Was Gash's Fourth and Three catch OPI [Edit: Answered]
First post, but need/want a clarification. My understanding is that downfield blocking is legal if the pass is caught behind the LOS. Am I mistaken? Seems it happened earlier in the year with one of our opponents and OPI was called due to the catch being made beyond the LOS>
FROM THE EDITOR (Seth):
No it wasn't OPI. It was past the line of scrimmage so blocking isn't allowed. The question is about blocking versus getting jammed, and this falls in the category of getting jammed.
The most important aspect here is the Illinois CB initiated the contact. Note the position of the CB's arms versus those of Loveland at the release.
At that point the receiver is allowed to try to get out of that contact and the CB is expected to release him after 5 yards. Loveland did anchor for a second, which if he had continued that it becomes OPI, but he came off that contact immediately to fight inside and did not impede CB once he started going for the ball. Earlier in the game they ran the same route combination and Loveland made a catch on it. Michigan used Illinois's aggressive bump n run coverage against them but it was Illinois that created the contact and the Illinois nickelback who sat inside instead of replacing when he's in man and his buddy is initiating contact with a tight end.
Illini fans just want something to complain about. I'm charting this game and Illinois got the better of a not well officiated game. It's particularly disingenuous for Bert to be leading the Sparting because he trained his OL to put their hands outside the shoulders every play. But the guy's mom died this week so he's probably not in the best spot emotionally--when I lost a parent I wasn't in any shape to be representing myself, let alone an entire institution. And the Illini were absolutely hosed by officiating vs MSU and Purdue so they were primed to gripe. They just don't have a gripe here. This is on them.
November 21st, 2022 at 11:49 AM ^
They didn't throw a flag when Desmond Howard was tripped in the end zone, but everyone on this board knows that one was illegal.
But unlike that, in this case, as has already been explained, they didn't throw a flag because it actually wasn't a penalty.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:18 AM ^
Thanks Seth!
November 21st, 2022 at 10:19 AM ^
I’m not sure why you’re getting negged. A lot of these nerds do not know the answer to your question, so this is an educational thread.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
It was asked before, it was answered emphatically (no, because the CB initiated contact) and repeatedly, the game was two days ago, and someone asking again rankles because Illinois is griping about the refs and looky gee now here's a DID MICHIGAN COMMIT OPI?!?! JUST ASKING!! thread to start everyone's Monday morning.
I don't like Seth giving this guy undeserved attention but hopefully his intervention gets these twits to stop asking.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:31 AM ^
I didn't see the previous discussion. Did Seth give this level of analysis?
November 21st, 2022 at 10:36 AM ^
I think it's a fair question, and one that's been out there. But it wasn't a great thread as posed as a question, so I thought my options were to use it to be productive or take it down, which felt like ducking. I didn't want to Neck Sharpies such a small thing on the front page, so this gave me the opportunity to share some information about a thing people are talking about. Whether the OP was "rewarded" is immaterial to me. Posing the question created an opportunity to be useful and I took it.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:39 AM ^
Thanks, yo. Never leave
November 21st, 2022 at 10:43 AM ^
It was discussed ad nauseum over the weekend, multiple threads about the officiating and Illinois whining about it, and multiple posters pointing out the CB initiated contact. I expected the topic to be dead by now.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:51 AM ^
Apparently, it was not
November 21st, 2022 at 11:45 AM ^
Then don't read the thread if you don't want your Monday ruined. That's on you pal.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:21 AM ^
I think it probably could have been called but am not necessarily surprised it wasn't. I definitely thing the defender engaged first and that Loveland was attempting to run his route all the way, but Loveland also seems to be a lot more hands-on with the defender throughout the contact then he would be if he knew a pass might be coming his way. Defender was definitely not helping himself with the press coverage and that is what probably cost him the call, but Loveland could have done a better job making it look good and there wouldn't be any controversy.
If the defender is playing a bit off then he almost certainly gets the call if Loveland runs into him and gives him that much contact, but as it went, it's probably 50/50 by the book and practically speaking a lot less than that by how refs actually treat it.
Even if you want to give Illinois the benefit of the gripe on this, the football Gods still owe us at least a dozen calls like this. Call it karma for hurting Blake.
Edit: Looking at Seth's breakdown, I guess I must concede I wasn't fully up on the rules for contact between receiver and defender. That is a solid breakdown.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:24 AM ^
Seth with the Edit: win!!! Great summation.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:25 AM ^
Thanks.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:32 AM ^
Refs basically turned off penalties agains Illinois in the game- Same thing happened in first half against Rutgers-
Michigan is the best team that Illinois played this year but somehow the Illini had about 40% less penalties than their average???
At some point Michigan's AD needs to get this fixed - I would think Michigan should have some recourse- U of M has put up with a ref disadvantage for too long with 2016 OSU being the most egregious and painful.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:41 AM ^
In response to Seth’s edit about Bielema losing his mom suddenly:
I have great sympathy and can understand him being not in a right frame of mind. But it’s really egregious how much he’s leaning into that being a blatantly bad call when it’s questionable at best and frankly is not actually that questionable.
And I am not impressed with his ploy to make an issue out of the tunnel.
I mean, I get it and want to cut him slack, but I have a feeling this would have been his reaction regardless.
And in the grand scheme it’s not evil behavior but it’s worth mocking.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:52 AM ^
It's annoying because B1G officiating is so atrocious you could easily find multiple horrible calls per game -- including ones that went against Illinois -- without whining about a non-call they got right.
