December 19th, 2020 at 12:32 PM ^
"Everyone" wanted Harbaugh in 2014.
The grass is always greener...
December 19th, 2020 at 1:17 PM ^
I still want the Harbaugh from 2014 instead of the Great Value brand Harbaugh that’s been roaming the sidelines the past couple of years.
December 19th, 2020 at 2:40 PM ^
I want pre-JT-spot Harbaugh. That seems to have been the tipping point.
December 19th, 2020 at 2:43 PM ^
And?
Harbaugh in 2014 was a totally different coach than Harbaugh in 2020.
December 19th, 2020 at 3:35 PM ^
The point is careful what you wish for... you might get it.
Campbell might not be the savior that half this board thinks he is.
December 19th, 2020 at 6:35 PM ^
absolutely true. He may not be.
the issue is that its pretty clear that Harbaugh definitely isn't the savior people thought he would be (and that was 98% of this board including myself).
so, the question is whether you stick with the devil you know or you roll the dice.
December 19th, 2020 at 8:41 PM ^
That depends on if one believes Harbaugh can get the team back to where is was in 2016 or so. This year isn't a good basis to make any judgments, but a defensive staff shakeup seems in the cards at least. Recruiting is still good to very good and the offense will be going into year 3 of Gattis (with Cade and Milton both having experience in it). We won't likely be in a terrible position next year and it will be interesting to see what develops on the defensive staff.
We have yet to see this program exhibit enough long term stability (that can get through a bad season or two) since the Carr years. Averaging a full staff turnover every 4-5 years usually is not good for any football program.
December 19th, 2020 at 9:02 PM ^
its not just this year, for me at least...11-10 in the last 21 games and 5 ass kickings hasn't exactly given this fan a lot of confidence in moving forward.
In terms of coaching changes, that's a bit of an unknown: movement isn't unusual and Michigan isn't a program that is cheap with their assistant coaching salary pool (they are 12 overall) so its not as though they should be suffering huge turnover every year, especially as their performance on the field isn't exactly best in class.
it begs the question why Michigan has so much coaching turnover compared to other programs, especially those that consistently outperform Michigan.
As a fan, I hope Harbaugh can turn it around; however, as many have noted, this is his program. The idea that he will make coaching changes that will turn things around is a bit of an oxymoron, considering it was his choices that got the program here to begin with.
December 20th, 2020 at 9:23 AM ^
It's Cultspeak with unfounded optimism that allows people to overlook the fact that Coach "shaking up the staff" already happens....every year.
We've had two coaches with ANY success the past 6 years- Brown and Warriner. Somehow the cult members think the solution should START with getting rid of Brown??
We don't want your "gimmicky" top 5 defenses around here with their padded stats. Let's build off our top 90 "speed in space" offense and see what happens...
December 19th, 2020 at 9:34 PM ^
You're talking long term stability but also mention replacing the whole defensive staff.
December 20th, 2020 at 7:04 AM ^
Changing one section of a staff (and it might not be a full replacement of the defensive coaches, either - we don't know yet) is still less dramatic than a wholesale changeover.
December 20th, 2020 at 1:05 AM ^
You can say that about literally every coach in america. I could say Saban might not be the savior we all think he could be. Obviously nothing is guaranteed. But my eyes see a far better and overachieving coach in Cambell than underachieving lobotomy Harbaugh
December 20th, 2020 at 7:29 AM ^
The difference in your Saban to Campbell comparison is that Saban has proven his success at places with very high football standards... twice (LSU and Bama). Campell has had a few good (but not dominant) years at ISU (a place with low expectations and little pressure) - also aided by most of the non-Oklahoma teams being in relative down periods during the same years. Campell is a good coach and brings a lot of energy, but even at Toledo he was somewhat unproven (he became interim head coach when Beckman left and just kept things going - he was only there four years as HC and didn't really "build" the team and staff there - his succesor Jason Candle, another internal promotion when Campell left, has pretty much done the same thing).
