The only comparable on campus scouting case I can find.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:21 PM ^
And that was an assistant coach who did it! Not friends of a volunteer/low level staffer. This whole thing is hilarious to me. The uproar about it even more so.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
The question is, how do you translate "assistant coach at 1 game" to "volunteer/staffer at multiple games?" The lower level of employment for Stalions is to Michigan's benefit, but the fact that it was evidently organized and involved multiple games is not.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:33 PM ^
The NCAA still has to somehow prove that these friends were filming signals based on stadium surveillance footage, that they transmitted these videos to Stalions, that Stalions then decoded the signals based on these videos and gave the coaches that information to give them a competitive advantage, etc. Until more comes out I'm not going to freak out about it, and ultimately I think the coaches and the AD are insulated enough from this that nothing more will happen beyond a punishment to Stalions, maybe some minor punishment to the program akin to what Baylor got above.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:35 PM ^
I'm sorry, but the NCAA has to "prove" no such thing. They are not a court of law, there is no presumption of innocence.
October 23rd, 2023 at 6:06 PM ^
While I do agree, if that’s the case then if I was Michigan I would just keep Stalions on the payroll.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:39 PM ^
"The NCAA still has to somehow prove that these friends were filming signals based on stadium surveillance footage, that they transmitted these videos to Stalions, that Stalions then decoded the signals based on these videos and gave the coaches that information to give them a competitive advantage, etc."
No they dont. This isnt a court of law, this is the NCAA where they will act as judge, jury and executioner as one. If this was an actual court you'd be correct but it's not and I think you're missing that critical nuance as you whistle through this graveyard
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:48 PM ^
The same NCAA that turned five Level 1 violations against Kansas in a FBI-investigated case of CBB corruption into a bunch of level 2 and level 3 violations. The only way serious punishments come from this, assuming this was all just one bad actor, is if Michigan decides to commit seppuku (which is very possible admittedly).
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:11 PM ^
More than possible, I'm sorry to say.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:38 PM ^
Yeah, they don’t have to prove it beyond a reasonable. It’s not a court of law. They just have to establish that it’s a likely scenario. Which it is.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:22 PM ^
They have photo evidence of the Baylor coach on the sideline so it was an open shut case. Like somebody took his picture from a few feet away. They dont seem to have pictures of Stalions himself at a game
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:33 PM ^
Because he reportedly didn't attend any of the games, his friends did. So again, unless the NCAA can prove that these friends filmed signals and sent those videos to Stalions and Stalions then watched those videos to decode their signals, no one affiliated with Michigan has broken any rules.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:39 PM ^
They can almost certainly prove the friends filmed the signals and sent them to him.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:44 PM ^
Well until they do it's a different conversation. Right now all they have are tickets purchased and video of people in those seats holding up their cell phones.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:26 PM ^
Opposing fans who don't like seeing their teams get mauled by us will enjoy all of this, I couldn't care less about any of it. What did we do? Oh? Well, whatever, let me go ahead and watch JJ surgically destroy another defense.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
That's exactly how I see it!!! You mean to tell me a low level staffer knows more about the game than JIM HARBAUGH and that the signs will somehow be a part of OUR game plan to beat RUTGERS??? UNLV??? Connecticut??? We will be fine and Stalions will lose his superfan card!!! Onward and
GO BLUE
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:22 PM ^
Somehow this is the first information I've seen that actually has info on potential penalties. This was a level II, but one staff member at one game. Don't think M will get off as easily.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
It's a difference of degree, not kind. No staffers, but one staffer organizing let's say twenty game visits. If it wasn't known/directed by higher-ups, this ought not to be a hanging offense.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
Folks!
"If it wasn't known/directed by higher-ups, this ought not to be a hanging offense..."
It had to be known by higher ups. Otherwise what was the point?? And that the information was transmitted up the organization will be easy to prove.
It is said that the reward must exceed the consequences of getting caught. Anybody think the benefits of this will outweigh the consequences??
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:34 PM ^
And that the information was transmitted up the organization will be easy to prove.
He's allowed to pass information up the organization about how to interpret the other team's signs. That's his actual job.
He's expected to do his analysis legally to get that info.
October 24th, 2023 at 8:22 AM ^
It did not have to be known by higher ups. He could easily have said that through his evaluation of watching tape of the teams that he had picked up this information. He was obviously a wannabe and doing everything he could to try and move up the ladder. Unfortunately for him this time he fell off the ladder. Have to believe his time on the sidelines will now be gone. I had a nephew who did this same sort of job for Harbaugh. He fortunately did everything on the up and up and through watching tape. He was really good with analytics and he was never asked to try and acquire information in an against the rules manner. This has rogue wannabee written all over it.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:41 PM ^
The coach is responsible if a staffer breaks the rules. This dynamic is actually codified. “I didn’t know” begets “you should have known.”
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:22 PM ^
Make it stop
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:22 PM ^
Check ESPN.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
Two assistant coaches attend game <<< friends of an analyst attend game.
