So we are going to have 18 year old multi-millionaires on a college campus? Playing with teammates who are still poor college students. Agents hunting 15 year old kids and negotiating deals with Universities before their client will sign a LOI? Surely nothing can go wrong.
I know that people think this will benefit UofM ultimately. I am not so sure. This is going to be seedy and gross and UofM has a history of trying to stay above this sort of thing. They will not push it to the limits that other schools will push it. A lot of these kids don't want to play school as things stand now. Are they going to be more or less motivated to play school when they have a million dollars in their bank account? Is UofM going to require them to attend classes? Because some schools won't.
I don’t think he should be called “Rocket” Watts if he is going to play this poorly. His real name is Mark Watts and he is playing much more like a “Mark” than a “Rocket”.
I disagree with Seth’s paragraph talking about pumping the brakes on Milton because he had easy reads. I’m kind of hoping that this is the offense. One thing about UofM’s offense the last couple of years is that even when it was going good it looked like they were working really fucking hard. Saturday night looked easy. They scored 42 points and didn’t do anything spectacular. This is what you see other offenses do around the country and I always wondered why it was so hard for UofM. So to me, I hope all of Joe’s games are just like that because it is by design.
But doesn’t he have the right to be a white nationalist? To the degree he is not violating the law he should have the right to any ideology he wants. It is disgusting to you. Maybe this is what he believes. Maybe he is doing it for attention. But he has a right to his own thoughts and our society and laws say that he has a right to express those thoughts. Out of context it is a tasteless joke. Like the people who told the “head and shoulders” joke way back when the space shuttle exploded. It’s insensitive and stupid. But this would be a horrible precedent to set. Are we going to have the football team running each school? Whatever the team disagrees with has to go or they all quit? This country has lost its mind.
So on a routine traffic stop it is discovered that the driver has a felony warrant. Now what? What if the driver is armed? Have people lost their minds?
She has closed my business. She is actively preventing me from earning a living. So she is exercising absolute power over me. I have a small office (In terms of number of people not size) and we can operate practicing social distancing. We are closed. But I can go to the liquor store (which has far more people come through daily and is going to be more congested) and buy a pint of alcohol. The order is inconsistent, arbitrary and capricious.
This is the problem with our country. You are making broad generalizations about a lot of people. I am not a trump supporter. I find him to be an idiot and I am embarrassed that he represents this country. I don't identify with either political party. The frothing mouth breathers you refer to are most likely just normal, hard working people. Maybe they vote a certain way because they believe very strongly in a single issue, but I bet they are mostly decent people. We have allowed ourselves to be divided when I bet that we aren't that different from each other. Let's stop widening the division with hateful generalizations and try to find more common ground.
Just the really essential work like the local liquor store. My biggest problem is how arbitrary the shut down rule is as to what is essential. It certainly seems politically driven. A person can go buy a pint of vodka, but they can't go to their attorney and have their will drawn up?
I believe you have this backwards regarding Ed Martin. He was using players to launder money he made illegally. He wasn't making money illegally so that he could pay players. And he wasn't paying players to go to Michigan. He had access to players that attended Michigan and/or were from the Detroit area. He used the players to launder money.
It's funny, my brother was just running through this scenario listing the 7-9 things needed for UM to make the playoffs. My response was that I have been a UM fan for 40 years and I don't remember 7-9 things going their way in that 40 year stretch combined, let alone all of them happening in the next couple of weeks. I remember 2006 when UM needed 7-9 things to go wrong in order for them to be left out and sure enough those things all happened, but not 7 things going UM's way. I did appreciate his optimism though.
Can confirm Josh Christopher was there. He seemed to have a good time. He ran over and took a video with the Maize Rage when they called for him. He stayed to the end and celebrated when CJ hit his three. Took tons of pictures with fans.
What I noticed as a golfer is that he was playing a tight draw as opposed to the loose cut he had previously. I hope it is something that they consciously worked on. A tight draw would serve him well. I know there is always a danger that a draw can turn into a hook, but man his kicks looked nice. He can just start the ball at the right upright and let that little 5 yard draw turn in there.
I felt better after looking at the box score. Of the 17 turnovers, 11 of them were Z and Livers. I doubt that they will have another game all year where they combine for 11 turnovers.
I'm not sure I agree that it is technically sarcasm in the true sarcasm sense. I think it is more done to mock a certain thought or statement. So when he says "SeVeN MiLlIoN DoLlArS To FiNiSh ThIrD", he isn't saying that sarcastically, he is mocking the people who come on here and constantly throw that statement around.