Campell has certainly exceeded just about every expectation at ISU, but how much if that was "him" and how much was it circumstances? Yes, he beat OU this year (almost twice)... and also lost at home to a Sunbelt team. Michigan has had many experiences hiring coaches that were "hot" by having success at smaller programs - it didn't always end well.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^
Are you seriously asking if Michigan fans will turn on a good coach who loses to a better team???
December 19th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
A lot of us were attacked for giving Harbaugh too many chances ?♂️ there is no winning with this fanbase
December 19th, 2020 at 7:21 PM ^
I blame the lions and Ford family for this. The Lions effect on the Michigan fanbase cannot be understated.
mildly/s
December 19th, 2020 at 12:34 PM ^
Is the game already over? I thought it just started?
December 19th, 2020 at 12:35 PM ^
OU is everyone's big brother in the big 12. They fucked up a bit in the beginning of the year, but they expect to win.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:53 PM ^
How is Texas so messed up? It makes me happy that a power house like Texas is also down in the dumps for an extended period of time, but it also makes me sad as it I don't want to have a carousel of coaches like Texas...
December 19th, 2020 at 2:47 PM ^
Michigan and Texas are the exact same thing. Multiple failed coaches, media declares them back after a few wins, media loves to shit on them and continues to be a mediocre team with a big name.
December 19th, 2020 at 3:47 PM ^
Add Florida St, USC and Miami to this list as well.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:36 PM ^
Yes, I will still want the coach who turned a traditional 3 win program into a conference contender. If he loses to the Ohio state of the big 12, so be it.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:43 PM ^
Isn’t that exactly what Jim Harbaugh did/is doing, minus this year?
... but instead of losing to the Ohio State of the Big 12, he’s just losing to Ohio State.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
Michigan is a traditional 3 win program?
What Matt Campbell is doing at Iowa State is equatable of making Illinois or Maryland into a division contender. The institutional benefits of Michigan to Iowa State is insurmountable.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:56 PM ^
I’m not that far off from being in agreement with you, but my larger point is what is Michigan “upgrading” to if that is your criteria.
I also think one of the toughest things to do in sports is winning when you are supposed to win. That’s what makes Urban Meyer, Saban, Coach K, etc. such high end coaches, is even with the talent, they make it produce every year.
Not saying Michigan doesn’t need to move on, but I’m worried about the quality of the guy we are getting back, and maybe we just need to focus on Coordinators and have Harbaugh be the CEO and less of a micro manager
December 19th, 2020 at 1:00 PM ^
I think Michigan would upgrade to a guy who despite talent deficiencies, has upset the upper echelon programs of the Big 12, and runs a modern, effective offense. Sure things in College Football don't exist. Mario Cristobal was a failed FIU coach before Oregon, Dabo Sweeney was a position coach, Ryan Day coached quarterbacks.
The point of Coordinators fixing Michigan and keeping Harbaugh is something you could convince me in 2018. However, we have seen 4 different people in charge of playcalling over the 6 years: Jedd Fisch, Tim Drevno, Pep Hamilton, Jim Harbaugh, and Josh Gattis, and the offense is still a mess. What makes you think a new coordinator would make the difference? Also, Harbaugh is who he is, which is a micro manager.
December 19th, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^
Winning at Iowa State is more like winning at Northwestern was in the nineties. Prior to their 10-2 Big Ten championship in 1995, their last winning season had been 1971. During that stretch they'd been truly horrific, winning 1 game or fewer 7 times.
Having said that, I would keep in mind that Gary Barnett, Northwestern's coach then, did not set the world on fire at his next job at Colorado. Campbell might if Michigan hires him--and I would certainly not complain if they did hire him after Harbaugh--but there are no guarantees.
I'm personally not convinced that the skill sets needed to lift a program out of the mud like Barnett did at Northwestern and Campbell has at Iowa State necessarily translates to the skill sets needed to win national championships.
December 19th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
From 1969 to 2004 Michigan won or shared 21 Big Ten Championships. 0 since then.
Year 6 of Harbaugh and we get to watch other teams in the Championship game, yet again.
December 19th, 2020 at 6:21 PM ^
Horrible comment.
