Stephen I think you are one of the best posters here, but this is such a tired trope. It essentially boils down to "good play = Gattis, bad play = Harbaugh". The counterfactual is that literally every insider on both 247 and Rivals have unequivocally stated that Gattis is in complete control of the play-calling and game-planning. Furthermore, the scheme that has been deployed by during the Gattis years looks NOTHING like Harbaugh's Stanford/49ers attacks when it comes to personnel: no fullbacks, little emphasis on throwing to TEs, and going exclusively out of shotgun with no pistol just to name a few differences.
The one thing that is fair is that Harbaugh likely does influence overall strategy, but let's dive deeper into specifics. Harbaugh, at his core, is a believer in a strong gap running scheme that creates new holes where the defense doesn't expect it, with Inside Zone as a changeup. Prior to this year, once Gattis joined, we have switched to being a primarily zone running team with gap as changeup, with heavy emphasis on Inside Zone, Split Zone, Arc Zone, and then Down G as the changeup. Having a zone running scheme better aligns w/ the reads and the deception built into Moorehead's scheme. No way that's Harbaugh. This year, with the help of Weiss, we've focused on installing more gap focused runs: Counter, Pin & Pull, Power, and then Split Zone and Inside Zone as changes. And it's worked to perfection - we essentially countered Washington to death!
Now let's dive into the run game vs. Rutgers. After annihilating 3 teams with a gap-based attack, we revert to 60/40 zone runs, primarily Inside Zone and Split Zone. I just don't understand why! But it's not Harbaugh's offenses that have historically relied on zone runs. And don't get me started with not trying the edges, and that's 100% on Gattis. They tested the edges numerous times against Washington, even when it was getting blown up, to keep them honest. But, for some reason, Harbaugh tells Gattis to stop doing it against Rutgers? Huh? Did you see the post-game sideline interview w/ Harbaugh? He specifically said we tried running outside the one time and it worked. And he sounded REALLY annoyed saying that. Almost as if he couldn't understand why is OC decided not to call those sooner.
With regards to Gattis and the passing game, they called 6 passes as part of the 12 plays that comprised their 2nd half 3 and outs. Drive #1 went: pass (8yds), run (1yd), run (0yd); Drive #2 went: pass (Inc), pass (Inc), pass (scramble); Drive #3 went: run (1yd), run (4yds), pass (Inc). Does that sequence look like a guy who is determined to always establish the line of scrimmage and only pass if absolutely needed? Also, Harbaugh has been pretty open about how the offensive brain trust works. In 2017 and 2018 he openly said it was OC by committee. And he defended because that's how it had always worked his entire career, going back to Bo's days. When Gattis was hired, Harbaugh explicitly said he's handed all play-calling responsibilities to Gattis. And Gattis has reiterated that multiple times. Contrast that to Pep in 2018, when he explicitly said "this is what Jim wants". If Gattis has HC aspirations, and he feels like he doesn't have play-call responsibilities, there's no reason why he wouldn't make that known in some way.
Where I will agree is that Jim probably does tell Gattis that he wants the identity of the offense to be run-first. Nothing wrong with that! It's on Gattis to then install the best run plays and then create the appropriate pass plays out of it. We are relying on Gattis to make a synergistic run and pass game that puts our athletes in the best position to make plays. And, against Rutgers, Gattis' run calls were absolute garbage. That being said, his pass plays had people open! But Cade hit next to nothing outside of that first pass. Thing is, Cade had been hitting those passes all year, and all game up to that point. 2nd half Rutgers was a lot like his game against Washington. He was just off.
Now let's visit the whole QB thing that I just feel is so overblown. Has Harbaugh been good to great? No - and that is disappointing. But he hasn't been destroying his QBs either. Let's go one-by-one:
2015: Jake Ruddock - improved exponentially from Utah to the bowl game; got drafted!
2016: Speight absolutely improved from Hawaii to Iowa, then broke his collarbone, and did not play well against OSU and FSU (tbh, he was having a bad game against Iowa before the injury; off day)
2017: Speight - he did regress, but the OL was also an absolute mess that literally got his back broken. See Devin Gardner for what can happen when the OL doesn't protect you. And it was also when they replaced Jedd Fisch with Pep, and Speight and Pep didn't vibe in the same way. Remember, Pep was essentially the QB coach- we had grad assistants coaching the WRs <facepalm>. O'Korn - he literally stayed the same. He was not great to begin with (2016 Indiana) and he was not great to end (2017 Ohio State). He had one game against Purdue...but...it was one game. Peters - I don't know how you could say he regressed. He came in against Rutgers because O'Korn stunk it up, and then started two games, wasn't asked to do much. And then got decapitated against Wisconsin and was concussed. Then he had a bad bowl game against South Carolina, his first game in over 2 months, as a Redshirt Freshman. Unless you're saying he regressed/didn't improve because he couldn't beat out Shea? I just don't see how that's reasonable. Does Ryan Day suck because he couldn't develop Tate Martell and got Justin Fields?
2018: Shea certainly improved from the Notre Dame game onwards. He never turned into a world beater, but he was quite good by the end.
2019: Shea regressed, but, you know, it's almost as if he had to learn a completely different system under a brand new coordinator. Weird.
2020: Milton - Joe Milton has convinced two separate QB gurus (Harbaugh and Heupel) that he was the man to be at QB. So I don't think Milton is an indictment of Harbaugh. And, when he gets in games, he just can't handle it. At Michigan and at Tennessee. I really do believe that he is probably one of the best practice performers of all time. I think it's also fair to say he was a LOT better when he left than when he got in.
