In Your Opinion: If Harbaugh leaves...what's his legacy?
February 2nd, 2022 at 10:54 AM ^
It feels like he gave up. Like 'yep this is as good as it's gonna get for Michigan. I want to go to the NFL now'. With a really good, young offensive core and a great staff I thought he would really make something of his time here - especially with maybe a slight crack showing in the OSU facade. Instead he bails. Really disappointing and I think it puts a damper on anything he accomplished here
February 2nd, 2022 at 12:55 AM ^
Talented diva
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:21 AM ^
Diva: “a vain or undisciplined person who finds it difficult to work under direction or as part of a team.”
That sounds like the exact opposite of Harbaugh.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:01 AM ^
When he was hired: The least likely guy on the planet to use Michigan as a temporary stepping stone while planning to bolt after the first real success.
Now: Not that.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:53 AM ^
Temporary stepping stone? It's been 7 years.
That's not temporary or a stepping stone.
Mike Macdonald did that for sure. But that's not Harbaugh.
Harbaugh coached when we were still Adidas, lol
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:05 AM ^
I don’t mean to get too esoteric on ya, but temporary means not permanent. What might be a better adjective to describe the duration of his tenure on the job? He took a job that clearly isn’t one that he views as a destination job and now appears to be bolting when his stock is highest. How is that not a stepping stone? I didn’t say he didn’t like the job or that it meant nothing to him (though it sure appears to mean less than he has said), but it was indeed only a temporary position and looking very much like he did use it as a stepping stone to the nfl.
February 2nd, 2022 at 9:10 AM ^
Well I will mean to go too esoteric on ya -- by using temporary without context I'll have to say I'm quite shocked you're temporarily using this earth as a stepping stone to the next life.
February 2nd, 2022 at 10:31 AM ^
The context is that no head coach in the history of Michigan football has voluntarily left for another gig, NFL or otherwise. Choosing to leave after seven years would seem to qualify as temporary. What’s a better adjective to describe the duration of his tenure?
February 2nd, 2022 at 6:56 AM ^
This could be because he didn't accomplish anything before this year.
February 2nd, 2022 at 3:17 AM ^
Michigan wasn't even close to a stepping stone. You don't call it a stepping stone when you step onto it from above. He was already in the NFL and could have stayed there.
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:50 AM ^
Another great point.
As I mentioned, Macdonald parlayed a LB coach job to a college DC job to a NFL DC job in 1.5 years. That's stepping stone.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:02 AM ^
Mixed. Complicated. One great year, a couple pretty good ones. Starting from quite a low point. More of a rebuild similar to what he did at Stanford, if Michigan doesn’t fuck it up.
All else being equal, that is a lasting legacy. But Michigan fans had much higher hopes for Harbaugh. Harbaugh did not restore the program to the level of Bo, or even Carr. I put him above Moeller because Moeller inherited so much, but that is a close call. Moeller was Michigan’s OC in the 1980s and was responsible for much of Bo’s late success. Mo won two outright Big Ten titles in five years, shared another, and was 3-1-1 against Ohio.
So where is Harbaugh? Third, maybe fourth best coach of the Bo era. That is not the legacy he wanted, I suspect.
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:05 AM ^
Right...and Lloyd won his NC with Gary's recruits.
I would take Gary Moeller over Lloyd Carr any day.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:06 AM ^
One great season, one almost great season, and a few disappointing ones. Thought we had someone who loved Michigan as much as Brady Hoke without being over his head like Hoke was... but I guess not.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:07 AM ^
He will be mostly remembered for choking in winnable big games. 2015 MSU, 2016 OSU, 2016 Iowa, 2016 FSU, 2017 MSU to name a few. Did not meet the high expectations, but still did a really solid job overall.
February 2nd, 2022 at 10:57 AM ^
Yeah, Harbaugh has maybe 1-2 big, nationally relevant wins and lots of tough losses. He was very good, but fell well short of what we thought he would be
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:07 AM ^
Snakebit in a couple of big games, but struggled against rivals
Barely coached the most talented QB he recruited here
Raised the bar, but I think the Mark Richt comparison is a fair one
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:09 AM ^
Harbaugh will be the first coach to leave the University for another head coaching position; a first time experience for any fan of any age.
This fact alone is why the situation is difficult. Our school if necessary breaks up with head football coach but not the other way around.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:20 AM ^
Having been at Michigan when he was Quarterback up through the present, I would say his legacy is secure.
IMO he took way too long at Michigan to adjust to the college game as it exists now, but he did get there. And it looked like there was more to come from there.
