It Was Over The Day Gattis Got The Keys
November 15th, 2020 at 8:16 AM ^
This team has never had an offensive identity. Harbaugh keeps rotating through offensive coordinators, but the offense looks the same directionless mess it always does. I wonder why.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:17 AM ^
I don't understand why. Is it really Gattis? Is it JH or other coaches on the staff meddling? Is it talent? Surely some plays are there that we don't hit the open WR/TE or he drops it. Surely some calls are head scratchers. But, it's hard to fathom he's this bad. He signed a 3 year deal and it would suck to transition again to another system if different.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:19 AM ^
It's hard to say but something that makes me think it's not totally Gattis is the use of the full back. This reeks of Harbaugh trying to still somehow play Bo ball and so I'm quite skeptical that he has totally been given the keys.. or any of the keys for that matter.. he might have the keyring or the spare under the door mat at best
November 15th, 2020 at 8:20 AM ^
Have to use a fullback to give Jim’s favorite player a chance to play. What would this team without Mason getting minutes?? It’s also the same with TEs. None of them are worth a shit but there they are every snap at least 1 is out there
November 15th, 2020 at 9:08 AM ^
A FB and a TE can be useful. Wisconsin showed that. UM needs an identity.
I'd be happy if we could morph into UW's identity. In many ways, it was what our identity was, i.e. huge OL, relentlessly grinding game, enough passing to keep the D honest.
Mason would fit in well and be useful at Wisconsin. None of the TE's would though.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
I'd be happy if we could morph into UW's identity. In many ways, it was what our identity was, i.e. huge OL, relentlessly grinding game, enough passing to keep the D honest.
Too late for that. We made our choice. Going back again to that style is a recipe for more questions and more setbacks and more criticisms. We need to push forward to a modern spread offense, preferably without JH at the helm.
November 15th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
Wisconsin is 2018 Michigan, except in an easier division and less institutional pressure to beat Ohio State. (Which they never do either.)
We said after 2018 that wasn't good enough, and it isn't.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:44 AM ^
What does Gattis, Brown, poor execution, poor recruiting, poor player evaluation, and poor discipline all have in common?
November 15th, 2020 at 9:18 AM ^
You forgot poor game planning.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:41 AM ^
This whole talent/recruiting vs development/coaching thing is a real head scratcher. On the one hand we don't look that talented. On the other hand we are both young and inexperienced. Although I think there is some truth to idea that we have several recruiting misses and/or guys that are not ideally suited for our scheme, I also have a hard time believing the miss rate is this high. Here are some highly ranked recruits who are not performing. And this doesn't include the freshmen. The only guys that seemingly are playing well are Dax Hill and...crickets. And, this is giving Hutch, Mayfield, & Hayes the benefit of the doubt while being injured. But, their play minus Minnesota is also questionable.
- Hinton: #31 5-star
- Charbonnet: #46 4-star
- Vilain: #57 4-star
- Smith: #105 4-star
- Filiaga: #112 4-star
- Johnson: #175 4-star
- Perry: #200 4-star
- Ross: #211 4-star
- McGrone: #118 4-star
- Milton: #204 4-star
And, here are guys that are no longer with the program and didn't pan out
- Solomon: #23 5-star
- Singleton: #79 4-star
- Anthony: #106 4-star
- Black: #116 4-star
- McCaffrey: #123 4-star
- Sims: #170 4-star
- Martin: #181 4-star
- Hudson: #231 4-star
Some of this has to be on the coaches. I'd have to assume if Solomon, Black, McCaffrey, Hudson, & Sims were on our team they'd be getting some significant playing time if the coaches didn't have some sort of issue with them and they were being judged purely on performance. Obviously we're also missing our #1 CB & #1 WR. Hypothetically if Hudson was our RT, Mayfield LT, McCaffrey QB, Collins WR #1, Black WR #2, Solomon NT, Thomas CB #1, Hutch SDE, & Paye WDE wouldn't we be a lot better?
