đź”’USWNT
I didn't watch the game, but was able to watch the highlight of it. Boy, USWNT did not look good and was fortunate that they were able to draw against Portugal. Yes, they don't have some of the players, but still, poor half against the Dutch and a poor game against Portugal is a cause for concern as they move onto the knockout rounds. The coaching and tactic has been predictable at best.
The world has started to catch up to the USA and they're much more technically proficient than them. The lack of youth development compared to Europe has started to bite them in the butt. Also, the rest of the world's younger generation has had more training compared to 10-20 years ago. That's JMO on my observation with Women's Soccer thus far.
Thoughts?
[Thread locked and warnings issued. Several offensive posts deleted. See Moderator Sticky Thread for details.---rob f]
August 1st, 2023 at 10:18 PM ^
Yes, I remember when I was drafted for Operation Desert Storm and had to...wait. I wasn't drafted then. Because no one has been subject to the draft since the Vietnam War fifty years ago.. Because we have an all-volunteer army now.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:41 PM ^
That’s not the point, women have never been subject to the draft in this country and they never will. Lucky for them.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
Who cares???
When I was preparing for competition my mind was always on what I need to do in the sport or competition I am about to participate in. I normally don't sing it myself. I'm focused on what I need to do and thinking about situations that might arise and how I need to react to them. You need to be laser focused.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^
I blame the vets. Rapione looked old and slow, Morgan’s lost her killer instinct, and the midfield play was (charitably speaking) uninspiring. If we’re going to do anything in this tournament, it’s the veterans that will have to lead and I haven’t seen much of that thus far.
Honestly, I saw some of same stuff but I blame the coaching not killer instinct or anything. Why so many runs in front of the front post? Those are so hard to finish. And why so much direct play up the middle, there doesn’t seem to be any strategy around setting up opportunities except off set pieces
I think it's far more the midfield play and the lack of elite players in their prime than the play of veterans. IMO, this was always the World Cup for the Horan/Dunn/Lavelle generation – and while they're all good players – they're not world-class and that's about it. The gaps in this generation are showing where they need to be filled by veterans (Rapinoe, Ertz, Naeher) or they are being outplayed by young players (Smith, Rodman)
Personally, I'm grouchy about the direct style of play because it's ugly as sin to watch, but looking at our midfield options, I'm hard-pressed to complain too much because it makes sense with just the makeup of the team. If we're going to win, we're going to out-athlete teams to get the ball into the final third and then hope the xG luck pulls through in our favor with enough chances.
Ironically, I'm confident that this USWNT team will look better against the higher-quality teams that will look to possess the ball. A team that looks to attack will leave more space open in transition and a Rodman/Morgan/Smith frontline will feast; compared to teams bunkered down like Vietnam or Portugal that are asking the US to break them down without space.
Speaking on the vets specifically, Alex Morgan has impressed me with how she's transitioned to veteran play. For being the "Baby Pony" when she first broke through – a player who primarily won with speed and power – she's really improved in her technical ability, composure in front of goal and developed a bit of that Robbie Keane / David Villa veteran fox-in-the-box striker's instinct. I think she can play in the next World Cup, even if it's just as a super sub when you need a late goal. (EDIT - RBNY-era Thierry Henry is probably the better comparison for Morgan's game development now that I think about)
she’s been banging the “culture” drum since she started getting fewer minutes. these things are not unrelated.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:19 AM ^
I'll take the blame here - I put some money on the USA ladies to win the championship at +305.
Normally I do a reverse jinx thing where I bet against my teams and force the universe to choose between my happiness and my wallet...LOL.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
They are going to get BLASTED by Sweden in the round of 16.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
Definitely a very possible outcome.
Sweden has had a strong side for a long time. Unless the USWNT flips a switch - their WC trip down under could come to an abrupt end.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:00 PM ^
If they play like they have for five out of six halves in the tournament so far yes Sweden wins by 2-3 goals. If they play like they did 2nd half against the Dutch I'd give the US a coin flip chance to win.
That's well said -- they looked like the most dangerous team in the tournament in that second half against the Dutch. That was just the one half though... hard to explain how they were so inspired for one half and so lackluster for the rest of the tourney thus far.
The Dutch looked tired at the end of that second half.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
Always seemed likely the world would catch up to us right? We had a big head start on the world but ultimately the same factors that dog the men will probably catch up to the women- the US just doesn't care about soccer nearly as much as most of the world does.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
Not sure why you were downvoted, unless by a keen soccer fan who's friends with other soccer fans.
Even as many American soccer fans are passionate, it seems to me your main point is right, that other countries care more about soccer.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
Women's soccer occupies a weird space here in America. If you're an ultra athletic boy, you will be steered toward a sport where you can eventually make serious money, like football, baseball, or basketball. The incentives aren't there to choose soccer as your main sport.
For athletic girls, though, there really isn't a clear path to get paid. You have the WNBA, but the top salary in the WNBA ($235k) is less than a quarter of the minimum salary for an NBA rookie ($953k).
That makes soccer an attractive option, since you can actually do well for yourself with endorsements deals, etc. by playing for USWNT.
