nothing. LSU, NC State, Arizona, and perpetual offender Louisville also avoided any meaningful punishment.

The NCAA has not even issued a notice of allegations, and Michigan has 90 days to respond to one.

The prospect of the NCAA massively deviating from its recent infractions history to hammer Michigan outside the bounds of its own rules for a low-level staffer engaging in a practice the NCAA itself believes offers a "minimal competitive advantage" is so far beyond the bounds of credibility to strain credulity. If you are conspiracy-minded about the infractions committee being out to get Harbaugh, you should note that an equally credible conspiracy theory is that television executives would have a conniption fit if Michigan was banned from the postseason.

What's going to happen, in all likelihood: Stalions will be given a show cause, Michigan will be fined a surprisingly large amount of money, they will be given a lengthy probation, and that's it.

Comments

diji1994

October 23rd, 2023 at 11:18 PM ^

Given the timeline of how it will all play out I don’t think there will be any repercussions handed out until a year from now. However, there’s a pretty high likelihood that this year’s potential championship would end up vacated which stinks. 

JimmyFresh

October 23rd, 2023 at 11:32 PM ^

Nah, they addressed this before any big games were played.  It would be the lamest move of all time for Michigan to go out and win a championship and then take it away from them….after the alleged bad actor (Stalions) was removed from the sidelines.  Either they move ahead quickly and try to disqualify Michigan before the CFP (highly unlikely) or they just let this season stand as is.  We are talking about the NCAA, but I think they’ll go after Harbaugh and Michigan in other ways.  

rice4114

October 24th, 2023 at 2:09 AM ^

He meant the NCAA wouldnt care. When 2 huge "scandals" break in the same year Michigan peaks as a program its just a little suspicious. Also how do we also, in one calendar year, have more scandals then Alabama over the last 15 years? You think you can have a top 2 recruiting class for a decade and a half and not have a few bumps?

Durham Blue

October 23rd, 2023 at 11:22 PM ^

Does it matter that Stalions bought tickets to games for other people?  Where is the evidence that those purchased game tickets were ultimately turned into video tape of the sidelines, and then used to decode signs?  Unless Stalions' computer somehow has everything gift wrapped for the NCAA, how can this possibly be proven?  What surveillance video is being talked about that shows the smoking gun?

Short of the hard evidence, Michigan getting any sort of penalty would be beyond ridiculous.

JimmyFresh

October 23rd, 2023 at 11:40 PM ^

I believe Stalions thought he was clever and was doing an amazing job of skirting the rules.  From all the paper trails he’s left behind so far, I’m sure there’s lots of damning game video on that laptop.  He didn’t think he needed to hide anything because he honestly didn’t think he was technically breaking any rules.  Just my hunch.  

Durham Blue

October 23rd, 2023 at 11:50 PM ^

I’m sure there’s lots of damning game video on that laptop

We don't know that.  The story broke a day or two before any computers were turned over to the NCAA.  That is more than enough time to work with an IT wizard friend to clear any and all traces of game tape, if in fact anything like that was on his computer.  Like I said, the laptop is everything to the NCAA's case.  It is the only thing that can prove their case.  And what's to say that the computer provided to the NCAA is THE computer?  I am not overtly advocating being deceitful, but on the other hand, fuck off NCAA.  Make them chase a ghost for 5 years.

EDIT: and who is to say that Conor Stalions wasn't actually smarter about this than we are giving him credit for?  Maybe he understood he was operating in a grey area and was careful about the steps he took to stay covert.  Perhaps he watched all these alleged videos and took copious notes on paper then immediately wiped and scrubbed away the videos from alleged electronic device(s) when he was done.  The notes on paper may now be shredded into oblivion.  Or maybe he naturally shredded his notes after game day because chances are the sign decodes are probably only good for at most one game against any opponent.  There are a multitude of ways that Stalions could've covered his tracks.

JimmyFresh

October 24th, 2023 at 12:04 AM ^

I’m with you.  I hope the computer they got their hands on doesn’t have shit on it.  I’m not optimistic about it though.  We probably have one over zealous staffer who’s trying to be a big shot and advance his career.  This isn’t some “vast network” of people like the narrative some people in sports media are pushing for clicks.  This is all so stupid.  

Harmon4Heisman

October 24th, 2023 at 7:52 PM ^

Sopwith, the guy referenced in the beginning of this article that seemed to know the extent of the scouting operation the day the story broke and has been commenting what seems like insider info, said “but unfortunately what I do know also suggests Cpt. Stalions was at a minimum a little sloppy about segregating work/personal texts to different devices. And didn't necessarily follow best practices that would be second nature to someone actually trained in intelligence gathering.” So ya, there might be some stuff on that laptop. 

bronxblue

October 24th, 2023 at 8:38 AM ^

Yeah, the fact a bunch of people can argue different interpretations of this rule makes me think Stalions thought he was just being clever.  Like a lot of rules they are purposely written somewhat broadly so that enforcement is easier but it also opens it up to people being cute about details.

