Exit Ricky Doyle
[Eric Upchurch]
Ricky Doyle is out:
ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- University of Michigan men's basketball head coach John Beileinannounced today (Tuesday, March 29) sophomore forward Ricky Doyle requested and was granted his release from the University and plans to transfer for his final two seasons of eligibility.
"Ricky is a tremendous young man with very high character and plenty of potential to develop into being a fine college player," said Beilein. "We have enjoyed coaching him over the past two years and wish him nothing but the best."
After a promising freshman year Doyle's game and minutes evaporated as a sophomore. With Mark Donnal ahead of him on the depth chart and Mo Wagner coming on late plus two post recruits incoming, the writing was on the wall. Michigan is no longer over their scholarship limit for next year.
And Ohio St has lost another member of its freshman class. "It's happening" everywhere.
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I really hope he gets the sleep apnea and the burden that comes along with it figured out. When Ricky was playing at his best (and I honestly think he was never physically able to here at Michigan), he was fun to watch.
Good luck to the young man. Once life throws this kid a break, he can become a hell of a big man.
sleep apnea "figured out", the treatment is simply a giant band aid that keeps you from dying in the middle of the night. You are miserable 100% of the time.
Could he just take trucker pills for the rest of his life and just never sleep again?
Worked for those kids in A Nightmare on Elm Street, right?
I've been using CPAP to treat sleep apnea for nearly 20 years and have no problems, health or otherwise,feel much better than when untreated.
Some times one go through a surgical procedure to help it. A friends of ours did. He is doing better now.
That's not even close to accurate.
I felt a LOT better immediately upon starting to use a CPAP. I wouldn't be without it for the way it makes me feel all day. I know it's main purpose is to keep me alive, but the side effects from getting a good night's sleep is wonderful. Good Luck to him.
he never really had a chance to make anything good out of this year. I will always wonder what cold have been. I wish him the best of luck at his new school.
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Moving day in the college basketball world, apparently. Good luck to Doyle. With Davis coming in and Donnal and Wagner moving ahead of him on the depth chart, minutes at the 5 looked less and less for Doyle.
Too bad, seemed like a good kid.
good luck in your future endeavors!
he really could have benefitted from a redshirt year. Instead, he was pressed into action last season and expectations were raised. I wish him well. He needs lots of repetition to get the finer points of the game to come more naturally to him.
there are way too many impatient morons who give up on players, especially bigs, way too quickly. but i guess that is the social media age.
doyle will become a quality player before he is done. book it.
i remember i guy here, eric riley, who was a junior when the fab 5 arrived. he started as a soph and had many of the problems doyle had, fumbled the ball a lot, had trouble finishing around the rim, etc.
however, he was the first guy off the bench with the fab 5, improved his post-up game immensley and ended up playing in the nba for several years. i am not predicting nba for doyle, but i expect huge improvement for him.
I saw him in the West Quad cafeteria occasionally. My roommate was 6'6". Riley walked by us and my roommate said, "now that guy is tall."
There should have been no reason to play Ricky last year, but Beilfeldt and Donnal did not develop as quickly as hoped and with the surprise attrition Michigan was stuck grasping at straws.
Doyle's decision should not have any affect on Chatman. It does open up time at the 5 for Wilson, but his skillset overlaps a lot with Donnal and Wagner.
Why don't you name a few more players that you don't like.
That being said, I think Chatman found a useful role on this team late in the season. I was a bit disappointed he didn't get more minutes, but it's easy to see him playing more next season.
I think players who are falling on the depth chart are the greatest flight risks. Wilson showed flashes early. The potential is there, but he's certainly fallen behind Wagner. Dawkins lost a lot of minutes and never got them back. He's another guy with a lot of potential that I'd like to stay, but won't be shocked if he doesn't.
I don't want anyone to leave the team - Spike, Doyle, etc. I like these guys despite the struggles the past two seasons and would like to see them finish their careers at Michigan. There are a lot of college players that have a certain set of skills and may take more time to develop.
