Question for MGoCoaches: Why doesn't the offense run more 11 personnel?
After reflecting on Saturday's game, and the season as a whole, I got to thinking of next year and how would this offense use it's best players to get them on the field more. My immediate thought was how to keep DPJ, Nico, and Tarik on the field as much as possible. Seems like 11 personnel would solve that.
Looking at the numbers from 2017, 11 personnel was used on average 58% of the time in the NFL, an increase of 20% over the past 10 years. The Rams were highest at 80%.
Glancing at the UFR's and giving the eyeball test, it seems Michigan used 11 personnel roughly 30-40% of the time, and that's a safe assumption on the high end.
I'm wondering if any MGoCoaches out there have opinions of why the offense doesn't use this personnel grouping as much or if they think it would help or hurt the offense moving forward.
December 31st, 2018 at 11:07 AM ^
Because McKeon is too valuable to keep on the sideline!!!
/s
December 31st, 2018 at 11:08 AM ^
McKeon and Gentry had some really bad drops this year.
December 31st, 2018 at 4:26 PM ^
True, but I got the impression that Gentry was a very solid contributor until the OSU game. He just had one hideous game at the worst possible time.
December 31st, 2018 at 5:22 PM ^
....well, maybe pass the ball more to our WR corp and let the TEs block!!!
December 31st, 2018 at 11:10 AM ^
Eubanks should be the starter at TE next year. I've seen enough of gentry and mckeon.
December 31st, 2018 at 11:17 AM ^
They’ve all had their moments. Not knocking any of them.
December 31st, 2018 at 11:57 AM ^
Like it or not, Eubanks isn't a great blocker. He pops open in the pass game pretty often because a) he's a good athlete and b) they rarely throw the ball to him, so defenses are concentrating on Gentry/McKeon.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:23 PM ^
None of those three have looked like good blockers
December 31st, 2018 at 2:15 PM ^
Gentry isn't bad. He's not great at it, but combined with his other skills, he's our best all 'round option at TE if we're talking 11 personnel.
Edit: now I'm rethinking that. Maybe he isn't the best for 11 personnel. Sure would be nice to have Ty Wheatley Jr for his Sr season...
December 31st, 2018 at 3:29 PM ^
December 31st, 2018 at 11:22 AM ^
There is no meritocracy if Mckeon sees the field over Muhammad and Eubanks next year.
December 31st, 2018 at 11:26 AM ^
unless you're attending practice, how would you have any idea who is working harder to earn playing time? Meritocracy, merit based..... Muhammad, who hasn't suited up yet, is worthy of more playing time than a kid that that the coaches have worked with for a couple seasons?
DOH!
December 31st, 2018 at 11:43 AM ^
Maybe I’ve got Allen Iverson disease but who the fuck cares about practice? Why does practice matter when we’ve got tons of game film of Mckeon and Gentry blowing huge plays in games. Meritocracy to me is that there are consequences for choking in the game.
December 31st, 2018 at 11:56 AM ^
Completely agree, Tai. The young guys need game tape to see how they actually respond when the adrenaline’s flowing 100%. Practice players just aren’t the same. Joe Bolden, anyone?
December 31st, 2018 at 3:31 PM ^
I was this way in HS. Drove the coaches mad. I would be bad in practice, but earned a starter role through my game play
December 31st, 2018 at 4:45 PM ^
Agree, practice only counts for so much. You have to perform when the lights are on!
December 31st, 2018 at 11:58 AM ^
This is the worst, most entitled attitude I've ever seen. Iverson was a punk, who never won anything. He had all the talent in the world but he ego deemed him above the mundane hard work that is what separates the greats from the big talkers. While Bird, Magic, Kareem, Jordan, worked harder than anyone in practice, Iverson balked at it.
