parts of the stadium experience can't be recreated at home [Patrick Barron]

Not-Really-Hoops Mailbag: Watching From Home, Coulda-Been Decathletes, Lots of Music Comment Count

Ace May 21st, 2020 at 12:54 PM

If you missed it, I covered questions on basketball rule changes, hoops attrition under Juwan Howard vs. John Beilein, and a little off-topic stuff here. Today's mostly veers into OT territory. There may be some ska content. Skantent? I'm fine, everything is fine.

True Home Games

This is going to be a little different for me than many of you since I've been going to games for work, not as a casual fan, since 2011. Although that doesn't necessarily change the experience as much as you might think, my answer of "being able to have audible emotions again" doesn't apply to most people used to watching in person.

I most miss the parts of the experience you can't recreate at home. If they even bother to show them on television, the band's pregame performance, the drum major back bend, the team touching the banner, that moment when the crowd roars in anticipation as the national anthem ends—none of it hits the same. I miss walking my traditional route from my childhood home to the stadium, passing tailgate after tailgate along the way. I miss the people in the press box who've gone from colleagues to friends.

Most of all, I miss the rush of writing the recap while looking over the mostly empty field and trying to live-transcribe as they air the postgame presser on the press box televisions, or doing the same sitting in the Crisler Center press room while sorting through photos and pulling quotes from the coach statements and player breakout sessions. Those were among my favorite moments on the job.

you don't get this on the teevee [Eric Upchurch]

That said, there are parts of the home viewing experience that I greatly prefer to going to games. Those used to spending a huge portion of their weekend—or even an hour in traffic—traveling to and from Michigan Stadium may find the lack of hassle refreshing, especially when it allows one to consume a good deal more football that day. My couch is comfortable. There are no lines for the bathroom. I set the menu. I can check in on other games or even utilize multiple screens to watch them simultaneously. I can see replays that aren't in pore-o-vision and take advantage of my DVR.

If you don't feel too dorky doing it, creating your own viewing-at-home traditions helps make up for the loss of the in-stadium pageantry. The marching band has released several albums over the years and you can find a lot of their work on YouTube—I'll have this going at high volume before big games. Before I stopped drinking, I had a traditional postgame bourbon. I call the same friend after every game.

I also keep this in mind: there are a lot of Michigan fans and only so many have the privilege of getting inside the Michigan Stadium gates. I had a particularly fun way to watch games for eight years. Even if I never make it back, I'll always feel lucky to have had that experience. Keeping that perspective has made it a lot easier to enjoy, and appreciate, watching from home.

[Hit THE JUMP for the revenue sport athlete who would've been the best decathlete, a bunch of music questions, and a Beilein/Cavs/Michigan hypothetical.]

The Lost Decathlete

spoiler alert [Fuller]

Let's start with getting a sense of the typical high-level decathlete:

Since decathletes score over a wide range of points on the scoring tables there is a wide range of shapes, sizes and body types. But as one gets closer to world-class level the sizes get remarkably similar, averaging about 6-0 to 6-3 in height and 180 to 200 pounds. This may be an "ideal" size.

There are some variations since there's more than one way to win a decathlon, which has events ranging from the 100-meter dash to the shot put—components that require two entirely different set of skills.

My mind instantly went to Jabrill Peppers. He finished his Michigan career listed at 6'1", 205 pounds after bulking up a bit to play quasi-linebacker. He ran a 10.52 100-meter dash in high school. Given the picture leading this section, the high jump seems to be in his wheelhouse. At the NFL combine, he posted a respectable 19 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press and an explosive 10'8" broad jump. As a track star with a lot of natural strength, Peppers feels like an obvious choice.

I only thought about players I've had the chance to watch in person, though. I fully expect Seth to provide an extensive list of Michigan athletes of yore who excelled in multiple sports. Don't feel slighted, Bennie Oosterbaan, I wasn't alive yet.

Musical Interlude: RATM, The Last Dance, Worst of Swing, Best of Ska

I can't answer this question objectively. While I love everything Rage Against The Machine put out, up to and including the covers album Renegades, only one of their CDs took up near-permanent residence in my car for a good portion of high school: The Battle of Los Angeles. Absolute fire from beginning to end.

