Timing of "Hang 100 on em" and 4th and 1
Sorry if this is snowflakey, but I stay away from mgoblog on weekends since I record games and don't want any spoilers. I saw the "Ryan Day's brother became a manager of a PI firm" thread, and have some thoughts, but the thread is probably dead at this point. So I'm creating a new topic about the timing of a couple key things, since I don't see it mentioned anywhere else.
So I've been keeping up on all this, and when I read about a private investigation firm giving the NCAA info on Michigan, and definitely wondering who that firm is. I've seen rumours about Ryan Day being behind the investigation, or hiring a PI or whatver, and I figure, okay, that's just rumour.
And I'm trying not to go crazy about all this, because I acknowledge that I get almost all my info from this site, so I know it's biased. And sometimes, I feel like I'm being radicalized or something, because when you step back and look at what most people here are saying, it's "everyone is conspiring against us" nonsense that, if I saw it on some other board, I'd laugh at it.
But, what has made me read crazy stuff like "Ryan Day hired a PI to look into Michigan and find whatever dirt he can" and nod my head has been the "hang a hundred on em" story. First, a link:
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ohio-state-coach-ryan-day-threatened-to--hang-100--on-michigan-a
I'll quote the relevant part:
Earlier this week, the Ohio State and Michigan ball coaches allegedly got into it on a Big Ten head coaches conference call. According to reports, while Day was speaking, Harbaugh cut him off to accuse the second-year head coach of holding on-field drills before the Friday 8/7 start date for such practices. Harbaugh mentioned linebackers coach Al Washington by name and referenced a photo taken of Washington working with players that had been making the rounds. Day, incensed, replied “How about I worry about my team and you worry about yours?” This, folks, is what we call midseason form.
Then, Day went on to tell his team we're going to hang 100 on em blah blah (over three years later, they're halfway there fyi). I dunno. I think about this story a lot, I guess. Especially his reply -- "how about I worry about my team and you worry about yours" -- instead of denying it, or even saying he'll look into it, it was more like he resented the fact that he was being accused. It just sounds like the kind of guy who would be pissed about being called out for breaking the rules, and want to spread that around. Not a far stretch, I mean a lot of people on this board have advocated for that on the Michigan side -- to go scorched earth and dig up everyone else's secrets, etc. So it's given me the opinion of "sure, it's possible, very possible" and made me feel okay to think that, given that since I'm a nobody, it doesn't really matter what I think.
So, when the link with the incorporation of the PI firm comes out, and it has dates, my first thought was to see when it happened relative to this story. I'm not sure exactly when the Big Ten conference call happened, but all the stories about it were in August 2020. This 4th and 1 Investigations was created September 14 2020. That timing seems too weird to think that these things are not related.
tl; dr -- It was August 2020 when Harbaugh accused Ryan Day of practices before he was supposed to, and Day got pissed at him in a call with other coaches. September 2020 is when this PI firm was created.
October 30th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
I have about a dozen pending FOIA requests with OSU to see if Day was dumb enough to do this through the university.
October 30th, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
If you get anything, start a full thread!
October 30th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^
Start at least 2
October 30th, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
About a dozen would suffice
October 30th, 2023 at 5:01 PM ^
but don't forget to study the info, parse it into five equally damning sections, and leak those one per day to Yahoo Sports, ESPN, Fox, NBC, CBS, SI during the week of November 13-17.
October 30th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
I will send you an Edible Arrangement if you find anything substantive.
October 30th, 2023 at 11:48 AM ^
Be careful Scarn. An “Edible Arrangement” could mean a LOT of different things to the posters on this blog.
October 30th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
I will accept both varieties, ideally delivered together.
October 30th, 2023 at 12:23 PM ^
Be sure to check out MGoPodcast sponsor Winewood Organics...
October 30th, 2023 at 10:26 PM ^
Fixed it for you: Winewood Organics
October 30th, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
For some reason I read that as edibles
October 30th, 2023 at 4:49 PM ^
Everyone knows you only send edible arrangements to people you don’t like.
October 30th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^
Would love to see how this plays out. Good shit Mr. Scarn! We’ll be waiting “patiently” for the fruits of your labor!
October 30th, 2023 at 11:39 AM ^
I say we all chip in and send a case of Charmin and a case of Just for Men (Jet Black) to Cryan Day if this all comes out...
