donde esta [Bryan Fuller]

Mailbag: Army Aftermath Is Fun Comment Count

Brian September 11th, 2019 at 1:21 PM

On the basis of one somewhat and one very weird game, how would you revise the assumptions made in 2019 5Q/5A? Hopefully the answer is not at all, but … ugh.

-Dirk

I don't think anything about the defense has changed significantly. MTSU had 200 yards on an all-perimeter gameplan before Backup Events, and Army is a service academy triple option. If anything I think the situation there feels significantly better than it did preseason:

  • Uche looks like a Winovich-level dude and seems set to be a full time performer going forward.
  • The Ambry Thomas colitis scare is over.
  • Jordan Glasgow grabbed the WLB job and looks like a player.
  • Aidan Hutchinson is going from potential star to star.

The downers aren't downers at all if Michigan gets Dwumfour and Jeter back from injury. We knew Ben Mason wasn't going to be ready to be at DT. The one thing that is a bit concerning is the lack of immediate impact from Chris Hinton and Mazi Smith, and Uche might provide a way around that.

Offense… well. Uh. Missing DPJ and Runyan plus having a clearly dinged Patterson is a drag. But Patterson's main issue this season has been his decision-making, and that was his issue last season. If that isn't tracking towards an improvement for whatever reason (transition costs, that's just his ceiling) Michigan's not going to approach our optimistic preseason takes.

One thing that's probably making our offense takes more negative than they should be: fumbles. Michigan lost three all of last year. They've lost five already this year. They were probably due for an increase just as they regress towards the mean, but that's absurd.

Offense is stock down, but not as catastrophically as a lot of people seem to think.

[After THE JUMP: positive questions that reflect a faith Michigan will right the hahah no just more BPONE]

Hi Brian/Ace/Seth/Whoever Reads Mailbag If You Even Still Do It Anymore:

Is there a more fascinating and perplexing enigma of a big time college coach than Harbaugh? He has an uncanny ability to turn programs around and coach his players up to a near-championship level. But at the same time his team often looks totally lost and confused.

What is it about Harbaugh that, despite a talent and coaching advantage, makes many of Michigan's losses (and some of the wins) so grueling? So many of these games feel like bad dreams and seem to be characterized by a special Harbaugh brand of ChaosBall (I'm trying not to use the term 'sludgefart').  The Army game was Exhibit A of this. 

Why does Michigan so rarely plays its best game? Is he just a horrible in-game coach? Is he asking his college-aged checkers players to play professional 3-dimensional chess? I still think Harbaugh is a great coach but I'm amazed by the dual-nature of his coaching identity. Thoughts?

Sincerely,

A perplexed L'Carpetron Dookmarriot

I get a portion of this sentiment but just last year Michigan hammered Nebraska 56-10, Maryland 42-21, Wisconsin 38-13, and Penn State 42-7. The slide at the end of the year wasn't hard to diagnose, either. Michigan's pass rush got nerfed since it needed its DEs to get it done and those DEs were hurt, and Ohio State ruthlessly exposed Brandon Watson's lack of speed. The bowl game was low-effort, down four players and then several of their backups.

These were personnel issues. Michigan got away with zero pass rush from their DTs and a 4.6-4.7 third CB for most of the year. They turned out to be unable of coping with OSU because of it.

That said, I do think Harbaugh's a bit of a chaos agent who may provide a ceiling on the program that's lower than what we want. The 2018 recruiting class is a good example: Michigan was extremely disorganized, whiffed on a ton of guys, and came in with the #22 class in the country. Harbaugh revamped and Michigan recovered but that class is likely to provide a critical deficiency at one position or another—the secondary most likely—that costs Michigan at some point.

At least the defense has reached a measure of stability under Brown. I think Michigan will get there at some point; I don't think it'll be regular.

 

Honestly yes. Corner is a spot at which there's a lot of correlation between high rankings and NFL success, and unlike some other spots there are close to no examples of "college greats" at CB who the NFL does not have any interest in. Michigan's CB recruiting was bouyed by the Lewis-Hill-Thomas run of instate stars; add in David Long and that's a recipe for a half-decade of success.

But since adding Thomas, the #90 guy in the composite, in 2017 Michigan has not gotten a top 100 corner. In 2018 they got Myles Sims (composite #170), but he's already gone and the rest of that class consisted of three stars. Last year's class had Jalen Perry (composite #200), but he was processed by Georgia and has landed in Ann Arbor with nary a whisper despite a clear need at the position—one even more pronounced in spring with Hill out. 2020 looks set to be another class without a blue-chipper even if Michigan closes on one of their two main CB targets.