But he wanted to go back to the NFL (as Juwan Howard is going to want to go back to the NBA). So you are not going to get a Bear Bryant situation or a Bobby Bowden situation where the coach is going to stay with his college team until his last days.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:23 AM ^
He ultimately delivered on what he said he would do, but nothing more. It's admirable, but not legendary. He was finally putting himself in a position to be legendary at Michigan had he wanted to, but that perhaps is not what he aspired to do.
And that's okay. Jim is an outstanding football coach, and I think he'll be successful wherever he coaches for the next decade or so. The sloppy way he left will leave a bittersweet taste in the mouth though for the program and fanbase.
JH is a coaching mercenary in my mind. He will deliver on what you hire him to do, but he is not going to become emotionally attached to any specific job or destination, even at his alma mater.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but he'll never become an icon for any organization. And I get the sense because he's had the opportunity to do so more than once, he is okay with that.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:28 AM ^
Yeah, at the end of the day coming home to his hometown roots, and living near his parents, and having a cozy stable place for his family, was not the anchor he said it was.
He's off to the next thing. Wherever it is, he won't stay there either. It's not what he does.
February 2nd, 2022 at 11:16 AM ^
"Mercenary" is a great term for it, but at least a mercenary is more up front about their intentions. They don't claim they would do the job for free, or profess their love for their employer. If you knew you were getting a mercenary, you would expect them to turn their backs on you for a better offer, and would be more prepared for them to walk. For Jim to walk away now, when it seems like he had an opportunity to really cement Michigan back among the top teams in the country, seems disrespectful.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:25 AM ^
He had two games where he had horrible luck
Trouble With The Snap
OSU 2016
If one or both go his way the turnaround is quicker and the honeymoon period transitions into success.
His legacy, to me was a s straight forward as his coaching career says it is. He is a program reviver. He has revived every program he has touched.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:31 AM ^
And then he leaves.
We thought it would be different because it was Michigan, but it wasn't.
February 2nd, 2022 at 3:15 AM ^
In fairness to Harbaugh we think everything will be different because This Is Michigan (TM).
February 2nd, 2022 at 5:56 AM ^
Yeah, we do. But in fairness to us bitterly disappointed Michigan fans, this time it was supposed to be true. This wasn't just Some Coach taking over the job. This was the kid who was shagging footballs during practices when Dad worked for Bo. This was the guy who played at Ann Arbor Pioneer. This was the guy who left California to come back to Ann Arbor. This was #4 in Maize & Blue, the All-Big Ten, glory-days QB who guaranteed a win over Ohio State and delivered. And after a long NFL career, after coaching stops in San Diego and Stanford, and already having coached in the NFL in San Francisco, this was the guy who arrived at his final destination. Even though I don't much like the phrase, it fits: He's a Michigan Man, the one who came home.
Except now it turns out that this wasn't the destination after all. It was just another stop on the road. Maybe a stop that he was really fond of, one that after seven years he finally achieved success at. But still, just a stop. We thought Jim had arrived, only to discover that he was just pausing.
So to answer the original question, to me, his legacy will be "Not what I hoped we were getting."
February 2nd, 2022 at 7:09 AM ^
He addressed this in his opening press conference with an analogy about building a house. This was supposed to be where he stayed according to his own words. For those that don't remember he said he likens buildong a team to building a house. You start with a foundation and go from there. But he talked about how instead of leaving when the house was finished he'd like to live in one for a change.
February 2nd, 2022 at 11:26 AM ^
Then he was fooling himself as much as he was us. It is not in his nature, apparently. But if Michigan is not special enough to make even a "Michigan Man" stay, then maybe we should just accept that CFB (and Michigan football) is not the quaint, special thing us old-timers thought it was. It is even more of a business than it was in the past, and we should just be pointing the "money cannon" at the best mercenary we can, and not get too attached.
Eat at Arbys.
February 2nd, 2022 at 4:26 AM ^
Geez. He's been here 7 years, for pete's sake. Stayed through thick and thin. Even took a pay cut and stayed to win the Big Ten. He's been more than loyal to the program.
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:20 AM ^
I think we will look back and wonder what could have been... the 4th down spot in the 2016 OSU game and Maryland missing a 2 point conversion in overtime of their 2018 game vs OSU, two plays that literally cost us two Big Ten division titles and probably two Big Ten championships and two playoff appearances... how different would Michigan's trajectory have been had he managed that in his first four seasons?
February 2nd, 2022 at 11:28 AM ^
Apparently then he would have already left for the NFL by now, but maybe we would have had more consistent success to pass on to the next guy.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:29 AM ^
Great QB, great coach. Thinking he was here forever was probably a dream as his personality and track record indicated that was always highly unlikely.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:32 AM ^
I will remember him as coming extremely close in the first couple of years, followed by a slow death by a thousand cuts decline in recruiting and on the field, followed by a final resurrection year that came too late.