October 30th, 2023 at 12:44 PM ^
So Jimmy is a rat and tried to turn Day in?? Sounds soft to me. 🙄
Harbaugh cut him off to accuse the second-year head coach of holding on-field drills before the Friday 8/7 start date for such practices. Harbaugh mentioned linebackers coach Al Washington by name and referenced a photo taken of Washington working with players that had been making the rounds
October 30th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
Can't wait to wear your team out on November 25 for the third year in a row.
October 30th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
I can’t wait either. The last time there was a game when Jimmy didn’t know our signals he pretend the team was sick and ducked them.
October 30th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^
Somebody call the wahmbulance. OSU Fan posting on Mgoblog and crying that something everybody in college football does, which the NCAA has clearly stated offers minimal competitive advantage, has anything to do with why we won by such huge margins with such a simple game plan. Pretty sure OSU knew we were going to run the ball on every play in the second half.
October 30th, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^
Source on this made up statement? The mental gymnastics to think it doesn’t offer a significant advantage while seeing the insane lengths Harbaugh and Co went to make sure they had the signals. Anyone who doesn’t understand the advantage it provides simply doesn’t know the game.
NCAA has clearly stated offers minimal competitive advantage
October 30th, 2023 at 8:54 PM ^
I guess it’s unfortunate this issue came up this early this season. You must be scrambling to try to figure out what excuse you’re going to use for this year’s curb stomping.
October 30th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^
So help us understand why, when Day knew the signs were compromised for over a year, did they not fix that before the 2022 game, in the Horseshoe nonetheless?
October 30th, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^
Happy to help. I’m guessing no coach in America anticipated Michigan staffers attending multiple games of theirs during the season. Any changes would be of no use when Harbaugh and Co are in the stands recording the new signals.
October 30th, 2023 at 4:05 PM ^
Staffers:
October 30th, 2023 at 1:21 PM ^
I’m not sure how knowing the signals has anything to do with blowing through that sad excuse for a defense to the tune of 87 points the last two years, but maybe you can explain?
October 30th, 2023 at 1:46 PM ^
If you don’t know how that impacts the game, no one can explain it to you until you learn basic football. From there it’s much easier to explain why knowing the play that is being run will help you stop it. Hope that helps.
October 30th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^
Osu already stated they changed the signals before last years game.
try another excuse.
October 30th, 2023 at 2:48 PM ^
He negged me for pointing that out in a different thread with no reply.
October 30th, 2023 at 5:41 PM ^
I’ll answer it again. You can’t change all of your signals in a week. You don’t anticipate such a vast spying network that your team will be scouted again after you change the signals. Notice how UM can barely lead Rutgers at halftime and do so well in the second half after they have re-cracked to code? Fun question, why do opposing teams that UM has scouted do so much worse on play action than opener they have not scouted/out of conference? It’s almost like it’s easier to depend when you know the run is not a threat on play action.
October 30th, 2023 at 9:13 PM ^
"You don’t anticipate such a vast spying network that your team will be scouted again after you change the signals."
But you did anticipate the vast spying network, right? According to the Yahoo story, basically everyone in the Big Ten knew in 2022 who Stalions was and what he was doing. One school used wristbands. You guys changed up signs. You had more time than anyone to prepare for that.
Notice how UM can barely lead Rutgers at halftime and do so well in the second half after they have re-cracked to code?
First of all, you're saying that we stole their signs in-game which is why we didn't separate until the 2nd half. I thought you were trying to make the argument that we stole signs in advance. You're allowed to steal signs in-game.
But lucky for you, we gave up a 69-yard TD on the third play of the game. That was their only score. So really, our defense was consistent throughout the whole game. It is true that they had two other big drives in the game. One was a missed FG in the first half. The other was an 11-play drive all the way down to the 27 yard line. That was after halftime, when you say we had already cracked the code.
Fun question, why do opposing teams that UM has scouted do so much worse on play action than opener (sic) they have not scouted/out of conference?
So, ECU, UNLV, and Bowling Green? I missed something. Did they light us up this year?
Also, MSU did not show us their signs this year. They also struggled in that game. So we didn't really have a hard time without the MSU signs. We couldn't even steal them in-game since they didn't use any.
October 30th, 2023 at 3:04 PM ^
Coaches watch film. They know the plays coaches run and the situations they run them in. They know formations because they watch film. Nothing is hidden unless you literally don't run a play or certain formation. Even with all that information, which is way more pertinent and useful than signs in football, you still have to execute it.
October 30th, 2023 at 5:43 PM ^
You can give your team the entire playbook and not suffer any material disadvantage. However, knowing what play the opposing team is getting ready to run is a huge advantage. It’s not difficult.
