UM/OSU 2017 Refs - 10 questionable calls
1.) Holding on Hudson? - TD Drive - Also, is Winovich being held?
2.) Holding on Bredeson? Ref was 25 yards away - Klatt disagrees
3.) Schoenle blocked in back
4.) Glasgow blocked in back
5.) Spot on O'Korn?
6.) No call on Interference against DPJ - Klatt calls out ref again
7.) Blatant hold against Hurst - The mis-call of the game - TD Drive
8.) No PI against McDoom?
9.) Cheap hold on Cole - Klatt says poor call
10.) Holding against Winovich?
If someone can embed, please do so.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:04 PM ^
Jesus fucking mother fuckng and fucking and double fucking Christ I'm sick of people refusing to blame the disgusting fucking refs when they fucking NEED to be blamed and using the absurd logical fallacy that since we still had chances we didn't take advantage of or that we made mistakes that cost us then that negates the refs being the REASON (not "excuse") that we lost!!!
What that "logic" means is that if you get the benefit of horrible calls in your favor then that ERASES all of YOUR mistakes and shields you from criticism and that if you make mistakes you have no right to complain about the refs by fucking law or something!!!
The FACT is that mistakes or poor performance by coaches, teams and players DOES NOT excuse the mistakes and poor performance by the refs and DOES NOT negate the EFFECTS of certain bad calls/non calls, and sure as fuck DOES NOT mean a team doesn't "deserve" to win because they weren't perfect or could have played better, as long as IF you would have won the game with correct calls even WITH all of your mistakes and deficiencies!!!!!!!!!
Why on earth should an outside force uncontrollable by the team and players decide the game when it would've been different solely based on what the teams and players and coaches did in the game?
Why on earth is ONLY the team that gets screwed by the refs required to be mistake free in order to "deserve" to win or have the "right" to complain, especially when NO TEAM or coach ever coaches or plays a perfect game and when in ALL the egregious recent screwings, like 2015 sparty and the last 2 buckeye games, the other team either made far MOAR, or a ton, of mistakes and bad plays and bad coaching, and long periods of sucking, than we did, and were outplayed by us overall???
If things were reversed, you "don't blame the refs" eyeless people would have said we didn't deserve to win because if you come out totally unprepared, and are so outcoached and outplayed and dominated that you get minus 6 yards for the entire first fucking quarter, and the team that started as a 17 point dog would've been up 21 to nothing in a heartbeat if it wasn't for BOTH a made up holding call on a play that otherwise ended the drive, AND an incredible dropped INT on a pass so bad that it alone should have disqualified "us" from "deserving" status!!!
Every shitty, crappy, terrible bit of play or coaching fuck up by the rivals in those games is totally ignored, and they get a free pass, and somehow they proved that they deserved to win and know how to win, and are just better than us, regardless that they did more bad things than we did, and that given what each team actually fucking did on the field, ONLY won because of gifts or cheating from the fucking terrible refs!!!
November 28th, 2017 at 4:48 PM ^
if you don't bitch about this, your program continues to get worked. If the discrepancy in calls based on a consistent standard were applied, then the argument would be just what you are suggesting, get over it, make more plays.
But a different standard seems to be applied for these calls which are made and then not called in Michigan's favor. Why? And that inconsistency is the reason for the anger and post game analysis beyond the obvious.
The only significant call in the game against Ohio State, came on a near punt block by Jordan Glasgow near the end of the first quarter in which he was tackled not held near or in the end zone. The play drew multiple flags and on it DPJ ran back the punt for a near TD. If the penalty occurred in the end zone, well, that is a safety. And so, on the play Michgian would have been awarded two points and then recieved a kick from the Buckeyes.
Instead, after much trepidation and complete confusion by the broadcasters and the crew, they marked off tacked on yardage to the DPJ punt return. But it appeared on camera as though the officials seemed completely uncertain about what they were doing on this play.
This was the most significant penalty of the game against Ohio State. The rest of the game, the Buckeyes were never called for anything more than a procedure penalty. Go back and check the record. Even defensive holding near their end zone later resulted in a botched up down situation and faulty or poor explanation by the broadcast.
The Glasgow penalty was the critial play of the game for Ohio State. And Michigan got no calls the rest of the game after that one. And I am not sure that Glasgow wasn't fouled in the end zone.
November 28th, 2017 at 10:50 AM ^
My biggest complaint: some of those calls are just too easy to make. So easy. The two punt return blocks in the back are so painfully obvious. Just please make the easy, obvious calls.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:21 AM ^
I agree - those were the two easiest calls on the day to make. Same ref for both. I wonder if he has the back-end responsibilities for the denzel ward muggings of DPJ.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:53 AM ^
and don't create phantom penalties like the two holding calls shown. i get that a lot of calls are missed (let them play) but don't miss the obvious ones or create ones when nothing is there.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 10:51 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 10:57 AM ^
I would be much more likely to take your opinion seriously if you knew the difference between "of" and "have"; just saying.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:28 PM ^
Correcting someones grammer on a football blog is not only annoying, but just plain fuckin weird. Look at me I am smarter than you. Ya who gives a flying flirp. How much can you bench?.
