[Bryan Fuller]

Let's Do That Hockey (This Is Not A Hockey Post) Comment Count

Brian November 9th, 2020 at 1:26 PM

11/7/2020 – Michigan 21, Indiana 38 – 1-2 Big Ten

Some years back, Michael Weinreb had an odd sinecure. Every three months some publication would ask him to write the same article dumping on Michigan football, and he'd write it, and I'd roll my eyes and occasionally Yell On The Internet about it. We've got a tag and everything. It's only got one post in it, but I created it because I thought that six times was enough. Weinreb would write the same article about Michigan every few months until the sun baked the planet into lava. We needed a tag. Then he stopped.

These pieces were and are extremely bad. I mean:

Maybe, by essentially professionalizing the recruiting process, Harbaugh is dispensing with the pretense that college football is still an amateur sport.

In addition to making no sense, these arguments don't even dump on Michigan from the correct angle. The correct angle: Michigan does 95% of the things every other athletic department does and then sniffs its own butt about the other 5% while being dumped in a toilet by OSU. Weinreb's series of articles was so infuriating because he was the only person in the universe who could get paid to dump on Michigan for excessive rather than insufficient moral turpitude.

And yet I still remember a single ominous sentence from six years ago in his piece on the Harbaugh hire:

I would worry most of all that if Harbaugh somehow fails at Michigan, it will be the most definitive proof yet that no one can succeed in Ann Arbor anymore.

That's obviously overstated until you're staring down a 2-6, 3-5 kind of season in year six and the Black Pit Of Negative Expectations has signed a long-term lease in your head.

---------------------------------------------------------

I can't imagine Jim Harbaugh makes this work any more. Michigan jumped offsides against Michigan State twice. They went back to practice, watched some film, tried to self-correct, and jumped offsides five times in the first half based on nothing more than quarterback hand claps.

A fully operational recruiting setup brought Michigan this bounty of cornerbacks and defensive tackles. After a three-month-long fall camp Michigan still thought that these guys could play press man. It turns out Chris Partridge left for Ole Miss not to be DC, but to be an assistant to DJ Durkin, of all people. Michigan was down three scores in the fourth quarter and still strolling up to the line, content to blow thirty seconds on a running clock.

Michigan has disastrous recruiting at key spots, can't retain coaches, can't run tempo, can't get lined up against tempo, can't hang on to the same running approach for more than half a season. This is systemic and goes back to the head coach. We've seen most of these issues over the last few years. They were covered by a lot of talent. Now they're not. The usual flush-and-reset coordinators that buys you some more time has already happened.

The question, then: why would this get better? I mean "beat Ohio State" better, not "beat Indiana again" better. You can make a case for that based on the youth of the roster, COVID, Ambry Thomas exiting, etc. But we've seen good Michigan teams enter the Ohio State game. They were competitive when OSU was running JT Barrett out there. They have not been competitive after OSU switched from great runners and functional passers to NFL QBs throwing to a bunch of five-star WRs. They sure as shit aren't going to be competitive going forward with this group of corners.

But then you survey the situation and Michigan's specific brand of punching itself in the nuts because the hands of filthy outsiders are never to approach the hallowed scrotum…

…and you wonder what the point of replacing him would be.

I'm going to assume this is one gentleman talking out of his butt and that Warde Manuel is not going to find a Michigan Man to do Michigan Things like always lose to Ohio State. This is because there is literally no "Michigan Man" who is even 1% qualified for the job. Michigan's series of failed coaches has created literally no coaching tree. The most plausible Michigan-associated coach who isn't a million years old may literally be first-year Indiana offensive coordinator Nick Sheridan. Scot Loeffler, who is 3-10 at Bowling Green and has been in charge of some of the worst Power 5 offenses of the past decade, is the main (only?) competition unless you think John Harbaugh is achievable, which nope.

So there's where we are. The great hope is pretty much done, and if things have gone like they have over the past 15 years the program will either hire a deeply incompetent makeweight or try to go outside the family and eat the interloper at the first sign of weakness.

Anyway, hockey time! Moussa Diabate time! Why wallow?