It is really possible for luck to be this bad that we have 18 guys in three classes that are in the top 250 of national recruits that are not performing well? Can it all be bad luck and recruiting misses? Is it all lack of coaching and/or development. This is a real head scratcher. I don't have the answer, but it is so strange to be this bad with this many highly ranked recruits.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:47 PM ^
Yes, 99% of it is a lack of coaching, development AND unity. Talented players transferring out of the program and others opting to go undrafted rather than return for another year are red flags that there are internal issues. Those who stayed have not been developed or put in a position to succeed. How much weight each of those items account for could be debated forever. What is clear is that it will take a new staff to fix the problem. Once a coach loses the team, they are not going to get them back or fix the issues, and the death spiral continues.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:03 PM ^
Honestly the AD should fire Harbaugh, make Gattis the interim and at least give the next coach an idea if Gattis is any good. If he is, it might give the AD more latitude to hire a defensive minded coach.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:20 AM ^
Joke’s on you...Gattis was never given the keys. He’s more of a student driver with Harbaugh sitting in the passenger seat with a second steering wheel and his own break pedal.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:24 AM ^
This....this is painfully accurate to what I imagine is going on
November 15th, 2020 at 8:36 AM ^
This almost has to be it. There is no way the offense can still fail to call or run a simple pass play. There are easy yards out there with the talent and speed UM currently has. I’ve said it for years, but the offense always looks like every person has to solve a quantum physics problem before every play, then it appears they all get a different answer during it.
I was hoping Gattis was going to make it easier and smoother. Maybe he did, and Harbaugh is still messing with it.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:21 AM ^
"solve a quantum physics problem..."
And then the offense really slows down when the players have to show their work.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:35 AM ^
I love your analogy. I have asked several times why it seems that Michigan is always playing against 15 defenders??? Seemingly no space, basically no one running free, and every yard seems so damn hard to come by.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:39 AM ^
It is strange, but I don't want to give up on Gattis because I don't think he has been able to do any of what he came here to do. I believe Minnesota was a glimpse of "his" offense, but JH is the only plausible explanation for the full abort of any spread concepts.
The Milton runs were so painful to watch, like super slow mo replays that the defense had already seen.
Also, if you have turnover on the line, isn't the spread the perfect answer to neutralize the defense's advantage in the box?
So much potential, but no rudder.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:03 AM ^
The reason I'm skeptical that Harbaugh is interfering with the play calling is that I would think it would be impossible to keep direct accounts of that interference from getting out to the outside world, primarily via the players and legit program insiders. Unless I've missed it, there hasn't been any such direct testimony—it's only people on the internet who keep bringing it up.
Unfortunately, that doesn't help us—we're still left with the bizarre inability or reluctance to actually implement the "speed in space" stuff that Gattis has been talking incessantly about for two years. We got a hint of it against Minnesota, but it seemed to completely disappear against MSU. I haven't watched a minute of the IU or Wisconsin games, but from what I read "speed in space" has basically been absent.
• IF Harbaugh has been actively interfering w/playcalling, then Gattis has every right and reason to quit after the season.
• IF Harbaugh has been entirely hands-off, then Gattis's abilities as an OC are still quite limited.
In either case, we're screwed.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
When I watch Harbaugh try to answer a question, I find it hard to believe that he’s involved in play calling. If he was, we would be getting delay of game calls on every play.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:02 AM ^
I believe it was Magnus on Twitter that pointed out we run our spread from condensed formations 70% of the time. That's all Harbaugh. Gattis never got the keys.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
"we run our spread from condensed formations"
That's almost a philosophical oxymoron, but it's just another coaching mystery of the Harbaugh tenure.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:38 AM ^
Every OC Harbaugh has hired, since Jed Fisch, has come in and told us what to expect, what type of scheme he wants to play. They start off doing those things, and always - ALWAYS - revert back to FB led runs up the middle, PA, and a West Coast type of pass plan. None of those things work in todays football - and haven't for dozens of years.