Pretty much the only issue that rankles in last year's class is the way Michigan handled Julian Barnett's recruiting. Barnett would have continued the string of top-100 instate corners that Michigan needs to bat 100% on if they're going to continue expecting the hard-nosed press man guys Don Brown relies on.

Yes thank you this is a giant pet peeve of mine. 5.1 is a lot different than 5.9. 5.10 vs 5.19 is not worth communicating. The basic stats site I go to, cfbstats.com, does this and my internal reaction to seeing 5.26 is to round it. How much of my life have I wasted rounding football yardage numbers with two decimal places? Too much! Let's get the torches and pitchforks and march on cfbstats dot com!

48656691906_6ca48c6221_k

where's that dude [Bryan Fuller]

McCaffrey got a couple chances. He threw a bad ball on an RPO that may have been also a bad read if Collins, wide open on a slant, was part of that read. And then on the third down after Patterson left with his oblique aggravation he had what looked like a blinding keep read that he did not keep on. It's possible that if he'd executed either of those plays he would have been given more rope. He didn't.

No. Michigan's offense isn't much different for most of the players. The WRs run routes, the running backs are running most of the same plays, and the OL is blocking power and inside zone and a little outside zone like they almost always have. We haven't seen the full breadth of what Michigan's trying to do—I certainly hope—but the early Harbaugh offenses what with their weekly T-formation and "here's a weird trap I just installed" had to be tougher for the OL and TEs.

The two positions that probably do have more on their plate are slot receiver, which is now doing some running back stuff and executing a lot of different motions, and quarterback. I don't think Patterson did a good job with the new offense last weekend—and neither did McCaffrey. So… yeah.

98%. There is some high school kid on ShowYourAss.com who said this. Or maybe middle school kid. They give those dudes phones now.

It is inappropriate to tar and feather middle schoolers; it is equally inappropriate to infer anything about actual adults based on what middle schoolers and one sorry-for-partying type named Mitch are saying on the internet. Anyone writing articles about what four people said on twitter should be immediately fired.

One cupcake at home for the opener. One marquee game that alternates home and away, ideally with the home game coming in years when MSU/OSU are on the road. One mid-to-low level P5or high level G5 home and away (Arkansas, Boise State, UCLA, Memphis, Colorado) unless you can get 2 for 1s or one-offs for some of them. Notre Dame two years off, two years on.

Service academies? Nope!

I'm not sure this is a defensible statement yet. Wilton Speight did look worse as a junior but how much of that was him and how much of it was the chaos passing for an offensive line that purported to protect him is hard to tease out. I kind of think the latter was most of it, because Speight got knocked out by a previously impotent Purdue rush in game three and, uh, the rest of that season happened.

I'm frustrated with Patterson this year but I'm also not going to make a call about whether he's regressed after two games. Rudock was horrible for the first half of his lone year in Ann Arbor, and then he got drafted to play the greatest position in sports: backup QB.

If you go by week one, Uche. If Michigan manages to work him in 75% of the time going forward, Tarik Black. But also still Nico.

Comments

umjgheitma

September 11th, 2019 at 1:44 PM ^

On the Harbaugh choas (Harbaos?...nvm) question, I think there are a few games in which he (or someone else on the staff) notices a chink in the proverbial armor that he actually has a weapon with which to attack. I think he has recruited too many "great for 1980s football" guys and got stuck with one guy that may be useful but the rest of the supporting cast fully lacks the ability (i.e. McDoom on a smoke screen but with a lack of players who can block downfield). 

When they don't have that recurring way to edge the defense and the other team adjusts the games repeatedly sludgefart their way to the end.

JFW

September 11th, 2019 at 1:48 PM ^

" But Patterson's main issue this season has been his decision-making, and that was his issue last season. If that isn't tracking towards an improvement for whatever reason (transition costs, that's just his ceiling) Michigan's not going to approach our optimistic preseason takes."

And there it is. That, and my worry that maybe Gattis can't call a game well are the balloon carrying clowns in the closet of my subconscious. 

"I think Michigan will get there at some point; I don't think it'll be regular."

If we can keep recruiting up, I totally agree with this. And I'm okay with it. I went back the other day with some stats and relived the RR/Hoke days. That sucked. Badly. MSU used to not only beat us but manhandle and embarrass us. 

