Beilein demonstrates my facial expression if Indiana hires him [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Unverified Voracity Is Changing John Beilein's Phone Number Comment Count

Brian March 16th, 2021 at 12:24 PM

Welp. Wouldn't bank on a Livers return:

I'm trying to remember the last time Michigan went into the postseason with a significant injury. A meaningful one: not having Devin Gardner for the Oh God Tyler Lockett Bowl doesn't count. I guess Jabrill Peppers versus Florida State. Mitch McGary in 2014 sort of counts but he'd been out for a long time and Michigan was still really good.

Anyway, having the chair pulled out like this sucks.

this tweet: lol lol lol lolllllllllll

Stay away from basketball dad. The Minnesota and Indiana jobs just opened and I swear they're really going to chase me into the ocean this time if this dread prophecy is fulfilled:

Thankfully, early vibes don't seem to be pointing in this direction. Beilein did draw mention on Seth Davis's candidate list—was in fact his pick for the job—but it sounds like he's just guessing. Beilein was omitted from David Cobb's, and it doesn't seem like the fanbase is overly enthusiastic about a guy who would necessarily be a stopgap since he's 68.

On the other hand, some of these Indiana names are downright preposterous. Davis listed Scott Drew and Nate Oats, as did Inside The Hall. Oats already shot that idea down. Drew has spent 18 years at Baylor, which stuck with him through a 12-52 conference record in his first four years, and has finally turned the Bears into an outright power with what would have been back-to-back one seeds if last year's tournament happened. ITH did not list a singe mid-major head coach, instead focusing on two guys above and further extreme longshots (Eric Mussleman two years in at Arkansas, Oregon's Dana Altman)… mostly.

The exception? MSU assistant Dane Fife. This would be amazing. MSU fans want to run Fife out of town on a rail because they blame him for having Thomas Kithier and Foster Loyer on the roster instead of large, athletic persons. Fife is a former Indiana player, FWIW, but man there's no in-between here. Porter Moser now seems like a solid idea! Try that!

[After THE JUMP: even more Michigan connections to Big Ten coaching searches]

Minnesota has far less grandiose aspirations. SDSU head coach Brian Dutcher, a longtime Steve Fisher assistant, is a prominent name because his father coached Minnesota for over a decade. Dutcher has an unusual carve-out in his contract where his otherwise steep buyout is just 1 million if he takes the Minnesota job, so there's clearly interest on his end.

Dutcher took over at SDSU for Fisher after a 9-9 MWC season saw them miss the tournament for a second consecutive year after a six-year run of bids and has done well for himself. After an 11 seed in year one and an off-year in year two he had SDSU ranked sixth on Kenpom and headed for a two seed last year; this year they're 20th and a six-seed. The only hangup there might be Dutcher's age—he's 61—but it's unlikely they're going to get a more proven guy.

Other names at Minnesota are Porter Moser, Utah State's Craig Smith, and Colorado State's Niko Medved. Medved is also a Minnesota alum.

Other coaching carousel bits. BC hired Not Howard Eisley, going with Charleston's Earl Grant.

Penn State hired former Purdue and Celtics assistant Micah Shrewsberry in a move that looks a bit like an attempt to replicate Juwan Howard. Matt Norlander:

Micah Shrewsberry has a background in the Big Ten (two stints with Purdue) and the NBA (six seasons on Brad Stevens' staff in Boston) that put him on the path to getting this job. Penn State notes, "Shrewsberry played a key role in the development of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, who were the No. 3 picks in the 2016 and 2017 NBA Drafts, respectively." The Nittany Lions get a fresh start with a coach who has been buzzed about for a couple of years now. He nailed the interview process, and now gets to work at one of the toughest jobs in that league.

We'll see if his connections to NBA guys gives him an unusual amount of recruiting juice for PSU.

Richard Pitino immediately landed the New Mexico job. That strikes me as odd since Pitino's performance at Minnesota was more or less identical to everyone else who's had the job since Clem Haskins got them put on probation, but one thing a recently-fired high-major head coach has going for them: they're cheap. No buyout, and you can skimp on their salary since you're just offsetting a portion of the buyout.

Maybe don't pick Michigan in your bracket. Seems like everyone is:

This is deeply weird because Michigan's lost three of five and is down a hugely important player. I'd think recency bias alone would cause the public to fade Michigan. I know we are legion but I don't think a horde of Michigan fans is enough to swamp something as big as an ESPN bracket challenge.