Since people were ranking the four albums in my mentions, I feel obligated to do the same:

  1. The Battle of Los Angeles — I should probably apologize to my brother for how often he had to hear this while I drove him to school at 7:30 am.
  2. Rage Against The Machine — the first two tracks will blow your shoes off your feet, one of the greatest debuts ever.
  3. Evil Empire — "Bulls on Parade" is arguably the best RATM song ever but the back half of this one isn't as strong as the other two.
  4. Renegades — while I love a few songs on here, chiefly "Renegades of Funk," I don't often listen to the whole album.

All four are at least very good. RATM: good. This is an original opinion.

First off, while there were some problems with The Last Dance—letting your subject essentially have the final cut of a documentary is a bit of an issue—the music was damn near perfect. Someone compiled it on Spotify and there's also a playlist on YouTube. The choice of Beastie Boys's "The Maestro" to back a Dennis Rodman highlight reel was particularly inspired; ditto using KRS-One's thunderous voice to soundtrack MJ's 63-point game against Boston. It's difficult to find a moment where it felt like they chose the wrong track.

The soundtrack hit on a huge swath of my favorite rap artists from the late '80s and '90s, so I'm going to make this a little more difficult on myself by only picking songs by artists that weren't included. Apologies to Mobb Deep's "Survival of the Fittest" for being most directly impacted by this rule.

Again, it's hard to say the people who put together The Last Dance made a musical misstep. That was a very fun, albeit flawed, documentary.

Because of how the formatting works on this site, I'm going 1-5, with one being the least embarrassing:

  1. The Brian Setzer Orchestra. The name isn't ridiculous, their songs were catchy, and the band could rip. I played The Dirty Boogie on CD more than I care to recall.
  2. Squirrel Nut Zippers. So, yeah, the name is ridiculous. Get used to that. You cannot say how much you like a band named "Squirrel Nut Zippers" and sound like a serious person. That said, while their lineup cycled through a lot of members, Andrew Bird—one of my favorite solo artists—appeared on three of their records during the 1996-98 swing revival peak. They composed some snappy singles and showed a surprising amount of restraint in the absurd hat department.
  3. Big Bad Voodoo Daddy. There's at least a good story behind this ridiculous name involving blues legend Albert Collins. Got so big that they were a prominent part of the Swingers soundtrack, played the halftime show of Super Bowl XXXIII, and were the house band for the ESPYs for two years. That all sounds well and good; they also leaned harder into the swing revival look than anyone else and I'm catching serious second-hand embarrassment.
  4. Royal Crown Revue. One the one hand, they're credited with starting the swing revival movement. One the other hand, they're credited with starting the swing revival movement.
  5. Cherry Poppin' Daddies. It's not even close. They named their band... that. A bunch of white guys from Eugene, Oregon named their breakout album Zoot Suit Riot, after one of the darkest moments of racist violence in American history. By comparison, incorporating ska into their music and thereby tainting my beloved flash-in-the-pan genre of the time by association is an insignificant offense. 

How did we let the '90s happen? Anyway...

I'll keep this shorter.

  1. Less Than Jake. Either horribly sold out or did a good job of transitioning to pop-punk, depending on your point of view. There's a sweet spot they hit in the middle there.
  2. Catch 22/Streetlight Manifesto. There's so much crossover between these two groups in personnel—and they also released two versions of literally the same album—that I can't separate them. Helped greatly by strong musicianship and playing songs that weren't all ridiculously upbeat.
  3. The Slackers. Didn't get as big as some of these groups but their stuff holds up better than most thanks to a grimier sound than the usual ska fare.
  4. Reel Big Fish. Epitomizes the absurdity of the ska movement but "Beer" is an all-time great track.
  5. Big D and the Kids Table. Purely nostalgia because of the dangerous levels of non-irony and Boston contained therein. 

I deserve all of your scorn.