Sleepy

September 11th, 2019 at 4:11 PM ^

In four years, the Ohio State game has been extremely competitive twice (including one with John O'Korn playing like complete ass).  And Sparty needed a once-in-a-generation miracle and a game in a hurricane against UM's third-string QB (hi, again, John) to get to 2-2.

Meaning there's a parallel timeline where UM is 6-2 in those games.  Or 5-3.  Or 4-4.  Or 3-5.

And the two wins against Sparty were such comprehensive ass-kickings that 1-7 or 0-8 are completely off the table.

Meaning UM is at the worst possible end of the bell curve.  Because of course they are.

I will now pour myself a glass of scotch.  It's after 3:00--shut up.

Fuuuuuuuck.

jabberwock

September 11th, 2019 at 5:38 PM ^

Sorry, this is the bullshit excuses I'm so god damned tired of hearing.  (this isn't particularly directed at you Sleepy)

Every fucking team that loses a game can blame it on the following:

"that one bad decision by the QB"

"those 10 bad decisions by the QB"

"That bad weather event (that everyone knew was coming)"

"that "transition" recruiting class"

"that key O-line injury in training camp"

That backup who didn't get enough 1st team reps"

"that unforeseen transfer"

"That coordinator/system change"

"that horrible officiating crew'

"that unfortunate off-field incident that suspended the star player"

Etc. etc. etc.

Every team that plays has these issues, we just don't know the minutiae of each team because we don't follow them obsessively.   Losses suck, but it means your team wasn't as good regardless of the reasons.

Good teams look for every advantage, build in contingency plans, and find a way to overcome and win.  There's a really famous shortened version of this philosophy . . .

You are your record.

BlueTimesTwo

September 11th, 2019 at 10:06 PM ^

Yes, and no.  You are your record, but when you are trying to upset a top 5 program like OSU, getting royally screwed by officials takes the game from tough win to near impossible.  You don’t think calling JT short, or calling PI evenly in that game would have changed the outcome?  And you don’t think that getting a win there would have changed the perception of Harbaugh?

TrueBlue2003

September 12th, 2019 at 2:53 PM ^

You are your record only retrospectively.  Yes, we have not won a conference title under Harbaugh.  The record dictated that.

But when evaluating the factors a coach has control over, which is what you should do when projecting future scenarios, Harbaugh has done very well.  It would be crazy to think that unlucky things will keep happening indefinitely.  He's been literal inches, centimeters even, from Indy twice in four years.  

If we keep recruiting fairly well and keep trying to get the best coaches in place while maintaining relative continuity, Michigan will be a regular contender and will break through here and there.  An appearance every three years in Indy would be pretty good.

Brodie

September 12th, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^

I think we are there. And I think this is where most UM fans, but especially the majority of highly connected alumni and donors the administration listens to, want us to be. The fans who need us to become Alabama or even Urban's OSU are a minority and do not have the ear of the administration. 

Maybe Harbaugh is "just" a top 10-15 coach who will consistently produce 9-10 wins and get you in the conversation but struggle to land the finish. We wouldn't be the only program to ever find ourselves in that spot... history (OSU under Cooper, UGA under Richt) suggests that schools will give coaches long leashes for that kind of production. Mack Brown needed 8 years at Texas to shake that reputation, Tom Osborne needed over 20 at Nebraska. The arc of history suggests if Harbaugh wants this job it will probably be his for another decade without real pressure at the current level of success. Getting all ANGER at that fact is not a productive use of energy

ERdocLSA2004

September 12th, 2019 at 2:47 PM ^

Agree with you and JFW above. I’m way less concerned about how Gattis calls a game.  This “victory” looked exactly like every game we have played that resulted in a close win over a team we should have blown out or crappy loss to a rival.  To me this game embodied every frustrating game we have played in the Harbaugh era.  We have new position coaches, different and talented players, yet these types of games under Harbaugh look and feel the same to me.  I don’t know why this is, I’m not anti-Harbaugh, but this win against Army brings thoughts and feelings that are eerily similar to all of us that have followed this team over the Harbaugh era.  Games like this have become the norm, not the exception.  The question is, why?