Harbaugh hasn't been a game-changing QB developer, which is disappointing. But this narrative that he "breaks all his QBs" is just an overreaction to Speight and Shea. And there were other, more likely causes for those regressions (OL for Speight, new system for Shea). The crazy thing in Harbaugh's entire tenure, Speight is the only returning starter who returned in the same offensive system. And we fucked that whole year up because the line was such dog shit. Nuts! Why is that relevant, see below:
QB A per game averages: 13/24 (56.3%); 215 yards; 1.1/0.33 TD/INT
QB B per game averages: 10/16 (61.3 %); 120 yards; 1/0 TD/INT
QB A is Andrew Luck. QB B is Cade. For all the revisionist history that Luck was an obvious generational talent, he was the #42 player and #3 QB coming out of HS, same ballpark as Peters and JJ (below Shea, higher than Cade). And, his R FR year, he wasn't exactly tearing it up. Stanford went 9-5 and rode Toby Gerhart all year. And there were more than a few 11/24, 14/20, 7/14 (Washington LOL) games. But, in Year 2 as a starter, Andrew Luck went boom and had >3000 yards passing and >30 TDs and Stanford finished 11-1.
Does that mean Cade is Andrew Luck? No! But what this does indicate is that the QB story under Harbaugh is the same problem as the rest of the team: structure. Disorganized recruiting (2017 OL, 2019 DL, 2020 DB) and shifting offensive systems (2017 --> 2018, 2018 --> 2019) has led to sub-optimal results overall. This has led to the good, but just good enough of 2017, 2018, and 2019. Last year was an absolute tire fire, but that's really been aberration his entire coaching career thus far. This offseason, he finally invested in building out a true recruiting operation that doesn't dump a lot of responsibility on his position coaches' plates. He's brought in a more sustainable defensive philosophy for modern college football, and he's prioritized bring in coaches who are excellent at relating to players. Direction makes sense to me.
The situation with Cade is a big TBD. But, overall (not just 2nd half Rutgers), the returns look good! I love his decision making, his overall ball placement, and his deep ball accuracy. But things seriously spiral with him; when he makes a couple mistakes, it usually leads to an avalanche of more negatives, as seen against Washington and Rutgers. Big problem in a sport where adversity is guaranteed, especially in the biggest stages.
If we're going to win against Wisconsin, both Gattis and Cade need to show up. But one thing is almost certain: Gattis is in complete control of the play-calling. So Harbaugh is not the one calling Inside Zone up the middle. Gattis just chose exceptionally poorly for the running attack overall against Rutgers. Gap is the way.
I completely missed that possibility that you and Flag brought up re: All not being the intended receiver. Entirely possible! In that case CJ needs to be more aware and understand what the defense is doing
Agree on the blocking concerns. I broke down all 15 passes and made a Diary post on it. The main conclusion is that it was mostly failed blocks that prevented the bubbles/swings from working. Cade had a couple bad reads, one bad throw, and a couple of the playcalls weren't great. But, overall, I think everything's fixable.
Yeah I wouldn't consider #4 a drop. It would be a tough catch, but he had both hands on it. I don't think he gets blasted short because CJ will be blocking/obstructing the LB in front of him, and the DB that screams into the picture only does so after the pass falls on the ground. If All catches, he just needs to go vertical and fall forward when he gets contacted. So I'm pretty sure he'd get the conversion. But I may be wrong on the physics of that.
I agree re: #9 after rewatching. The snap definitely surprised Cade. And yes, the blocking left A LOT to be desired. But, like I said, I think those are more about taking the correct angles than anything else. They'll improve. And now they understand how a good secondary will attack them.
Yeah they didn't have play action outside of the bubble screen/swing pass reads. I think the biggest factor in the staff going cautious was because of all the different post-snaps looks that UW was giving. Harbaugh mentioned in the press conference that UW was throwing the kitchen sink defensively in terms of alignments and tendencies. And I think Cade is still working on effectively processing post-snap pictures that differ from his pre-snap assessment. That, combined with the receivers' liability blocking the basic bubbles and swings, probably convinced them to stick with the run until UW proved they could stop it.
Ha, played in HS but I forgot most of what I learned from back then. But I've built up a basic understanding of how things should work from a passing perspective.
Yes and no. I think the primary reason they didn't dial more up was what Washington was doing in terms of alignments, personnel, and post-snap mix-ups. Specifically, I'm guessing the post-snap hijinks worried them the most. Combine that with the fact that we weren't executing our basic bubble and swing passes that are the constraints for the run game, that would encourage them to stick with the run game until it was stopped.
There will be more opportunities to smooth out the pass game wrinkles.
What makes you have that feeling?? He’s clearly the best DT we have. And I disagree that we’re paper thin at the position. We have Solomon, Dwumfour, Kemp, and Jeter at DT. DE is a bit thin since we have Paye, Hutchinson, and Uche. Also we have Hinton and Smith incoming for DT. For DE, we have a chance at closing for Harrison and Karlaftis (assuming the loss to OSU doesn’t change the calculus for Harrison and that Brohm leaves Louisville). Additionally, Villain is an X-factor. If he finally gets healthy, he is quite promising.
That’s the thing: he doesn’t need an all-world QB to execute on the Stanford game plan. A QB at Shea’s level can pull it off; he’ll probably score less though.
Your other point is the bigger one. 16 of 18 by OSU, and we as a fan base are going batshit over it. We’re placing the entirety of that 16/18 on Harbaugh’s shoulders, which is silly. He’s responsible for 4, no more, no less.
The BPONE is alive and well for OSU, but I put this diary together in order to point out that we don’t have a tire fire program that will take drastic changes to get to OSU level. The DTs will be better next year (DE may be more of a tossup, but we have talent there). We’re getting more explosive athletes. And, even if we’re stuck with Pep, the offense will be better due to continued OL and WR development, along w/ the QB being more comfortable w/ the offense.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure #2 vs #3 in 2016 was bigger.