Gattis is a guy that cut his teeth on innovative, high speed, high scoring offenses with demonstrable success at Vanderbilt, PSU, and Alabama. He didn't just change his life long offensive philosophy in the belief that a 20-year old scheme can work wonders. He didn't intentionally tell us about 'speed in space' knowing he'll turn his QB's back to the LoS.
There's only one constant in the continued Michigan football tradition of reverting to an old school 3 yds and a cloud of dust offense...
November 15th, 2020 at 8:42 AM ^
I would love to see a consistent 3 yards...
November 15th, 2020 at 9:10 AM ^
Ahh the good ol’ days
November 15th, 2020 at 8:45 AM ^
Is it really just a 3yds and cloud of dust offense though? We don’t run the ball that much, but I guess we don’t have the ball enough to do anything really. This is an offense that for years now hasn’t had a qb capable of consistently hitting a receiver in the flat for easy yards. It sure looked different against Minnesota and then has returned to being a jumbled mess.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:58 PM ^
It's a 50-year-old scheme...
November 15th, 2020 at 8:42 AM ^
It was over when David Shaw wasn't around to prevent Harbaugh from tripping on his way to the dais for his introductory presser.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:24 AM ^
You may want to reconsider your handle. Unless you're referring to John Harbaugh.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:36 AM ^
Hey, a “lesser man would have gone down”! James Joseph Harbaugh, 12-31-2014.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:14 AM ^
Agree. I was skeptical of the Gattis hire. Guy had never called plays before and that shows now. He’s learning in the job. He’s a hype man, he gushes about our players and builds them up and we all eat it up. But he was a bad hire. We needed someone proven.
When we hired Gattis, he wasn’t getting an OC jon with any blue blood. We took a flyer on him. His next stop was going to be at Maryland.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:27 AM ^
No one proven would come. They know Harbaugh is going to control and want nothing to do with that. Also, Harbaugh doesnt want a proven coordinator because they would be harder to control.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:40 AM ^
Frustrated as I am I don’t think it’s fair to lay this all on Gattis. The problems on team at this point seem to be apparent on both sides of the ball in terms of lack of discipline, attention to detail, etc.
If we can’t get a sure-fire big name to replace Harbaugh, what about elevating Gattis to HC? He’s young, energetic, has shown to be good recruiter, and has apprenticed under Saban, Franklin, and Harbaugh. Remember Dabo was WR coach under Bowden at Clemson, who was ousted after perpetual disappointment.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
Gattis has never been a play caller prior to him arriving. He talks a good game, but we have yet to see anything that shows any promise. Not sure why people are still in his favor. He needs to go as well.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:49 AM ^
I may be completely wrong, haven’t watched much of the games since Minnesota, but it seems to me that the play calling the first game and the last 3 have been completely different. Seemed like at Minnesota we were determined to out athlete them, and the last few we’ve tried to out muscle them and the play calling has been boring...
November 15th, 2020 at 9:46 AM ^
From the little I watched last night, Wisconsin looked crisp on offense. They shifted quickly, they seemed to be a team with a purpose, they seemed to know precisely what they were doing. We seemed to lollygag from spot to spot lining up and shifting. Certainly did not play with the crispness of Wisconsin. I cannot understand that.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:57 AM ^
We continue to have the same issues on offense and we are now on our 3rd OC in the Harbaugh era....news flash, its not the OC that is the problem. It is Harbaugh, plain and simple
November 15th, 2020 at 10:02 AM ^
The only thing that makes sense and fits the observable evidence is this.
Gattis is calling the plays.
But Harbaugh is dictating the personnel grouping.
This leaves Gattis in the position to try and run a spread offense with a FB and 2 TEs on the field.
For those that doubt this, ask yourself.
What percentage of plays does Michigan go 4 or even 5 wide?
