How WR Recruiting is Shifting under Gattis
Thought this maizenbrew article was pretty interesting.
Think we will see even more of a shift next year when Gattis has a full two years to recruit a guy. I think Carr is probably going to grow into a TE. Not impressed at all with Watts. Martinez seems more like a RB. Henning and Hester look like the best of that bunch.
Yes those are the two highest rated guys.
Maizen putting stock into recruiting rankings, who would have thunk it?
As I noted in another post, this version of Maizen has been fairly civilized. Tolerable, really.
Two weeks and four days so far ... encouraging.
Give it time. Abusers always come around the next day and try to make themselves look normal.
They can’t help themselves over time though. The Maizen side will eventually come out.
Sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name,
And we all know that you're Maizen!
Whatever your name the people know,
Your comments are all the same,
You wanna be where everybody knows you're Maizen!
April 30th, 2019 at 10:34 PM ^
Xavier Watts looks very good to me (and Gattis and Notre Dame and Nebraska).
April 30th, 2019 at 11:47 PM ^
You seem to be pretty informed so I have a question for you. 247, if you click on the upper right-hand corner of the page, scroll down to FB recruiting, then to Targets, then scroll down to Maliq Carr, his profile has him listed as 6'6 230lbs. However, the weird part, is that if you click on his profile, it changes to 6'4 230lbs. When I watched his highlights, to me, it looks more like 6'6 than 6'4 on film. Do you, or anyone you may suggest, have insight here?
Thanks in advance.
So, at the most recent opening event he attended they listed him at 6’4 230, but I don’t think they take new height and weight at those. I think that he’s probably grown some since the 6’4 measurement was taken. He’s got a few inches on his mom, who looks to be 6’2ish (played basketball at OSU). I’d guess 6’5 to split the difference, but I think the difference between a true 6’4 and 6’6 is probably negligible on the field.
I think this make sense with what hes trying to accomplish by creating bad matchups for the defense by bringing in guys that can either run past or out jump, forcing the D to pick their poison on who they want to bracket/double. Also, Rashawn Williams recruitment was strange though- it seemed like all of the power schools fell off on him.
hmn...if we weren't looking for guys that were quite tall or extremely fast before, what were we looking for? Well-rounded athletes? Good hands?
Gattis has a track record here worth trusting with WR talent identification and development so all for whatever he's looking for here.
Well put.
I mean if now we're looking for tall, fast wide receivers with good hand what in the name of Anthony Carter were we looking for before? Short, fat, chain-smokers who couldn't catch an infectious disease if they were trapped in the bathroom at a Chinese airport?
I think you missed an important detail. Gattis seems to either target very tall OR very fast receivers, not guys who are a bit of both.
Why on earth would any coach worth half a darn not want both height and speed??
If you can get it, then you take it. If you're both, you're basically a 5* already and I don't think that anyone is going to turn down DPJ.
What this is saying is that you've got two different receiver positions. You have the tall outside receivers and the jitterbug inside receivers. The former is for stretching the field deep and giving you the jumpball ability. The latter is for taking advantage of space that is created underneath. If you think of these as two separate positions like WR vs. TE or slot vs. RB, then you can see why recruiting certain attributes at one position is important. With that said, a receiver who is both can then play in more than one position similar to a TE or RB splitting out.
So...
Very fast, short stubby guys work?
Very tall snails get the go-ahead nod?
... and who cares if they can catch a ball, we'll have Patterson throw it hard enough that he can impregnate their gut with a pigskin?
Yes, I think we were going for the guy who had a bit of both. We've had some great WR's but not just pure speed guys. It will be great to have some of those guys.
Well if true that's equally stupid IMO.
"Sorry son you're way too fast for as tall as you are. I mean if you were just a bit slower we could give you an offer but seeing as you're 6'3" you gotta slow down quite a bit. Now if you were just a bit shorter at that speed you'd be perfect.
We only want fast short guys or tall slow guys. Recruiting fast, tall guys is almost unfair"
I'm not sure if you're kidding but Usain Bolts don't come around every day and they're difficult to recruit...
Those fucking Chinese airports...