[After the JUMP: Team Milton here]

AWARDS

Known Friends and Trusted Agents Of The Week

you're the man now, dog

-2535ac8789d1b499[1]#1 Ronnie Bell. 149 receiving yards including one of those pogo-stick touchdowns we thought he might have in him but had not seen yet. Would have easily crested 200 if Milton hadn't overthrown him when he was wide open for a long TD. Also was so annoying that he induced an ejection from an Indiana defender after one (1) catch.

#2 Dax Hill. The worst thing about this defense is that Dax Hill is indeed the promised one who can run with you on your slot fades and also tackle you on crossing routes. He forced multiple Indiana punts in man coverage the rest of the defense can't run.

#3 Joe Milton. Michigan put it all on his shoulders and he performed beyond expectations even with the killer INT. (The second one, whatever.) Zero ground game, 10 YPA, many drops.

Honorable mention: Cornelius Johnson had a pretty DT and three other catches. Kwity Paye was again almost sacking the QB continually. Brad Robbins averaged 54 yards a kick and Indiana had just 5 return yards.

KFaTAotW Standings. (Scoring: 8 points for first, 5 for second, 3 for third, 1 for HM. Points from ties adjudicated by an ankylosaur named Sharon.)

14: Joe Milton (#1 Minnesota, #3 MSU, #3 Indiana)
10: Dax Hill (#2 MSU, #2 Indiana)
9: Ronnie Bell (HM Minnesota, #1 Indiana)
8: Giles Jackson(#1 MSU)
5: Kwity Paye(T2 Minnesota, HM MSU, HM Indiana)
3: Aidan Hutchinson(T2 Minnesota), Michael Barrett(#3 Minnesota)
2: Hassan Haskins(HM Minnesota, HM MSU)
1: Ben Mason (HM Minnesota), Jaylen Mayfield (HM Minnesota), Roman Wilson (HM MSU), Brad Robbins(HM Indiana), Cornelius Johnson(HM Indiana)

Who's Got It Better Than Us(?) Of The Week

Joe Milton uncorks a deep ball to Cornelius Johnson; Johnson lays out for a purty touchdown.

Honorable mention: Several other Milton whang throws that looked like the rough outline of an NFL quarterback.

image?MARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.

The second time Indiana scored a touchdown on a free play.

Honorable mention: The first time Indiana scored a touchdown on a free play. The other seventy-five times Michigan jumped offsides. Plays in man coverage. Plays in zone coverage. The backbreaking Milton INT.

OFFENSE

The one controversy, apparently. A tweet:

This got a bunch of replies split about 50/50 between resigned agreement and guys demanding excellence because he missed Bell on a woulda-coulda touchdown and threw a bad interception. The latter folks are wrong and in their feelings because the football team sucks.

Milton averaged 10 yards an attempt despite suffering a spate of drops. He had guys in his face all day because the line can't pick up stunts and was continually facing down third and long because Michigan's ground game was nonexistent. If he was not the only functioning part of the team he would be good enough to win. But he's a redshirt sophomore who entered as a massive project. He's not ready to put a team on his back.

Milton is about the only guy on the team who is meeting expectations aside from the defensive ends. You can see it coming.

A note on the first interception. That was not a bad read, necessarily, but a bad throw. Indiana is in cover two and Johnson was sitting down in the hole. The cover 2 hole:

On the skycam replay you can see Johnson start to retreat upfield once he reads the ball coming out of Milton's hand, because it's winged probably five yards upfield and on a line. If it's accurate it's another ball that zings past a defender, IMO.

That's the kind of throw you don't want to discourage too much because it's the whole reason having a cannon arm is real nice.

The nonexistent ground game. Haskins had one 11-yard run. The other 12 carries from RB/WRs went for 11 yards. I get to find out exactly what happened later but I'll tell you what I suspect now: Indiana has a defense that blitzes from everywhere, particularly off the corner, and every time this happened Michigan failed to adapt.

Michigan's OL blew it against an MSU defense that was running basic T/E twists; Indiana's approach was always going to cause problems, especially with the starting tackles out and a true freshman in the starting lineup.