He didn't work wonders. What has been forgotten is that he inherited a solid group of players except a QB from Hoke, who turned out to be an excellent recruiter but incompetent coach. A slightly better coach would have gotten the 2016 team over the line and into the CFP. That would have created the momentum for Harbaugh to land an Andrew Luck type QB like Trevor Lawrence to make this an elite team. That never happened.
Just goes to show you that first impressions and what you do initially really matter in college football, and in life.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:37 AM ^
I feel like I know less now about Harbaugh than I did when he was hired. I thought we were getting the genius responsible for the ascension of Stanford/49ers. However, every year he struggled he assumed fewer and fewer responsibilities. He tried to replicate the success he had at previous stops with former assistants at those stops -- like Pep and Drevno. It got to the point where I truly wondered if the brains of those teams were JH or Roman/Fangio -- especially considering the subsequent success of those two. Harbaugh had to go outside of his tree and reduce his influence and rely on an outsider OC to find a more competent offense, while the defenses were always handled by DCs like Brown/Macdonald. I was left wondering what Harbaugh did that made him such a trendy coaching candidate. As a former QB, maybe QB whisperer? But we saw him miss on QBs regularly, and we were eventually thrilled with a competent game manager. In the end, he did finally get a win vs OSU and a B1G Title, but personally that felt like more of a function of a weak OSU team (and very weak Iowa team) as opposed to a Michigan team that was reaching new heights. I think he made us respectable, but not a NC threat -- not anymore than those ND teams who got demolished in the playoff. ND never built on those, and I'm not sure Harbaugh was building on his trip there. Maybe that's why he's (probably) leaving. At this school, with the limitations from the administration, an Ohio State win and B1G Title might be the realistic mountain top -- and at least he got us there (once). I wish him well, but I'll never be convinced we're losing a sure-fire coaching genius. There was too much dysfunction along the way during his time at Michigan.
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:32 AM ^
I feel like I know less now about Harbaugh than I did when he was hired. I thought we were getting the genius responsible for the ascension of Stanford/49ers. . . I was left wondering what Harbaugh did that made him such a trendy coaching candidate.
This really summed up a lot of what I've felt, as there have been a number of aspects of his time here that do not line up with what I expected going in. In addition to things you've mentioned, here are some other ones that have stood out over the years:
- Sloppiness and Lack of Discipline -- I expected his teams to be well coached, precise, disciplined, etc., and instead mental mistakes and dumb penalties have been a trend that just never went away.
- Passion/Emotion -- Harbaugh came in with a reputation of being highly passionate and liable to blow up at any moment, but way too often his teams have come out flat, especially on the road. And there were way too many games where the team folded under adversity. Plus the 2017-2020 years where emotionally he didn't even look like the same guy.
- Preparation -- This one has been mixed, but there have been plenty of games, including against big opponents, where they looked completely unprepared for what the opponent was going to do, including things that even casual fans saw coming.
- Competition -- For as much as Harbaugh preaches competition, there have been way too many instances where the coaches seem to play favorites regardless of relative performance.
- Drive -- This one is Harbaugh specific, but early on he was constantly innovating and driving to try to get any edge he could. Satellite camps, Signing of the Stars, team trips, etc. Then after a few years it all dried up, and unless I'm missing/forgetting things, it doesn't seem like it there's been much on this front lately.
And I'm sure I'm forgetting things. There are clearly things he does well. He oftentimes has a good eye for talent, as well as for choosing assistant. There are times where he and his staff can really dig down and identify things to attack, and he certainly knows the intricacies of running games. But I certainly get the sentiment that overall, I'm not sure what he's done to drive the success he's had.
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:34 AM ^
Another great post. All my upvote power to you too. The one thing I will add , I expected a powerful dominate run game from Jim. We got it this year. And this year only.
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:27 AM ^
very good post. i really like, ",,'ll never be convinced we're losing a sure-fire coaching genius. There was too much dysfunction along the way during his time at Michigan. "
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:29 AM ^
Great post. All my upvote power to you. This is the best post on this topic.
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:43 AM ^
Great post. Should be upvotes by all. You and Shadow Storm have won the best posts on the subject.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:54 AM ^
Good, not great. In seven years, he had:
- One great season
- Four decent to good seasons (9-10 win seasons are typically good, but the context leans more towards decent: 0-4 vs. OSU with three blowout losses, 1-3 in bowls, a number of bad road losses (and ugly road wins) where the team didn't show up ready to play, etc.)
- One mediocre to bad season
- And one season so bad, COVID or not, I'd probably rank it the worst in at least the last 60ish years (the coaches and players looked unprepared, uninterested, and the team basically quit on him)
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:54 AM ^
Good, not great. In seven years, he had:
- One great season
- Four decent to good seasons (9-10 win seasons are typically good, but the context leans more towards decent: 0-4 vs. OSU with three blowout losses, 1-3 in bowls, a number of bad road losses (and ugly road wins) where the team didn't show up ready to play, etc.)