November 28th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^
*grammar
November 28th, 2017 at 2:07 PM ^
OK, though!
November 28th, 2017 at 10:54 AM ^
there are going to be some people who are unhappy with this thread. They will say "it does not matter that the refs screw us every time we play OSU, we need to beat them anyway. That is an excuse!" What they don't seem to understand is that the way the game is called makes it far more difficult for us to beat them. They are basically saying "I don't care that you don't have any eggs, that is an excuse(!), make me an omelette now." OSU is loaded, if the refs aren't going to call the game fair, we aren't going to be able to beat them. If Harbaugh leaves Michigan in the near future, I think it is entirely possible that he does so because he cannot get a fair whistle and is thus quite literally prohibited from winning games that he needs to win.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
remind me of boxing back in the day. the judges weren't going to dethrone the champ in a decision unless you really beat the hell out of him; or actually knock him out.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:30 PM ^
I kind of wonder the same thing, what will happen when a 10-1 Michigan goes down south next year?. We will get the benefit of calls since we will be on the verge of the playoffs? Maybe the understanding is that if you are close, the BIG will help you over the line? Since OSU was closer to getting over the line they get the benefit.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:44 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 10:53 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 11:16 AM ^
The torch and pitchfork crowd was out before the WD letter. The refs boned us in the OSU game last year and this year (though this year felt worse), but they didn't screw us in any of our other losses. Iowa and FSU was on the team. MSU and PSU was on the team. And we wouldn't give two squats about the refs last year if not for two bad INTs and a fumble on the OSU goal line.
All Warde needs to do is fix the MSU/OSU scheduling debacle, though TBH I don't want to go to Happy Valley and Columbus in the same year. I'd rather split those games and go to Trash Tornado™ and Columbus or Happy Valley in the same season.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:09 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 10:54 AM ^
has identified aspects of the team that need to improve for 2018.
Jim Delaney should do the same for Big 10 football officiating. It IS an issue.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:28 AM ^
Use intramural sports as a training ground for future B1G refs that won't bone us in big games. When I worked intramurals, we had two guys that went on to ref in college.
Of course, by time that happens, Delaney will say alumni can't referee their schools' games.
November 28th, 2017 at 10:57 AM ^
Actually you missed a huge one. The holding called when Baugh threw himself to the ground after little contact with LB.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:08 AM ^
It's the first one on the list and also the first highlight on the video.
November 28th, 2017 at 10:59 AM ^
Just went through it...
1) Definitely not a hold. The receiver trips and falls down. Hudson certainly gives him a little shove as he's falling, but it's 100% not a hold.
Was going to be 3rd & 8 instead it's a first down.
2) This is somewhat understandable. Bredeson isn't pulling his jersey, but the way the defender is moving, Bredeson is restricting him with his left arm. I'm not too mad about that call.
3 and 4) Yes, both of these are blocks in the back right in front of referees. They aren't close. I'm not sure how you miss either of these other than sheer idiocy.
5) Eh, that's tough in real time. I think Michigan ends up getting the 1st down so it doesn't matter. I'm more concerned with how replay officials can't ever get anything right. When you go through it in slow motion, it's fairly clear O'Korn makes the first down line.
6) This is the incredible one. In the video, you can see the referee staring directly at Ward tugging on DPJ's jersey so hard it comes off his shoulder pad. This is seriously criminal because it results in a punt instead of a 1st down.
7 and 10) Eh. Brian went through it in the game column. Initial reaction was the same, but on replay it looks like the OL is simply pushing Hurst past the QB. The Winovich one is slightly worse, but I can understand why neither was called.
9) Doesn't matter because it's declined due to O'Korn fumbling the snap, but that said if you don't call 7 or 10, I'm not sure how you call this. Cole shoves the DE to the ground using both hands, but it's never close to a hold.
8) Again, not sure how this isn't called. Free arm wrapped behind the receiver's back before the pass arrives is textbook PI. There's a back judge looking right at it. Shrug emoji.