WolverCavs

Hey Ace,

How many games would John Beilein have won with the Cavs with an all Michigan Alumni team?  Probably more than he did with the Cavs squad he had, right?  Feel free to change up the rotation or positions below if you want to organize it in a better way.

1) Trey Burke, Derrick Walton
2) Caris LeVert, Tim Hardaway Jr, Jordan Poole
3) Duncan Robinson, Iggy
4) Glenn Robinson III, DJ Wilson
5) Mo Wagner, Mitch McGary (to at least hold up the “Win the Game” sign)

Head Coach: John Beilein

Bonus: What other Michigan Basketball alums would you use that are playing in the G-League, Internationally, or that are even retired to fill out the rest of the roster for either depth or entertainment value?  Mitch clearly fits this category.

-Kevin McCarthy

I hate to say it: this team is worse than the Cavaliers.

At the one, Collin Sexton may be flawed but he's shown the ability to be a high-level scorer. Trey Burke, meanwhile, is a fringe backup with major defensive limitations, and Derrick Walton has played in 42 games across three seasons for three different teams, none of which held onto him afterwards. It's a bad sign when you're hoping to coax Jamal Crawford out of retirement to start, something he hasn't done regularly since 2009. He's also 40 and, again, retired. (My other roster change to the above, by the way, would be swapping out Iggy Brazdeikis for Nik Stauskas.)

There's strength for the Michigan squad on the wing with LeVert, Hardaway (who deserves a starting spot after a strong year), Duncan Robinson, and GRIII, and this team's best approach may be to allow LeVert to handle the point, but that leaves the team perilously thin and it's an awkward defensive fit. There isn't really a viable four on the roster; DJ Wilson fell out of Milwaukee's rotation while shooting below 40% from the field and GRIII is closer to an NBA shooting guard than he is a power forward.

Add in having one true big man who can't play defense and this team would get torched. Moe Wagner vs. Andre Drummond could get ugly, there's nobody to guard Kevin Love, and the offensive firepower isn't there to make up for the serious defensive problems. Beilein would probably be trying to bring Jordan Morgan back from Turkey just to get a body up front.

Sorry. Being good in the NBA is very, very difficult.

I have a couple spots for bench mob types. Given my previous writings on the matter, I have to go with Andrew Dakich and Corey Person. This team is keeping a short rotation anyway.

Comments

allezbleu

May 21st, 2020 at 1:23 PM ^

Cavs would beat the pro M team but I think it would be close. Right now, Caris is easily the best player on both teams. You can make the argument that the top 4 players on the pro M team (Caris, Duncan, Hardaway, Mo) are better than the top 4 players on the Cavs (Sexton, Love, Drummond, Garland). But like Ace said this M team would have serious holes in the front court and at PG (although Poole would be my choice for PG--that's where he plays for the Warriors and he's shown flashes of being potentially serviceable). Also the Cavs would have a huge advantage in terms of depth. M only has decent wings and Burke off the bench.

The key is that some of that gap would be made up by the M players actually buying into Beilein's coaching and playing smarter offense. And having way better team chemistry and not being a bunch of punks.

MGolem

May 21st, 2020 at 1:42 PM ^

I think this is a harsh take on DJ Wilson, who could 100% guard Kevin Love. Milwaukee has one of the deepest, most experienced front lines in the league. When Wilson gets minutes he looks like he is pressing. I would argue it is hard not to when you almost never get to play. He was having a solid season last year and would do well with a change of scenery. I thought Portland should have gone after him via trade when all their bigs decided to get hurt at the same time. 

allezbleu

May 21st, 2020 at 1:59 PM ^

It's not harsh. Wilson's hugely talented. It wouldn't surprise me if he became an all star in 4 years (or if he's out of the league). But until he demonstrates that he can be a viable rotation piece at least for an extended period of time I don't know if you can even hypothetically pit him against NBA starters. And especially not against a 5 time all star like Kevin Love. But I agree with you that M would need to gamble on him since he's really the only other big besides Mo.