October 30th, 2023 at 9:20 PM ^
cbs650 is saying that normal scouting (watching film) is enough to tell teams what plays are coming. So even without signs, teams (because of scouting) are really good at knowing what's coming. Signs are just another piece of information. And stealing signs is legal. So any advantage Stalions gained is the difference between legal sign stealing (which OSU also does) and illegal sign stealing. Pretty minimal difference.
October 30th, 2023 at 3:07 PM ^
Coaches watch film. They know the plays coaches run and the situations they run them in. They know formations because they watch film. Nothing is hidden unless you literally don't run a play or certain formation. Even with all that information, which is way more pertinent and useful than signs in football, you still have to execute it.
October 30th, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
Ohio will be summarily destroyed this year
October 30th, 2023 at 2:42 PM ^
You realize 2022 was last year, right?
October 30th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
A rat is not calling someone out in front of everybody. A rat is sneaking around and being an informant when you pretend you're not the one informing.
I don't know what hiring a PI to investigate someone and then hide behind the anonymous PI is. That's not a rat either. But on the Charmin Softness scale, with softest being at the bottom, it goes:
Harbaugh
Rat
Ryan Day
October 30th, 2023 at 1:47 PM ^
We grew up if different neighborhoods, where I grew up a snitch is a snitch, period.
October 30th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
He didn't snitch on him, he called Day out right to his face.
October 30th, 2023 at 5:44 PM ^
*snitched on a zoom call. Nice reach tho
October 30th, 2023 at 9:23 PM ^
To his face on a zoom call. This is still pretty different from what Ryan Day did. Maybe you don't see the difference. It's a judgment call, I suppose, so I can't make you see it otherwise.
October 30th, 2023 at 1:18 PM ^
No, he actually called him out directly instead of asking his brother to do his dirty work for him.
October 30th, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
Confirmed
He is that dumb
October 30th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
Are they cooperating? All the same intrepid reporters want to know. Lest they tarnish their long established credentials.
October 30th, 2023 at 5:55 PM ^
Just check Ryan’s Venmo
October 30th, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
So...we do have dirt on Day?? Why am I just hearing about it now? The media game is no longer played by the Marquis of Queensbury rules. Note to Warde, Santa and the other higher-ups: Play like a gentleman and lose like a bitch.
October 30th, 2023 at 11:32 AM ^
Honestly, if it comes out that OSU and or Ryan day did hire this firm, Michigan should have a PI following the OSU program. Basically 24/7 365 till the end of time
October 30th, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^
This is all hypotheticals of course, but running with it for the moment...
Since "this firm" seems to simply be Christopher Day, there wouldn't have been any need to hire him. I suppose the only reason to incorporate was to make sure if it ever hit the fan in the form of a lawsuit his personal assets would be protected.
According to CDs linkedin he's working two gigs in medical sales. The investigative work is there but without any company name.
So I think the timeline would be something like this:
August 2000: "You worry about your team and I'll worry about mine."
September 2000: Chris Day sets up his LLC and starts looking for work that's more flexible than his DEA job.
January 2001: He's found commission work with a couple of medical equipment outfits, leaves the DEA.
He could easily be doing it on his own dime, with a little help from his millionaire brother. He certainly seems the type: sort of like Connor Stalions, if Stalions were named Harbaugh and had a nasty temper.
I'll be very very surprised if there's any paper trail back to the university. If an investigator is going to look into this, I think it'd be more fruitful to look for a link between CD and the information that's gone to the press and the NCAA; public opinion would easily assume the rest.
Time for a new firm. 85 Yards LLC. With offices in Ann Arbor, Columbus, and Keene NH.
October 30th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
This matches my thought pretty well, too. No need to "hire" him, but there probably does need to be a "private investigative firm" with a name to give info to the NCAA, instead of using a name with the last name "Day" or just delivering it anonymously.
October 30th, 2023 at 1:40 PM ^
You know the NCAA would want to treat a blue blood member in good standing institution fairly and disclose the source of an accusation! Likewise they would never have a person sit in judgment with an axe to grind that is not welcome on one CFB sideline alone.
Think of the message that might send to the children (collegiate athletes and their parents so affected).
October 30th, 2023 at 1:58 PM ^
I'd been thinking that they'd surely use an intermediary, not a corporate name where his name was on the filing papers.
But maybe I'm wrong about that. I can find literally nothing connecting the name "Christopher Day" to "4th and One LLC" except the corporate filing. He even left the firm's name off his linkedin, the only time he did that on the whole resume. Maybe he forgot NH filing papers include a "manager" and not just the filing agent?