The result today sucked. But it doesn't negate the other 11 games, and doesn't negate the fact that things are getting better. There definitely seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. But we'll see.
I was saying that DTs should be better. But yeah, DE could be a trouble spot w/ only Paye and maybe Uche. Vilain is always hurt, though Hutchinson did seem very promising. But then again, the DE position has always been strong since Mattison has been here.
The entire opening sequence (the scripted plays) were mostly quick passes. The story was that they were NOT feeding Higdon. Things only turned around when they actually started running to set up the pass again.
If that is how Tressel completely fucked us in Ohio, it seems like all of the OH HS coaches went right along with it and completely locked us out of all the talent. Aside from the fact that they intentionally limited their athletes' choices, they completely ignored the relationships that were built that up to that point. As you said, Michigan had hit OH hard for decades under Bo, Mo, and Lloyd. So obviously they built great relationships with all of the HS coaches that spanned years and years. However, as soon as Tressel came along, all of the HS coaches abandoned those relationships and locked us out. So, my question, why should we invest so much time and effort into OH when it's clear that the OH HS coaches don't give a rat's ass about whatever relationship/effort we put in? In fact, it sounds like Harbaugh's approach is going to insulate us from a Tressel situation going forward - the geographical diversity of recruits makes it harder for any one program to fuck us.
I say stay the course - OSU will get its fill, and then us and MSU gets the tablescraps from the state of Ohio. I think the only way this changes meaningfully is if we become dominant again and start winning big games. Then we come into OH and compete. Honestly, as long as OSU has Meyer there, I think our recruiting in OH will pretty much be their recruiting in MI. When the program is down, we'll get to take some top recruits. And when it's great, we're SOL.
Hey MichiganMan14! I personally, and I know many other posters, appreciate your contributions. You have experience playing D1 football at a major program and you understand the difference between youth struggles and coaching malpractice. You and Reader71 are the posters I follow the most.
I appreciate your input, and I was wondering your thoughts on these observations:
1. The line is getting better at run blocking and marginally improving in pass blocking (7 sacks I know, but they do look better than they did against Purdue and MSU). They just need to gain more experience and get a better RT.
2. The running plan seems to be gap blocking as a base, with IZ as constraints - this makes sense and seems like the best approach
3. The passing game is a complete tire fire, and I'm not sure that it's all on O'Korn's shoulders. The plays are simplistic in design, long-developing, and lack the elegance/intelligence that create free yards and easy completions on off-schedule throws.
4. Additionally, the receivers are not getting much separation, but I don't know that they are being put in a place to succeed.
5. It sounds like all the pass plays are designed, coached, and implemented by Pep, with some input from Drev. And then those plays are essentially menu options for Drev to call; he's not the primary designer.
6. The running backs keep blowing pass blocking assignments, and they don't seem to be utilitzed as well as they could/should be in the pass game - I'd say, again, this is mostly on Pep for his mediocre play designs, but also a bit on Drev for not using common sense on this.
Conclusions:
1. Pep needs to go. He's been a complete disaster for this team.
2. Drev doesn't inspire a ton of confidence, but if you accept that the pass plays are simply menu items for him that were designed by Pep, it makes more sense on why the pass play calls leave so much to be desired (though PA on 4th and 11...yeah). I wouldn't be broken up if Drev is shit canned, but I think there may be a case to give him another year, or, at the very least, keep him as interior OL coach.
3. This running back rotation nonsense is really starting to grate - it didn't happen much with Wheatley in charge, so I have to assume that JayBaugh is responsible. Additionally, the pass blocking leaves so much to be desired, which I again put on coaching for putting guys who can't block in the game, or not teaching the techniques soundly.
4. QB play needs to improve - I think it's something that is in a good place w/ Harbaugh in charge. The guy has a great track record, and I fully trust him to fix it.
Actions:
1. Shit can Pep
2. Move JayBaugh to ST and bring in Mike Hart or someone at that level to coach RB
3. Bring in a dedicated WR coach who can design a more lethal passing game that plays to the strengths of the QB and the WRs. If this guy needs to be an OC, then demote Drev and keep him as run game coordinator and have him coach the interior OL.
4. *Optional* If Harbaugh demotes Drev, and he doesn't accept it and leaves, I'd say bring in Greg Roman to coach the interior OL.
The team he took over won the Rose Bowl the year before their 6-7 season. Jim Tressel built that program into a monster; there was a one season speed bump w/ Fickel, and then Meyer came. You are completely dense if you don't realize that fucking team was LOADED.
The team he took over won the Rose Bowl the year before their 6-7 season. Jim Tressel built that program into a monster; there was a one season speed bump w/ Fickel, and then Meyer came. You are completely dense if you don't realize that fucking team was LOADED.
Are you high?? You're telling me we lost to Toledo? Got blown out on the regular by any decent team? I guess I missed that we needed a goal line stand to beat....Akron?!
Yeah...I'd suggest you quit drinking and go to bed.
Enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
I'm definitely not suggesting we concede games, but I am managing my expectations a bit more than I did at the beginning of the year. We just gotta hope that O'Korn can marginally improve to wear he's reading 2 routes per pass play instead of 1. That alone will probably markedly improve the pass offense.
Ideally, yes. I'd love to have the Fromm approach, but we don't have the Georgia WRs or Nick Chubb and Sonny Michele. I don't know that it's a viable strategy for Michigan. Which is why I don't think it'll work to throw Peters in there.