The inexplicable. Milton had two runs. IIRC one of them was a scramble. On approximately all of the handoffs Milton was not looking at an end to option him off, but turning his back to the line of scrimmage. So the offense neither had a meaningful amount of QB run game nor any attempt to even up numbers in the box by using Milton as a threat to keep.

I rather think the idea of keeping your quarterback healthy goes out the window when you're down three scores to Indiana, so that fails as an explanation. So this is the second straight year where Michigan's ground game is being seriously harmed by a lack of QB runs. This one happens after Milton looked great against Minnesota—patient, fast, hard to bring down.

I cannot fathom what is going on here.

DEFENSE

Furk. Hutchinson headed for surgery:

Chris, Aidan's father, said that they expect him to be out four months. Deleting the best player from the defense is bad, IMO.

Can't zone either. I don't think anyone's surprised that Michigan tried a bunch of zone in this game and continually left big pockets in it.

LB #40 to top

VanSumeren leaves with the TE and mesh still works. That's not necessarily on BVS since someone needs to cover the tight end and neither safety seems inclined, but it is a demonstration of what happens when you're a man press team suddenly required to run a ton of zone. Have they practiced it? Yes. Have they practiced it like Iowa? No.

As a result. For the second straight week there were a ton of plays where Michigan was to the quarterback about as fast as possible and got nothing for their troubles. Penix's third and long shot between three defenders was one as Paye was around at eight and into Penix's back. That throw was a tip-your-cap moment where he had a small window and nailed it under pressure.

In the area. Vincent Gray did improve from a week ago, as he was generally in the area when balls came to his man. He had a nice PBU. But also Indiana dunked on him repeatedly and there were more panic flags. Gemon Green got hit on the first free-play TD but it looked like he got a hand on the ball at the peak and just couldn't quite rake it out. I'll take that given, you know, everything.

I don't have a lot else to say? The corners aren't good in man and their zone isn't practiced enough to be good. The end.

SPECIAL TEAMS

Nice punting, guy! Brad Robbins really socked it to 'em. Netting 53 yards a kick is wild.

MISCELLANEOUS

I mean. Tom Allen would not be the worst idea if there is a coaching changeover. He's made chicken salad out of Indiana's available defensive parts and seems like a cultural fit. He's got Sheridan and Hart on his staff.

ELSEWHERE

The only thing you need to see this week is the Mood:

Historic-Mood-5

They found the fromage guy.

Comments

TrueBlue2003

November 9th, 2020 at 7:42 PM ^

I don't know why people think Fickell is a slam dunk. Everyone wins at Cincinnati except Tommy Tuberville who was beyond washed up.

Seriously, Mark Dantonio won there, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones, etc.  It's a school that has a dramatic recruiting advantage - as the "second" team in Ohio - compared to its conference brethren.

To me, his experience is way too light to feel confident about him. And there's a reason OSU didn't hire him.  And there's also a reason MSU is the best program that's shown interest thus far.

I would hope Warde isn't strict about Michigan ties, but I just don't think Fickell is a very good candidate.

GoBlueZ06

November 9th, 2020 at 10:20 PM ^

Thank you, I don't understand the infatuation with Fickell. This is the one guy in the last 20 years to take OSU and go 6-6?  Not like the cabinet was bare for that season either.  Setting program building and X's/O's aside, would he be able to recruit at the level required to achieve the goals we all have in mind?  I.E. is he going to bring in talent that can close the gap with OSU?   Cincinnati's schedule certainly gives ample opportunity to put up a shiny record but does that translate to success in the Big Ten and at the level Michigan and its fanbase demands?  I have my doubts.

Also, I wouldn't put much weight on anything Spath is saying about Warde Manual, consider the source.  By the way, are we not happy with the basketball and hockey head coaching hires he has made, Michigan ties or not?  Sure seems to me like both were great hires.