It's legit to have a gripe about B1G officiating, but he needs to choose an example that's relevant to the case.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:59 AM ^
Illini fans just want something to complain about
After the 2020 basketball season, I would've been surprised if this game wasn't followed by excessive complaining
November 21st, 2022 at 11:18 AM ^
Sorry, Seth, but that is absolutely 100% offensive pass interference. Loveland is not trying to disengage. In fact, he works his butt around to seal off the defender(s) from getting to Gash.
I don't mind because Michigan has had its fair share of bad calls (or no-calls) go against them, but this was an egregious no-call.
If roles were flipped, we would be furious about Illinois not being called here for OPI.
November 21st, 2022 at 12:00 PM ^
If roles were flipped, we would be furious
I hate it when people say this. It's being a jerk, and then projecting it to create an illusion of "everyone sucks" to manufacture guilt by association. It's cynical and hypocritical.
We have folks here enraged about everything, whatever, but MGoBlog writers have discussed OPI and they've been relatively consistent: This sort of thing happens so often that non-calls barely get a mention. Some offenses literally scheme it. At most, they'll be like "yeah this was a pick but it doesn't get called because B1G refs". More like eye-rolling disdain than fury, and that's been the case for years.
In fact this literally happened -- Illinois ran a downfield pick play against Michigan back in '19 that MGoBlog commented on -- and what did they have to say?
Brian: Michigan got got by the "Michigan State" OPI play. . . OPI every time, OPI every time, extremely OPI. . .
Everyone: Never called.
So, the shoe has been on the other foot and the reaction was "meh". So. . . you're straight-up lying.
You have a take, fine, and you usually write good stuff so you have my respect for that, so I'd like to take your interpretation of the events seriously, but now it kind of doesn't matter anymore thanks to this politics-style "both sides" crap.
I mean, the stakes are trivial, but this habit of cooking up guilt by association is inherently toxic. You wanna be a jerk, man up and stand alone.
November 21st, 2022 at 1:13 PM ^
Sorry, if roles were flipped, 81.6% of us would be furious.
November 21st, 2022 at 4:17 PM ^
Magnus has an opinion you disagree with. That doesn't make him a liar.
Ease down, Super Chief
November 21st, 2022 at 12:51 PM ^
As a former official, I would say that it is OPI despite the contact initially coming from the DB, the WR turns into a blocker and attempts to turn the DB inside to create a lane to the outside. However this is a judgment of a player’s intention and you could make the argument either way. If I was the head of the conference’s officiating, I would be okay with either a call or no call.
November 21st, 2022 at 4:09 PM ^
Sometimes it gets called, sometimes it doesn't ...........
The play reminds me A LOT of a crucial OPI call in the 2019 PSU @ Minnesota game (a very important B1G game that year). Number 11 in the play below.
OPI was called then. I can understand the Illinois' fans arguments - there's precedent for a call like that at an important moment.
I can't tell Michigan fans what to do, but I think (1) the Zapruder film breakdowns and (2) Seth's belief that he "answered" the question definitively as though the question was "what is 2+2?" are both a bit much. Brian's nuanced discussion as regards this call is much better, IMO.
I'd just make the "sometimes it gets called, sometimes it doesn't" argument and move on. The game is over, Michigan won and that result isn't going to change, and even if Illinois had won Michigan is going to the CFP if they win Saturday. There's no need to argue or defend the call.
November 21st, 2022 at 4:13 PM ^
Thanks for the analysis, Seth!
November 21st, 2022 at 5:11 PM ^
This had to be talked about. It wasn't an offensive penalty.
But think about this: if places were switched, and it was Michigan on defense, what would you be saying today?
November 21st, 2022 at 6:35 PM ^
Then Michigan fans would bitch online but....
- Harbaugh wouldn't be yelling at the refs about it after the game.
- Harbaugh wouldn't be retweeting some mad fan about it.
- Brian would say the same thing in the game column that he did: that the official rulebook is silly and it's always called based on who initiates contact unless the block keeps going.
- I'd put in the UFR that the CB initiated contact and be mad that Michigan STILL doesn't have switch call like I've been on about for pick plays all year.
- Without support from people like Harbaugh and to much a lesser degree us, some Michigan fans would still be complaining and look for other people to tell them it was OPI, and some would let it go.
- Penn State fans would be mad that someone's not talking about a call that went against them.
November 21st, 2022 at 10:33 PM ^
Regarding point #5 --- this blog does influence Michigan fans' opinion more than you give yourself credit for.
This blog has a good deal of power in terms of setting the conversation. Which is fine.
But in this case, it's not unfair to think that (1) you're pushing a "I'm right, Bert is wrong, we have answered this question definitively" narrative versus (2) accepting the existence of a "sometimes that is called OPI, sometimes it isn't, neither a call nor a non-call is clearly wrong and folks, including Bert, can disagree" narrative.
As regards point #6 - maybe you're referring to me. Yes, there is a PSU play I referenced in this thread. I'm not "mad" about that call. I truly never was (there is never a point in me getting "mad" about college football). But it is a play that I recalled immediately, being (1) similar to the U-M play, (2) a relatively recent play and (3) a play in a game that I watched live.
I don't see a huge difference between that particular play and Saturday. Which gets to the opinion I and others have expressed: "sometimes that is called OPI, sometimes it isn't."