"Michigan State initially warned the Big Ten it might consider not playing Saturday’s game out of concern for health and safety for its players"
Michigan football facing allegations of sign stealing - The Athletic
"Michigan State was approached by the league as a forewarning ahead of this weekend’s matchup between the rivals in East Lansing. According to a source briefed on those conversations, upon learning of the pending investigation, Michigan State initially warned the Big Ten it might consider not playing Saturday’s game out of concern for health and safety for its players. On Thursday morning, MSU confirmed it will indeed play the game."
October 19th, 2023 at 1:49 PM ^
I swear, if this ends up being something I'm done with college football. Teams out here left and right cheating and Michigan is the one that suffers?
October 19th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
Take the other route -- is it even cheating? Is what they are alleged to have done technically against ncaa rules? There's a wide range of stealing signs that comes before Astros-type shit.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:56 PM ^
Scouting other teams is ethical and advisable.
Its like timing a snap count.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:29 PM ^
I'm literally looking for whatever "evidence" is being used to propagate this claim, and so far everything boils down to "they seemingly knew our plays" or "they're too good at predicting what we do" which is decidedly not illegal, but in fact the entire purpose of football planning. Nobody has actually said "we saw a M staffer at Rutgers early in the year with a pair of binoculars scribbling notes"
If we actually sent paid staffers to other games with the intent to do additional reconnaissance, somebody wake me up then
October 19th, 2023 at 2:41 PM ^
That's a fantastic point. If it were really true, there would be more evidence out there than coaches claiming stuff is going on / the conference and ncaa watching tapes showing like it seems M knows too well what is coming.
Instead of that, the sources would be saying somebody saw some M guy at some game recording or something of the sort -- they are not.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:51 PM ^
It’s also against the rules to send a staffer to scout a game
October 19th, 2023 at 5:54 PM ^
Sounds like the bagels but no cream cheese rule.
October 19th, 2023 at 6:02 PM ^
Bill Belichick does this stuff he’s called a genius
October 19th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
Three main possibilities here, right?
1 - They've got someone on staff who watches the opposing sidelines and figures out tendencies, indicators, and maybe flat-out "steals" signs. That's sports. Teams have sophisticated systems to prevent this exact scenario. NOTHING-burger.
2 - People are doing in-person scouting, which sounds like it's prohibited... but if they're not M staff, how is this policed? GRAY AREA.
3- They're videotaping opponents' signals or intercepting communications on the sidelines and using the info to tip off the players. PROBLEM.
I won't pretend to know any more than anyone else. But to me, and as Brian alluded on Twitter... they don't play like a team that "knows what's coming" so at first blush I'm gonna guess the most likely scenario is like a 1.5
October 19th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
4. A highly professional staff, with veteran and seasoned players,who are recruited for intelligence with more emphasis than in other programs, figure stuff out. And opponents, who are getting blown out. Anyway, got butt hurt and were sore losers— who found a more than willing accomplice in the NCAA.
Consider that a 6-year guy, like many of our players are, will have spent a quarter of his life in Michigan football and as a student at the University of Michigan. We definitely are not pulling a Hans Niemann, anal beads in professional chess, level of prescience or knowledge. There's absolutely nothing in the on-field product to suggest that this is the case.
The cost of being better than everyone else, and especially doing that while doing things the right way and in a different way than everybody else, is becoming a target of butt-sore losers
October 19th, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
Yeah, this is totally fair. Can't rule out sour grapes, especially in light of hard-to-deny points like what signs are we possibly stealing from Rutgers/Nebraska/Minnesota/Indiana?
"Hey guys, I think they're gonna run the play where the QB gets rid of the ball REALLY QUICKLY to avoid getting killed or intercepted by one of our four potential All-Americans!"
October 19th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
They should have accused me of "stealing signs" for knowing that Maryland's backup QB was going to run a sneak when they trotted him out for that stupid 4th and 1 against OSU a couple weeks ago.
October 19th, 2023 at 8:52 PM ^
Or predicting Lloyd was gonna run off Jake long an entire fukin game.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:48 PM ^
Yeah and as I said in the other thread, Michigan is playing a ton of 1st time OCs with young or new QBs. None of the offenses they've played so far are very innovative or complex, with the exception of UNLV. It's not outlandish to suggest that an experienced DC with upperclassman in their 3rd year in the system are able to pick up offense's tells.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:07 PM ^
Whose got the anal beads now? 🤷🏼♂️
October 19th, 2023 at 3:27 PM ^
upvote for the Hans Nieman reference
October 19th, 2023 at 2:38 PM ^
they don't play like a team that "knows what's coming"
If we're stealing signs, we must have to forgot to tell Keon Sabb to watch for the double pass against Indiana lol
October 19th, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^
I'm the most "the rules are the rules" guy you'll ever find, but I agree -- there is zero reason to believe that Michigan has broken the rules. If Michigan is sending a staffer to games to do in-person scouting, that's cheating; but, if that's the case, they're pretty bad at it. Brian and Seth's RPS scores should be off the charts if they actually knew what play was coming each time.