Also, I'm 100% sure that Harbaugh's scheme is more complex than Kirby Smart's. Given the O'Korn vs Speight results, I have to believe that if JH believed that Peters was the best option, he'd be playing. Sam was saying Peters mostly fell behind in fall camp because they added a lot more to his plate and he couldn't handle it very well. I don't know how much that has changed 6 games into the season.
If he hung WD's ancestors...how is WD here? I'm quite fond of WD; he was instrumental in getting rid of Brandon, which paved the way for IT'S HAPPENING!!
He brought up his point because this is a thread praising Higdon, and your post reads as "sure Karan's great, but AJ DILLON!!!", which comes across as you passively aggressively dissing our guy and bitching about how we couldn't keep some other guy.
As for why Sparty drops "Wal-Mart" Wolverine is because they subconciously accept that they are a second tier, regional program that no one would have a reason to follow/be a fan of unless they have some sort of direct and/or familial connection to MSU. They're just too stupid to realize that they're making fun of themselves everytime they use that one, which is...par for the course I would say.
Given all that's happened this year, I am really starting to appreciate how difficult it can be to consistently win day in and day out against teams you are better than. Skullduggery hits college football at such a high clip, and giants regularly fall because of that.
The O-line recruiting woes have been highlighted, documented, and, frankly, beaten to death already. Tl;dr: It was a mess when JH got here and it takes time and patience to fix.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
The ship will be righted, and that is quite the achievement given 2008-2014. Let's understand that there are no easy fixes, but continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
Are you actually suggesting that JH, a Pro Bowl NFL QB and an elite QB coach, is NOT telling and coaching these guys to go through progressions and get to checkdowns?! The fact that it isn't happening tells me the players just don't have the mental makeup to get it done. And, unfortunately, there are no viable alternatives.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
Giving you shit is some sort of weird pass-time for some of the other members. But I for one agree with MichiganMan14. And I would I would like to thank you for your part in bringing Jim Harbaugh home. If it wasn't for you bringing down Dave Brandon, there is no chance that JH would've come home. So thank you WD!
The O-line recruiting woes have been highlighted, documented, and, frankly, beaten to death already. Tl;dr: It was a mess when JH got here and it takes time and patience to fix.
And are you actually suggesting that JH, a Pro Bowl NFL QB and an elite QB coach, is NOT telling and coaching these guys to go through progressions and get to checkdowns?! The fact that it isn't happening tells me the players just don't have the mental makeup to get it done. And, unfortunately, there are no viable alternatives.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
"There are teams that are younger than ours that manage a MUCH better O-line and offense in general".
I would LOVE for you to back up that bullshit with an example (I'll wait; just FYI we are the YOUNGEST team in the nation this year).
The O-line recruiting woes have been highlighted, documented, and, frankly, beaten to death already. Tl;dr: It was a mess when JH got here and it takes time and patience to fix.
And are you actually suggesting that JH, a Pro Bowl NFL QB and an elite QB coach, is NOT telling and coaching these guys to go through progressions and get to checkdowns?! The fact that it isn't happening tells me the players just don't have the mental makeup to get it done. And, unfortunately, there are no viable alternatives.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
Sinsoftheschafer has a solid list. The only thing I would add - after hanging out at GG park, saunter on over to El Burrito Express at 26th Ave and Taraval for lunch / dinner. In my opinion, best burrito in the city, and I have tried MANY.
Is this for real? This dude runs a media company and has apparently performed major fund raises/deals. As far as I know, most major deals have an escrow period - at my old investment bank, once an M&A deal was agreed to in principal and entered into close, both parties would wire our fees to an escrow account. Following the execution of the final closing docs, the funds from the escrow account were released to us. From what I understand, escrow is standard operating procedure when finalizing deals - it forces all parties to put skin in the game and therefore promotes substantive negotiations over a reasonable time frame.
It's even more stupid that he said it was "convenient" that the lawyer's email contained the word "escrow" in it. Even if Yoder's dumbass didn't know what escrow was, any corporate lawyer worth his or her salt knows what escrow is.
The story was funny to me because she kept inserting "The" in front of everything, and then concluded by saying she went to "The" OSU. Stereotype confirmed.
I'm not making fun of her for not knowing what C# is (the only reason I know it is because I'm surrounded by geeks here in the Bay); I'm making fun of her (actually, whoever sent my buddy this story is) because she puts "The" in front of things for no reason. Notice the bolded letters in the post? Reading and playing skool isn't a thing for bucknuts I suppose.
C# is a programming language; the recruiter clearly had no clue wtf she was talking about and kept insufferably puttting "The" in front of everything. Naturally, she went to OSU :D
Is this a real story? Or are you just bullshitting? Normally, it'd be obvious that you were just messing around. But, after the last few days, I honestly can't tell anymore. God I hate my life during recruiting season.
Recent Comments
Here’s the thing - OSU had the higher TOP in 2021. So they had plenty of plays. But they were getting smashed apart by the OL, Haskins, and Hutchinson
Stephen I think you are one of the best posters here, but this is such a tired trope. It essentially boils down to "good play = Gattis, bad play = Harbaugh". The counterfactual is that literally every insider on both 247 and Rivals have unequivocally stated that Gattis is in complete control of the play-calling and game-planning. Furthermore, the scheme that has been deployed by during the Gattis years looks NOTHING like Harbaugh's Stanford/49ers attacks when it comes to personnel: no fullbacks, little emphasis on throwing to TEs, and going exclusively out of shotgun with no pistol just to name a few differences.