When I think of fast WRs, I think of OSU. We haven't been able to match that WR speed. Crawford was an example of a WR who was neither particularly fast or tall. Same with Branham despite the self hype on speed.
April 30th, 2019 at 10:23 PM ^
Plus he couldn't actually catch a football.
April 30th, 2019 at 11:48 PM ^
I wouldn't say Crawford couldn't catch a football. I don't remember him dropping a single ball that hit him right in the hands, in stride, with no defender in the vicinity to defend it. Just don't ask him to make a play on the ball.
Hands were not his strong suit (whatever his strong suit might be).
Plus he looked completely lost trying to adjust to the ball in the air.
You're right-I can't remember him dropping a single one that hit him in the hands, in stride, with no defenders in sight, in a B1G road game, at night.
I mean besides being really tall or really fast, there's guys who aren't super tall or fast, but have good hands or are super crisp route runners
Perhaps our new motto is "Just ok is not ok" like the AT&T commercial?
Bummer! Was hoping the shift would be toward short, overweight guys in their forties. I still have some eligibility left and am just looking for that chance.
Carr looks like a beast and apparently Gattis has made an impression on him already. And don't forget we have Cornelius Johnson and Kent coming in this summer. That position group looks really strong. In fact all of the groups on offense look strong into the future. If they really light up the scoreboard this fall the recruits will continue to come.
I'll admit I'm worried what WR will look like in 2020 if DPJ, Black, and Collins all leave after this year. Cornelius Johnson will be a nice piece on the outside but who else will? The 2016 WR class was a complete washout. In 2018 they only took Bell, who is basically Grant Perry. Giles Jackson will be an exciting player in the slot but the other 3 kids come in with major question marks (and all of them are tiny). I'm not buying the hype on Sainristil yet until I see it in games. After hearing loads of it for Chris Evans and Dwumfour the past few seasons, I need to see it to believe it.
Yes Sainristil wasn’t ranked very highly - we should be skeptical particularly after what a flop Evans turned out to be as a Frosh after being hyped at camp.
A few questions:
Do you lean 247 or Rivals when relying on ratings?
If a player is highly rated by the service you prefer - do you still like him even if he is just a 3-star in the composite?
(Feel like Agent Starling when she was interviewing Lechter...)
I think 247 has the best ratings but they definitely change a lot more than Rivals and ESPN throughout the year. I think ESPN is probably 2nd best and do a better job than people think. With the proliferation of camps, combines, 7v7, hudl, all star games, and recruiting coverage the rankings are getting more accurate than ever. Saw this tweet from Barton Simmons today and it's pretty astounding.
Of the 254 players that were drafted over the weekend, 121 (48%) of them were ranked by at least one of the big three recruiting sites as a 4star or better coming out of HS. If you remove small college players and walk-ons (that aren't evaluated), that number jumps up to 54%.
— Barton Simmons (@bartonsimmons) April 30, 2019
If you didn't kill him, then who did sir?
Why wouldn't you count small college players and walk-ons? Only because they disprove your theory.
Huh?
April 30th, 2019 at 10:00 PM ^
6% of NFL draftees were never even ranked.
The majority of them were ranked outside the top 350.
Their "hit rate" on 4&5 stars is 34%.
But, by all means, disparage a high school player's chance of being a great college player at your university because they are only ranked #1000 in a system that is wrong 75% of the time.
Lies, damn lies, statistics and ........recruiting rankings!
I think Sainristil's ranking had more to do with him being out of MA and not going to very many camps. His senior year showed a great deal of improvement, but the idea was still that it would take time for him to make a huge impact. His performance in spring has been a surprise for sure.
I would lean 247 because they do their due diligence of seeing most players, while Rivals only really changes rankings if kids play at Rivals sponsored events. Even if they are rated highly in composite, if 247 rates them low, I will temper my expectations on the player.
247 rankings are more trustworthy, and that’s not even counting the imaginary ghost player that Rivals ranked.
Don't sleep on Kent. Could be another (cough) Desmond Howard (cough).