Penn State is going to need a new Penn State. Penn State basketball has entered the portal. Shrewsberry's going to need a long leash:

Harrar, Wheeler, and Buttrick are seniors going for a bonus COVID year so maybe those don't count as much since PSU was probably preparing to lose them on some level. Jones hurts. Michigan might want to kick the tires there if they're not getting any of their seniors back—Jones shot 40% from three this year with a top 50 TO rate and you'd have to imagine that Michigan can get him better shots inside the arc (where he was at 39%) than Penn State did.

Another name in the portal. Indiana's Al Durham has decided to light out for greener pastures. Durham's another guy like Jones: a proven shooter who might look like an entirely different player when put in a less depressing context. Unlike Jones, Durham doesn't have a lot of involuntary usage to scrape off his hull. But I've always liked him as a player and that might be another set of tires to kick.

Revamp? Interesting ESPN+ article on three pointers reaching such dominance in NBA strategy circles that people are muttering about changing things:

THERE'S LITTLE DESIRE across the league to return to Patrick Ewing vs. Alonzo Mourning, but there's also a sense that the game is losing diversity of identity, at least offensively. This school of thought maintains that a stylistic conformity has overtaken the game. One of the more appealing characteristics of basketball is the number of ways a player can score, but a 3-pointer every 30 to 45 seconds introduces a repetition that isn't so appealing.

"With all sports or competitive endeavors, you want there to be a strategic dynamic where there are multiple paths to victory," said Daryl Morey, Philadelphia 76ers president of basketball operations. "You want measures and countermeasures that are pretty well-balanced, so that you can go down any one of those paths and get a victory if the path is chosen well and executed well. But the NBA right now appears to be somewhat unbalanced, in large part because the reward given for the 3 being worth 50% more than a 2 is out of balance."

The whole league is Nate Oats's Alabama, and that can make for some monotony. Unfortunately, I don't know if many of the solutions offered are reasonable. A "longtime league power broker" has suggested that the number of threes should be capped at 20 until the last six minutes, which sounds ridiculous but no less ridiculous than getting rid of corner threes.

Draft intel on Paye and Mayfield. Via Bruce Feldman, the take on Paye:

“He is super explosive and has a high motor. He has the ability to be a speed guy or a power guy, where he can really bull-rush you. He can really turn the corner, but he is not a long dude. He could have trouble against a polished 6-foot-7 guy.”

Feldman has Paye 23rd overall, which is a bit lower than I've seen him elsewhere. On Mayfield:

“He is a first-round talent. He plays fast; has good change of direction; is very physical and plays with tenacity; He dominated Minnesota’s guys (in the Wolverines’ opener) like they were kids. He should be able to play four positions in the NFL, but probably will not be seen as a long-term solution at left tackle because his arm length isn’t what most NFL teams want.”

He's 25th. Mayfield hasn't featured on a ton of first rounds so far.

Etc.: Everything you wanted to know about cocaine bear. Big news for the cast of Heathers. Player-voted B10 awards go about how you'd think. Kevin Warren talks B10 hockey, doesn't say very much. Colleges suck at adhering to FOIA.

Comments

njvictor

March 16th, 2021 at 12:34 PM ^

Indiana fans are so delusional right now. A good amount of them genuinely think they have a chance with Stevens, Drew, and Beard. It's like Nebraska in football thinking they have a good chance at getting Dabo or Cristobal or Campbell. I think Michigan fans were pretty optimistic when it came to wanting Stevens or Billy Donovan a few years back, but Michigan was at a great place as a program (unlike Indiana) and Billy Donovan was also essentially unemployed at that point, unlike all of Indiana's pipe dreams

buckeyekiller1

March 16th, 2021 at 12:51 PM ^

Any more delusional than Michigan fans were when we thought we were getting Harbaugh? That was never going to happen...until it happened (or it’s happening.gif). Pretty parallel program trajectories and histories: both with 2/3 good years since ‘00, both clearly top 10...maybe top 5 programs all-time, both perennially underachieve related to the talent they bring in, both have screwed up their last several head coaching hires (I hope Harbaugh turns it around because if he can’t win big here I’m not sure who can).

I’m an IU alum, Indy native, and IU bball fan in addition to a Big House season ticket holder since ‘92. Do I think we have a *good* shot at Stevens? No. Do I think it’s preposterous that he would consider coming to IU? No. He’s from Indiana, coached in the state at Butler to great success, has Midwest connections, and Celtics fans and critics seem to want him gone. Scott Drew: from Indiana, dad coached Valpo and he attended and coached at Butler before Baylor. If he wants to come home now is his chance. Say what you want but there are few places in the world that love their basketball more than Indiana...and that may draw a native like him to come home and resurrect a once great program. Again do I think we have a *good* shot at getting him? No. Do I want Mark Cuban and Mellencamp to throw bags of money at Stevens or Drew to get them to Bloomington? Fuck yes I do.
 