Nevertheless, soccer still only occupies a small sliver of the national conscience, and we don't seem inclined to build the infrastructure necessary to keep a big competitive edge. It is what it is.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:48 AM ^
Soccer for non-USWNT players hasn't been that great. It got better in the last CBA, but prior to that, there was a "no more side hustles" desire from the players. They needed to have some other jobs, which they'd lose if they got traded.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:51 AM ^
I think it's more than infrastructure.
Working a few years with Eastern Europeans, I saw how deeply soccer is embedded in those cultures. South American culture too. Kicking a ball around is as much habit as sports for all ages.
AND it's easier and more convenient to play soccer. Playing football, basketball, baseball requires space and special equipment. All soccer needs is players and a ball. And a ball is not always necessary: I saw 4 guys play "soccer" in a hallway with a soda can.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:09 PM ^
You're absolutely right that it's more than just infrastructure, and the infrastructure wouldn't be there without the culture. If soccer is a nationwide obsession in Country X, powerful people will capitalize on that by building teams and facilities, and pipelines naturally form with kids who grew up on soccer.
In America, you still see kids kicking the ball around, because it is easy to play, but you grow up watching LeBron or Mahomes or Ohtani. And athletic kids will tend to follow their athletic idols.
Of course. You're right.
EDIT: It's bottom up and top down, what little kids do "naturally"—that is, culturally, what feels normal—AND what institutions decide they can make money on.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
This may be true in mens sports but soccer is the dominant women's sport in this country. The women playing, and girls coming up behind them, definitely care. We have won the past two cups. We aren't going to win every one ever played just because we have been the best. The tactics have been uninspiring but its also clear we are lacking that true difference maker. A lot of really great young players and a bunch that are getting long in the tooth. That middle group just isn’t as strong, or impactful, as some previous generations.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^
We had a big head start on the world but ultimately the same factors that dog the men will probably catch up to the women- the US just doesn't care about soccer nearly as much as most of the world does.
I'm not sure I buy this. Yes, it's true for men. Men's soccer in the US has to compete with football, basketball, baseball and hockey, as well as some of the individual/Olympic sports (golf, tennis, track, etc.). MLS is almost certainly at best the fifth most popular men's professional sports league in the country--certainly behind the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL, and quite possibly behind the PGA as well--whereas the soccer leagues are pretty uniformly #1 in every other country with a decent national soccer program.
But where's that competition on the women's side? There is no football equivalent for women, and softball and hockey are pretty much nonentities professional-wise outside of the Olympics. So you have the WNBA (which seems to only be afloat because it's actively subsidized by the NBA), the LPGA, and tennis as the real competition to soccer outside of Olympic sports. And this is in a country of 330+ million people. I would argue that with the success and exposure that the USWNT has, and especially with the reforms to compensation for the USWNT, soccer is one of the most appealing athletic avenues for female athletes. I.e. for women pursuing a team sport (as opposed to individual sports like golf, tennis, or Olympic sports), soccer is likely the first or second most appealing option. That doesn't scream "lack of care" to me...
August 1st, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^
Glad I didn't stay up to watch. I had actually considered it.
On the whole, across the entire tournament so far, they are not generating the kind of scoring chances with a high likelihood of conversion - crosses to a sole target with 3 or 4 defenders nearby; taking on defenders when they don't have numbers, leading to 1 v 2 or 3 situations, not 3 v 2, 4 v 2. Too many touches as well for this level, often times 4 or 5 touches that allows the defense to close them down and force a bad dribble. Or when they do try and move the ball quickly into the attacking third, it's obvious and into disadvantageous situations that're already or easily defended.
That said, there is plainly a lot of individual skill on the field. It would be good to see it gel more and be willing to work the field as a whole, be more patient, and break down back lines rather than loft crosses into loaded boxes and take shots from 20 yards out.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^
Fair observation. The USWNT has been a leader for a long time - definitely, one of the strongest contenders for the World Cup.
This year is different. They need more cohesion - ball control - possession - and creativity. The offense seems lacking - and unfortunately they appear a bit disorganized on the pitch.
The knockout stage is upon us … win or go home. Australia, Sweden, Japan, England, Columbia, and the Netherlands - will be solid teams and challenge to raise the Cup.
I’ll cheer the ladies on - but, the path ahead will not be easy.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
They let their fame go to their heads and lost focus on soccer. Now they're going to pay the price for that.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
that's some grade-a imaginary gibberish, right there.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
You could have said that about the last team, had they failed. But this is a roster with 14 players who are at their first world cup. Rapinoe's a sub and not really stealing the spotlight like she did 4 years ago. Morgan's been a bit of a dud but subbing her out hasn't helped anything so far. Horan doesn't play like she's lost focus. Lavelle is recovering from injury and still getting her game together. Smith, Rodman, DeMelo and Thompson have all shown various degrees of high-level play, but their youth has shown at times too. Sullivan just doesn't have it but has a stranglehold on the CDM spot for whatever reason. Etrz and Dunn are playing out of position. Girma has been awesome. Fox isn't great at RB but hasn't been a detriment either and isn't who we should blame for not scoring goals.