PrettyFlyWhiteGuy

September 11th, 2019 at 3:24 PM ^

I was just thinking that as I read the mailbag.  We went from other coaches saying that we were impossible to prepare for because of all the formations and wrinkles, to South Carolina players saying they could call every we play we ran in advance.  I don't understand what happened.  This was one of the main things that I thought Harbaugh would bring.  More of an NFL weekly game plan that was specific to that week's opponent and matchups.

stephenrjking

September 11th, 2019 at 11:40 PM ^

Harbaugh did that stuff (talking particularly about different run concepts from different formations that messed with run fits) with Drevno. As he tried to cycle Drev out, the variety receded. In 2017 it was a bizarre Frey/Drevno combination that resulted in replacing one scheme with another in the middle of the year with guys who could not pass block at all, and we know how that went. 

Then, last year, he brought in Warinner and delegated the job the way many people asked him to. The job is still basically delegated. The result of the delegation is that the unique stuff that Harbaugh did went away, since Harbaugh's hand was no longer gracing that part of the offense. 

He still has some stuff. The zone read arc bluff package that Shea debuted with the long run against Wisconsin is straight out of the Colin Kaepernick playbook, for example. But that was built on the back of a basic split zone concept that is a Warinner play. 

 

LDNfan

September 11th, 2019 at 5:05 PM ^

I think Oline problems and broken QBs happened...Its really hard to do much on O with any consistency when you can't count on your Oline and with little QB depth you have to do crazy shit to protect the starter. Then there were some coaching issues related to both of those areas (Drevno/Frey, Pep...) that compound the problems.

But still...Harbaugh had a phantom call take away a W in the shoe...and was right there in a couple of games w OSU but was hand-cuffed by broken QBs. 

Alumnus93

September 11th, 2019 at 5:58 PM ^

I thought we were rolling well until Speight got hurt/lost to Iowa. Can't remember now. But after that it seems Harbaugh decided to go away from Speight, and it hasn't gone as planned.  I wonder had he stuck with him what the last year would have looked like.   

TrueBlue2003

September 12th, 2019 at 12:15 AM ^

Ehhh, this is some serious revisionist history.  You're remembering the bowl game and putting too much weight on it. Also, our overall giddiness about being a functional football team relative to the prior two seasons is throwing off your context.

Michigan was pretty terrible offensively in all the toughest games that year: Utah, MSU, OSU (there weren't many tough games that season - easy schedule). They simply could not run the ball against good defenses, something that plagued them until last year when the finally started using the QBs legs as a threat.

Last years offense was a lot better (not just anecdotally, this is supported by statistics S&P+ and FEI).

TheCube

September 11th, 2019 at 2:04 PM ^

Well, looks like Maizen was correct about the 2018 class. There will be plenty of holes on the roster moving forward thanks to that year. 

It seems like 2020 might follow suit as well. 

Need more consistent year over year recruiting. 

NotADuck

September 12th, 2019 at 9:14 AM ^

It's a little early to say that 2018 has a bunch of busts in it as those players are mostly redshirt freshman.  I'd wait till next year to judge that class.  Guys like Julius Welschof, Luke Schoonmaker, and Cam McGrone are still a year away from being fully formed contributors.

Hutchinson is already starting.  Bell, Gray, and Turner are regular contributors at their positions.  Cam McGrone is in line to start next year.  Mayfield and Hayes are going to be multi-year starters at the OT positions.  Michael Barrett could be the starting viper next year.  Milton... ehhhh still a year or 2 away from him being in the conversation at QB.  He was so raw coming out of high school.  If that guy ever puts it together he could be Cam Newton 2.0, although he has a lot of improving to do before that happens.

DualThreat

September 11th, 2019 at 2:04 PM ^

The cornerback recruiting issues are interesting, because if there is one school of all of FBS that you'd think would have a floor of "very good" cornerback recruiting, it would be Michigan.  This is based on the fact that we've had the only defensive player to win a Heisman, who was a cornerback no less.  I know this doesn't mean too terribly much in the grande scheme of things, but if you had to point to something to give a school a recruiting advantage at a position, a Heisman (and the most rare one at that) is something I would think would move the needle.

TheCube

September 11th, 2019 at 2:21 PM ^

That helped reel in Jabrill Peppers, so there's that. 

I think it might have more to do with Brian Smith's departure more than anything. Zordich doesn't seem to have the same recruiting chops as he did even tho he is an excellent coach. 