UncleLeo

November 10th, 2020 at 12:32 PM ^

I can't say you're necessarily wrong about the advantages or comparative easiness of winning there, but before Dantonio's stint, Cincinnati was very mediocre for a long time. And as you said, a bad Tommy Tuberville did manage to find mediocrity again pretty quickly. But both Dantonio and Kelly left and have had as much or more success than any stretch at Michigan over the past two decades. Even Butch Jones won 11 games at Central and had a pair of 9 win seasons at Tennessee. You could probably argue that giving a shot at a bigger gig to a Cincinnati HC has been a winning bet for a while now. 

 

As for Fickell, is he a slam dunk? Absolutely not! But he's well worth looking into. 

Salinger

November 9th, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^

Totally agree. At this stage, what does this "Michigan Man" concept even mean? For an entire generation of fans, Michigan Man has 0 resonance.

Here are the facts. Michigan is at best a B level team who occasionally looks good in games they should win before getting smoked by OSU. 

Else

They are a not very good team who gets smoked by teams they should beat handily. 

I hate being such a downer, and there are things I like about the current team (Milton, McGrone/Barrett, Ronnie Bell, Haskins) but it remains pretty clear that we aren't getting enough out of the talent we do have and we're certainly nowhere close to competing with the A-level programs.  Perhaps it's too much to expect that again. The landscape of college football has perhaps passed Michigan by.

Resetting seems inevitable but to what I don't know.

 

crg

November 9th, 2020 at 2:25 PM ^

Good thing the people spitting fire on this blog weren't the same ones at Valley Forge - they would have given up and gone home after the first heavy snow.

RGard

November 9th, 2020 at 3:49 PM ^

Agreed.

I suspect most of MGoBlogPosters are someplace inside not venturing out into the snow.

It's 2020.  Fuck it.  I'm fine with watching the rest of the football games and looking forward to next year's team.

And...There's hockey and hoops fun on the horizon.  

crg

November 9th, 2020 at 5:09 PM ^

Yes - and, if you recall basic US history, Washington was getting trashed by just about everyone (other generals, politicians in Continental Congress, newspapers such as they were, tavern gossip, etc.) by the time he camped at Valley Forge.  He had suffered a string of embarrassing defeats, supplies were scarce, injuries & illness rampant, mass desertions and problems recruiting new troops, insubordination in the ranks... sound familiar?

This was when things looked the absolute bleakest for the Colonial Army and there was not much cause to expect improvement in their prospects.  So what happened?  Washington rallied the remnants to stay, improved his logistics, added some capable commanders to help improve discipline and tactics (Lafayette, von Steuben, etc.) and they ground it out.  What they did not do was give up and concede total defeat - and there were calls to do just that.

Do I think UM can rally and win out?  Not likely.  Do I think they can pick themselves up and rally, improving themselves and letting the (few) seniors go out with their heads held high while also giving the younger guys momentum to take into next year?  Absolutely.

The "fans" here that just want to burn everything down and recommending that the current playmakers bolt (draft or transfer) are just showing how shallow their fandom actually is (although I expect the greater portion of those voices are actually just trolls).

crg

November 9th, 2020 at 9:51 PM ^

The French had very little direct impact on the American theater at the time of Valley Forge.  They were very reserved in their involvement at this stage since the American cause looked to be close to lost and they did not want to commit much to it if it was failing.  It was after Valley Forge, when the Continental Army started winning engagements and proving that they could survive against an extended British campaign, that the French involvement expanded.

los barcos

November 9th, 2020 at 2:28 PM ^

The Spath quote seems ominous until you realize Spath is generally full of it.  With that said, I don't have much faith in Warde to make the right decision anyways (re firing Harbaugh or finding a replacement) 

Catchafire

November 9th, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^

This program has a lot of issues at this point and everyone is losing faith in the coaching staff.  I don't think he should be fired but I don't think his contract should be extended either... If Fickel isn't a lock then there is no point in getting rid of Jim.

In year 6 you would expect an identity and sound technique... maybe not the greatest but better than this.  I also expected Jim to hold onto his players and find coaches not jumping ship.  This 2020 year is a comedy of errors and with teams like Rutgers and Maryland on the rise it is easy to feel doubt and worry.

And maybe that is why we stick with Harbaugh because there really isn't a better alternative.  In year 6 I just wish we weren't having this conversation but here we are.