The biggest issue with this team is the Manager. No changes between Vietnam and the Netherlands is a rookie move. No tactical changes between or within matches. Not getting every minute of Lavelle that we could have during the Dutch match. Running Smith/Morgan/Rodman out of gas against the Dutch - left FOUR subs on the bench. Not giving Lynn Williams a minute of action before starting the third game.
Playing for an incompetent manager has a huge negative effect on individual player form.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:01 PM ^
Lavelle is recovering from injury and still getting her game together.
also,
Not getting every minute of Lavelle that we could have during the Dutch match.
i take your meaning on both...but i'm not sure you can have it both ways, either.
there was definitely some discourse out there that lavelle should've played more against the dutch...my contention after that game was that she had fresh legs when coming in after halftime, and really gave us a boost. i didn't mind the way he used her. she didn't really have it today, though...although, admittedly, nobody else really did, either. and megan rapinoe definitely didn't - she looked slow and sloppy.
i don't disagree that both games have been mismanaged though. as you say, i don't know that you can point to any in-game tactical adjustments. it mostly seems like he's just waited for the talent to win out. that usually works when you have an overwhelming talent advantage. but not every time...and less often when teams are more evenly matched.
Lavelle at 80% is less effective than if she was at 100%, but at 80% she still a top 3 player on this roster IMO. She went the whole 2nd half, which means she probably could have subbed in at 30 mins, gave you 15, rested 15, and then had fresh legs for the 2nd half.
If the coach is too much of a coward to make a 1st half sub, then just start her and see how long she can go. 45, 60, 75, 90, whatever. The coach's decision put a cap on it at 45 minutes which was my problem.
i don't know what being a "coward" has to do with any of this.
Crystal Dunn is out of position? Where "should" Dunn be playing (or not playing, IMO)? How many times a game do we have to hear "bad pass by Dunn" before she gets replaced?
August 1st, 2023 at 10:28 AM ^
Attitude reflects leadership.
A certain somebody in that locker room is cancerous.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
UM QB Feagin
August 1st, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
Damn, you beat me to it.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
Unfortunately, this USWMT will not win the World Cup. To many other talented teams. My money is on the Netherlands!
August 1st, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
It was definitely nĂŁo bom. We were inches away from being sent home. A Portugal sub beat the D, her shot beat Naeher, hit the post and bounced away.
We had some opportunities to cross far post, but always seemed to go short, so never saw those chances created.
Lavelle got another yellow, so is out for next game. It's really not looking good. I think we'll be facing Sweden, and I'm feeling like we won't be advancing, the way we've played. Last World Cup we scored first in the first 12 min of every game but the final. This time we beat Vietnam (though not as badly as the Netherlands did), and it's been blah ever since.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
They looked like crap. Played disjointed and uninspired. Carli Lloyd blasted them in her post game analysis for celebrating and dancing after barely surviving the group stage. She also stated that there's been too much focus with the off field issues rather than their on field performance as a team. I couldn't agree more. They seem to be more focused on being celebrities/acceptable social justice warriors rather than excelling at the sport they're paid to play. This team will make history as the worst US performance in the 32 years of the WWC
August 1st, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
They seem to be more focused on being acceptable social justice warriors rather than excelling at the sport they're payed to play.
ow, my eyes just rolled right out of my head on that one.
just so we're clear - are you honestly suggesting that they're not focusing enough on playing soccer? you see them on the practice field and in the weight room, do ya? by all means, enlighten us on the actual specifics on what form that takes, beyond maybe seeing someone's social media posts.
August 1st, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
But that proves the point. If they’re practicing and training for soccer, they obviously aren’t barefoot and pregnant, ergo SJWs. It’s one of those catch 22 type things.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:48 AM ^
Yeah, they should shut up and dribble and accept less money than they're worth and maybe find a man and give their poor parents some grandchildren already!
August 1st, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Who's social media posts are you refering to?
August 1st, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
i'm not.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
"beyond maybe seeing someone's social media posts" - Who is the "someone"
August 1st, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^
He's saying: What are you basing your assertion on that "they aren't focused on soccer", just from YOU viewing their social media posts?
The "someone" is whichever player you are referring to in your first comment.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
exactly right. he said they're not "focused on soccer," or some such jive. i'm asking him to show his basis for saying that, BEYOND seeing someone posting "we should get paid the same as men" on instagram, or whatever. and no, i haven't seen anyone's posts. that's kinda the point.
August 1st, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
My "basis" is I watched all 3 games, I saw how they celebrated after the draw vs Portugal and the fact that their former teammate, Carli Lloyd was critical of their focus on off field issues during her post game analysis. Also, I'm not on social media of any kind so your assupmtion that I saw someone posting "we should get paid the same as men" on instagram, or whatever" is a non factor.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^
so why did you say they are focused on being social justice warriors?
August 1st, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
again: you said them being "social justice warriors," SPECIFICALLY, was taking away their focus on the game. show your work.
or don't. whatever.
August 1st, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^
I did. If you don't wanna accept my opinion, then don't. whatever