However, I remain extremely skeptical that Chatman and Wilson will find meaningful roles on this team. For the second straight year there are fans clinging to a couple of 5-minute moments from Chatman as reason for hope. I'd like to believe......but I saw this same story the first time around with WIllie Mitchell. Chatman would fill a nice role as a true PF against bigger teams, but his game is still limited in that he doesn't do any one thing particularly well. (Beilein would say he's a great passer, but we don't run offense through the PF as a passer.)
Wilson I think is going to have a much harder time finding a role because I'm not sure he even knows what he's good at. He plays like he thinks he's a small forward, his skill set is more of a zone defense center, and Michigan wants him to be a stretch 4.
I hope both guys stay because we could use some actual PF sized players so Irvin doesn't have to play out of position. But I struggle to see either guy deserving enough minutes to displace Irvin, Robinson, or Dawkins.
Here's the likely rotation for meaningful minutes:
- Irvin
- Robinson
- Walton
- Rahk
- Wagner
- Donnal
- Simpson
- Dawkins
Anyone not on that list will get the occassional chance to play, but there won't be a lot of minutes to go around.
If you made that list 1 year ago how would it have looked? Even 6 months ago it would have been something like...
1.Caris
2. Walton
3. Irvin
4. Doyle
5. Dawkins
6. Albrecht
7. Robinson
8. Donnal or Wilson, depending on your preference
2 guys injured, 1 transfer, and the hopes for Dawkins and Wilson have been significantly diminshed, while Rahkman, Donnal and Wagner have seen their stock skyrocket.
If ever there was a year that has tought us to keep an open mind to uncertainty and be patient with player development...
Nice
Mitchell transferred but he was a pretty good ball-player who had a 10 year pro career. If Chatman sticks at Michigan and plays up to the level, Michigan would be very pleased.
The reason people are optimistic about Chatman is his recruiting profile, age, and physical potential. For a guy that size, he has the foundation of a good skillset and exceptional versatility. The other thing you have to consider is how differently he would be perceived if he had red-shirted, instead of being pressed into immediate duty from all the attrition. Need to keep in mind he came from a tiny school in Oregon. He's also nearly 2 years younger than MAAR. It was always going to take time.
As for Wilson - I mostly agree with you. With Donnal and Wagner both being small-ball centers and Davis and Teske coming up, there's not much room for Wilson unless he makes a leap. That said - Donnal, Beilfeldt and other bigs we've recruited HAVE made just that sort of leap in their junior year. Experience teaches us we should be patient. Wilson's combination of shooting range and shot-blocking are still appealing, even if he projects (for now) as just our 3rd Center. I hope for our sake he does not transfer.
Eric Riley wasn't an elite player, but the year before the Fab Five arrived, he put up 10.6 points, 8.6 rebounds and 2.8 blocks per game. If we had a guy like that this season, we'd have been Big Ten title contenders.
I don't know if Doyle has that kind of upside. He's a few inches shorter and less athletic. His ceiling is probably more along the lines of Jordan Morgan.
But if you are a basketball player who ends up making millions beyond your NBA rookie contract (or even GETS an NBA rookie contract) I think you qualify as an elite player.
Riley was an old-school traditional center and his college production wasn't 'elite' but he was an elite basketball player and major contributor to the success Michigan had with the Fab 5 (on and off the court). Before he was replaced by a younger HALL OF FAME basketball player, he was all conference honorable mention as a sophomore.
Even then he played a critical role off the bench:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/29/sports/college-basketball-southeast-r…
It's very reasonable to think that had Webber and Howard not arrived simultaneously, Riley would have been an all-conference player.
We are in agreement here. You are fixated too much on one word and not everything else I wrote.
I just thought it was interesting that college production (which for Riley was not super impressive) weighs so heavily in perceptions.
Trey Burke was an elite college performer, but is unlikely to have as impressive of an NBA career as Riley had (I could be wrong, but things are not tracking very well for Trey). Who is the elite player between the two? How much of their college production was context and how much was ability?