Practice matters because hard work matters. Yes, results in the game matter as well, and you're right, the TE made some horribly untimely drops. Every great coach in any sport has always emphasized the importance of hard work in practice.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^
The Cavs rarely practiced last year and they made the finals. So is LeBron not great because he didn’t practice regularly during the season? For the “try-hard” guys practice is important. However, talent trumps all and how you perform in games holds a lot more weight.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:22 PM ^
Iverson took a team of scrubs and himself to the finals. Maybe he didn't work as hard as those guys but to think he had a overall team of similar potential is wrong.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:00 PM ^
Not a fan of the "Iverson-didn't'-work-hard" trope. Iverson made a comment about practice not being more important than his friend dying the day before and suddenly he's never worked for anything in his life? Garbage. Dude was better than most because he worked as hard if not harder than most.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:17 PM ^
In the Iverson documentary he talks about how his practice rant is completely taken out of context. As you mentioned, his friend was murdered the day before and all the press wanted to talk about was practice. He was grieving and pissed. Dude gave his all for Philly. Absolutely one of my all time favorite players.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:22 PM ^
I stand corrected then, I didn't realize that Iverson's quote was taken out of context. However, TaiStreets and I BOTH took it out of context. So, my comment to him is still stands because he thought, like me, that Iverson was simply dissing on practice.
December 31st, 2018 at 2:59 PM ^
I'm calling bullshit, Dizzy. His friend was murdered seven months before his rant. Most people claim Iverson was drunk at the time he went before the media.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:53 PM ^
Anyone who thinks that Iverson didn't practice his ass off--and for most of his basketball life--is ridiculously naive. The fact that some of the very best players, who toil so hard in games, are allowed to sit out some practices just INCENSES a certain kind of fan. It's pretty much the same kind of fan (undoubtedly brilliant at what they do, fit as hell, undoubtedly at the very top of their own professions) who sits here and calls our players p*ssies by the hour and questions, in the most reductive terms, the strategies and play-calling of coaches who have spent their lives mounting the enormously competitive heap to reach the top of their professions.
The motivation? Might be jealousy.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:37 PM ^
Because we also have game film of McKeon and Gentry making plays too. There is absolutely zero film of Muhammed doing so. Muhammed will have to prove he is better than them by playing well in practice and on Saturdays just like everyone else.
December 31st, 2018 at 3:50 PM ^
reward players who slouch in practice over players who bust their ass, that's good fro the team.
December 31st, 2018 at 4:55 PM ^
I'm with ya about practice, but clearly Harbaugh cares about practice performance.
December 31st, 2018 at 5:35 PM ^
Working hard is great but if you not better than the guy behind you, unless he isn't working or practicing at all, the more talented/skilled players needs to play.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:29 PM ^
I haven't been on the board much since the bowl game and the fact that this post has a lot of up votes shows me I should keep things at a minimum.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:37 PM ^
I'm not sure which post you are replying to given the mess that is this board, but same here based on about 5 of the above posts.
Muhammed missed the whole regular season with a HS injury YET he apparently should have been starting over McKeon and Gentry instead of rehabbing.
December 31st, 2018 at 2:38 PM ^
I said NEXT YEAR.
Muhammad was a top 5 TE coming out of high school. The highest rated TE recruited by Harbaugh so far.
He should be replacing Mckeon with ease when healthy based on sheer talent alone.
Eubanks is an athletic freak and should be getting way more touches even if he and Gentry both suck at blocking.
Ask Charles Woodson who mentioned Eubanks and DPJ being underutilized.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:35 PM ^
We can't play manball with 11 personnel.. where would my fullback go?
December 31st, 2018 at 11:07 AM ^
Buddy, its something we've all been asking ourselves.
December 31st, 2018 at 11:13 AM ^
Because Harbaugh is stubborn and stuck in 1985. Michigan is the only school that refuses to put it’s best playmakers (DPJ, Nico, Black) on the field at the same time more than 10% of the time. It’s why there have been thousands of comments complaining about the offense.
December 31st, 2018 at 11:15 AM ^
Bingo.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^
I've refrained from sharing my observations of Nov. 24 for.....obvious reasons. But one observation I made that day is that (in addition to knowing Black is a really good receiver, and DPJ is a threat everytime he touches the ball) I was really impressed with Nico Collins. I remember thinking to myself multiple times regarding Nico: "That's a good receiver!"
Thought the same thing myself...how threatening could the offense be with all 3 of them on the field instead of those blocky/catchy types that often have trouble either blocking and/or catching.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
Thanks for coming on here and offering a reasonable perspective, BuckeyeChuck.
seriously.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:58 PM ^
chuck, given that you would undoubtedly present it in a gracious manner, i for one wouldn't mind seeing/hearing your observations about that 11/24 michigan meltdown in columbus. over a month has passed, i think we can handle it. if you feel up to it, shoot away.
