đź”’USWNT
I didn't watch the game, but was able to watch the highlight of it. Boy, USWNT did not look good and was fortunate that they were able to draw against Portugal. Yes, they don't have some of the players, but still, poor half against the Dutch and a poor game against Portugal is a cause for concern as they move onto the knockout rounds. The coaching and tactic has been predictable at best.
The world has started to catch up to the USA and they're much more technically proficient than them. The lack of youth development compared to Europe has started to bite them in the butt. Also, the rest of the world's younger generation has had more training compared to 10-20 years ago. That's JMO on my observation with Women's Soccer thus far.
Thoughts?
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August 1st, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
He saw them taking their kids to Disney World and drinking Bud Light.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
I didn't catch the game but it largely sounds like a combination of mismatched coaching and lackluster effort. Yes, the rest of the world has caught up to the US, much like they did in men's basketball. But at the same time, Germany, the #2 overall team, lost in their opening round as well. Spain, another top-10 team, lost as well. So some of it can just be the weirdness of international soccer.
That said, I do expect the US to struggle against Sweden or similarly-aggressive squads, and if they get ham-blasted out of the tournament it wouldn't be a shocker. But older, more veteran teams sometimes take longer to get going and can turn it on when necessary, so I'm not quite ready to close the door on them. But yeah, it hasn't been an inspiring run thus far.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:03 AM ^
I wonder if they'll play better against better opponents that play more open and attacking rather than sitting back and stacking the box. Portugal looked like they sat back and waited for their chance to steal it, which they were about six inches from doing. Against Sweeden, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5-4 scoreline, or something like that.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:37 AM ^
Respectfully, I don’t see this team scoring three goals against Sweden.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
You may be right, and Sweeden may dominate in other areas of the pitch minimizing the chances the US get. But they won't sit back and just let the US control possession and hope to nick a goal on the counter. When Sweeden attempts to control the game, that will create additional room in the middle and offensive thirds, giving the US room to operate that wasn't there before, hopefully leading to better chances. It will be interesting to see what happens, but in this case, I don't think the outcome against Portugal is predictive as to what would happen against Sweeden. Perhaps the Netherlands game would be a better comparator. But that runs counter to my prediction anyway. Ah well, it's a great game and should hopefully be more fun to watch.
This version of the team is not older or veteran. Loads of inexperience in fact. Take away Ertz Morgan Dunn and it's a very young starting group. Horan has a good amount of experience and Lavelle just returned to starting lineup.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
the problem is no cogent or unified development plan for girls in the US. it's insanity.
it all starts with the turf wars and breaking apart of the Girls Development Academy and the reign of the corrupt ECNL system:
https://sports.yahoo.com/us-soccer-girls-youth-development-ecnl-000044659.html
ECNL has been around forever and it hasn't stopped the US from winning the last 2 WCs. They have a young team and they don't look ready for the moment, and their coach seems pretty lackluster. Someone like Andi Sullivan playing for this team is troubling. But that's not due to ECNL or girls academy.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
It doesn't matter. They should still get equal pay.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
Given the existing agreement the point is irrelevant, but should the players on the Las Vegas Aces make as much as the players on the Denver Nuggets?
August 1st, 2023 at 11:31 AM ^
Equal pay.. an interesting topic in sports.
My thought is… same base salary for all USNT players - men and women.
Then, add a portion of the gate (ticket sales) and merchandising.
If one team (men or women) actually makes more money than the other, they’ll be compensated accordingly.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:41 AM ^
and TV money? how is that differentiation accommodated in your approach?
August 1st, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
Women's team gets pretty good ratings too. If the men beat them, it's not by much.
in the US the figures are closer; and there are USWNT games that garner high ratings but from what I looked at (albeit briefly) the USMNT typically gets higher ratings. The broader payout agreement adds both team's earnings together and then splits 50/50. How much each team contributes is a function of how much each World Cup pays and how well the teams do. Typically the women do much better in the tournament while the men's tournament pulls in far more money due to sponsorships and TV rights which makes sense given that there is about a 5:1 viewership advantage to the men's tournament. This picture from the NYT pretty cleanly explains how the current model works.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
Chaco - great idea - and, it wasn’t included because of an oversight on my part.
So, include ALL elements that generate revenue - or COULD generate revenue - with identical / proportional distribution.
For example - if the agreement is that 10% of tv Advertising revenue goes to the team. Then that 10% applies to both the women and the men.
