OT: Belichick Out In New England At End Of Season?
According to NBC Sports Boston’s Tom E. Curran, the decision about Belichick’s future has already been made by team owner Robert Kraft.
Speaking during a Monday interview on the Arbella Early Edition program, Curran explained the timeline and details of what he’d heard. Asked if there was a chance Belichick could keep his job with the Patriots beyond the current season, he spelled it out.
“When they came out of [the 10-6 loss to the Colts on Nov. 12 in] Germany, conversations I had that week made it very clear that a decision was made,” said Curran. “They were going to play out the string, and at the end of the year, there would be a parting of the ways for a variety of reasons.”
December 12th, 2023 at 7:21 PM ^
It's so weird because he had success for so long. It's like, what changed?
December 12th, 2023 at 7:23 PM ^
😆
his record before and after Brady has always been mediocre. This comment always seems to hurt some feelings, but it’s just the facts.
249-75 WTB
82-98 WOTB
December 12th, 2023 at 7:29 PM ^
I just thought of him as the coach of Tom Brady's team. Nothing overly special in his own right. I wonder if Wayne Fontes would have won a Super Bowl with Brady or with Brady and Sanders. Sanders wasn't enough so perhaps Brady without Sanders wouldn't have been enough either.
December 12th, 2023 at 7:33 PM ^
Or with Montana or Moon.
December 12th, 2023 at 7:51 PM ^
Watch Bye Bye Barry on Amazon Prime They tipped off that Montana wanted to come here and play with Barry but UofMs own Chuck Schmidt nixed it, saying Montana too old. So Montana went to KC instead...
December 12th, 2023 at 7:36 PM ^
Even if the W/L numbers reflect poorly without Brady, Belichick still helped sustain that dynasty for a looonnnggg time. He’s pretty well respected around the league and even though his coaching tree has some broken branches on it, he had a good run and it’s probably time to hang it up.
December 12th, 2023 at 7:46 PM ^
As a resident, but not home-grown, Bostonian I find there are two camps of Patriots fans. Realists and Belichick apologists. The realists understand that it was Brady’s team and specifically his offense. The rest are still convinced that Mack Jones is the real deal. It’s been fun to watch the decline and the ensuing surrender cobras.
December 12th, 2023 at 9:52 PM ^
The Brady-Belichick discussion has probably occurred many times on this board, but I believe most recently on Nov. 1 when Josh McDaniels was fired.
I started from the position of Belichick is an average coach but eventually conceded that he is an above average coach, mostly swayed by the argument that there are precious few examples of "good coaches" who didn't have good QBs or even HOF QBs. So Belichick can get some credit, just not all the credit, or even the bulk of it.
However, I did point out that Belichick actually held Brady back his whole career:
But in reality, he held Brady back, refusing to give him weapons on offense, with the exception of 2007 when he got to play with Randy Moss and had 50 TDs. The only other two seasons where he even reached 40 TDs were in Tampa Bay.
December 13th, 2023 at 12:11 AM ^
He reminds me of modern day Iowa.
Great defensive mind, who surrounded himself with weak offensive people who would concede to his strengths. But, he lucked into an all-time great QB and road it to greatness.
Also, under discussed is Brady's role in always taking less money than he deserved in NE. It allowed the team to devote more resources to other positions than teams in other similar situations.
December 13th, 2023 at 8:20 AM ^
I agree...I think he's s great coach in some ways. I think when you look at how he was the one that really truly changed the offensive approach by using 12 personnel and basically ignoring WRs for a decade. He is probably most responsible for the switch to Devin Bush types and away from Mike Morris types. He exploited mismatches in more ways and more consistently than anyone in his era except Andy Reid. Even the concept of absolutely suffocating the number 1 thing offenses wanted to do, and forcing them to win with second and third options. I think his preparation and expectations of his players was second to none.
HOWEVER...it seems as though his issue has been an unwillingness to take criticism or feedback. Their WR selections, via draft or free agency, have been probably the worst in the league over the last 25 years. And with all things, the NFL catches up and you have to adapt.
What he should've done was bring in a Shanahan acolyte to modernize the offense. And all great coaches have a great coaching tree...and his is lacking, because he doesn't seem to allow his guys to lead on their own.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:00 PM ^
I concur with this position.
82-98 WOTB is with teams that had little talent. It is not like he was stacked with all-stars during that time. Obviously, a great deal of Belichick's success is tied to Brady but look at Pat Riley and Phil Jackson of even the great hall-of-famer Jim Leland without their superstars.