December 31st, 2018 at 3:13 PM ^
Well, seems he already gave you his opinion of the offense.
If his opinion of the defense was anything other than "why do they keep running the same thing and trusting Watson to stick with these guys?" or "I'm surprised Gary, Winovich and Co. aren't getting more pressure" than yes, I too would be interested to hear anything further.
January 1st, 2019 at 4:39 PM ^
Thanks, Xtra...
My 2 primary observations of Michigan's defense were:
1. Why do they keep trying to use Watson to cover the crossing routes?
2. I'm surprised Gary, Winovich & Co. aren't getting more pressure.
Seriously, I was very surprised Don Brown didn't have more. I had offered some ideas on this board about how OSU can try to slow down that evil wizard by giving him more to think about, not thinking that OSU's standard offense would be able to do anything consistently. Turns out OSU came out of the film room licking their chops at what they could do against M's defense. Even when OSU scored to make 21 points, I expected halftime adjustments from M's defense and envisioned OSU getting no more than 1 or 2 field goals in the second half. It was jaw dropping that Michigan never shut it down.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:14 PM ^
It amazed me how often one of our top receivers was on the sideline during the bowl game.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:51 PM ^
I was listening to the radio broadcast. Dierdorf said that same thing again and again, and Brandy echoed that sentiment.
I don't believe I've ever heard Michigan radio announcers so down throughout a game like they were.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:30 PM ^
^^^This. Dierdorf especially sounded like a man who wanted to shout things like "What the hell are they doing?", but instead had to couch his comments in polite terms.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:43 PM ^
Ding ding. After black was in the lineup, I don’t recall a 4 wide formation of DPJ-Evans, perry or Martin-Black-Collins once spreading out the field. To me that should be used once every 3 to 4 plays at minimum if not as our base set. But no, let’s put a FB on the field which will never pop a big play and use in-line tight ends that can’t block. Genius.
December 31st, 2018 at 4:30 PM ^
You guys ever stop to think the guy running the passing game might not know how to do that?
December 31st, 2018 at 6:18 PM ^
Who hired the guy allegedly running the passing game?
December 31st, 2018 at 8:08 PM ^
The guy that hired Ed Warinner and Jim McElwain.
Don't try it with me.
December 31st, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
Our offense literally looks nothing like what we ran in 1985.
December 31st, 2018 at 4:27 PM ^
Was the offense stuck in 1985 in 2016 when Michigan lead the BIG10 in scoring?
Maybe you should be blaming someone else, not Jim Harbaugh.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:23 PM ^
Asking ourselves? This has been the number one asked question on this board for a couple years running re: the offense. At least, this has been what many of us have been harping on for years.
Harbaugh has a massive problem with his offensive recruiting and philosophy, and that's why this offense has ranged from mediocre at best to TERRIBLE at worst.
I keep bringing up these numbers:
In the three recruiting classes since 2016 (Harbaugh's three full classes): M has recruited 5 (!!) TEs and 3 fullbacks (counting Kingston Davis) for a total of 8 (!!) blocky catchy types and only 10 (!!) TOTAL OL. They did not convert a single one of those TEs to OL.
When you need 5 OL on the field at any given time, and really you should only have an average of 1 TE on the field at any given time, you should be giving scholarships at a 5:1 ratio or at worst 4:1.
That's not even to mention the FBs which are on the field for about 10 plays a game and all due respect to Ben Mason, FB is absolutely not a position that makes a difference enough to even waste a scholarship on. Get a walk-on footbawwww player to take those 5-10 snaps and you lose nothing.
When Michigan, with a "good" FB and The Big Big Boys in the interior line, couldn't pick up a first down on 3rd and short up the middle and then 4th and short up the middle, that was the sequence that should have finally, mercifully killed this crap hybrid of an offense.
Then the TEs are dropping catchable balls all over the place (like they have all year).
Meanwhile, Florida is picking up 4th and short with QB sneaks (a very high percentage play that doesn't require a wasted scholarship a FB - just f'ing do that) and jet sweeps that not only pick up the first down but spring for big plays - hey, look what happens when you do something the defense doesn't know you're going to do!
Hell, I watched Alabama run shotgun spread from third and fourth and short later in the day.
Harbaugh needs to swallow his pride, hire a good OC to run a modern spread offense and let go of the wheel. Should have done it two years ago.