- One mediocre to bad season
- And one season so bad, COVID or not, I'd probably rank it the worst in at least the last 60ish years (the coaches and players looked unprepared, uninterested, and the team basically quit on him)
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:55 AM ^
This thread is going a lot better than I anticipated.
This board is so unpredictable.
...I love it.
February 2nd, 2022 at 1:56 AM ^
He stabilized the program and made it relevant again, leaving it fairly stacked for the next coach. Next question: What will be Warde Manuel’s legacy? His next decision is going to define him.
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:04 AM ^
I think that his time at Michigan just simply expired.
If you were told in 2014 that Harbaugh would be at Michigan for 7 years, you would have said: "Sounds about right. He'll ramp up for a couple of years, win a bunch of championships, and then move on, likely back to the NFL."
Well, we got the 7 years. But he spent too much time dorking around trying to recreate 2010 Stanford that most of those 7 years got used up before any championships came. By that time, the NFL wanderlust kicked in, as we always suspected it would.
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:14 AM ^
I think people would have been very happy with seven years if they were told that’s how long he was staying in 2014. I remember people thinking we’d probably get three or four seasons before he took an NFL job after winning a couple National Titles.
I agree with you on the Stanford take. I don’t have the exact number, but it seemed like every year, we’d chase one or two very smart offensive linemen, who’d consider or even commit to Michigan, before getting accepted at Stanford and, ultimately, head out west. I’d like to think if we landed a few more of those guys, we’d have faired better the last few years, but who knows.
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:05 AM ^
I don't know if I can fairly offer my opinion on Jim Harbaugh right now.
I love the guy. I love the hard-nosed way his teams play. I loved that he said what was on his mind.
I'm pretty hurt right now because I thought this was home. Maybe Jim is just one of those guys who spends his whole life looking for one.
I'll never root for him in the NFL.
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:40 AM ^
I'm very curious to see what a Harbaugh NFL team looks like with no Roman/Fangio (assume Fangio doesn't follow him to Minnesota). Dalvin Cook isn't the plodding RB that JH will deploy him as, and Cousins isn't going to get him anything more than the play is designed to get (unlike Kaep/Luck and even Smith to a degree). What they have in Minnesota is very similar to what he struggled to capitalize with. They have elite WRs, but he'll want to focus on plays focusing on the OL and TE/FB types. They have a running back who is great in space and great at receiving, but will he want to slam him between the tackles. In my opinion the Bears and Fields/Montgomery would've been a better fit for what he did in SF and Stanford, but then again, I'm not sure those offenses really had much to do with him (as far as moving the pocket around, getting mobile QBs on the move, play action, pre-snap motion, etc). I could never tell if he was never able to recreate those offenses at Michigan bc of personnel (OL, QB mostly), or because he was never the creator of those offenses to begin with, and he was just failing to replicate what he had seen others do alongside him at the other stops (Roman/Shaw).
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:25 AM ^
Harbaugh's legacy? It is very complicated.
Although he revived the program back to respectability, he did not meet the lofty expectations that everyone had when he was hired.
Yes, he came very close in 2016 and should have made the CFP that year. He didn't, however, achieve what he was supposed to until this year and then . . . poof . . . he was gone. We will never know how high he could have gone because he left right when it appears we got on track.
He is the first coach to leave Michigan for another job in our lifetimes, however, he is also the first coach to leave when things were on the upswing. Like I said, it is very complicated.
February 2nd, 2022 at 8:22 AM ^
Not sure why everyone is playing up the “first coach to leave UM for another job” angle so much. Look at it objectively.
- In the grand scheme of things, we haven’t had that many coaches.
- Carr was the last decent coach and he was in the twilight of his career.
- Lastly, coaching offers, salaries, contracts and incentives are vastly fucking different now than ever before.
Coaches move on and that means everyone has to as well. I just thought Harbaugh walked into the perfect situation where it would be damn near impossible to leave. Wrong I was.
February 2nd, 2022 at 2:35 AM ^
Decent overall, but nothing special historically. Definitely not great.
Reliably good against bad and middling teams, brought team back from being a mess. Poor against strong competition and underwhelming compared to expectations.
Several bad losses to inferior MSU teams, losing 3-4 record against the Spartans. 1-5 against OSU, many of the losses were blowouts of the caliber we didn’t even see with Hoke. 1-5 in bowl games with the only win in year 1, so 5 game losing streak.
2016 was his best team talent-wise (with Hoke recruits), 2021 best results-wise obviously with first big ten championship in 17 years.