Beard I don’t see, he’s making $4.5 a year at TT. Beilein is pushing 70. If it were 10 years ago sure but no thanks right now. We would be right back to a coaching search in 7-10 years. Fife has an outside chance. Thad Motta no one seems to be talking about, but he’s still in his early 50s and unemployed currently. If he wants back into coaching this is the perfect opportunity close to home.

allezbleu

March 16th, 2021 at 1:00 PM ^

I would say more delusional. Harbaugh and Michigan football had way stronger ties than Stevens or Drew have to IU. Stevens and Drew remind me of how guys like Jon Gruden and Bob Stoops came up during our past searches and people would bring up the fact that they're midwest guys or whatever.

But you know what, there's nothing wrong with being delusional. Delusions become reality once in awhile. Aim high.

buckeyekiller1

March 16th, 2021 at 1:12 PM ^

I mean, just being from the region and being born and growing up in that state I would say are a bit different r.e. Gruden and Stoops. Both Stevens and Drew grew up and/or were born in Indiana, went to college in Indiana, and coached D1 in Indiana. And for Drew, dad coached in Indiana for a long time as well. So his family does have long lasting roots in the state. Again, I don’t think we have a *good* chance of landing either. But do I think it’s as delusional as people are acting like it is to think we have a chance at landing either of them? No. Maybe a 10-20% chance, but I do believe they would consider the job unlike Gruden or Stoops with absolutely no previous ties to the program or even the state of Michigan.

buckeyekiller1

March 16th, 2021 at 1:55 PM ^

I agree. Something to be said for returning home though. And IU would be the best job in the state if he wants to return to his roots and still coach. I don’t think it’s happening...but to act like it’s so far-fetched, delusional, and asinine that he would even consider the job seems disingenuous.

allezbleu

March 16th, 2021 at 1:44 PM ^

It's basically the same thing. Stevens has no ties to IU but he grew up in a state where IU basketball is everything. Is that really that much different than Gruden being an Ohio guy growing up thinking OSU-UM is the pinnacle of the sport?

Drew is not even from Indiana. I'm aware his dad coached in the state and that he might have family there. Does playing at Butler make IU special to you by proximity that much? Maybe a little. But it's most likely being overstated by IU fans.

Hopeful fanbases can use these loose associations and come up with big names. It doesn't make it not delusional. And it certainly makes it more delusional than Harbaugh to Michigan, given Harbaugh's previously extensive direct ties to UM. 

And I say "delusional" in a playful sense. All fanbases are delusional. And that's half the fun. We're in agreement that Stevens or Drew to IU is a longshot. And that it still might happen!

 

4roses

March 16th, 2021 at 1:14 PM ^

FWIW a couple key differences between the two scenarios (U of M Harbaugh / IU Brad Stevens). Harbaugh was at the end of his contract and it was clear he wasn't returning to SF so he was actually in the market for a new job. Also, Harbaugh was an alum/former player at the school - not just a resident of the state. On the scale of delusion (with 10 being "why wouldn't Saban relish the chance to coach at [insert generic school name here]") I would put us pre-Harbaugh U of M fans at about a 6. IU fans thinking they have a shot with Stevens is a solid 9.    

buckeyekiller1

March 16th, 2021 at 1:27 PM ^

I would agree with most of this. I think you may be underestimating just how fed up Boston is with Stevens though. There’s legit talk of them letting him go after the season. I think they’re dumb for thinking that, but the talk is real. I don’t think Stevens would leave a solid Celtics position for IU...but just maybe if they keep shitting the bed and his seat continues to stay hot...you’re telling me there’s a chance.gif. I do think we have a much better shot at Drew than Stevens though for reasons stated above.

bronxblue

March 16th, 2021 at 2:37 PM ^

I don't know how sick Boston fans are of Stevens as much as they're annoyed by the realization that the ceiling for this team isn't quite at the championship level they all hoped.  But Stevens could get another NBA job pretty easily so I'd be surprised if he'd jump back to IU when there are a couple of NBA jobs likely looking to make a move.