UM is going to be punished for this but the underlying violation (stealing signs) isn't a crime here so at best we're arguing about the method and that's where the vagueness seemingly limits the ceiling provided the NCAA doesn't just have a hard on to punish Harbaugh.

Harmon4Heisman

October 24th, 2023 at 7:51 PM ^

Think you might be unfortunately right, as Sopwith, the guy referenced in the beginning of this article that seemed to know the extent of the scouting operation the day the story broke and has been commenting what seems like insider info, said “but unfortunately what I do know also suggests Cpt. Stalions was at a minimum a little sloppy about segregating work/personal texts to different devices. And didn't necessarily follow best practices that would be second nature to someone actually trained in intelligence gathering.” So ya 

BKBlue94

October 23rd, 2023 at 11:57 PM ^

What I'm worried about is vacating wins in which we got an even minimal competitive advantage - vacating those two big ten championships we just won. Know a lot of people wouldn't even care and say we still have those wins, but it'd matter to the rest of the world and I think it makes a difference. 

tybert

October 24th, 2023 at 12:02 AM ^

People are GROSSLY overreacting to any downside here. I sincerely doubt this was in any way supported by or orchestrated by any main coach on our staff.

Stalions is a rabid UM ran who went bonkers trying for a competitive advantage. 

At best we pay a fine of say 100K to placate NCAA causes. No probation. NO "vacated games" and no post season bans.

I do think Sparty drove this given the timing and we broke their record worse home loss. 

Durham Blue

October 24th, 2023 at 12:38 AM ^

People are GROSSLY overreacting to any downside here. I sincerely doubt this was in any way supported by or orchestrated by any main coach on our staff.

Not sure if this matters in the eyes of the NCAA.  Conor Stalions was, and still is, a paid employee of the Michigan athletic department.  The buck stops with the head coach.  The NCAA doesn't care that Harbaugh had no knowledge.  They can still hammer the entire program for this thing.  That said, I don't believe the NCAA can prove the allegations.  The dude bought tickets to games for people.  And buying tickets to games for other people to attend is not a rules violation.  This is all the facts the NCAA has right now, to my knowledge.  Unless the laptop that was provided to the NCAA makes their case, there is really nothing else that proves Stalions, and therefore Michigan, did anything that broke NCAA rules.

pescadero

October 24th, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^

A lack of institutional control is found when the Committee on Infractions determines that major violations occurred and the institution failed to display:

– Adequate compliance measures.

– Appropriate education on those compliance measures.

Sufficient monitoring to ensure the compliance measures are followed.

– Swift action upon learning of a violation.

B. Pilgrim

October 24th, 2023 at 3:21 PM ^

What’s deemed sufficient monitoring, though? I feel like there could be reasonable monitoring in place that wouldn’t catch this if he was determined to do it.
 

If there’s no evidence that someone higher up in the department asked him to do this, are they still responsible for monitoring things that occur outside of the program? Personal purchases, usb drives, emails?

 

If he’s assigned to watch broadcast video and try to decode signs (which isn’t illegal) and then types up a report with his findings, is there supposed to be someone who verifies the video he used by going through his hard drive (maybe he only had it on his personal computer).

umfan83

October 24th, 2023 at 12:12 AM ^

I will go to sleep tonight dreaming of reading RCMB on the day Michigan's punishments are announced and amount to a slap on the wrist.  Oh that is going to be such enjoyable reading.

b618

October 24th, 2023 at 3:11 AM ^

Here's how I see it.

If the rule says "you can't take scouting video in person", and you don't, but you pay a 3rd party to record video and use that, you aren't violating what that rule says.

If the rule is to be interpreted as "you can't take scouting video in person, and you can't have a 3rd party do it and then use that video", then there is a problem because all coaches are constantly using such video provided by paid 3rd parties.

For the NCAA to take the broader interpretation, it has perhaps two problems.  First, the broader interpretation is perhaps not what the rule says.  A person can argue that rules have to say what they mean.  You can't intuit what was in the mind of the person who drafted it or go by some nebulous unwritten spirit of the rule.  Second, if the rule means that you can't use video created by a 3rd party, every coach on every team violates that rule all the time.  You can't single out one person for doing it when everyone else has been doing it for one or two decades with no problems.

I'd think that Michigan would have a lot of ability to push back.  If it wants to.  (My fear is if Michigan institutionally likes self flagellation.)

b618

October 24th, 2023 at 1:54 PM ^

There is a problem, I think, though, distinguishing between a non-staff guy you pay to get you video and a company you pay to get you video.  Neither of those are staff.  Neither are employees.  That makes them 3rd parties, I would think, unless you get into mental gymnastics trying to distinguish between the two, when none of that distinguishing language is in the rules.