ESNY

November 9th, 2020 at 3:16 PM ^

Our identity is now find something that works and then immediately stop doing it and bang your head repeatedly into a wall trying to something that has already failed.  We do this and choke away at least 2 games per year.  I dont know if its hubris or what, but I cannot believe that we continually fall into the keep doing the same thing and expecting it to *finally* start working, yet it never works.

CompleteLunacy

November 9th, 2020 at 4:06 PM ^

The problem is the program doesn't have the luxury of not doing anything. He's got one year left on his contract, and everyone knows he's on the hot seat right now.  That's bad for recruiting. It's already a bad look that no extension has been accepted - it's been a talking point (which you can use covid as an excuse but it's still a bad look).

 So you either double-down and give him a contract extension (buying him 2-3 more years to change things), or you move on and find the next coach. Either way you are forced to decide.

ndscott50

November 9th, 2020 at 5:19 PM ^

I think we are going to do exactly what we do not have the luxury of doing.  They are not going to fire Harbaugh because the university is not going to spend $10 million in the current financial environment with staff taking pay cuts and getting let go.  Firing Harbaugh would also require a pile of money for the new coach and staff assuming you are not going to do it on the cheap and hire an also ran coach.

They are also not going to sign him to an extension. That’s easy to explain by stating that the university is not going to make large long-term financial commitments with current and future revenue uncertain.  So, unless Harbaugh goes on his own, he will be the coach next year in the last year of his contract. University leadership likely could give a shit about the effect on recruiting at this point.

LabattsBleu

November 10th, 2020 at 1:10 AM ^

well, to be fair Kelly did take them to the National title game in his third year...

If Harbaugh had done that, he'd have a bit of leeway. In fact, some here might have wanted him to get a statue..

One tied for 1st in the B1G East in 6 years (since he ain't doing that this year) and 4, (soon to be 5) years in 3rd place or less, only gets you so far with the fans...

Call me crazy, but losing for the first time to Indiana in 33 years might have rubbed fans the wrong way...

Erik_in_Dayton

November 9th, 2020 at 2:36 PM ^

If Michigan replaces Harbaugh, it will be vital that his successor not use the word "ain't" or name temporary captains or not understand the No. 1 jersey tradition. I don't think that I would ever make it off of my fainting couch. 

imafreak1

November 9th, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^

The only explanation for the presence of QB runs against and Minnesota and subsequent lack of them is that the coaches are trying to keep Milton safe and only put those in the game plan when they deem necessary. I don't think the fact that the QB runs didn't show up against Indiana after they were losing necessarily proves anything. They weren't in the game plan and Gattis, as a new coordinator, did not transition from the game plan during the game.

They thought Minnesota was good enough to prepare for and MSU and Indiana were not.

The QB runs have to be back in the game plan immediately. There is no point to protecting your QB so you don't lose every game while losing every game in the process.

After MSU, Gattis said that the team was going to have to get used to installing a game plan on a normal 4 day week rather than having several weeks like they did against Minnesota. It is possible HE cannot install a complicated (good) game plan in a normal week (except in exceptional circumstances like for OSU) and is forced to go with the vanilla stuff we've seen.

FrozeMangoes

November 9th, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^

The other explanation is that at the first sign of adversity JH reverts back to what he knows. 

This is all speculation so you may be correct about not having time to put in a full game-plan.  But, they ran the plays, they know the plays.  I don't think a couple QB runs are game-plan dependent. 

I think MSU scored and JH knew his defense was in trouble so he turtled to try to win the time of possession battle to help his defense by keeping them off the field.  Instead of realizing the defense was in trouble so opening up everything in an attempt to outscore his bad defense. 

Bus3002

November 9th, 2020 at 5:17 PM ^

You are spot on.  You cannot tell me that the game plan against Minnesota was so much better, then drool all over yourself in weeks 2 and 3.  Someone chose to turtle the gameplan.  Only question is - was it Gattis or Harbaugh putting his thumb on Gattis.  I tend to believe the latter as the evidence exists over multiple Offensive coordinators.

bronxblue

November 9th, 2020 at 2:46 PM ^

I am not going to waste my time listing every example of where Michael Spath was hilariously wrong and had shitty sources, but rest assured he's absolutely talking out of his ass about any potential restrictions placed on the hiring situation.