1VaBlue1

September 11th, 2019 at 2:25 PM ^

That Heisman was 22 years ago - older than most of the players.  Certainly older than any current croot still in high school.  What would (should?) make more difference to a CB croot is the recent track record of Brown's defenses in general, and Mike Zordich's secondary in particular.  How a top CB can't look at that and say 'yes, please', is beyond my comprehension...

mclub

September 11th, 2019 at 4:56 PM ^

The CB recruiting never has been great since Harbaugh has been here outside of David Long's recruitment.  I think Hill, Seldon, Thomas were local guys over the last 5 years that already wanted to come to Michigan, that Michigan did a solid job on. Brian Smith was the safeties coach.

While I know recruiting is a lot of times a staff effort, it seems every other position has at least been solid to good at times under Harbaugh.  When I asked the question I was hoping to imply, at what point is being a really good CB coach and an average recruiter enough or not enough?  They have simply been too good on the heels of the local guys for any position job to be at stake, but the CB recruiting seems to be an issue and alarming.

How much of the corner play can be attributed to scheme, Don Brown and player's natural talent versus the position coaching they are getting.  There is really no way to answer that.  I'd be interested in people's opinions on if they are content with the job Zordich is doing because their play on the field has been good outside of some big games.   It just looks like corner is going to become a problem real soon.  Look at the WRs Ohio State is bringing in. Excuse me I still have PTSD from my trip to the shoe last year.

Phaedrus

September 11th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^

I think it’s because cornerbacks are easy to evaluate. As Brian alluded to, you won’t find many diamonds in the rough at that position because it’s obvious when a player is super quick and has fluid hips. That’s why local players who have a sentimental attachment to the school are so important.

I think we were very lucky to get David Long. He probably passed up quite a bit of cash to come to Michigan. Hopefully the legal changes in California will allow athletes to sell their likenesses. If that happens, I think it will level the playing field for us against certain schools. 

TrueBlue2003

September 12th, 2019 at 12:32 AM ^

As Brian mentioned though, that was more a matter of luck that a string of NFL CBs hailed (see what I did there?) from the state of Michigan.  Without that luck, it's been nearly impossible to pull top CBs from elsewhere, Long being the lone exception.

When you're competing against other top teams that also put a lot of guys into the NFL, that's not differentiator.

aiglick

September 11th, 2019 at 2:06 PM ^

I’m not ready to hit the panic button yet. MTSU is probably middling at best although they did beat their opponent last week. Army is just a weird opponent, a disciplined opponent, and a tough out. Wouldn’t be surprised if they do well again this year. Still we just don’t have a lot of data yet. Wisconsin is going to tell us more but even then if we lose we can still have a good year so long as all the kinks in the offense get worked out over the next five weeks. I believe this team can beat Iowa at home even if all the issues aren’t worked out. Ultimately, I believe we have less than one loss going into PSU and that is the mid term exam. Would love to win at Wisconsin but if we show improvement and use the week to get better this could still be a great season with potential.

KBLOW

September 11th, 2019 at 2:15 PM ^

If the reasons for MCaff not being given more playing time are correct, then Patterson was also making the same mistakes AND fumbled and was clearly hurt. Something still isn't adding up with the program excuses for not giving our backup more playing time in that game. 

mitchewr

September 11th, 2019 at 2:48 PM ^

This.

How on earth can McCaffrey be THAT bad of a QB that an injured, fumbling, mis-reading, and can't throw Shea STILL beats him out?

I mean, we haven't see much of McCaffrey this season, but he looked pretty solid last year on the drives he led. He also looked pretty solid in spring ball...not the same as a game I know but still.

Something's wrong with the math here...

MGlobules

September 11th, 2019 at 9:55 PM ^

If McCaffrey were killing it in practice we would see him. It's sensible to assume he's not.

But if a) the coaches are wanting/needing to reassure a somewhat fragile Shea that he's their guy and b) believe he's a strong game manager even when injured and c) they're assuming that fumbles are stochastic and that sooner rather than later it stops--or some combination and intensity of these motives. . . this isn't quite the stumper people are making it out to be.

Let's hope for a healthy and freewheeling Shea against Wisconsin. After all, we WON these first two games, the O showed real potential for greatness in the first half of both of them and the D exceeded expectations.

reshp1

September 11th, 2019 at 3:40 PM ^

Talk is talk, when it comes down to it Harbaugh is an ardent believer in the once you name a starting QB, you stick with him philosophy. I would guess as someone who played the position at every level, he knows how much rotating can screw with the starter's confidence and rhythm. I think the only reason you saw Dylan at all in MTSU was because they were evaluating Shea and plus it was a blow out. I'll believe the two QB rotation when I see it against a real opponent.