The one thing that is fair is that Harbaugh likely does influence overall strategy, but let's dive deeper into specifics. Harbaugh, at his core, is a believer in a strong gap running scheme that creates new holes where the defense doesn't expect it, with Inside Zone as a changeup. Prior to this year, once Gattis joined, we have switched to being a primarily zone running team with gap as changeup, with heavy emphasis on Inside Zone, Split Zone, Arc Zone, and then Down G as the changeup. Having a zone running scheme better aligns w/ the reads and the deception built into Moorehead's scheme. No way that's Harbaugh. This year, with the help of Weiss, we've focused on installing more gap focused runs: Counter, Pin & Pull, Power, and then Split Zone and Inside Zone as changes. And it's worked to perfection - we essentially countered Washington to death!
Now let's dive into the run game vs. Rutgers. After annihilating 3 teams with a gap-based attack, we revert to 60/40 zone runs, primarily Inside Zone and Split Zone. I just don't understand why! But it's not Harbaugh's offenses that have historically relied on zone runs. And don't get me started with not trying the edges, and that's 100% on Gattis. They tested the edges numerous times against Washington, even when it was getting blown up, to keep them honest. But, for some reason, Harbaugh tells Gattis to stop doing it against Rutgers? Huh? Did you see the post-game sideline interview w/ Harbaugh? He specifically said we tried running outside the one time and it worked. And he sounded REALLY annoyed saying that. Almost as if he couldn't understand why is OC decided not to call those sooner.
With regards to Gattis and the passing game, they called 6 passes as part of the 12 plays that comprised their 2nd half 3 and outs. Drive #1 went: pass (8yds), run (1yd), run (0yd); Drive #2 went: pass (Inc), pass (Inc), pass (scramble); Drive #3 went: run (1yd), run (4yds), pass (Inc). Does that sequence look like a guy who is determined to always establish the line of scrimmage and only pass if absolutely needed? Also, Harbaugh has been pretty open about how the offensive brain trust works. In 2017 and 2018 he openly said it was OC by committee. And he defended because that's how it had always worked his entire career, going back to Bo's days. When Gattis was hired, Harbaugh explicitly said he's handed all play-calling responsibilities to Gattis. And Gattis has reiterated that multiple times. Contrast that to Pep in 2018, when he explicitly said "this is what Jim wants". If Gattis has HC aspirations, and he feels like he doesn't have play-call responsibilities, there's no reason why he wouldn't make that known in some way.
Where I will agree is that Jim probably does tell Gattis that he wants the identity of the offense to be run-first. Nothing wrong with that! It's on Gattis to then install the best run plays and then create the appropriate pass plays out of it. We are relying on Gattis to make a synergistic run and pass game that puts our athletes in the best position to make plays. And, against Rutgers, Gattis' run calls were absolute garbage. That being said, his pass plays had people open! But Cade hit next to nothing outside of that first pass. Thing is, Cade had been hitting those passes all year, and all game up to that point. 2nd half Rutgers was a lot like his game against Washington. He was just off.
Now let's visit the whole QB thing that I just feel is so overblown. Has Harbaugh been good to great? No - and that is disappointing. But he hasn't been destroying his QBs either. Let's go one-by-one:
Peters - I don't know how you could say he regressed. He came in against Rutgers because O'Korn stunk it up, and then started two games, wasn't asked to do much. And then got decapitated against Wisconsin and was concussed. Then he had a bad bowl game against South Carolina, his first game in over 2 months, as a Redshirt Freshman. Unless you're saying he regressed/didn't improve because he couldn't beat out Shea? I just don't see how that's reasonable. Does Ryan Day suck because he couldn't develop Tate Martell and got Justin Fields?
Harbaugh hasn't been a game-changing QB developer, which is disappointing. But this narrative that he "breaks all his QBs" is just an overreaction to Speight and Shea. And there were other, more likely causes for those regressions (OL for Speight, new system for Shea). The crazy thing in Harbaugh's entire tenure, Speight is the only returning starter who returned in the same offensive system. And we fucked that whole year up because the line was such dog shit. Nuts! Why is that relevant, see below:
QB A is Andrew Luck. QB B is Cade. For all the revisionist history that Luck was an obvious generational talent, he was the #42 player and #3 QB coming out of HS, same ballpark as Peters and JJ (below Shea, higher than Cade). And, his R FR year, he wasn't exactly tearing it up. Stanford went 9-5 and rode Toby Gerhart all year. And there were more than a few 11/24, 14/20, 7/14 (Washington LOL) games. But, in Year 2 as a starter, Andrew Luck went boom and had >3000 yards passing and >30 TDs and Stanford finished 11-1.
Does that mean Cade is Andrew Luck? No! But what this does indicate is that the QB story under Harbaugh is the same problem as the rest of the team: structure. Disorganized recruiting (2017 OL, 2019 DL, 2020 DB) and shifting offensive systems (2017 --> 2018, 2018 --> 2019) has led to sub-optimal results overall. This has led to the good, but just good enough of 2017, 2018, and 2019. Last year was an absolute tire fire, but that's really been aberration his entire coaching career thus far. This offseason, he finally invested in building out a true recruiting operation that doesn't dump a lot of responsibility on his position coaches' plates. He's brought in a more sustainable defensive philosophy for modern college football, and he's prioritized bring in coaches who are excellent at relating to players. Direction makes sense to me.
The situation with Cade is a big TBD. But, overall (not just 2nd half Rutgers), the returns look good! I love his decision making, his overall ball placement, and his deep ball accuracy. But things seriously spiral with him; when he makes a couple mistakes, it usually leads to an avalanche of more negatives, as seen against Washington and Rutgers. Big problem in a sport where adversity is guaranteed, especially in the biggest stages.
If we're going to win against Wisconsin, both Gattis and Cade need to show up. But one thing is almost certain: Gattis is in complete control of the play-calling. So Harbaugh is not the one calling Inside Zone up the middle. Gattis just chose exceptionally poorly for the running attack overall against Rutgers. Gap is the way.
