Mgolawyers how long until we see an injunction?
Apologies in advance if this isn't worth it's own thread
@Mgolawyers how long can we expect to wait before hearing news about an injunction? I'm hoping it's only minutes, as opposed to hours.
Just will feel better once we officially know that Harbaugh can be on the sidelines tomorrow. The Big Ten is a fucking a joke, waiting until the team's plane literally takes off to announce this is bush league.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
Good question!
November 10th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
Better Q: How can M go about leaving this dogshit conference?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
Hopefully they can find a provision that points to this being a material breach that they can use to get out of the contract.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:20 PM ^
They tried to change it to a penalty "against the institution" by penalizing its head football coach.
Michigan should now announce that it has self-imposed a three-game demotion of Jim Harbaugh and that Warde Manuel has been named Head Football Coach in the interim.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:32 PM ^
I love this idea and Im more than half-serious asking if it could be a viable option? Like baseball teams do when they sign a celebrity for a one day contract for some promotional gig.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:52 PM ^
Would be fucking brilliant. Absolutely fucking brilliant. You are a genius.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
Hopefully they can find a provision that points to this being a material breach that they can use to get out of the contract.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
Probably a few hours, but hard to say with certainty.
Of course, news of Michigan filing for the TRO will likely leak sooner than that. [edit: Michigan already announced they will seek the TRO]
This laughably absurd attempt at the Big Ten to reframe a Harbaugh suspension as a institutional, instead of individual, penalty gives me confidence we will get the TRO (and the PI):
"We impose this disciplinary action even though the Conference has not yet received any information indicating that Head Football Coach Harbaugh was aware of the impermissible nature of the sign-stealing scheme. This is not a sanction of Coach Harbaugh. It is a sanction against the University that, under the extraordinary circumstances presented by this offensive conduct, best fits the violation because: (1) it preserves the ability of the University’s football student-athletes to continue competing; and (2) it recognizes that the Head Coach embodies the University for purposes of its football program"
November 10th, 2023 at 4:20 PM ^
Pettiti's comment that this was the "worst scandal in the history of the Big 10" was almost funny until this. No way we can stay in the conference while this coward leads it.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:44 PM ^
Coward? He's a god damned fucking imbecile!
November 10th, 2023 at 4:50 PM ^
Yeah, it's an act of idiocy and pettiness, not of cowardice.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:50 PM ^
[not the dreaded double post ugh]
November 10th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
I take the view that the Big Ten screwed the pooch here in at least two ways:
(1) they waited until Jim boarded the plane
(2) they failed to wait until after 4:30pm
That does two things in my view. First, it makes the irreparable harm and balance of equities seem even more ridiculous. Now you don't just have an interference with the employment agreement; you have interference with that AND arguable animus behind it. By waiting, they (arguably) intentionally, certainly knowingly, let the entire team sit on pins and needles and embark on travel with their head coach who now can't go to the stadium tomorrow.
Second, it gives Michigan time to get a TRO before the close of business. No doubt Williams and Connolly had all their papers drafted before this suspension was handed down. All they have to do now is check a few boxed, put the penalty in a paragraph, and hit send.
Also, though I'm not versed on B1G rules, I thought they could only max suspend him for 2 games? 3 games would virtually hand Michigan the "likelihood of success on the merits" prong of a TRO if its true the B1G can only suspend for two games.
And if *that* is true, then I might start wondering if Pettiti is intentionally throwing this to the courts because he both wants (1) to be seen as responding, and (2) to lose. Either way, he has metaphorically "fumbled the bag" here.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:34 PM ^
I was also skeptical about our odds of success on the "likelihood of the success on the merits prong" until I read our response to the Big Ten's notice. We identified several procedural and substantive errors in the Big Ten's case, and their official notice has no good answer for those errors. *If* Petitti didn't go through the Joint Committee to get approval, then the "likelihood of success on the merits" prong is a slam dunk. But it would surprise me if he skipped that step.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:40 PM ^
He alleges he got the approval of the joint committee in the big 10’s official 10 page response.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:47 PM ^
Got it, and not surprised. It would have been a bizarre unforced error if he hadn't done that.
Our case is still strong. I expect Petitti's admission that they have no evidence implicating Harbaugh to be a central feature of our argument. The Big Ten's rules have no vicarious liability provision like the NCAA's. If they don't have evidence Harbaugh knew, they can't suspend him, unless the judge buys their ridiculous argument that this an institutional punishment.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:02 PM ^
I just started reading the decision. I think it's page two where they say "they don't even deny it, they just offer procedural and technical arguments"--and I think it's the stupidest thing I've ever had the displeasure of reading. The B1G is treating this like overly aggressive prosecutors, and like Harbaugh/Michigan are criminals. That's insane, when they themselves admit the evidence doesn't show Michigan/Harbaugh knew. This is an insanely aggressive tack to take and I do not think it plays well in a *contract* case. You *agreed* to those procedures. By not following them, you are *breaching the contract.* I'm beginning to think they'll be laughed out of court. Judges tend not to like parties who quickly exhaust their credibility.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:23 PM ^
Exactly. Our request was essentially due process. Responding to that with what boils down to "bUt tHeY dIDn'T dENy iT" is just embarrassing. This isn't about what Stalions did, it's about whether you can suspend Harbaugh at this point in time before the investigation is complete. Petitti is in way over his head.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:42 PM ^
Yep. And by the way, the quick response is that "We're bound by NCAA rules not to discuss the substance of the allegations. We are not permitted to admit or deny them. Only to cooperate fully with the investigation."