The ball movement looked fantastic at times. It seemed to me that when ASU came out in man that UM had a nice inside/out game that ran through Teske. Then when ASU switched to zone, UM destroyed it with beautiful ball movement. Then when ASU went back to man, Teske looked gassed and they weren't able to get the same inside/out game going. Things then broke down as UM doesn't really have a guy to create off the dribble other than Simpson and he struggled. Couple that with some sloppy play and a little bit of a cold shooting stretch and you get a 32-6 run. I think Simpson will ultimately be a good creator off the dribble and hopefully Wagner can fill that role as well. I certainly saw flashes of a really good offense.
But doesn't it all come back to coaching? Isn't this what separates good coaches from everyone else? They can beat yours with theirs, and they can beat theirs with yours. I really thought this was what we were getting with Harbaugh. If the Oline is struggling in pass pro, then game plan for it. Run plays that get the ball out fast. There just doesn't seem to be an opponent specific game plan week to week. There never seems to be a counter to what the opponent is doing. Far less talented teams are making offensive football look very easy. Michigan always seems to add a degree of difficulty to everything it does. It's maddening.
Please don't take offense. The question has more to do with how people move the goalposts on Harbaugh. It really isn't a reflection on Iowa or questioning Iowa's importance. I think the OP is just saying we should determine whether the game is important beforehand and then stick with that decision.
I could not agree more with this. To the point that I almost wish Michigan and like minded schools found a way to still field teams made up of student athletes and avoid being a part of what is to come. I admittedly haven't read the bill and am not aware of any constraints or controls that may be built in, but this seems really easy to exploit. I am also aware of UM's position in the world and realize that UM may thrive in an environment where they can take advantage of the prestige and influence they have. I just am not nearly as excited as most to hear that college football may be on its deathbed.
I wonder if the girl's basketball numbers have to do with the way that girl's basketball is officiated. The officials have no respect for the girls or their abilities. They let the games turn in to wrestling matches. It is ridiculous. The games become brutal and are miserable to play in.
Did you ever once get the feeling that UM won a game because of Carr's coaching? They had more talent than basically every team they played and often won in spite of Lloyd's horribly conservative approach. I could name 10 games that were lost because of Lloyd's playing not to lose philosophy or his stubborn desire to "establish the run" despite the other team selling out to stop the run. Thus allowing weaker teams to hang around and steal games.
I was just thinking that as I read the mailbag. We went from other coaches saying that we were impossible to prepare for because of all the formations and wrinkles, to South Carolina players saying they could call every we play we ran in advance. I don't understand what happened. This was one of the main things that I thought Harbaugh would bring. More of an NFL weekly game plan that was specific to that week's opponent and matchups.
I think I felt this gravity the most at the Oregon game after the "Horror". I distinctly remember feeling the thing you just described. Not specifically the solar system analogy, but in today's words, that Michigan was too big to fail. The Appy State game happened and the next week, everyone still showed up. All of the familiar faces were in our section. The band still took the field. The players still touched the banner. And I remember thinking, everything was going to be okay.
This is always the argument. Too vast of a conspiracy. Too many people knew. Why hasn't anyone talked? The interesting thing is that lots of people have come forward and talked. They have just been silenced, ignored or not believed. Lot's of evidence points towards conspiracy, but it is ignored or dismissed. Here's a quick example: FBI field agents report to Hoover saying that they listened to a recording of Oswald's call to the Russian Embassy in Mexico City. The problem is that the voice isn't Oswald's. The next thing you know there is a report that says there was no recording and only contains a transcript of the call. Problem solved.
Also, of all the books that support the lone gunman theory, Case Closed isn't the one I would endorse if I were you. Posner is a shill.
His use of the word "patsy" has always struck me. Why use that word? It has such a specific meaning. I think he was involved. Not sure if he pulled a trigger. Definitely don't think he acted alone.
Whew! I'm glad you have put this issue to bed. It has been driving me crazy.
You sound like your late 1960's counterpart when it was first suggested that the CIA and Mafia worked together against Castro. You know what everyone said, "that is speculative crazy talk". Guess what? It ended up being true.
I'm not sure how many times it has to come out that the government isn't being completely forthright before people understand that the government isn't completely forthright. Maybe they are doing the dirty work for us while allowing us citizens the plausible deniability of not knowing all that they do. Maybe in some circumstances they really have to be discreet for "national security reasons". Maybe they are doing what's best for the country and don't want our "virtues" to get in the way. Maybe they are sadistic bastards. I don't know. But I don't think blindly accepting the official story every time something happens is the way to go. I have a healthy skepticism and like to take a look at the facts for myself.