Furthermore, if the opponents knew that Michigan steals signs... it really shouldn't have been difficult to say "if I signal in a sweep right, run a counter to the left; if I signal in a dive, run a play-action." At some point, if you know the enemy has broken your code, you start to feed misinformation.
I suspect this is the ultimate nothingburger.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:26 PM ^
"Michigan stole our signs, I know because we called a run, and they defended it!"
"So did you change your signs, knowing that Michigan had them scouted?"
".........NCAA, HELP!"
October 19th, 2023 at 3:02 PM ^
And this is all speculation but I've seen rumors that it was Schiano and Day who brought up those complaints (with Day the claim is that they think they say someone on the sidelines of an OSU game), which then feels even more like former OSU guys who don't like losing and won't deal with it like adults.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:05 PM ^
Harbaugh to the NCAA/MSU:
October 19th, 2023 at 2:56 PM ^
Considering the recipients, I would opt for the direct approach:
October 19th, 2023 at 2:18 PM ^
Take care of business. Move on.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:23 PM ^
The season is over. The NCAA is out to get us and they won't stop until they succeed. You think it matters whether or not this is true? It doesn't. We're FUCKED. NCAA knows they can fuck us too. That's why this was announced before any evidence presented. It's because the evidence fucks us. Does every other team probably do this and much worse? Of course. The difference is that the NCAA doesn't want to fuck anyone but us. Could have been the best season ever. Ah well. BPONE is back.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^
It would seem that if the evidence is that good they would just cite the evidence.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^
But ncaa doesn’t control the playoffs, so we have that going for us.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^
If there is evidence that Harbaugh or one of the coaches approved someone going to a game and recoding it or whatever, I am OK with screwing up the season. It is what it is. At least it is true. I can live with that. If it is just a rumor and they screw us over without evidence, then I would be pissed for a long time.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
Did I miss the news the rest of the season was cancelled?
October 19th, 2023 at 2:24 PM ^
What was the old joke about recruiting? Alabama is breaking the rules. We better investigate towson state!
October 19th, 2023 at 2:47 PM ^
This seems like the ncaa finding something else to chase harbaugh and try to humiliate him over.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:50 PM ^
Yeah Michigan definitely out manuevered them with the self impossed 3 game suspension. They are probably salty about that.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:49 PM ^
That does not seem remotely plausible on many levels
Addendum: It's not plausible that MSU actually considered not playing the Michigan game, BUT it's very funny that "sources" from within the program are now on-record in a prestigious publication saying they considered ducking us. Nicely played, Sparty
October 19th, 2023 at 1:56 PM ^
Article also says:
"The league claims that Michigan, as one source with knowledge of the allegation said, is using a “vast network” to steal opposing teams’ signs."
Can we get an "Undercover Spy for Harbaugh" mgoshirt printed before i go to EL on Saturday?
October 19th, 2023 at 1:57 PM ^
I need this shirt.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:53 PM ^
October 19th, 2023 at 5:13 PM ^
That's too elaborate - literally a dark blue shirt with low-quality maize colored printing on the front (in block letters) saying "Undercover Spy for Harbaugh" is enough. Shows people we are there but are running on lowest effort possible.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:01 PM ^
And why would Michigan need a vast network to beat any of the teams played to date?
October 19th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
Exactly. It is probably IU who is pissed their first quarter success did not work the whole game..
October 19th, 2023 at 2:28 PM ^
Well, we do have a "vast" network of Michigan season tickets holders. And a vast network of MGoUsers here on the board. So there's that. 🤪
October 19th, 2023 at 3:16 PM ^
I confess. When watching games, I ALWAYS know what play is coming next. (We're not counting the extremely rare exceptions.)
October 19th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^
Checking in as a fellow member of the "vast network" who will be behind enemy lines on Saturday. Go Blue!
October 19th, 2023 at 2:31 PM ^
"Vast network" member, checking in for duty!
October 19th, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
Would fans going to the game all please bring binoculars and a hand held radio and occasionally talk into them after staring at play calls just to increase the paranoia factor?
Pretty please???
October 19th, 2023 at 2:41 PM ^
1000 times this. We need to incept this idea on Twitter and elsewhere, particularly for the OSU game
October 19th, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
Good gracious, how hilarious would it be if groups of men started dressing up in dark suits, sunglasses, and walkie-talkies started showing up at games? Just going full Secret Service at every away game.
October 19th, 2023 at 5:11 PM ^
This would be utterly fantastic and the most Michigan thing ever!
October 19th, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
The user that posted about going to the OSU/Penn State game this weekend needs a shirt like this. "Just here scouting for Michigan" would be awesome to see
October 19th, 2023 at 2:55 PM ^
Was just thinking about that. He already said he is wearing a Michigan jersey to the game.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:27 PM ^
Yes, that would be awesome indeed!!!!