December 19th, 2020 at 2:37 PM ^
Oklahoma and OSU are not on the same level. As a matter of fact the Big 12 pretty much sucks across the board. Getting crushed by Oklahoma would not be a good sign for Iowa State
December 19th, 2020 at 2:50 PM ^
OU & OSU aren’t on the same level, but the talent gap based on recruiting classes between OU & ISU is probably comparable to the gap between OSU & UM? ISU beat OU once already this year, it’s hard to beat a team twice...
December 19th, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^
Turning decent talent into good players is a character trait of a good coach. So beating OU once and then losing in the championship game isn’t a bad thing for ISU.
I just don’t necessarily think that being a coach that can do that translates to taking good to great talent and making them into championship teams. That’s my concern.
I believe the way to mitigate the risk is to higher over-qualified coordinators and have a CEO coach that has the feel for what needs to happen.
Let’s be known as the school that overpays our coordinators for a few years (easier to get rid of if they aren’t performing), gets them a head coaching job, and brings in more qualified coaches. Easy sell to coaches, good sell for recruits, and keep consistency at the top of the program.
December 19th, 2020 at 11:28 PM ^
Why exactly does the Big12 suck?!
December 19th, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^
Iowa State almost 50 spots lower on the 247 talent composite than OU (57 to 9). If Campbell can win games against the most talented teams in the country with that roster, he can do it with the talent he could recruit at Michigan.
December 19th, 2020 at 4:35 PM ^
Wasn't the "imagine what can he do with the talent at Michigan" the exact premise of hiring Don Brown, who everyone hates now? Wasn't this the same premise of hiring Rich Rod?
The problem with this theory is that elite coaches need to be able to recruit as well as coach. Don Brown showed what he could do with Michigan level talent for the first two years -- but he has also presided over a massive drop off in our defensive recruiting.
Coaches who are successful moving up usually show an ability to elevate recruiting wherever they are. Iowa State's recruiting rankings under Campbell (7th or 8th in the Big 12) are basically the same as before he got there. I would love for someone to explain how Campbell is going to be able improve recruiting here when couldn't do it at Iowa State? Exactly who is Campbell going to convince to come to Michigan who wouldn't have come here already?
Its actually way waay easier to take an awful team and build them to basic competence than to improve a team that is already good and build them into an elite program. Taking a 4-5 win team and turning them into a decent 8 win team is a sign of a decent to good coach, but doesn't project to an ability to take a 9-10 win team and turn them into an national championship contender.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^
I don't see why that's significantly worse than losing to OSU by 20.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
The argument could be made that Matt Campbell does the most with the least amount of talent of any coach in the country. Give that guy the natural minimum recruiting fire power that Michigan has and he could be special
December 19th, 2020 at 1:46 PM ^
You could have said the same thing about Brady Hoke a while back.
December 19th, 2020 at 1:50 PM ^
And Rich Rodriquez before that.
The coaches who make "more with less" often make less when they have more.
December 19th, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^
Not true.
W.Va. recruited way above Iowa State. They had decent talent. Note elite (well Pat White was great...), but RRod had much higher rated recruiting than anything Iowa State can get.
December 19th, 2020 at 2:16 PM ^
I'd say Pat Fitzgerald does more with less than Campbell. Fitz had to deal with much higher academic standards.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
Not to be an ass, but I'm rooting for Campbell. He is a damn good coach, building up Iowa State. He wasn't handed the keys to a hot team like Lincoln was.
I hope he beats Oklahoma.
December 19th, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^
December 19th, 2020 at 12:46 PM ^
This is dumb, Campbell is 2-3 against OU at ISU and has already beaten OU this year.
December 19th, 2020 at 12:49 PM ^
absolutely.
Okiahoma's team talent composite is 9.
ISU is 57...
ISU already beat Oklahoma this year; getting a double is pretty hard in CFB
December 19th, 2020 at 12:49 PM ^
Harbaugh lost by 20 to penn state..... a winless penn state and people still want him...I would think hard about your question
December 19th, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^
The score was 27-17...