In all seriousness, the "electronic monitoring" or whatever portion of this will be the NCAA's silver bullet.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
The problem is this was 30 games over 3 years. That violation only says 1 game. They are going to roast Michigan. I wish I knew the truth. Was this one guy trying to raise his profile by looking like a genius when he acted, at half time, like he figured out the signs during the first half or was the rest of the staff aware?
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^
Rationally, I don't understand how the entire staff would be cool with such a blatant scheme. If this was known by the staff, they'll all flirting with career-ending show causes. So that gives me hope Stalions went rogue.
Then again, rationally you wouldn't buy the tickets in your own fucking name, so who knows.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
I think this is all dumb because "NCAA", but I look at the rational side of this differently.
Stalions is getting paid $55K/year to add some value to the football program. If he isn't providing anything, why pay him?
My questions is, if he was providing reports highlighting future opponents signals and resulting play calls up the chain of command within the football program, at some point a coach needed to ask "How did we get this info because this isn't your normal game tape watching info".
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:42 PM ^
Right. One game gets a slap on the wrist. A systematic approach over 30 games is hardly comparable. In fact, one could reasonably argue that it’s, um, 30 times worse.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
And also two recruiting violations. Given this was in the same timeframe as Art Briles many and heinous violations, I'd say they got off pretty lightly compared to the head hunters the NCAA sent after our program.
As alway, the rotting corpse of that institution needs to be put in a garbage bag and tossed in the woods.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
That's not even remotely close, unfortunately.
The fact that they keep using the term "vast network" means the media doesn't see it that way either, and we already know how the NCAA feels about Harbaugh.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:31 PM ^
No vacated wins. PSU got their vacated wins back. Worst case for us is some coaches get suspended for games in 2024 or 2025.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:42 PM ^
PSU case was different iirc - they got their wins back because the NCAA deemed that they punished them for something beyond their purview
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
Covering up child sexual abuse because it's likely to ruin your program and your legendary coach, was beyond their purview?
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:10 PM ^
so i guess the ncaa claims they did have the authority, but then gave back the wins anyway?
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/12179571/joe-paterno-111-wins-were-vacated-restored
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:20 PM ^
Penn State was threatening to sue the NCAA. Emmert backed off at that point.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:06 PM ^
The assaults took place in the Lasch football building.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:32 PM ^
There is a steady drip of news that will dominate and cripple the season/program...
Was this one individual, multiple?
Not good tbh. As the onion layers get peeled back, who knows what else will be found.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:38 PM ^
I don't think so on the cripple part. If anything I think this team will play even harder than they already have.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:43 PM ^
We already have a game's worth of evidence to prove your point. I get that MSU is bad; however, a 49-0 beatdown of a rival, on the road, at night, seems like the best performance to date.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:44 PM ^
Just gotta enjoy the games as they happen because the NCAA may very well take them away
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^
If they try, Michigan will threaten to sue the NCAA. Penn State threatened to sue and Paterno got his wins back.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:37 PM ^
PSU had nothing to do with actual games. This theoretically has direct impact on outcomes of games.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^
So if we do this right then all the punishment necessary is that Connor Stalions should receive a 1 game suspension.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^
Still a lot to be determined about what actually happened. I guess one question I have is if you can get the 22 film does that not show the sideline the entire time? This seems like information that is readily available to all programs, not sure why this dude thought it would be helpful to have some iphone footage? The fact that the rule has not really been amended in 30 years makes me think this guy outsmarted himself if he even broke a rule. I have no doubt other schools are more than happy to turn over ticket purchase information.
Also, be interesting to know if UM was using this guys information? Who was he transfering what he saw in game to the actual coaching staff?
Either way looks like a schematics game is going to be played out by Michigan lawyers and NCAA lawyers.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:47 PM ^
Seth mentioned in a previous thread that teams scrub their All-22 film so that you can't see their sidelines.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:42 PM ^
We’re fucked. The NCAA will take this and run with it.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:43 PM ^
If Stalions had just cash apped his friends the money to buy their one tickets rather than purchasing them himself the NCAA would have absolutely nothing.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:44 PM ^
Suffice to say, the NCAA will need to contort itself in a lot of disgusting ways to fill all the gaps in their allegations. There is so much about them that seems either logistically implausible, unlikely to be proven, and even flatly illogical. Yes, it is the NCAA, but I don't sense doom and I don't see this, at the moment, as being some top-down organized scheme. If it was, these guys are smart enough not to let Stalions purchase tickets in his own name, I would think.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:02 PM ^
Totally agree. If there is systemic organized cheating, we are terribly bad at it. Most likely he went rogue. Let's hope so.
That said, people close to him probably should have at least had an inkling that he was a little too good at what he was doing. It's unfortunate all the way around, especially for the players.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:48 PM ^
Exactly. Why did this guy get hired at all? What football analysis skills did he bring? His skill, it seems, was at stealing signs. Which is fine if you do it by the books. But if you are to believe that, you have to believe he was able to steal signs IN REAL TIME, like Rain Man? Seems unlikely!