As for the offsides, it's not great but they all seemed to happen early on in the game; they seemed to get better at it in that second half.  That feels like an adjustment that the coaches made, and while you obviously wished they had done so before the game it's still not that crazy for a team to make adjustments to how they're keying off of snaps and the like during a break.

Milton has been fine at QB but it's also weird seeing this place pump up what has been a rather pedestrian first couple of games because they apparently bought way too heavily into the hype coming into the season.  He's a first-year QB who struggled to complete 50% of his passes in HS, isn't particularly fast, and seems to have issues modulating the arm behind his throws.  There are positive signs but hand-waving away some possibly-persistent issues with  

This got a bunch of replies split about 50/50 between resigned agreement and guys demanding excellence because he missed Bell on a woulda-coulda touchdown and threw a bad interception. The latter folks are wrong and in their feelings because the football team sucks.

is lazy considering the prevailing line has been that Milton would at least run the offense the way it was intended this season, unlike Patterson et al. before him.  The problem is Milton isn't really a running threat; he's a battleship you can smash forward and keep defenses honest but you can tell defenses aren't all that concerned about designed runs from him setting the world on fire.  He's a bigger, slower version of Shea Patterson, and while I think his arm will develop into a weapon Minnesota seemingly screwed with a lot of peoples' perceptions (mine included) of his ceiling as a runner.  Milton has also gotten lucky on a number of throws early on; he probably should have thrown a couple picks against MSU but their LBs and corners weren't quite athletic enough to pull them down.  He's got potential but "he's doing all of this on his own" feels reductive and seemingly forgives his sins behind an under-performing line while blaming the running game for the same reasons.

I guess I've just been around here long enough to see how this story plays out - everyone starts complaining about the current staff, demands Somebody Do Something (tm) in terms of a coaching transition, a bunch of honestly batshit names are thrown around as if the reason Michigan isn't an elite program is because they keep hiring the wrong coach, and then whomever they wind up with the honeymoon period kicks off for a year or two before the knives come out.  I don't love ND but I give them credit with how they let Brian Kelly struggle a bit early on (including a 4-8 season in year 7) and now they're enjoying a consistently pretty-good team that just upset the #1 team at home.  By comparison, this fanbase could be looking down their 4th coach in 15 years, with no real end in sight to the transitions.

Durham Blue

November 9th, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^

Yeah, when Milton got tracked down from behind by MSU's lineman I knew right there that he was no Denard or Devin, or even Shea for that matter.  But it seems like he is "fast enough" to keep on a handful of read options per game and get some decent chunks.  He is a load to bring down and would probably get a few YAC, anyway.  The QB run game should not be abandoned.  If nothing else it gives opposing teams another thing to plan for and worry about, which only helps us.

bronxblue

November 9th, 2020 at 3:11 PM ^

I agree it shouldn't be abandoned but I also think the whole "why are they abandoning this part of the offense" takes presuppose a level of competency and dynamism with Milton on the ground that I haven't seen.  I think you can make hay with him sometimes taking the ball and running, and probably if UM wasn't down in all of these games early on they would have more.  But given the fact there are 2 available QBs on the roster and the fact Milton isn't a particularly dynamic runner and the backfield, in theory, has some good players to run the ball, this drumbeat for him to run feels half-baked.  

switch26

November 9th, 2020 at 7:01 PM ^

Milton also was tracked down by minnesota's lineman on the first drive of the game, then his read option runs the rest of the game went totally fine..

 

The bigger issue with him not running is we aren't using any motion to pull a linebacker out of the play like we did against minnesota..  We also have completely given up on all the screen passes to corum..

 

We did one to him in the 4th quarter finally when we were losing and it went for 22 yards.. it is just baffling to me.

bronxblue

November 9th, 2020 at 3:16 PM ^

He's a load to bring down, and so it's no surprise that he's looked best as a runner when he's rolling out and gotten a head of steam.  And in the pocket I think his ability to shift his weight and move up a bit is underrated; he's got more athleticism than your usual super-tall QB with a rocket arm.  But I'm fairly certain the staff really hoped McCaffrey had stuck around because he's better equipped to run that part of the offense than Milton right now.  