November 10th, 2023 at 5:23 PM ^
Exactly. Our request was essentially due process. Responding to that with what boils down to "bUt tHeY dIDn'T dENy iT" is just embarrassing. This isn't about what Stalions did, it's about whether you can suspend Harbaugh at this point in time before the investigation is complete. Petitti is in way over his head.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:52 PM ^
B1G not only has no good answers, but it just doubles down on the reasoning offered earlier this week and tries a bunch of hand-waving but no legal analysis to explain away the cited portions of NCAA & B1G's own regs that should have precluded this asinine step from being taken... as someone on Twitter indicated, Petitti is basically like a glorified HOA president who just decided to push forward anyway and has no idea how much shit he just brought down on his own head and that of his association/conference. absolute buffoonery
November 10th, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^
They did meet with the committee and they approved this.
That means -- at the very least -- a majority of the Big 10 voted for this.
They can impose 3-games. We can leave the conference.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:09 PM ^
Couple of days ago somebody dug up some old info on that committee, it was 4 members (unbelievably 2 from PSU). If that is still the composition of that committee 1) then it wasn't necessary for majority of B1G schools to vote for this. 2) given that the representatives are from schools that would directly benefit from having Michigan suspended, that created a conflict of interest for them and they should recuse themselves.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^
Pettiti groveled at the feet of the other league members and got them to agree to a 3-game suspension. Shocking, I know.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:37 PM ^
I agree with your last point.
It almost like it seems like he is throwing the case.
(throwing his hands up) "Hey I tried."
November 10th, 2023 at 4:37 PM ^
I agree with your last point.
It almost like it seems like he is throwing the case.
(throwing his hands up) "Hey I tried."
November 10th, 2023 at 4:46 PM ^
I’m no lawyer. But that is what I got out of this. Putting in the text of the suspension that you have no evidence, seems like a pretty big thing to admit.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
Damn -
Just like Attorney Mars lifted the MGoLawyers Diary post for JH's response letter, it seems the Big Ten lifted my "JH is an Institution" concept (joke) as justification in making their decision!!
P.S. I'm totally joking about the B1G lift of my post... but strangely, the thought that they could take this tact did cross my mind yesterday as I was developing the bit for the blog!
November 10th, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
Not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night .. The injunction will come within a couple hours
November 10th, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
The whole thing is a sham, how pathetic to not only do this in the first place but to do it now, on Friday?
I'd like to hear what mgolawyers say as well.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:21 PM ^
And Friday afternoon, no less. After the team has left for State College.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
While we were still in the fucking air. Absolutely shameless. Fuck the rest of the conference; fuck petiti
November 10th, 2023 at 8:46 PM ^
At 4PM on a holiday with the coach on an airplane, announcing over Twitter
November 10th, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
Not long. By this evening I’d assume. Not a lawyer, but my brother in law served quite a bit of time and fancies himself as one. He’s usually spot on.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
It might take longer than expected. Have to get the judge to stop laughing first.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:13 PM ^
Well played, Maizinator. +1
November 10th, 2023 at 4:13 PM ^
Can UofM leave the B1G by morning? JH can then roam free on the sideline without violating The Puppet's "decision."
November 10th, 2023 at 4:13 PM ^
I would expect it by midnight.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:13 PM ^
Honestly I don't even want the injunction, they'll just retaliate against us and vacate wins/ban us from the title game. That "additional or enhanced penalty" was a threat. Just make an announcement we will be leaving the Big ten at the end of the season.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:16 PM ^
Big Ten can't do that.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:18 PM ^
Can the B1G make a team vacate wins?
I apologize if most people have this knowledge
November 10th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
On on3 they said he has the power to vacate big ten wins. I prefer to just leak everybody's dirt and leave the Big ten after the season. We can and will win the next 3 with or without Harbaugh. Petitties will hand Harbaugh the Big ten trophy
November 10th, 2023 at 4:35 PM ^
So if Jim coaches tomorrow under the TRO, is the conference going to vacate the wins later no matter what?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:54 PM ^
They can't just leave the B10 right now -- not without huge financial cost. They can announce that they intend to, tho.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^
Nah, fuck that shit
Go after these motherfuckers
And then after the dust has settled, sue the conference and the other league members
When Michigan wins the Big Ten title game, spike the trophy and tell Petitti to fuck off
November 10th, 2023 at 4:13 PM ^
I'm assuming the lawyers had to know what they were asking for an injunction against first and the notice came out a few minutes ago. I'm guessing in a couple hours time.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
....and at 4pm eastern WTLF...
With the caliber of our attorney - I have to think the injunction was written in advance and in the hands of at least a dozen judges ready to execute. Though, it is technically a holiday - are courts open on Veterans Day?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:57 PM ^
Courts are closed but there is generally a duty judge for emergencies.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
it has GOT to be in the chamber already, was just waiting for details to fill in the blanks.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:15 PM ^
I caution people against assuming this is a slam dunk. Nothing is in litigation. A key factor is likelihood of success on the merits, and unless you have read the Big Ten bylaws, none of us know what that is. That Petitti is a power-drunk scumbag, or that this is outrageous, really don’t matter if he followed conference-approved procedures. Michigan’s lawyers seem to think he didn’t but I have no idea if a judge will agree.