I could not have agreed more with this until I read Bugliosi's book. He really does a good job of picking this theory apart. I still believe that Ruby was involved in a larger plot, but boy does that book make you think really hard about it.
Yeah, I see that is unclear now. I should have said that the perception to some, including people within the government, was that he was soft on communism. His actual record in that regard certainly would be subject to debate.
I’m not suggesting he was or wasn’t soft. My understanding is that the hawks within our government thought he was soft. I’m not sure I have ever heard the Russian perspective on this, but I suspect that they thought they would be better off with JFK as President rather than an unknown replacement. It just seems unlikely to me that the Russians would be incentivized to go after him. Unless you believe they they just wanted to create chaos within the US.
I thought Bugliosi's book made a better case for the lone gunman theory. I thought Posner was dishonest in his book and his reliance on the computer models undermined his conclusions.
I think you have to look at the assassination in greater context. What has happened since? One thing I always find interesting in these discussions is the Cuba/Russia question. To blame Cuba/Russia is counter-intuitive. The knock on Kennedy was that he was soft on communism. Bay of Pigs, cutting a deal during the Cuban Missile Crisis. So who has more incentive to assassinate, communists or hawks within our own government?
I also think that the Robert Kennedy assassination tends to point towards conspiracy regarding JFK. The RFK assassination is easier to question because the forensics aren't even close. Forensics say he was shot at basically contact range behind his ear. The shooter was never closer than 18 inches and was always in front of him.
For me there is too much to question. I don't believe the lone gunman theory.
I'm with you on 9/11, but the problem is that the way in which the buildings fell violate all laws of physics. You could do experiment after experiment and could never re-create that result. So that always makes me question things.
Here you go. Since you asked a ridiculously personal question, I will give you an answer that fits for me. We ski (This is 5 minutes from Boyne Mountain), we golf (Boyne golf courses across the street) and we like to do watersports (On Deer Lake which is decent). there are only three of us so two bedrooms is plenty. I hope you have exactly the same wants and needs as me so that this is helpful.
Maybe I don't know the Fab 5 story as well as I think I do. If you have different information feel free to correct me. But I don't believe there is anything that suggests Fab 5 members were paid to come to Michigan. I have never seen anything to suggest that any one of the Fab 5 members received money from Ed Martin other than Chris Webber mainly and Jalen Rose on a much smaller scale. Ed Martin is someone that had little to no ties to Michigan. He was a Detroit guy that made his money illegally. He helped some of the local Detroit kids out with money here and there. He used some Michigan players to launder money where he would loan the family money and then get paid back when they went to the NBA. The only Fab 5 guy that took any large sum of money from Ed Martin was Chris Webber. And that was after he had committed to Michigan. Jalen testified that he received small amounts of money from Ed Martin, but that it was no different than the money that Ed had always given local Detroit kids. And that the money was not tied to him attending Michigan. Now whether the Ed Martin money was used to lure future recruits like Bullock, Traylor, Mo Taylor I'm not sure. I also don't know how much the coaching staff knew though I have heard that Dutcher was very dirty. If you read Jalen Rose's testimony he lays it out pretty well. Webber got in trouble because he lied during his testimony for some reason. I don't believe what he did was illegal, only an NCAA violation. So there was no reason to lie as he had already moved on to the NBA.
This was a long winded way of saying I disagree that the Fab 5 was responsible for Michigan's issues. And certainly none of it has ever been laid at Juwan Howard's feet. I have never seen anything to suggest that he received anything. So to say he was the least culpable suggests that he was culpable at all and I haven't ever seen anything that suggests he was.
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And thus the death of college football.
So we are going to have 18 year old multi-millionaires on a college campus? Playing with teammates who are still poor college students. Agents hunting 15 year old kids and negotiating deals with Universities before their client will sign a LOI? Surely nothing can go wrong.
I know that people think this will benefit UofM ultimately. I am not so sure. This is going to be seedy and gross and UofM has a history of trying to stay above this sort of thing. They will not push it to the limits that other schools will push it. A lot of these kids don't want to play school as things stand now. Are they going to be more or less motivated to play school when they have a million dollars in their bank account? Is UofM going to require them to attend classes? Because some schools won't.
I just think this is going to be a disaster.