Last year was definitely a screw job by the refs in so many different ways. This year fell more in line with just incompetence IMO.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
You can interpret the initial shove of Hurst past the QB as a legal play if you want, but keep watching. As Hurst is trying to pursue the QB, his OL has two fists full of jersey and is dragging him back. It's not even close to being legal. It's just insane.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:09 AM ^
It may be insane, but it is that type of play that rarely gets called as holding.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:50 AM ^
I see the Bredeson hold and the Hurst non-hold as very similar plays. One got called, one didn't. Similar comparison could be made for PIs involving Hudson and McDoom. Similar instances where the defender probably had a small impact in knocking the receiver off balance. Those calls should split 50/50, but obviously didn't. That's why the refs left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 11:55 AM ^
Just a reminder, Michigan definitely did not get the first down (not sure if you meant on review or thought we went for it on 4th). The spot was on 3rd down and since O'korn was out of bounds it stopped the clock and forced us to give the ball to OSU with 30 seconds left. Robbins had probably his best punt of the year to force a touchback and OSU took a knee, but that spot easily could have given Meyer a chance to run a few quick plays and get in FG range.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^
Ah sorry, for some reason I thought they went for it and got it. Minimal impact, but still. I can understand how they didn't get it right live, but it seems like a lot of these controversial reviews never favor Michigan.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:01 PM ^
we punted after that horrible spot. it was 4th down.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:33 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 2:01 PM ^
John O'Korn had the first down and it was plenty easy to see in real time. Past the first down marker on the screen for all to see in replay too. The stadium was in celebration mode then the ref called it back. They can't be that stupid - malicious intent no question about it. .
November 28th, 2017 at 11:00 AM ^
I changed my mind. The officiating in this game was absolute trash. I thought it wasn't as bad as last year but holy shit it was just as bad. Didn't really cost M the game but sure made it hard to make plays when apparently pass interference and blocks in the back are no longer penalties. Fuck this shit. So frustrating.
It almost would've been worth it for Harbaugh to just flip out and get in one of the refs' face. That's worth 15 yards. Might wake them up and get them to do their job right. Would psych up the team and crowd as well.
It's also hard to win the last two years when OSU needs 9 yards for a first down but Michigan needs 11.
Next year: let's get mean and blow them the fuck out. RUn it up on them.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:02 AM ^
There was also a point after a punt was downed at midfield that an official picked up the ball and just decided to move the ball back a yard...it was the most blatant of the bunch because it required no objectivity.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:04 AM ^
You left out the fact that Urban was at the 50 yard line after the replay offical ruled play to resume and the constant reminders he was given before the mercy "sideline warning"
November 28th, 2017 at 11:09 AM ^
you know if we had a sideline warning last year?
November 28th, 2017 at 11:09 AM ^
I'm not one for conspiracies but the Big Ten did need OSU to win this game to give them in Wisconsin the best chance at making the CFP. that being said I dont see there being any mandate by the B1G telling the refs to screw us. Maybe it could be implied by head official to his crew when they do prep for the game. maybe there is bias that some refs will give the benefit of the doubt to the "better" team. who knows. you see it in boxing where early, uneventful rounds will go to the predetermined "better" boxer.
Edit: watched the whole video. what the fuck.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:03 PM ^
You can't just nitpick the bad calls against Michigan. Do an impartial review of all calls to displlay of we got an overwhelming # of bad calls against Michigan.
1) bad calls against each team
2) bad no calls against each team
I don't like some of the calls either, but at least do a complete review.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:51 PM ^
If you think OSU had a better team than Michigan last year you must know football a lot better than the NFL. So if the better team is suppossed to get the benefit of the doubt the officials did not receive that memorandum.
Probably a good thing I do not coach because if this was happening to my team I would have predetermined late hits on their QB. I also would also and most definitely run crossing routes directly at officials and have players drill any of them who gets in the way. After putting a couple of the fucks in the hospital I think we will get a fair shake. Officiating has become so bad I laugh every time one of them ends up on the ground. Yes that is over the top but they have ruined football for me and I can rarely make it through a game because they are so piss poor. Bringing the bias into it makes me want them flat out mangled.
The guys revuing replay are even worse. They are either ninety years old or on enough xanex and prozac to kill a bull elephant.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:07 AM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 11:08 AM ^
what? To next year when they do the exact same thing?
November 28th, 2017 at 1:23 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 11:08 AM ^
But if Metellus squeezes the ball on that INT, we regain all momentum and have a good shot at a short field with a chance to go up 3 scores. It could have been the will-breaking moment in the game.
Or if we just make one more 3rd and long stop, we could have never trailed.
It sucks. Blaming the refs is easy, but their suckiness will probably never change until they are paid to make this their full-time job. Only way to ensure the win against a good team is to go out there and out execute.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:14 AM ^
don't really agree with this necessarily. If there is referee bias, they can influence the game how and when they see fit. Say Metellus does pull that in, what is to say that we aren't called for generic holding on the first two plays of our ensuing drive, this eliminating any momentum that the play gave us.