I completely missed that possibility that you and Flag brought up re: All not being the intended receiver. Entirely possible! In that case CJ needs to be more aware and understand what the defense is doing
Agree on the blocking concerns. I broke down all 15 passes and made a Diary post on it. The main conclusion is that it was mostly failed blocks that prevented the bubbles/swings from working. Cade had a couple bad reads, one bad throw, and a couple of the playcalls weren't great. But, overall, I think everything's fixable.
Yeah I wouldn't consider #4 a drop. It would be a tough catch, but he had both hands on it. I don't think he gets blasted short because CJ will be blocking/obstructing the LB in front of him, and the DB that screams into the picture only does so after the pass falls on the ground. If All catches, he just needs to go vertical and fall forward when he gets contacted. So I'm pretty sure he'd get the conversion. But I may be wrong on the physics of that.
I agree re: #9 after rewatching. The snap definitely surprised Cade. And yes, the blocking left A LOT to be desired. But, like I said, I think those are more about taking the correct angles than anything else. They'll improve. And now they understand how a good secondary will attack them.
Yeah they didn't have play action outside of the bubble screen/swing pass reads. I think the biggest factor in the staff going cautious was because of all the different post-snaps looks that UW was giving. Harbaugh mentioned in the press conference that UW was throwing the kitchen sink defensively in terms of alignments and tendencies. And I think Cade is still working on effectively processing post-snap pictures that differ from his pre-snap assessment. That, combined with the receivers' liability blocking the basic bubbles and swings, probably convinced them to stick with the run until UW proved they could stop it.
Ha, played in HS but I forgot most of what I learned from back then. But I've built up a basic understanding of how things should work from a passing perspective.
I…
You beautiful bastard lol
I really wish there was an edit button on posts lol
Yes and no. I think the primary reason they didn't dial more up was what Washington was doing in terms of alignments, personnel, and post-snap mix-ups. Specifically, I'm guessing the post-snap hijinks worried them the most. Combine that with the fact that we weren't executing our basic bubble and swing passes that are the constraints for the run game, that would encourage them to stick with the run game until it was stopped.
There will be more opportunities to smooth out the pass game wrinkles.
Please excuse the typos! I went on a bit of a manic output and left some of the proofreading to be desired.
What makes you have that feeling?? He’s clearly the best DT we have. And I disagree that we’re paper thin at the position. We have Solomon, Dwumfour, Kemp, and Jeter at DT. DE is a bit thin since we have Paye, Hutchinson, and Uche. Also we have Hinton and Smith incoming for DT. For DE, we have a chance at closing for Harrison and Karlaftis (assuming the loss to OSU doesn’t change the calculus for Harrison and that Brohm leaves Louisville). Additionally, Villain is an X-factor. If he finally gets healthy, he is quite promising.
That’s the thing: he doesn’t need an all-world QB to execute on the Stanford game plan. A QB at Shea’s level can pull it off; he’ll probably score less though.
Your other point is the bigger one. 16 of 18 by OSU, and we as a fan base are going batshit over it. We’re placing the entirety of that 16/18 on Harbaugh’s shoulders, which is silly. He’s responsible for 4, no more, no less.
The BPONE is alive and well for OSU, but I put this diary together in order to point out that we don’t have a tire fire program that will take drastic changes to get to OSU level. The DTs will be better next year (DE may be more of a tossup, but we have talent there). We’re getting more explosive athletes. And, even if we’re stuck with Pep, the offense will be better due to continued OL and WR development, along w/ the QB being more comfortable w/ the offense.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure #2 vs #3 in 2016 was bigger.
The result today sucked. But it doesn't negate the other 11 games, and doesn't negate the fact that things are getting better. There definitely seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. But we'll see.
I was saying that DTs should be better. But yeah, DE could be a trouble spot w/ only Paye and maybe Uche. Vilain is always hurt, though Hutchinson did seem very promising. But then again, the DE position has always been strong since Mattison has been here.
If only upvotes still existed...
The entire opening sequence (the scripted plays) were mostly quick passes. The story was that they were NOT feeding Higdon. Things only turned around when they actually started running to set up the pass again.
So even NFL O-Lines can struggle mightily with stunts....
If that is how Tressel completely fucked us in Ohio, it seems like all of the OH HS coaches went right along with it and completely locked us out of all the talent. Aside from the fact that they intentionally limited their athletes' choices, they completely ignored the relationships that were built that up to that point. As you said, Michigan had hit OH hard for decades under Bo, Mo, and Lloyd. So obviously they built great relationships with all of the HS coaches that spanned years and years. However, as soon as Tressel came along, all of the HS coaches abandoned those relationships and locked us out. So, my question, why should we invest so much time and effort into OH when it's clear that the OH HS coaches don't give a rat's ass about whatever relationship/effort we put in? In fact, it sounds like Harbaugh's approach is going to insulate us from a Tressel situation going forward - the geographical diversity of recruits makes it harder for any one program to fuck us.
I say stay the course - OSU will get its fill, and then us and MSU gets the tablescraps from the state of Ohio. I think the only way this changes meaningfully is if we become dominant again and start winning big games. Then we come into OH and compete. Honestly, as long as OSU has Meyer there, I think our recruiting in OH will pretty much be their recruiting in MI. When the program is down, we'll get to take some top recruits. And when it's great, we're SOL.
Hey MichiganMan14! I personally, and I know many other posters, appreciate your contributions. You have experience playing D1 football at a major program and you understand the difference between youth struggles and coaching malpractice. You and Reader71 are the posters I follow the most.