One team generates more money than the other - and, it would seem fair - for a national team - to pay that team proportionally.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
I think also including bonuses for performance goals like winning games makes sense. Pretty much all college footbal coaches have those clauses. Tons of male athletes have performance metrics in their contracts as well.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
Did watch the game (horrible insomnia last night). US had the balance of the play by far - it felt very much like one of those NHL playoff games where the, clearly, superior team is just enough off that they can never seem to get that last tip or clean shot to beat the goalie while the other team mucks it up and stays in it by playing their best.
Kudos to Portugal's keeper - made very judicious decisions on when to race all the way out of the box and foil US runs.
Spared by the post. Probably not a Cup winning team, but still alive and capable of getting it done.
???
I watched the game and the US did NOT have the balance of play. Portugal looked like the better more composed team throughout. They easily absorbed the WSWNT's predictable, ineffective direct attacks and controlled possession from there.
When Portugal did go on the attack with 10 minutes left (they should have done this with 20 minutes left), the US was on its heels. The ball-off-the-post shot was not the only near-death experience the USWNT had near the end of the game.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
The World Cup has been a disappointment so far from the US women. The world has caught up with US development, but we were still the favorites, and still have a ton of good players. We shouldn’t be a post away from going out in the group stage. That said, there are a variety of issues right now:
- We are between generations right now. The Morgan/Ertz/O’Hara generation is coming to the end of their careers. Rapinoe and Sauerbrunn are basically at the end of their careers. We have players like Sophia Smith that are close to filling that gap, but the transition isn’t easy. The backbone of this team is pretty old, and it’s really hard to get the balance right with these transitions.
- Players who seemed ready to step up and fill that generational gap haven’t taken that next step. Rose Lavelle looked like the next big thing in 2019, but she’s been injured a lot and hasn’t developed as much as you’d like.
- Injuries have hurt us a lot. Sauerbrunn, Sam Mewis, and Catarina Macario would all be starters. Mewis in particular would be huge to have in midfield.
- Coaching is clearly a huge downgrade. I wasn’t the biggest Jill Ellis fan, but she’s way better than Vladko. I said it’s hard to manage the transition from generations, but he’s done a bad job there. Our team is filled with 30 year olds, and the women’s game is getting younger. He continued to play the older players and set us up for a down cycle now. The tactics aren’t working, and his in-game decisions are bad (1 sub against the Dutch is not okay).
- The off field stuff is a red herring. The 2019 team was surrounded by controversy but still dominated that tournament.
I think the US will crash out early, unfortunately. But they have the talent to win it all, so you never know. In particular, if they can shoot better, they are extremely dangerous. The defense has been really good, especially with Sauerbrunn missing.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
I'm not very impressed with Vlad and his coaching/tactic thus far. Defense is fine for the most part but linking plays and getting quality scoring chances aren't there. You can see it for a couple of moments but for the most part, it's been disjointed.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^
DM09 & M4L - I agree on multiple fronts. I was just thinking about how it seems like a lot of the team are either of the "been around for a long time" or "just got here" varieties. And there's kind of no one in between. I think Ertz and Crystal Dunn are great but they're not playing their typical positions. Rapinoe and Lavelle are not in full-game mode. And it seems like the young players haven't come around yet, although Rodman and S Smith will likely be really good in the future. And don't forget - while there have been a lot of injuries a number of them have also had children in recent years, something that is not an issue on the mens' side.
I'm not an expert on this but the coaching sure does not seem good. They're not really playing together and I think the head coach's lineup and subbing decisions have not given them the best chance to succeed.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
On the injuries - you left off one of the biggest offensive threats in the past couple of years for the US squad - forward Mallory Swanson. Her injury in April really affected the offensive attack and the team really hasn't been able to fill her role as both scorer and offensive distributor with so little time before the start of the World Cup.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
Yep, I forgot about her. Great point.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
The problem with Sauerbrunn missing is that Ertz was moved to the back instead of playing the 6. Sullivan doesn't quite measure up.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
isn't this basically going to go the way of the men's basketball Olympic teams? Dominant for awhile, then started thinking wr could roll anyone out there and other countries started catching up talent wise, had a fee disappointing Olympics, wake up call, back on top but in a very competitive landscape where we can't make mistakes or take anything for granted anymore.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
I may be wrong, but I do feel like part of the issue for basketball comes from lack of caring from many of the best players. With the Dream Team, your problem was figuring out who to leave home. Since then, more and more stars have opted out, and the NBA support hasn't been there either (the NBA seems like they prefer the stars not to play). Yes, the world has caught up some, but I doubt any country could seriously challenge us if our top players were participating and engaged. (Though to be fair, we've seemed to do pretty well at the Olympics--we've won gold at all but one Olympics (2004) since the Dream Team; it's the world championships where we've been more spotty).