MGolem

May 21st, 2020 at 4:12 PM ^

I was at a Bucks game last year where Bud had Wilson on Joel Embiid and he did quite well. Love may be a former all-star and good shooter but that does not mean he is in any way unguardable, especially because Wilson's athleticism could give Love problems. Wilson gets no minutes because he is behind the best power forward in the game, and a slew of veterans (the Lopez brothers, Marvin Williams, and the always steady Ersan Ilyasova - a Bud favorite).

ak47

May 21st, 2020 at 2:29 PM ^

I'd honestly be shocked if if the Michigan alumni team won a game in 10 game series against the Cavs, its not even all that close.

Now if you had a 10 minute best 5 vs best 5 I could see Caris being the best player on either team taking over, but Caris isn't a Lebron level difference maker that could take the team over the top.

Tacopants

May 21st, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^

While Garland may have a high potential ceiling he's nowhere close to being the 4th best player on the Cavs right now, which would either be Nance or Thompson. He is the worst starting PG in the league and it's not even close. In almost every advanced statistical metric he's either worst or second worst for any qualified player.

 

In fact, the only player that's in the same range of awful results is... Jordan Poole. There is no evidence that Poole is even close to Trey Burke's level of play, and Trey Burke is a replacement level PG.

 

A Michigan-Cavs game would see M get cooked on the interior offensively and the Cavs likely rebound a huge percentage of their misses. They would need another quality stretch 5/more outside shooting to even remain competitive.

RAH

May 21st, 2020 at 8:17 PM ^

There's no chance that a team of the best individuals as they are now would have a chance.

 

A more interesting question would involve a hypothetical U of M team made up of the best individuals if they were put together in a team as they were when they left U of M and had been coached by Belien as a team for 4 or 5 years. I'm assuming they would then have a much better shot. 

BiaBiakabutuka21

May 21st, 2020 at 11:47 PM ^

I am the one that emailed Ace this mailbag question and something that I should have communicated better is that John Beilein is the hypothetical coach of both of these teams.  So would the disfunction of the current Cavs team possibly outweigh them being more individually talented?  Would the willingness of the all alumni team to buy in and know the nuances of the system allow for them to compensate for the lack of talent?

I still don't know the answer to that but suspect they would probably still lose as individual talent is so much more important in the NBA.  

JeepinBen

May 21st, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^

Agreed on the music for the Last Dance. Damn near perfect if not perfect. Did the documentary get a little into hero worship? Of course. Was it still capital-A AWESOME? Hell yeah. 

The Maestro was super perfect. 3 weird Jewish kids from New York had the perfect soundtrack for Dennis Rodman. 

Who is the man comin' down your block?
It's me you see, with the funk in my walk ('cause)
I'm doin' just what I like to
Today is my day yeah, and I'ma get nice too
You gotta keep movin', and you can't say nothing
I'ma keep bouncin' and bumpin' and stuffin'
One thing you ought to know, well, I am the maestro

...

Cause it's the type of day I feel like pressing my luck
'Cause I got nothing to lose, cause I don't give a fuck
See I'm a player, I play, don't play to win, I play to show (yeah)
I'm the maestro

 

I'd also say that they did a great job using local artists for things - Outkast for the Atlanta game, etc. 

L'Carpetron Do…

May 21st, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^

I don't know man, Battle of LA is pretty great but that debut self-titled RATM was a freaking masterpiece. And it came out in 1992 - so ridiculously ahead of its time. But then again its time still really hasn't come. Maybe it exists outside of time. 

A close buddy of mine is a huge Rage fan but doesn't care for Renegades. I disagree - it's not their best work and was a throw-away album so they could fill their contract obligations IIRC - but its pretty fun and has some great tracks, Maggie's Farm and Ghost of Tom Joad specifically. It also introduced me to new stuff like Springsteen's original of GOTJ and Rakim. I became a huge Rakim fan thanks to Renegades. 

Shop Smart Sho…

May 21st, 2020 at 2:34 PM ^

I've found there is an age gap on their first album. If you were a teen/college student when it came out it's your favorite. If you're Ace's age it ends up slipping down the rankings. Think it must be a time and place issue.