Blue Mind and Heart

November 9th, 2020 at 3:34 PM ^

Good point on pocket. I just haven't seen the "athleticism."  He didn't even run in HS!  Not sure he is the guy if you want a consistent run threat.  We want to believe but...

But considering the down and distance he was often in, his throwing some promise.  Seems like he missed some open reads and force a few but tough to tell on TV.  There are bigger issues than Milton but I am not as optimistic as others.  Needs to show more growth in the next few weeks.

But as a modern QB, closer to John Navarre than Vince Young

CompleteLunacy

November 9th, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^

If this is all true I'm wondering how in the hell Milton was the preferred choice over Dylan. Or if not, how in the hell they let him get away. That is a failure. 

I'm back and forth on whether to get rid of Harbaugh. But Brian Kelly - he got his team to the national championship already before that 4-8 season. So he had some leeway based on tangible accomplishments. What has Harbaugh accomplished, really and truly? I know OSU is in the division and that limits things, but there are other ways to measure accomplishment...how about winning some bowl games? An upset victory on the road? How about at least giving the fans some sort of confidence that there's at least a chance they can upset OSU? Before 2 weeks ago I thought Harbaugh had truly accomplished reverting the MSU rivalry back to status quo...but that game just ruined any of the goodwill he had built up there. He's 3-3 against an MSU program that, frankly, has sucked ever since Harbaugh was hired. We need something to hang our hat on, and right now there's really not much. A couple nice wins here or there - last year vs. ND and that key stretch of wins in 2018 - but that's too few and far between at this point. 

My Name is LEGIONS

November 9th, 2020 at 5:34 PM ^

Not true at all.  Harbaugh knocked MSU program down good, and staved off them taking the state.  Give him credit there, holy shit.  You don't remember how good d'Antonio teams were...Harbaugh shut their recruiting down.  Be fair here.   Major accomplishment.     Sure the last game sucked and the coaches blew it. But be fair. 

CompleteLunacy

November 9th, 2020 at 7:39 PM ^

Sure enough, point well taken. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic at the state of things right now. But it just feels like he hasn't done much, ya know? Like...before this year began I'd point to the fact that Michigan has gotten to 10 wins twice under Harbaugh, and so far the worst he's done is 8-4, and despite the occasional blowout he's brought the program on par with everyone except OSU...And I would use that to justify keeping him despite growing drumbeats of people around saying "he'll never get us over the hump, why the hell do we pay him so much if he can't even compete for the division" etc etc. It also felt like I was intellectually convincing myself it was alright even if my irrational inner fan felt otherwise.

I always thought his record against MSU was a mirage because Harbaugh had very clearly established dominance and if not for a once-in-a-lifetime play they'd be 4-1 against MSU. Even that 1 other loss had some excuses...just a weird game where the team turned it over 5 times and a monsoon descended upon Michigan stadium in the 3rd quarter. But the loss two weeks ago might have altered the future of that rivalry and undone whatever dominance he had established previously. And whatever you could say about it before, the fact remains he is 3-3 against them.  And now Mel Tucker has a track record, which he'll use to his advantage. They could literally lose all their remaining games - maybe even get blown out - and their fanbase will be happy. It's an inexcusable loss that can only be rectified by beating OSU, otherwise the hot seat will stay hot. 

And my general optimism flipped to pessimism on a dime not just because the last 2 weeks were losses - but because of how bad they looked as a team. They didn't just lose both weeks, they got thoroughly outplayed, outcoached, outefforted, outeverythinged. Shoot, I was actually expecting IU to win that game before it started, but what I didn't expect was for Michigan to look like they didn't belong on the same field. Against IU. 

So I dunno. I don't think you fire him immediately or anything, but you have to seriously consider it if they continue to trot out performances like they have the last 2 weeks. Maybe an unexpected win against Wisconsin will help calm me down a bit and walk back from the ledge. But I doubt it at this point.