It seems very similar to baseball and the WBC. MLB teams don't seem to want their players participating, and top players don't seem to play, which is why we've only won it once. Had we been putting out the baseball equivalent of the Dream Team, I'm pretty sure we'd have won gold at most if not all WBCs...
Difference is the US still has a major talent advantage in basketball and always has. Those basketball national teams that failed really didn’t think they had to try. And also national play was secondary to pro play. Here I think the national team is the biggest thing for these soccer players, but overall they just don’t have the talent gap anymore to win when they don’t play their best and when coaching is sub par
August 1st, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
It was always a matter of time for the USWNT. We have a ton of girls that play soccer, so we had a massive advantage over the rest of the world. But once the European powers started taking women’s soccer more seriously, they would make a big jump because they have better knowledge and coaching than we do.
I don’t think it means the US will fall away from being favorites and be closer to the men. I fully expect the US to be a top 10 team at all times but we won’t be the perpetual favorite forever.
I’ll also say that the women’s team played pretty lackluster until the semis in the 2015 World Cup and played their best two games against Germany and Japan to win. Lalas and Carli Lloyd are also pretty useless in terms of analysis. Platitudes is all they have.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
I think we still have a huge advantage because we have a ton of players and spend more money on them than anyone else because of Title IX. Other countries may have similar top-end talent, but they don’t have the depth we do. England and the US had similar injury problems going into the tournament. We were still favorites and expecting to win. England were neither. Most European leagues are dominated by a few teams, and the competition level week to week is higher in the NWSL.
I’m also not sure how much coaching benefits European teams, either. There is so much more money in men’s soccer than women’s soccer in Europe. Like factors of 100 to 1,000. The difference is not as big here, meaning it’s easier for coaches to go into the women’s game.
I do agree we’re not going to be favorites every tournament, but I still think we’ll be a top 5 team.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
Yeah -- this is very sober and smart comment, but I would offer one nuance ...
Totally agree that USA has plenty of resources invested in women's soccer nationally, but those investments are super, super focused on youth and college vs pro. And so we bring many players up to a certain level, but not much higher and the investment is really pretty shallow, I think, at pro level.
NWSL is not, as far as I can tell, the league of choice anymore -- more USWNT-level players have played in Europe in the last 5 years (including our captain!) than I can remember in the ten years previously. Why are they going there? Because NWSL isn't very good soccer. NWSL salary cap is $1.4 million. Arsenal women's team salary is ~$5 million. Which team is likely to have better players? Which team is likely to have better supporting investment?
I think that's the big difference. The Euro teams look more physical and better prepared for the speed of play. Americans are clearly adjusting -- you can see it all over, too many touches, missed chances by Morgan, Rodman and Smith trying to dribble thru double teams, etc. These players are doing stuff that works in NWSL but doesn't in WC.
There probably is a tactical naivety side to this too, but I don't think that's the main problem. Much of the world plays a 4-3-3 ... It seems pretty clear at this point that our team probably just doesn't have enough really, really good players.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
I think that’s a reasonable point, overall. I think the top end European teams are better than NWSL teams. But comparing them to Arsenal isn’t 100% fair, given that Arsenal invests a lot of money in their women’s team. If you look outside of the top 4 in England, the teams are very bad. Same with most other European league. Not as true in the NWSL.
I can’t find the stat now, but early in the tournament, NWSL players had by far the most goals and assists in the World Cup. It’s still the deepest league out there
All that said, I think your point that we don’t spend as much on the top-end players as other countries is likely valid. We’ll see what happens with that going forward.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
It’s changing though. Euro leagues are gradually getting stronger and the Women’s Champions League is far better than NWSL.
The coaching is going to be better because they are born into better ideas. They get exposed to a better soccer culture on a consistent basis.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
2015 we didn't start out well, but improved each game. Lloyd was a turnover machine. Cut down on them each game, balanced by scoring our only goal in the 2nd game, and had the big final. We were helped by Holliday being suspended due to yellow card accumulation, Morgan Brian stepping into the 6 capably despite her youth, which enabled Lloyd to be the 10.