I appreciate your input, and I was wondering your thoughts on these observations:
1. The line is getting better at run blocking and marginally improving in pass blocking (7 sacks I know, but they do look better than they did against Purdue and MSU). They just need to gain more experience and get a better RT.
2. The running plan seems to be gap blocking as a base, with IZ as constraints - this makes sense and seems like the best approach
3. The passing game is a complete tire fire, and I'm not sure that it's all on O'Korn's shoulders. The plays are simplistic in design, long-developing, and lack the elegance/intelligence that create free yards and easy completions on off-schedule throws.
4. Additionally, the receivers are not getting much separation, but I don't know that they are being put in a place to succeed.
5. It sounds like all the pass plays are designed, coached, and implemented by Pep, with some input from Drev. And then those plays are essentially menu options for Drev to call; he's not the primary designer.
6. The running backs keep blowing pass blocking assignments, and they don't seem to be utilitzed as well as they could/should be in the pass game - I'd say, again, this is mostly on Pep for his mediocre play designs, but also a bit on Drev for not using common sense on this.
Conclusions:
1. Pep needs to go. He's been a complete disaster for this team.
2. Drev doesn't inspire a ton of confidence, but if you accept that the pass plays are simply menu items for him that were designed by Pep, it makes more sense on why the pass play calls leave so much to be desired (though PA on 4th and 11...yeah). I wouldn't be broken up if Drev is shit canned, but I think there may be a case to give him another year, or, at the very least, keep him as interior OL coach.
3. This running back rotation nonsense is really starting to grate - it didn't happen much with Wheatley in charge, so I have to assume that JayBaugh is responsible. Additionally, the pass blocking leaves so much to be desired, which I again put on coaching for putting guys who can't block in the game, or not teaching the techniques soundly.
4. QB play needs to improve - I think it's something that is in a good place w/ Harbaugh in charge. The guy has a great track record, and I fully trust him to fix it.
Actions:
1. Shit can Pep
2. Move JayBaugh to ST and bring in Mike Hart or someone at that level to coach RB
3. Bring in a dedicated WR coach who can design a more lethal passing game that plays to the strengths of the QB and the WRs. If this guy needs to be an OC, then demote Drev and keep him as run game coordinator and have him coach the interior OL.
4. *Optional* If Harbaugh demotes Drev, and he doesn't accept it and leaves, I'd say bring in Greg Roman to coach the interior OL.
What say you?
The team he took over won the Rose Bowl the year before their 6-7 season. Jim Tressel built that program into a monster; there was a one season speed bump w/ Fickel, and then Meyer came. You are completely dense if you don't realize that fucking team was LOADED.
The team he took over won the Rose Bowl the year before their 6-7 season. Jim Tressel built that program into a monster; there was a one season speed bump w/ Fickel, and then Meyer came. You are completely dense if you don't realize that fucking team was LOADED.
Are you high?? You're telling me we lost to Toledo? Got blown out on the regular by any decent team? I guess I missed that we needed a goal line stand to beat....Akron?!
Yeah...I'd suggest you quit drinking and go to bed.
Enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
When I read "ancestors" I read it as "ALL ancestors". But this makes sense...I don't think Washington killed babies :)
But I figured that it's all good since Tyrone Wheatley Sr housed them and then their program imploded.
I'm definitely not suggesting we concede games, but I am managing my expectations a bit more than I did at the beginning of the year. We just gotta hope that O'Korn can marginally improve to wear he's reading 2 routes per pass play instead of 1. That alone will probably markedly improve the pass offense.
Ideally, yes. I'd love to have the Fromm approach, but we don't have the Georgia WRs or Nick Chubb and Sonny Michele. I don't know that it's a viable strategy for Michigan. Which is why I don't think it'll work to throw Peters in there.
Also, I'm 100% sure that Harbaugh's scheme is more complex than Kirby Smart's. Given the O'Korn vs Speight results, I have to believe that if JH believed that Peters was the best option, he'd be playing. Sam was saying Peters mostly fell behind in fall camp because they added a lot more to his plate and he couldn't handle it very well. I don't know how much that has changed 6 games into the season.
If he hung WD's ancestors...how is WD here? I'm quite fond of WD; he was instrumental in getting rid of Brandon, which paved the way for IT'S HAPPENING!!
Why do we hate them again?
He brought up his point because this is a thread praising Higdon, and your post reads as "sure Karan's great, but AJ DILLON!!!", which comes across as you passively aggressively dissing our guy and bitching about how we couldn't keep some other guy.
As for why Sparty drops "Wal-Mart" Wolverine is because they subconciously accept that they are a second tier, regional program that no one would have a reason to follow/be a fan of unless they have some sort of direct and/or familial connection to MSU. They're just too stupid to realize that they're making fun of themselves everytime they use that one, which is...par for the course I would say.
Given all that's happened this year, I am really starting to appreciate how difficult it can be to consistently win day in and day out against teams you are better than. Skullduggery hits college football at such a high clip, and giants regularly fall because of that.
That play was like Denard to Junior Hemingway in the Sugar Bowl in 2011. I don't think either of them thought it was going down like that.
The O-line recruiting woes have been highlighted, documented, and, frankly, beaten to death already. Tl;dr: It was a mess when JH got here and it takes time and patience to fix.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
The ship will be righted, and that is quite the achievement given 2008-2014. Let's understand that there are no easy fixes, but continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
Are you actually suggesting that JH, a Pro Bowl NFL QB and an elite QB coach, is NOT telling and coaching these guys to go through progressions and get to checkdowns?! The fact that it isn't happening tells me the players just don't have the mental makeup to get it done. And, unfortunately, there are no viable alternatives.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
Giving you shit is some sort of weird pass-time for some of the other members. But I for one agree with MichiganMan14. And I would I would like to thank you for your part in bringing Jim Harbaugh home. If it wasn't for you bringing down Dave Brandon, there is no chance that JH would've come home. So thank you WD!