I am not an expert on salary cap issues, but didn't Tom Brady demonstrate above and beyond cooperation and flexibility to keep/acquire supporting talent. That is also on Tom Brady.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:58 PM ^
When he got the Patriots he had one of the better QBs in the league who went to a Super Bowl. Obviously having superstar talent is more important, but people act like he took over an expansion level team when he got to the Patriots.
I think his doom has just been his inflexibility on offense and his scouting for offense. Brady covered those problems. I also think the "Patriots Way" is hard to keep pulling off when leaders like Brady and McCourtney move on. It seems like people don't actually like playing for the Patriots, they just liked the winning and without the winning, it doesn't seem fun.
December 12th, 2023 at 9:08 PM ^
Inflexibility? The Pats offense evolved pretty significantly over the years, from a run-first grinding team to a wide-open 3-receiver passing juggernaut that broke most of the significant records in existence to a multiple offense featuring a dominant TE when the position seemed to be going out of fashion.
The Patriots offense changed pretty constantly throughout Belichick's tenure, was always well-coached, and was extremely adaptable to the personnel and weaknesses of opposing defenses.
It all pivoted around Tom Brady, but when you have a QB like that, why wouldn't it?
December 13th, 2023 at 8:56 AM ^
His offenses seemed to take change of pace concepts and he built the entire offense out of it...multiple times. The screen game, tight ends and slots with a good run game and screen passes made that offense go.
He basically eliminated the opponent advantage of having excellent corners or big run stopping linebackers.
There's starting to be some revisionist history about how brilliant and effective he was and I'm not even a fan of his but to question his greatness in the longest running dynasty in the sports history because of the tail end of his career is comical. It's like judging Jordan's career on his time with the Wizards.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:42 AM ^
When he got the Patriots he had one of the better QBs in the league who went to a Super Bowl. Obviously having superstar talent is more important, but people act like he took over an expansion level team when he got to the Patriots.
Yeah, he took over for Pete Carroll, who had been fired after going 10-6, 9-7, 8-8 with two playoff appearances in three seasons. Trending down, sure, but hardly a tire fire (doesn't seem like there are many NFL teams that fire coaches that never had a losing season in their time there)...
December 12th, 2023 at 9:36 PM ^
He's definitely fortunate Brady didn't decide to play the other pro sport that drafted him:
Of course, Michigan is fortunate too.
December 12th, 2023 at 9:43 PM ^
Drew Henson must be so pissed at this video.
December 13th, 2023 at 8:15 AM ^
I feel like every coach would have a worse record without the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL than with.
December 13th, 2023 at 9:50 AM ^
He's a defensive coach. Brady was essentially the entire offense through his tenure. But Brady wins less championships if he doesn't have a great defense year in and year out, especially in the early years when the defense most definitely won the titles.
The Pats are still a relatively decent defensive team. It's the offense now (without Brady) that is anemic.
Brady and Bill made the perfect combination for a dynasty. Essentially having one of the best offensive minds and defensive minds of all time on the same team.
That and Bill's scouting and culture building have always been top notch. Troubled players regularly went to the Patriots and turned their careers around.
December 13th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^
Hmmm 🤔 Headscratcher… /s TB12
December 12th, 2023 at 7:23 PM ^
I can't help but hope Harbaugh brings him on as the head of opponent research.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:36 PM ^
We better hope Kraft doesn't offer Harbaugh a deal he can't refuse.
December 12th, 2023 at 9:17 PM ^
nah, they'd go with Vrabel.
December 12th, 2023 at 10:44 PM ^
I am going to predict he ends up at Las Vegas. If this actually happens, I will be shocked that my “insider” was correct.
December 12th, 2023 at 11:22 PM ^
But I thought contract talks were going great?
December 12th, 2023 at 7:31 PM ^
He was a great defensive coordinator for the Giants back in the day. That's the Belichick I know.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:04 PM ^
His Giant's defense played three different defensive formations in three weeks in the play-offs. Impressive. You don't pull that off without tremendous educational and organizational skills (and maybe all-Pro talent.)
December 12th, 2023 at 8:08 PM ^
What he did in the ‘90 playoffs against the Bears (great running team), Niners (how many great players on that offense) and then the Bills (who hung 51 on the Raiders in AFC Championship) in succession was truly masterful. Literally changed his entire defensive philosophy 3 consecutive games and won them all
December 12th, 2023 at 9:23 PM ^
With the Big Tuna. Two Super Bowl rings.
December 12th, 2023 at 7:33 PM ^
The post-Brady years have not been kind to Belichick's legacy, to say the least.