I'm focusing on college here, not NBA potential. Trey was the national player of the year, so that should answer your question.
But anyway, Riley was an NBA journeyman, playing for five teams in five seasons, during which he averaged three points per game. He was a prime example of how being tall and fairly agile is enough to land you a roster spot, if not playing time, in the NBA.
Burke hasn't been a superstar in Utah, but he's done far better than that.
Burke is an example of how being highly skilled and playing in a productive college offense land you a roster spot. What difference does it make? Agility and height matter.
Burke's NBA career does not look like it will last 5 years. He will certainly get another shot somewhere but he seems destined for playing abroad shortly after his rookie contract runs out.
The Tjarks article Brian linked to lays some of this out, but it's pretty clear that Beilein is a guy whose system does not translate to the pros. It's a bit like Chip Kelly QBs. Until he starts getting elite talent in there on a regular basis, the NBA production won't be there to match what is being produced at the college level.
Burke, obviously, produced at an elite level in college but it's not at all clear that he is objectively a better basketball player than Eric Riley. He could still get there, but his physical limitations do not look like they will be overcome at the NBA level. Ditto for Stauskas. Context matters. If Burke and Stauskas were replaced prior to their sophomore seasons by the arrival of a Chris Paul and James Harden type talents, they don't play much, don't ever get drafted in the lottery, and don't ever get handed the opportunity to win NBA starting jobs. Context matters.
Burke, obviously, produced at an elite level in college but it's not at all clear that he is objectively a better basketball player than Eric Riley.Dude, come on.
Unless you don't think the NBA is an objective measure of ability.
I don't understand what you could be possibly arguing here.
Riley was a 12th man on a few different teams and averaged 3.1 ppg and 2.6 rpg in his NBA career.
Burke is currently averaging 12.1 ppg, 4.2 apg and 2.5 rpg in his NBA career. He's already played more NBA games and minutes in three years than Riley did in five.
Good for Eric for making the league (an accomplishment in itself), but better than Burke . . . I have no idea where you're getting that from.
March 29th, 2016 at 10:52 PM ^
Riley played in the NBA from age 23 till he was 28. He started 41 games. He wasn't a great player, but the NBA valued what he did.
Will Trey be in the NBA when he's 28? I really doubt it. Trey is 23 now. He was handed a starting job on a lottery team and has lost it to 3 different guys the last 2 years - a rookie 19 year old from australian, a rookie 2nd round pick from brazil, and now Shelvin Mack (who has had an Eric Rileyesque journeyman backup career to date).
Where is Trey if he isn't handed the keys to Beilein's offense and surrounded by NBA talent? What if he goes to Penn State instead, or if he sits behind a younger player at Michigan. Does he go in the lottery? Does he get handed a starting job? No and no. He's a second round pick at best. He works his way up (probably in the NBDL) and TRIES to carve out a role for himself, but given his size he probably never gets more than a cup of tea from the NBA.
Trey can easily make me eat crow and turns things around. But he's 23 and a 5'11 PG who shoots 38% from the floor. It's highly unlikely he does anything more with his career. Believe me, I wish it wasn't the case because he was so damn fun to watch at Michigan, but it is. Trey Burke isn't an NBA caliber player. The Jazz have figured that out. He got his chance and now it's all but over. Trey is the NBA's Dennis Dixon.
So my point is - circumstance has a great influence on production and perception.
He was a legit 6'11 or 7".
Agree that having an NBA career = #WINNING
toward the end of the year, catching the ball better (and scoring) on rolls to the hoop.
I liked him. Darn.
But maybe it's better for him w/ more PT elsewhere.
Things seem to work themselves out
Things do always work themselves out. That is one reason I hate speculation threads where commenters are basically "voting" their least-favorite players "off the island." The speculation is classless, meaningless and hurtful to the players, their friends and families who may be reading the blog.
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