That's pretty high praise. I don't see Kent making an impact this year (depth at WR is crazy) so more than anything, I want him to get strong and fill out this year so that when he does get on the field, he can make a serious impact.
You don't have to believe the hype about Sainristil, just look at the clips of practice and the spring game where he is running great routes, getting separation, and making an easy catch because of it. He's already shown himself to be an artisan with short crossing routes Gattis is using a lot of this year. Will he see the field a lot this year? No. He is still a freshman. Will he be a great slot receiver down the road? I think so.
Also, what makes you believe Ronnie Bell is Grant Perry? Ronnie has been playing on the outside a lot already whereas Grant was always a slot receiver. Also he had that great touchdown catch last year where he caught a deep ball from McCaffrey and juked the defender for an easy score. I don't remember Grant Perry making sideline catches and juking defenders out of their shoes for big gains.
Some evidence of their ability:
Ronnie Bell catches a crossing route and breaks several tackles on his way to the endzone in the spring game this year: https://twitter.com/UMichFootball/status/1117187641110343685
Sainristil practice clip: https://twitter.com/Coach_Gattis/status/1112853457994702848
Based on what I've seen Bell will probably be a productive player but it's obvious to me he's a clear step down in talent from the current guys like Black, Collins, and DPJ and past UM WR's like Manningham, Arrington, Avant, Breaston, Edwards, Walker, Terrell, Bass, etc. The depth at his position next year has the potential to be scarily thin so he'll be on the field and find ways to be productive, but I don't see a future NFL draft pick when I watch him.
What have you seen that suggests to you that he is a clear step down in talent and won't be a future NFL draft pick? His numbers were comparable to DPJ's freshman year. You also brought up Manningham but he has the same height and weight as Bell only he had better stats than DPJ with Chad Henne throwing him the ball.
8 catches, 145 yards, 2 TDs - Bell
22 catches, 227 yards, 0 TDs - DPJ
27 catches, 433 yards, 6 TDs - Mario
He is not the athletic freak that DPJ is but very few are. Doug Baldwin, Russel Wilson's primary receiver for the last 3 years, is shorter than Bell and has about the same weight. The only question is Bell's speed as he has never been timed in a 40 yard dash. Also Mario Manningham ran a 4.59 40. DPJ could run that with cement shoes and I bet Bell wouldn't be too far off either.
There are plenty of receivers in the NFL with Bell's measurables or less. Deebo Samuel, Marquise Brown, Mecole Hardeman, and Paris Campbell (all drafted this year) were all shorter than Bell with more or sometimes A LOT less weight on their frames that Bell has not had the opportunity to gain as of yet.
Time will tell how good Ronnie Bell will become. I think it is unfair to write him off without giving specific reasons as to why, specific instances where his supposed lack of athleticism let him down. Again, what have you seen as evidence of what you suggest?
Manningham was much faster than that one bad 40 time in the combine, and he was also an elite route runner with elite hands and ability to adjust to a ball in the air. It's not really fair to compare any M receiver to Manningham right now, he was on another level.
Appreciate the discussion but I'm really not looking for a debate merely stating an opinion. Also too many ways to list that those WR's you mentioned are different. As a slight aside I read all about how great Higdon was this year from UM fans when my eyes were telling me he missed a lot of holes and went down too easily on first contact. Looking at his stats you would never know that. He went undrafted. Some UM fans can continue to overrate the talent on the roster as it's a time honored tradition in this fan base but I'll trust my own eyeballs. Feel free to disagree however.
April 30th, 2019 at 10:26 PM ^
Can't even respond to a thoughtful post rebutting his points without being insulting. He doesn't operate in good faith, which is why Seth called him a troll and nothing he says should tried to be discussed. The narcissism is too overpowering.
April 30th, 2019 at 10:54 PM ^
Says the guy whose entire posting history is nothing but insults and accusations directed at me. https://mgoblog.com/users/michwolv95-0
Dear stan, get some help, please.
Intolerance paradox, bud. But thanks for admitting yourself that you're the same person as all of the other accounts.
I didn't admit anything you obsessed loser. But I take comfort in the fact my presence here makes you miserable.