Please tell me you're joking...
The O-line recruiting woes have been highlighted, documented, and, frankly, beaten to death already. Tl;dr: It was a mess when JH got here and it takes time and patience to fix.
And are you actually suggesting that JH, a Pro Bowl NFL QB and an elite QB coach, is NOT telling and coaching these guys to go through progressions and get to checkdowns?! The fact that it isn't happening tells me the players just don't have the mental makeup to get it done. And, unfortunately, there are no viable alternatives.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
You're losing your touch! Have you stopped paying your cyber ops team? I know that gas money can only go to so many places.
The D Line has annhilated everyone we've played thiss year. I would say that the "bad OL" we've faced has made quite the difference.
"There are teams that are younger than ours that manage a MUCH better O-line and offense in general".
I would LOVE for you to back up that bullshit with an example (I'll wait; just FYI we are the YOUNGEST team in the nation this year).
The O-line recruiting woes have been highlighted, documented, and, frankly, beaten to death already. Tl;dr: It was a mess when JH got here and it takes time and patience to fix.
And are you actually suggesting that JH, a Pro Bowl NFL QB and an elite QB coach, is NOT telling and coaching these guys to go through progressions and get to checkdowns?! The fact that it isn't happening tells me the players just don't have the mental makeup to get it done. And, unfortunately, there are no viable alternatives.
Finally, enough with "other schools have young QBs playing great!" line. It's a simplistic observation that offers no context or analysis. "Josh Jackson is GREAT!" the dude plays in a simplistic read-option offense where he looks at the sideline every fucking play to get the call and he only has 1-2 reads and just takes off. It looks great against the overmatched and gets waxed by anyone with a pulse.
"Sam Darnold!!" Sam Darnold had a stud WR (Juju Smith), a stud RB (Ronald Jones) and a veteran O-Line last year. This year, he got Jones back, but the other pieces left and now he has been STRUGGLING all year (4:3 TD:Int Ratio).
"Jacob Fromm!!" I love this one! This guy has two elite, bellcow running backs and only throws ~20 passes a game for 100 - 150 ypg.
In conclusion: When a young QB gets the start and plays well, there are usually elite RBs, WRs, and O-lines (or at least 2/3). Michigan does not have any of these things (though Higdon and the O-line were VERY good today).
Michigan runs a complex, pro-style offense with multiple formations, reads, checks, and so forth. The reason they do this is because when this offense is executed properly, it is an absolute nightmare for college defenses to stop. But the drawback is that, yes, it takes a long time to install and learn. And JH clearly has made the decision to not simplify things any more than he already has. This is similar to Don Brown saying that he isn't just going to lay down and be in Quarters coverage because it's easy to learn; he'd rather die. And I agree with this sentiment. Crafting an overly simplified scheme that goes against what the coaches want is simply bolstering up short term gains that don't mean much (do you really think that approach is going to get us to the B1G Championship and National Title?) by sacrificing long term offensive development and stability. You want this young team to keep increasing their capabilities within Jim's offensive system. And that means yes, 2017 may in fact be a developmental year rather than a contending year. But this developmental year is setting up better years to come, and it will still be better than ANY Rich Rod year and better than 3/4 Hoke years.
Seriously, this blog has turned into a fucking cesspool the last week with all these know-nothing, arm chair coaches acting like they're Bill Belichick. If you idiots want to live through 2008-2014 again, by all means, demand changes willy-nilly with no thought and a rudimentary understanding of the facts. Us sane people will understand that there are no easy fixes, and will continue deferring to a coach who has literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad EVERYWHERE he has gone.
Sinsoftheschafer has a solid list. The only thing I would add - after hanging out at GG park, saunter on over to El Burrito Express at 26th Ave and Taraval for lunch / dinner. In my opinion, best burrito in the city, and I have tried MANY.
My thoughts exactly.
I bring this up because this little anecdote definitively proves that Yoder is either a moron or a fraud.
Is this for real? This dude runs a media company and has apparently performed major fund raises/deals. As far as I know, most major deals have an escrow period - at my old investment bank, once an M&A deal was agreed to in principal and entered into close, both parties would wire our fees to an escrow account. Following the execution of the final closing docs, the funds from the escrow account were released to us. From what I understand, escrow is standard operating procedure when finalizing deals - it forces all parties to put skin in the game and therefore promotes substantive negotiations over a reasonable time frame.
It's even more stupid that he said it was "convenient" that the lawyer's email contained the word "escrow" in it. Even if Yoder's dumbass didn't know what escrow was, any corporate lawyer worth his or her salt knows what escrow is.
The story was funny to me because she kept inserting "The" in front of everything, and then concluded by saying she went to "The" OSU. Stereotype confirmed.
I'm not making fun of her for not knowing what C# is (the only reason I know it is because I'm surrounded by geeks here in the Bay); I'm making fun of her (actually, whoever sent my buddy this story is) because she puts "The" in front of things for no reason. Notice the bolded letters in the post? Reading and playing skool isn't a thing for bucknuts I suppose.
Being surrounded by tech geeks all day has led to a bit of a bleeding effect
Recruiter kept inserting "The" in front of everything, which totally fits as she went to "The" OSU
C# is a programming language; the recruiter clearly had no clue wtf she was talking about and kept insufferably puttting "The" in front of everything. Naturally, she went to OSU :D
Double Post
Is this a real story? Or are you just bullshitting? Normally, it'd be obvious that you were just messing around. But, after the last few days, I honestly can't tell anymore. God I hate my life during recruiting season.