No one that your average white kid from Middle America was listening to in 1992 said those things explicitly about the government and society. Even rappers that were anti-establishment were more likely to be taking shots at local government. 

AC1997

May 21st, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^

I'm glad I made myself scroll thru the music questions to get to the last one.  That's pretty interesting.  I guess the lack of bigs isn't a surprise given how Beilein's tenure played out.  But I have a few other suggestions:

  • Iggy is still in your rotation on the wing, but you're right to add Stauskas as a bench player.
  • I agree with the idea of starting Caris at the 1.  
  • Instead of bringing back Morgan...I'd just add Teske and Epke Udoh to this roster.  Neither are great options, but at least they can match up conventionally at the 4 & 5. 
  • If he's healthy, you might want Charles Matthews around to play defense, which is going to be a big problem for this roster.

I think my lineup looks like this....

  1. Levert 
  2. THJ
  3. Robinson
  4. Udoh
  5. Wagner
  6. Burke
  7. GR3
  8. Teske
  9. Wilson
  10. Stauskas
  11. Iggy
  12. Matthews
  13. Walton
  14. Poole

 

ak47

May 21st, 2020 at 5:42 PM ^

That lineup would struggle defensively in the G league let alone at the NBA level. You've got 3 starter that are straight up defensive liabilities in the NBA in THJ, Robinson, and Wagner and a guy who was barely clinging to the back of nba rosters during his prime which he is most certainly past.

kurpit

May 21st, 2020 at 2:17 PM ^

Your exclusion of Mephiskapeheles to your ska list is a travesty. TRAVESTY!

I didn't know Andrew Bird was once in the Squirrel Nut Zippers. That's wild.

Baby Bark

May 21st, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^

I go: 1) Evil Empire. 2) BoLA 3) RATM 4) Renegades but agree that they are all very good. I really like the back half of Evil Empire with Down Rodeo and Year of the Boomerang being some of my favorite RATM songs. 

matty blue

May 21st, 2020 at 4:26 PM ^

man, i couldn't agree more on the stuff i look forward to when the games return.  mostly non-game stuff - my longtime (and kinda weird) driving route to the stadium, where my girlfriend and i park, the walk to revelli to see the drumline, walking with the band to the stadium, then the pregame stuff. 

the only in-game stuff i miss is the conversations during play with other fans.  my girlfriend is a huge fan, and puts up with my running commentary when it's just us, but i love having a 3 1/2 hour football talk with six random people.

and i always bring it up, because i'm an old fart - while i love the in-stadium experience, i with they'd just stop with the earsplitting music at every break.  let the band play. 

njsteve

May 22nd, 2020 at 1:48 AM ^

It's hard to believe Braylon Edwards wouldn't have put up a good decathlon performance. He ran track in some seasons at Michigan, competing in sprints and high jump (6'11"). Unlike Peppers (and Tyrone Wheatley, former Big Ten hurdle champ) I can picture Braylon closing out a 1500m with some dignity. He put up 22 bench press reps in the NFL combine, suggesting the throws wouldn't kill him, either.

Mr.Jim

May 22nd, 2020 at 10:29 AM ^

If Michigan plays the season with an empty stadium during home games, it will be interesting to see how many current season ticket holders find that they enjoy watching the Wolverines on television enough that they chose not to renew their season tickets.  

shoes

May 22nd, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^

Your second paragraph about what you would miss about not attending games is spot on for me.

As to good decathletes among former Michigan football players, I always thought that Thom Darden would be a good one.

L'Carpetron Do…

May 22nd, 2020 at 10:47 AM ^

I loved the use of Prince's "Partyman" when Jordan comes into his own around 1990 and is undeniably the best player in the world. Naughty by Nature's "Hip Hop Hooray" as well as the Stereo MC's "Connected" during the 1993 playoffs were also excellent choices.

Roanman

May 22nd, 2020 at 9:08 PM ^

I still really like Take On Me. Thought it made a nice stab at the essence of Ska by demonstrating a real nice combination of a lack of seriousness and gigantic balls.

Dance Hall Crashers still have some tunes on my short list.