Look at the hold on Bredeson on the Higdon carry. That looks like a "meh" play, right. Wasn't a big gain, did not negate a big play. But what it did do is take us from 2nd and 6 to 2nd and 20 right after OSU scored and we badly needed to answer. That altered the entire game, but nobody thinks it is a big deal because they play itself was not a big gainer.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:13 AM ^
How 8 or 9 of these calls were on the OSU side of the field...must be Urb's got in the ear of that LJ real good. SMH...
November 28th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
i made this comment to my buddy at the game. i sit behind the opponents bench. i said we have to run more plays to our sideline; especially punting.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:15 AM ^
Watch the games. Rewatch the games. Take the rose-colored glasses off and view them as an unbiased observer. It's obvious Michigan is getting screwed. The sad thing is, the officials are hurting the players. They put in tons of work and should be given a fair shake. Jim Harbaugh is going to be coaching this game a long time. He's going to win a lot of games, but the players have a short career. Their games should not be subject to some bias or payback that the officials want to give Harbaugh.
On the 2nd play in the video, Bredeson is called for holding. OK, fine, that could be a hold. But if you call that, YOU HAVE TO call at least one of the half dozen times that the OSU lineman did the same thing to Hurst. Watch that play again. Watch how the OSU defender sells the hold by jerking his head back. We don't do that. Watch the game and see how the OSU WRs sell the DPI by flailing about. They are the Vlade Divac of flopping.
On the punt returns, McCray and Glasgow both get up off the ground and make the flag throwing gesture. Guys know when they get hit in the back. Those guys aren't going to try to draw a flag when they aren't hit because replay would make them look silly. The Glasgow block in the back happened 5 yards in front of the referee.
There was a holding on OSU that they called in the endzone. I think their LB grabbed our TE on a crossing route. What's amazing about it is that the back judge didn't throw his flag. It happened right in front of him, but he didn't see our guy get mugged. Fortunately, another ref ~25 yards away was able to see it and threw the flag.
I don't think the bad spot cost us points, but you never know. It was clearly a bad spot. You don't spot the ball where the foot is. You spot the ball where the ball is. Every ref should know this. So how is the ball at the same spot as the foot when a 6 foot tall player is leaning forward at a 45 degree angle AND extending his arm forward?
I thought the first quarter was reffed OK, except for 2 missed holds on Hurst. But that didn't matter because OSU's offense went 3 and out. It's when we were up 14-0 that the refs really started tilting the field in OSU's direction. WWE-level stuff. Crooked-NBA-ref-level stuff. Sad. Bigly Sad!
I guess that's a couple pennies more than 2 cents, but whatever. On to the bowl game.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:27 AM ^
This game still feels tame in comparison to last years robbery - just my opinion. OSU did have more penalties than us in this game, but our penalties seemed to be of the ticky-tacky variety and many of their obvious penalties went uncalled.
As far as the poor spot for the JOK run, it looks very clear that Higdon tackles the blitzer and should have drew a flag.
I heard a caller yesterday on Sirius ('Canes fan) talking about how the ACC has it out for them and that they have only had 2 offensive holds called in favor of their defense going all the way back to last season. I guess we are not the only ones.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^
Also, of those 7 penalities I believe there are two false starts, 1 delay of game, and 1 holding on a punt that had minimal impact. In fact, let's break it down...
M: JBB false start
OSU: Price false start
OSU: Hold on the punt (Result: M gets half the distance to the goal line)
M: Hold on Hudson (Result: 1st down instead of 3rd and 8-ish, OSU scores a TD)
OSU: Delay of game turns 3rd and 4 into 3rd and 9 (Barrett scores anyways)
M: Hold on Bredeson (Result: 1st and 17 instead of 2nd and 7-ish, M picks up 1st down after that)
M: Illegal formation on a punt (OSU gets 20 yards of field position)
OSU: Illegal contact on Okudah on punt return (Result: ball moves from Michigan 17 to Michigan 32)
OSU: Holding on Worley (3rd and goal at the 7 becomes 2nd and goal at the 3)
M: Watson holding (Result: 4th and 5 becomes 1st and 10, but this was definitely a hold IIRC)
OSU: Back to back false starts (Result: sets up 3rd-and-13, Haskins hits a huge pass that Watson barely misses, OSU scores go ahead TD)
OSU: Personal foul on Hubbard on the INT return
M: Crackback on Evans (Result: Insignificant)
OSU: Facemask on Holmes on the insignficant last drive
So, of Ohio State's 9 penalties, 4 are either false starts or delays of game. The 5 live ball penalties are a punt catch interference which features no room for interpretation, the blatant hold in the end zone by Worley, the hold on the punt team which results in 3 yards for M, and the 2 stupid penalties after O'Korn backbreaking INT.
November 28th, 2017 at 11:41 AM ^
I think your first point is the most important. Similar plays in the same game are getting called different ways, and over the last two years, Michigan is on the wrong end of that coin flip. At the very least, there needs to be some consistency in how these games are officiated.