Haven't felt like we've been improving game to game this time around. Of course it didn't help that players who would be starting fell out due to injuries, so our current players haven't had much PT together prior to the tourney.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
I set my alarm for 3:00 AM and watched the whole thing. They looked completely lost. Unable to mount any consistent pressure and really unable to even control possession with any sort of regularity. Couldn't string 3 passes together. Basically non-threatening on offense. Lucky to escape. I thought Rapinoe, who came on in the 60th minute, was the only player on the field who was able to be creative and generate any offense.
Don't look at all like a vintage USWNT...
August 1st, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
I will agree that Rapinoe coming in as a sub was a spark. She had a few passes that were very close to causing threatening chances.
The passing was good for the most part, but man she can barely move. She's good for only about 10 minutes.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:51 AM ^
Most likely, the US will face Sweden in the round of 16.
IIRC - Sweden played very tactical, opportunistic soccer against the US in the 2016 Olympics and defeated the US - with some interesting post game comments from at least one US player (Hope Solo).
I expect the same in this match. Sweden will be sharper tactically - and, take advantage of the “experience” (or age) - of the US side.
If the Swedes go up by two goals, they’ll park the bus - which I expect will frustrate the US side - and just cruise slowly, through ball possession, to a win.
Solo didn't like that they went up a goal on the US and then parked the bus. Which was a smart (winning) move on their part.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:52 AM ^
I don't have any interest in women's soccer but I'll just say this...
Kneeling for social justice before some random NFL game is one thing.
Being brats on the world stage while wearing the national team kit is quite another.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
Yes, it is different. But you seem to insinuate that using the platform they have is wrong somehow, or that you disapprove of how they are using it. Can you elaborate more on this rather than lazily labeling them as "brats"? And what platform would you suggest they use in lieu of a soccer match?
If you are concerned that the U.S. is being embarrassed by this, maybe the U.S. should stop doing embarrassing things.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
"If you are concerned that the U.S. is being embarrassed by this, maybe the U.S. should stop doing embarrassing things."
Perfectly said.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:01 PM ^
If they're truly in thrall to their grievances, they should boycott international competition.
It's not realistic to expect the US to "stop doing embarrassing things," whatever that means.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^
Didn’t see the game, but I did watch the first two. The team seems discombobulated and really struggles to finish. Almost like they are in their own heads.
They look like 2018 men’s Germany to be honest. An obviously talented squad that for whatever reason isn’t finishing like you’d expect and do not appear to play together as effectively as you would hope.Their title defense looks to be a short one.
The “SJW” stuff is relevant only to the extent that the Right’s schadenfreude will be loud once the USWNT are eliminated.“Go Woke Go Broke” will be shouted out loudly and widely by the Right.
(Not that any of the Right truly cares about soccer. )
Vlatko should be fired after they are eliminated.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
Sorry, I don't watch teams or players that disrespect the flag the anthem and the nation.I stopped watching them long time ago TC
Gee, I wonder why they’d have trouble with the next generation…maybe because they’ve continually insulted and offended half the country?
We’re going to get downvoted because this board is pretty far left, but I couldn’t care less and 100% agree with you. I also have 2 younger daughters and they dislike the team for their actions/comments also, that’s their next generation. The sooner this team is out of the news, the better imo
yeah yeah the silent majority that never shuts up. Luckily for everyone, you're no where near half the country, and the most of the next generation isn't buying your bullshit.
People’s opinions change as they age and there are generations who are following the one you refer to. These conflicts are going to remain.
Additionally, there are waves of people coming from deeply religious countries. Progressives assume that migrants being black and brown equals automatic support for their causes. That…uh, yeah, isn’t necessarily true for people who are Catholic or Muslim. LGBT rights in particular will be an issue.
What is it that your daughters dislike about what the current team is doing/saying? Please know that young children mimic the dispositions, attitudes and beliefs of trusted adults until they achieve autonomy, and sometimes for a while after as they develop critical thinking skills. And no, disagreeing on certain issues like bedtime and screen time is NOT suggestive of autonomy, it is just egocentrism. The US women's team is standing for women's rights. What are you teaching your girls to stand for that they are offended by this?
August 1st, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
Sorry, I don't watch teams or players that disrespect the flag the anthem and the nation.I stopped watching them long time ago TC