I don’t think he should be called “Rocket” Watts if he is going to play this poorly. His real name is Mark Watts and he is playing much more like a “Mark” than a “Rocket”.
I disagree with Seth’s paragraph talking about pumping the brakes on Milton because he had easy reads. I’m kind of hoping that this is the offense. One thing about UofM’s offense the last couple of years is that even when it was going good it looked like they were working really fucking hard. Saturday night looked easy. They scored 42 points and didn’t do anything spectacular. This is what you see other offenses do around the country and I always wondered why it was so hard for UofM. So to me, I hope all of Joe’s games are just like that because it is by design.
But doesn’t he have the right to be a white nationalist? To the degree he is not violating the law he should have the right to any ideology he wants. It is disgusting to you. Maybe this is what he believes. Maybe he is doing it for attention. But he has a right to his own thoughts and our society and laws say that he has a right to express those thoughts. Out of context it is a tasteless joke. Like the people who told the “head and shoulders” joke way back when the space shuttle exploded. It’s insensitive and stupid. But this would be a horrible precedent to set. Are we going to have the football team running each school? Whatever the team disagrees with has to go or they all quit? This country has lost its mind.
So on a routine traffic stop it is discovered that the driver has a felony warrant. Now what? What if the driver is armed? Have people lost their minds?
And you know they/we are white how?
Bullshit. I dislike Dabo as much as anyone, but this is bullshit. If anything, he is saying he doesn’t want to hear the word.
She has closed my business. She is actively preventing me from earning a living. So she is exercising absolute power over me. I have a small office (In terms of number of people not size) and we can operate practicing social distancing. We are closed. But I can go to the liquor store (which has far more people come through daily and is going to be more congested) and buy a pint of alcohol. The order is inconsistent, arbitrary and capricious.
This is the problem with our country. You are making broad generalizations about a lot of people. I am not a trump supporter. I find him to be an idiot and I am embarrassed that he represents this country. I don't identify with either political party. The frothing mouth breathers you refer to are most likely just normal, hard working people. Maybe they vote a certain way because they believe very strongly in a single issue, but I bet they are mostly decent people. We have allowed ourselves to be divided when I bet that we aren't that different from each other. Let's stop widening the division with hateful generalizations and try to find more common ground.
Just the really essential work like the local liquor store. My biggest problem is how arbitrary the shut down rule is as to what is essential. It certainly seems politically driven. A person can go buy a pint of vodka, but they can't go to their attorney and have their will drawn up?
Does anyone have a link to a stream of the game?
Does anyone have a link to a stream of the game?
I believe you have this backwards regarding Ed Martin. He was using players to launder money he made illegally. He wasn't making money illegally so that he could pay players. And he wasn't paying players to go to Michigan. He had access to players that attended Michigan and/or were from the Detroit area. He used the players to launder money.
I blame Tupac.
I disagree that his game is deserving of respect. He relies heavily on getting away with offensive fouls and travelling.
The only bright spot is this is the last meaningful football game I have to watch Josh Metellus play.
It's funny, my brother was just running through this scenario listing the 7-9 things needed for UM to make the playoffs. My response was that I have been a UM fan for 40 years and I don't remember 7-9 things going their way in that 40 year stretch combined, let alone all of them happening in the next couple of weeks. I remember 2006 when UM needed 7-9 things to go wrong in order for them to be left out and sure enough those things all happened, but not 7 things going UM's way. I did appreciate his optimism though.
Can confirm Josh Christopher was there. He seemed to have a good time. He ran over and took a video with the Maize Rage when they called for him. He stayed to the end and celebrated when CJ hit his three. Took tons of pictures with fans.
What I noticed as a golfer is that he was playing a tight draw as opposed to the loose cut he had previously. I hope it is something that they consciously worked on. A tight draw would serve him well. I know there is always a danger that a draw can turn into a hook, but man his kicks looked nice. He can just start the ball at the right upright and let that little 5 yard draw turn in there.
The one thing you definitely cannot call the 2005 season is dull. Nearly every game went down to the last play.
Grizzly Adams did have a beard....
I felt better after looking at the box score. Of the 17 turnovers, 11 of them were Z and Livers. I doubt that they will have another game all year where they combine for 11 turnovers.
I'm not sure I agree that it is technically sarcasm in the true sarcasm sense. I think it is more done to mock a certain thought or statement. So when he says "SeVeN MiLlIoN DoLlArS To FiNiSh ThIrD", he isn't saying that sarcastically, he is mocking the people who come on here and constantly throw that statement around.