Niels

March 17th, 2021 at 11:23 AM ^

I dunno about Stevens. I live in Boston so while I’m a Sixers fan I think I have a decent sense of the fan base here. While I think that some Celtics fans may be fine with Stevens leaving; they are mostly the folks who give Cs fans the rep of being even more delusional than those of former blue blood programs looking to return to glory, which IU and UM both can be examples of. The significant majority of Celtics fans think their problems are with Danny (Ainge) and a f.o. that laments all the trades others wouldn’t gift them while being bad talent evaluators outside the lottery. 

lhglrkwg

March 16th, 2021 at 12:38 PM ^

Maybe people saw us nearly beat OSU who nearly beat Illinois and said 'eh they still look pretty good to me?' I dunno.

I certainly get people still picking Michigan to make the Elite 8 or even Final Four, but beating any of the other 1 seeds? I'm not sure that was likely before Livers got injured

bronxblue

March 16th, 2021 at 2:46 PM ^

Yeah, it feels like UM should absolutely be considered a top-10 team and that would give them a good chance of making an E8/FF, but the idea this team could beat Gonzaga or Illinois as presently constituted, even with the favorable draw, seems off.

That said, I do buy people being optimistic about UM's bracket and assuming that some of the other big dogs might be picked off along the way.

matty blue

March 16th, 2021 at 12:52 PM ^

see, that's the thing here.  i've been saying - if we'd started the season without livers, i still would have been optimistic.  johns is super-talented, engaged, and active - it wouldn't be all that surprising if he had a breakout in the tournament just based on opportunity alone.  there's a huge difference between *knowing* you're playing 25 minutes and not knowing.  he knows he's going to have a slightly longer leash, hopefully that lets him play with a bit more confidence.

True Blue 9

March 16th, 2021 at 1:28 PM ^

Agree with a lot of your points here for sure. I think the biggest thing with Johns is the lack of consistency, from what's expected of him AND how he performs on the court. That's where a lot of the problem lies now IMHO. He's being put into an unfamiliar role. The first indication on Saturday was quite good how he'll respond but the key will be: can he be consistent? I think the jury is still out on that big time, for obvious reasons. 

bronxblue

March 16th, 2021 at 2:49 PM ^

I want to be optimistic, and he's got the potential to do so, but I can't shake the fact he's had a couple of years to get to the consistent state we all expected and he still hasn't.  Now, could a consistent set of minutes in the tournament give him the right kind of juice and focus?  Sure.  But McGary was getting a lot of minutes throughout the year and showed an efficiency with his game that I'm not sold Johns has shown.  

That said, I do expect him to be better knowing he'll see the court 20+ minutes a game than being in his undefined role for parts of this year.

BlueLikeJazz

March 16th, 2021 at 1:41 PM ^

I think the thing that gets Michigan through—if it happens—is a continuation of what happened this season: A balanced attack with a different guy crushing you each night. As great as Livers is, there were a number of wins where he was largely anonymous. Just need John’s to be the man once...and Franz once, and Hunter once, and Smith once, with the others pitching in when it isn’t their big night.

 

but to your point, it would be nice for Johns to go off for 18 and 10 one game

Wolverine In Exile

March 16th, 2021 at 12:45 PM ^

If Patrick Beilein hadn't had the personal issues that drove him out of coaching last year, a "hire Patrick, bring your dad as an assistant" would have been a hell of a IU offer. As it is, they're going to get either a failed Power 5 coach, or an unproven mid-major flavor of the month. And things won't change. 

AZBlue

March 16th, 2021 at 2:39 PM ^

I could see the opposite - maybe JB takes the job to secure a prime assistant gig for Patrick (aka "the Ferentz") to reclaim his stature?

If your scenario played out....Did you know that it would be the first time JB would EVER have been an assistant coach at a program??!!

 

 

/s - but man would you have to hear that every time IU was on TV.

matty blue

March 16th, 2021 at 12:47 PM ^

i'm dying to see steve alford in bloomington.  i'm begging you guys.

as to beilein - this is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't it make sense for someone to hire him and ask him to bring along patrick as heir apparent, kinda like what homer drew did at valpo?  patrick's got a good resume, and was about to make a move up the ladder when he backed out at niagara for personal reasons and hasn't resurfaced.  i know zero about the background there, so my apologies if i'm being insensitive.

EDIT - oh hey, lookit that.  a fellow traveler beat me to it.

UMQuadz05

March 16th, 2021 at 12:48 PM ^

I'm sympathetic to the "too many three's" people but you can't put in overly complicated solutions.  IMO the best response would be to raise the value of at least some 2s.  Maybe you could start calling fouls closely, or even only give pros 5 fouls instead of 6? 