December 12th, 2023 at 7:33 PM ^
Just going to drop these numbers here for no particular reason
Career playoff wins without Tom Brady: 1 in 10 seasons (with the Browns, zero non-Brady playoff wins in NE)
Career playoff wins with Tom Brady (not counting 2008 ACL season or non-starter rookie season): 30 in 19 seasons
Brady has as many Super Bowl rings without Belichick as Belichick has playoff wins without Brady
December 12th, 2023 at 7:41 PM ^
Not a huge surprise; he never won anything without Brady
December 12th, 2023 at 7:42 PM ^
Any chance he comes here as a grad assistant?
December 12th, 2023 at 7:47 PM ^
I actually have heard this is Ryan Days dream job. Maybe they will, at minimum, get hit with some of those rumors.
Edit to add: He could consult Urban lol
December 12th, 2023 at 7:55 PM ^
New GM, Tohmm Brady.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:00 PM ^
He's one of the greatest defensive minds the game has seen. His ability to take away what you love to do offensively is second to none. Pair that with the most cerebral, accurate passer to ever play the game and you get a dynasty.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:11 PM ^
Interesting comment. I am further mystified by the lack of skill demonstrated by Matt Patricia in his last Super Bowl (Philidelphia) where the Patriots failed to force a punt. How could Belichick allow that?
December 12th, 2023 at 8:24 PM ^
You win some and you lose some in this game. The greatest to ever do it had thier failures. It humbles you. He also held "The Greatest Show on Turf" Rams to 17. Sean McVay's Rams only managed 3 pts in SB LVIII. Peyton Manning had his struggles against him as well. All of his d coordinators were fools gold. Bill was the mastermind.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:49 AM ^
Because Patricia was a hack. Watching that SB, you knew the Lions (who rumors had linked Patricia to throughout the playoffs) were screwed. Forcing even one punt would have won the Patriots that game, and they couldn't do it. The Patriots D got immediately better after Patricia left; that tells you everything you need to know...
December 12th, 2023 at 8:08 PM ^
Harbaugh and McCarthy to New England.
December 13th, 2023 at 10:04 AM ^
< nvm >
December 13th, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
Honestly wouldn’t be a bad move IMO
December 12th, 2023 at 8:10 PM ^
In sports, people tend to overstay their welcomes. Or--to look at it another way--the media itself needs to move on. It doesn't take anything from Belichek's achievement that he's not as wildly successful now as he once was. Sometimes you get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle; Brady was part of that success story, and Belichek steered the ship. I guess we all need something to talk about, but that's okay. Interesting guy, interesting story.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:10 PM ^
I can see it now. Moore gets a HC job. Campbell gets elevated ot OC. TB12 is hired to be the QB coach and...wait for it....Belichick gets hired to be an Offensive analyst.
December 12th, 2023 at 9:47 PM ^
Belichick's a defensive guy.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:26 PM ^
Maybe this is real, maybe it isn't.
Bill Belichick is an all-time great coach. Yes, it helps to have Brady. But Brady was helped by having Belichick. No coach and no QB is an island, even the best of them; Walsh had Montana, and vice versa.
If they are parting ways, it's not because Belichick is suddenly a bum. He is 71 years old; that's up there. He is a maniacal worker and a brilliant football mind, but if he has lost a touch off of his fastball, or if he has lost a bit of the energy he used to pour into his work, that might be the answer. The franchise needs a total rebuild, so the question isn't just if Belichick is the right guy for next year, but the right guy for the next five.
December 13th, 2023 at 1:33 AM ^
None of this is true.
As a Head Coach Belichick has a losing record without Brady starting. Close to 40% iirc. He has an amazing record with Brady. Brady succeeded w/o Belichick and Belichick was a disaster as a HC without Brady, before and after Brady arrived.
Walsh built a system and culture. He was also a brilliant offensive innovator who has been widely copied ever since. When he retired, that system and culture was handed over to Seifert. Siefert, unlike 3rd base, had worked under Walsh every year since Walsh was at Stanford. It was Walsh’s system and Siefert used it to keep winning. He also kept winning with Steve Young. So Walsh’s brilliance lasted through succeeding coaches and QBs. The niners finally went down hill when Mariuchi took over. Belichick did nothing even close to everything Walsh did aa a Head Coach. At most he was a disciplinarian. And that alone achieves nothing. He was a great DC at one point.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:31 PM ^
He's joining MSU to coach their defense with Urban Meyer as offensive coordinator.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:42 PM ^
This is nothing more than a Harbaugh to the Patriots, Belicheck to the Wolverines rumor.
December 12th, 2023 at 8:45 PM ^
So, what about the rumors of Belichick going to East Lansing as head coach?