I believe Penn State. I think a three way tie-breaker is the record against each other. PSU would be 2-0, UM 1-1 and OSU 0-2.
The ball movement looked fantastic at times. It seemed to me that when ASU came out in man that UM had a nice inside/out game that ran through Teske. Then when ASU switched to zone, UM destroyed it with beautiful ball movement. Then when ASU went back to man, Teske looked gassed and they weren't able to get the same inside/out game going. Things then broke down as UM doesn't really have a guy to create off the dribble other than Simpson and he struggled. Couple that with some sloppy play and a little bit of a cold shooting stretch and you get a 32-6 run. I think Simpson will ultimately be a good creator off the dribble and hopefully Wagner can fill that role as well. I certainly saw flashes of a really good offense.
You woke up quick at about noon?
You should probably head to Compton soon.
You need to get there before the day begins.
It's just a matter of time before your mother starts bitching about your friends.
Be careful, however, I don't want you to go blind.
I heard there were some young G's throwing up gang signs.
If there are, just go in your house and grab your weapon.
I'm reasonably certain if you do, the fool's will keep stepping.
But doesn't it all come back to coaching? Isn't this what separates good coaches from everyone else? They can beat yours with theirs, and they can beat theirs with yours. I really thought this was what we were getting with Harbaugh. If the Oline is struggling in pass pro, then game plan for it. Run plays that get the ball out fast. There just doesn't seem to be an opponent specific game plan week to week. There never seems to be a counter to what the opponent is doing. Far less talented teams are making offensive football look very easy. Michigan always seems to add a degree of difficulty to everything it does. It's maddening.
Please don't take offense. The question has more to do with how people move the goalposts on Harbaugh. It really isn't a reflection on Iowa or questioning Iowa's importance. I think the OP is just saying we should determine whether the game is important beforehand and then stick with that decision.
My reply was meant to agree with CRG.
I could not agree more with this. To the point that I almost wish Michigan and like minded schools found a way to still field teams made up of student athletes and avoid being a part of what is to come. I admittedly haven't read the bill and am not aware of any constraints or controls that may be built in, but this seems really easy to exploit. I am also aware of UM's position in the world and realize that UM may thrive in an environment where they can take advantage of the prestige and influence they have. I just am not nearly as excited as most to hear that college football may be on its deathbed.
So I assume the the OP is Dwight Schrute and Jim has successfully convinced him it is Friday.
I wonder if the girl's basketball numbers have to do with the way that girl's basketball is officiated. The officials have no respect for the girls or their abilities. They let the games turn in to wrestling matches. It is ridiculous. The games become brutal and are miserable to play in.
Did you ever once get the feeling that UM won a game because of Carr's coaching? They had more talent than basically every team they played and often won in spite of Lloyd's horribly conservative approach. I could name 10 games that were lost because of Lloyd's playing not to lose philosophy or his stubborn desire to "establish the run" despite the other team selling out to stop the run. Thus allowing weaker teams to hang around and steal games.
?♂️
I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious.
I was just thinking that as I read the mailbag. We went from other coaches saying that we were impossible to prepare for because of all the formations and wrinkles, to South Carolina players saying they could call every we play we ran in advance. I don't understand what happened. This was one of the main things that I thought Harbaugh would bring. More of an NFL weekly game plan that was specific to that week's opponent and matchups.
I think I felt this gravity the most at the Oregon game after the "Horror". I distinctly remember feeling the thing you just described. Not specifically the solar system analogy, but in today's words, that Michigan was too big to fail. The Appy State game happened and the next week, everyone still showed up. All of the familiar faces were in our section. The band still took the field. The players still touched the banner. And I remember thinking, everything was going to be okay.
This is always the argument. Too vast of a conspiracy. Too many people knew. Why hasn't anyone talked? The interesting thing is that lots of people have come forward and talked. They have just been silenced, ignored or not believed. Lot's of evidence points towards conspiracy, but it is ignored or dismissed. Here's a quick example: FBI field agents report to Hoover saying that they listened to a recording of Oswald's call to the Russian Embassy in Mexico City. The problem is that the voice isn't Oswald's. The next thing you know there is a report that says there was no recording and only contains a transcript of the call. Problem solved.
Also, of all the books that support the lone gunman theory, Case Closed isn't the one I would endorse if I were you. Posner is a shill.
His use of the word "patsy" has always struck me. Why use that word? It has such a specific meaning. I think he was involved. Not sure if he pulled a trigger. Definitely don't think he acted alone.