If you don't have verbatim interpretation of this rule, it runs into messes of such distinctions because it is a rule that is poorly thought out.

pescadero

October 24th, 2023 at 2:46 PM ^

It will almost certainly fall under the same metrics as "boosters":

 

"an individual, independent agency, corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization who is known (or who should have been known) by a member of the institution’s executive or athletics administration or an athletics department staff member to have participated in or to be a member of an agency or organization promoting the institution’s intercollegiate athletics program, to have made financial contributions to the athletics department or an institution’s booster organization, to assist or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes, or to assist or to have assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes or their family members."

berto714

October 24th, 2023 at 7:30 AM ^

I’m having trouble seeing this with rose colored glasses. The idea that Michigan will escape any real punishment because they bring in lots of money and viewers doesn’t really track with me. Other big programs that bring in money have been hit in the past, and viewership for those teams didn’t really decline (OSU, USC). Why would people stop watching Michigan if they got penalized? As long as they don’t get the death penalty (which let’s be real isn’t on the table) it won’t really impact revenue. Maybe I’m missing something though?

bronxblue

October 24th, 2023 at 8:34 AM ^

I think UM will get probation, a big fine, and scholarship reductions (for whatever that's worth).  But we just had LSU and KU get caught with far worse violations and nothing much happened.  USC and OSU happened decades ago, and id argue were for far more egregious and deep violations.  

Division I-AA

October 24th, 2023 at 8:05 AM ^

As a neutral, I would say that:

- I actually can see the potential value of a rule that prevents a school from spending unlimited sums of money to steal other schools' signs; but

- Such a rule does fit pretty awkwardly alongside the current rules allowing a school to spend unlimited sums of money to steal other schools' players.

Catchafire

October 24th, 2023 at 8:12 AM ^

1.  Teams sign steal.

2.  This is an archaic NCAA rule.

There will probably be more drips of GOTCHA news, but I think the worst of the Stallion news is behind us...

I hope.

NeuroRadsDad

October 24th, 2023 at 8:13 AM ^

As a lifelong fan trying to raise my kids up to root for UM in Buckeye territory, this mess is becoming increasingly more annoying. It feels like fait accompli at this point to me with the amount of media attention and gnashing of teeth. Here’s how I see this playing out with maximum karma:

** I guess the scenario only holds true if the Big Ten continues to allow opponents to consider not playing us.

1. Purdue will probably play us because they are Purdue and really don’t have anything to lose. Depends how much flack they get from other Big Ten teams.

2. Penn State has to play us. Throttling Michigan is their only possible scenario of getting into the playoffs.

3. Ohio State drags this through the media for weeks but also makes the ultimatum that they will not play Michigan. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain in the scenario (assuming Big Ten still allows us this happen). It’s karma for Harbaugh backing out during Covid season, gives Day maximum shine for his fan base, and basically allows the buckeyes to walk into the playoffs. 

Love Michigan but they massively screwed the pooch here. Hubris and karma is a bitch.

bronxblue

October 24th, 2023 at 8:30 AM ^

JFC, OSU is not going to be able to back out of a game because somebody went into the gray area of a rule to videotape some GameDay footage.  We can all quibble about 2020 and just how big of a COVID breakout was on the team but that was a global pandemic and LOTS of games were being cancelled due to breakouts.

Also, fucking save me with this "karma and hubris" bullshit.  OSU had a coach who talked about how moral and upstanding he was and then repeatedly covered for a spousal abuser.  You don't get to play the moral high card.

mgobleu

October 24th, 2023 at 9:23 AM ^

I’m over all the histrionics already. Obviously the NCAA has a piss poor track record for inconsistent rules enforcement, and anything is as serious as they want to make it, but I just can’t get it up for this. 

I highly doubt anyone in the program was involved beyond Stalions but even if they were, the level of “cheating” being talked about here is about a 2/10 on the sketchy shit scale.

Cam Newton took a $200,000 bribe and the only thing he had to do to cover his butt was to have the check written to his dad, and the NCAA said “well shucks”.

But a low level staffer has his buddies watch and tape games of opponents and the NCAA immediately starts dusting off the guillotine? I don’t buy it. 

Besides the fact that the rule and the purpose for it is so nebulous, and the thing they’re doing is technically legal and literally part of the game? If there’s any legit serious penalty handed down for this like vacated wins or cut scholarships, I might just be done with CFB. 

DiploMan

October 24th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^

It sounds more and more like Stalions' only qualification for his job was an enthusiasm unknown to mankind.

Jim might want to think about amending his credo to include a caveat about also exercising good judgment.

rposly

October 24th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^

Thank you, Brian, for assuaging my admittedly irrational stress meltdown, at least for a little while.  You're doing the lord's work, as you know.