What percentage of plays do we split the RB wide, or send him in motion?
What percentage of plays feature a FB?
What percentage of plays feature a TE?
The reality is we line up exactly how we always have in a Harbaugh offense, but try to call spread plays using a personnel grouping for an entirely different offense.
This is why everything looks like shit.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
The offense looks like a defense trying to stop big ten power running games with no DTs---oh wait we have one of those too......
November 15th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
Early in the game we had a false start penalty. Schoonmaker was lined up at tight end while All and Eubanks were split wide. If this led to a mismatch for All or Eubanks, that would be great. But I got the feeling Wisconsin couldn’t care less. Fine, throw to All, he’ll just drop it. Meanwhile, Wisconsin was missing their #1 cover corner. Outside of the one good McNamara drive, we never made them pay for that.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:31 AM ^
What needs to happen is to see a game where Gattis is confirmed as being allowed to REALLY run the offense, and then make an evaluation.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:03 AM ^
Gattis has to go with the rest of the staff. I wish him luck in his new job, wherever that may be, but any response but cleaning house entirely is nuts.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
Starting every play 5yds behind the LOS reeks of speed in space. We’ve abandoned the running game unless it’s 3rd and 20. Whoever’s calling these plays needs to be driven to the airport and given enough money for a ticket and a sandwich.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
it was over the day you registered on this site.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:13 AM ^
It was over the second that JT was awarded the first down. It’s been all downhill since then. I don’t know what exactly happened, but something changed in Harbaugh after that game was over. I think he legitimately feels his team was cheated out of a win, and I couldn’t say I’d blame him if he did feel that way, but since then he’s just been so lifeless.
Had that call gone Michigan’s way, I don’t know exactly where this program would be right now, but I know it would be in a far better place. That was the turning point in his tenure here. Absolutely.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:17 PM ^
Then he's pretty damned fragile, isn't he?
November 15th, 2020 at 3:44 PM ^
When you take the job and the salary:
“Business bad? **** you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? **** you, pay me. The place got hit by lightning, huh? **** you, pay me. Also, Paulie could do anything. Especially run up bills on the joint's credit. And why not? Nobody's gonna pay for it anyway. And as soon as the deliveries are made in the front door, you move the stuff out the back and sell it at a discount. You take a two hundred dollar case of booze and you sell it for a hundred. It doesn't matter. It's all profit. And then finally, when there's nothing left, when you can't borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match.”
November 15th, 2020 at 11:17 AM ^
I think the entire program is broken. I thought at the time, RichRod was a good hire, Hoke was a decent hire, and Harbaugh the perfect hire. Herbs literally was the best coach in the country available at the time. Quite frankly if he can’t get us there, nobody can.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:22 PM ^
I thought Rich was an awesome hire when it happened. I knew it would be a struggle - especially when all the players bolted after 2007.
However, despite his extensive shortcomings, the team was in an upward trajectory and got better every year. Even if they weren’t that competitive against the big boys of the conference, there was improvement.
I thought he deserved at least another year or two because he was showing improvement. However the plug was pulled and Hoke was hired.
I hated the Hoke hire from day 1 but that first season was magical.
I was hyped as hell about Harbaugh though. He was the best coach on the market and those first two seasons were great. Since 2017 Florida it’s been all downhill it feels. He is no longer the same coach in terms of luster, performance, and attitude/demeanor. Whatever it is, it’s ruined him as a coach, and it’s time for a new one.
I think you have to fire him - errr “part ways” - on Monday and install one of the assistants as HC. No matter what, recruiting is gonna be screwed up, so just start clearing out Harbaugh now.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
This is comical - we win 9 and 10 games regularly and the fanbase complains for a new offensive identity then when it stalls and has zero success - it smells of JH’s play-calling and the fans go nuts.
If JH were calling the plays, it would be ZC and HH both touching the ball 12-15 times a game which, to me, is the biggest head-scratcher for me.