DiploMan

March 16th, 2021 at 1:35 PM ^

I definitely agree that fouling needs to be made more costly.  I thing I hate the most about basketball is that a team can benefit from what is, fundamentally, a violation of the rules of the game.

Here's my (probably unworkable) idea for eroding the marginal value of 3-pointers:  award an extra point (i.e. 3) for assisted two-point baskets.  That would have the added benefit of dissuading the iso and Shaq-like back-down plays.  

Plus, think of the great theatrics as coaches throw tantrums over scorekeepers judgement calls!

Mgotri

March 16th, 2021 at 2:03 PM ^

Changing fouls in not going to cut down on the three much. You need to bring the expected value of threes more in line with their value over twos. They used to do this by moving the line back. Now, it can't go back further. My suggestion would be to make the diameter of the rim smaller. This would cut down makes across the board, but longer shots would be more greatly affected. 

My totally off-the-wall idea is to put another hoop on top of the current one that you have to shoot at to get a 3 pointer. Bonus points for putting it through both hoops. 

jmblue

March 16th, 2021 at 2:12 PM ^

One solution might be to have shots inside the arc worth 3 points and shots beyond worth 4.  A 33% premium instead of 50% might make things more equitable.  Of course, it would throw all the league scoring records out of whack, unless they want to go back and reconvert everyone's stats.  

They definitely should widen the court at least so that the corner three doesn't have to be only 22 feet anymore.  Make the line a uniform 23'9".

bronxblue

March 16th, 2021 at 2:54 PM ^

Yeah, I don't think they should try to litigate out the value of 3s as much as raise the values of other shots.  Honestly, one of the things I'd really like to see is that fouls on 3-pt shots is given the same 2 shots as any other play.  One of the most obnoxious trends in the NBA is the Harden/Paul "foul on my shitty 3pt attempt" roulette that grinds games down.  That would lower the value of 3s a bit from an offensive philosophy as well as, you hope, encourage more shots inside the arc.

jmblue

March 16th, 2021 at 2:18 PM ^

I can sort of see it, in the sense that they are a historic power going through a rough stretch.  But their situation is harder to understand.  There is plenty of basketball talent in the Midwest.  You don't have to recruit nationally to be competitive, like Midwestern schools do in football.  There are no structural barriers to IU being elite in basketball.  They've just underachieved.

Blue Vet

March 16th, 2021 at 12:56 PM ^

Brian, I'm surprised you didn't mention that the NCAA quietly altered its tournament safety protocol for Pitino pere. (2-day wait after arrival "adjusted" to 1-day.)

mGrowOld

March 16th, 2021 at 1:01 PM ^

Way back before most of you young'ins were born Michigan played in the 1976 National Championship game and lost to undefeated Indiana.  The next year we brought back virtually every player and were ranked #1 in the pre-season and held that ranking through most of the 1977 season and that squad led by Rickey Green, Phil Hubbard, Steve Grote (the grittiest of grit players), John Robinson and Dave Baxter rolled.

That team finished the Big 10 season at 16-2 were the league champions with an overall record of 24-3 and were ranked #1 in the country heading into the tournament.  But sometime during their 2nd game against University of Detroit (led by Dickie V i might add) Quicksilver Lightning, also known as Rickey Green, broke something in his right shooting hand.  He played through it in the regional final against UNCC but it was clear very early in that game he was a shell of himself and one of the best Michigan teams in my lifetime went down to defeat.

So yes, you gotta go back a while but unfortunately having a great basketball team lose a key player when it matters most isnt something we're a stranger to.   Hopefully the outcome this time will be different.

DennisFranklinDaMan

March 16th, 2021 at 1:09 PM ^

Nothing much to add, but I was ten and living in Ann Arbor at the time, and Rickey Green was my first-ever favorite Michigan basketball player. The man was fast. Surprisingly long career in the NBA, too -- so long (14 years), and so under-the-radar, that by the end of his career few people even remembered his connection to Ann Arbor.

Huh. Just checked. Apparently he scored the five millionth point in NBA history. Who knew?

mGrowOld

March 16th, 2021 at 1:18 PM ^

Nice.  

Hey back in 2016 I was heading into Quicken Loans arena to watch game 6 of the NBA finals and ran into a familiar face in the lobby.  We sang "The Victors" loudly enough to piss off most of the other fans there but nobody said anything because i was singing with a very popular ex-Cavalier who just happened to be on that 1977 Michigan basketball team (and the Olympic team I might add)