Whew! I'm glad you have put this issue to bed. It has been driving me crazy.
You sound like your late 1960's counterpart when it was first suggested that the CIA and Mafia worked together against Castro. You know what everyone said, "that is speculative crazy talk". Guess what? It ended up being true.
I'm not sure how many times it has to come out that the government isn't being completely forthright before people understand that the government isn't completely forthright. Maybe they are doing the dirty work for us while allowing us citizens the plausible deniability of not knowing all that they do. Maybe in some circumstances they really have to be discreet for "national security reasons". Maybe they are doing what's best for the country and don't want our "virtues" to get in the way. Maybe they are sadistic bastards. I don't know. But I don't think blindly accepting the official story every time something happens is the way to go. I have a healthy skepticism and like to take a look at the facts for myself.
I could not have agreed more with this until I read Bugliosi's book. He really does a good job of picking this theory apart. I still believe that Ruby was involved in a larger plot, but boy does that book make you think really hard about it.
Yeah, I see that is unclear now. I should have said that the perception to some, including people within the government, was that he was soft on communism. His actual record in that regard certainly would be subject to debate.
I’m not suggesting he was or wasn’t soft. My understanding is that the hawks within our government thought he was soft. I’m not sure I have ever heard the Russian perspective on this, but I suspect that they thought they would be better off with JFK as President rather than an unknown replacement. It just seems unlikely to me that the Russians would be incentivized to go after him. Unless you believe they they just wanted to create chaos within the US.
I thought Bugliosi's book made a better case for the lone gunman theory. I thought Posner was dishonest in his book and his reliance on the computer models undermined his conclusions.
I think you have to look at the assassination in greater context. What has happened since? One thing I always find interesting in these discussions is the Cuba/Russia question. To blame Cuba/Russia is counter-intuitive. The knock on Kennedy was that he was soft on communism. Bay of Pigs, cutting a deal during the Cuban Missile Crisis. So who has more incentive to assassinate, communists or hawks within our own government?
I also think that the Robert Kennedy assassination tends to point towards conspiracy regarding JFK. The RFK assassination is easier to question because the forensics aren't even close. Forensics say he was shot at basically contact range behind his ear. The shooter was never closer than 18 inches and was always in front of him.
For me there is too much to question. I don't believe the lone gunman theory.
I'm with you on 9/11, but the problem is that the way in which the buildings fell violate all laws of physics. You could do experiment after experiment and could never re-create that result. So that always makes me question things.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/373-E-Deer-Lake-Rd-Boyne-City-MI-49712/2084681867_zpid/
Here you go. Since you asked a ridiculously personal question, I will give you an answer that fits for me. We ski (This is 5 minutes from Boyne Mountain), we golf (Boyne golf courses across the street) and we like to do watersports (On Deer Lake which is decent). there are only three of us so two bedrooms is plenty. I hope you have exactly the same wants and needs as me so that this is helpful.
Maybe I don't know the Fab 5 story as well as I think I do. If you have different information feel free to correct me. But I don't believe there is anything that suggests Fab 5 members were paid to come to Michigan. I have never seen anything to suggest that any one of the Fab 5 members received money from Ed Martin other than Chris Webber mainly and Jalen Rose on a much smaller scale. Ed Martin is someone that had little to no ties to Michigan. He was a Detroit guy that made his money illegally. He helped some of the local Detroit kids out with money here and there. He used some Michigan players to launder money where he would loan the family money and then get paid back when they went to the NBA. The only Fab 5 guy that took any large sum of money from Ed Martin was Chris Webber. And that was after he had committed to Michigan. Jalen testified that he received small amounts of money from Ed Martin, but that it was no different than the money that Ed had always given local Detroit kids. And that the money was not tied to him attending Michigan. Now whether the Ed Martin money was used to lure future recruits like Bullock, Traylor, Mo Taylor I'm not sure. I also don't know how much the coaching staff knew though I have heard that Dutcher was very dirty. If you read Jalen Rose's testimony he lays it out pretty well. Webber got in trouble because he lied during his testimony for some reason. I don't believe what he did was illegal, only an NCAA violation. So there was no reason to lie as he had already moved on to the NBA.
This was a long winded way of saying I disagree that the Fab 5 was responsible for Michigan's issues. And certainly none of it has ever been laid at Juwan Howard's feet. I have never seen anything to suggest that he received anything. So to say he was the least culpable suggests that he was culpable at all and I haven't ever seen anything that suggests he was.
Does anyone else see John Elway, but shorter?