Twitter exchange between Brandon Brown and former football assistant Biff Poggi
I find it very fascinating that members of the media, bloggers, and the general public are quick to jump to conclusions and are so easily convinced that their own takes are correct. Anyway, here's Brandon Brown intentionally misinterpreting Coach Harbaugh for clicks, followed by someone who actually coaches football (including coaching at Michigan under Harbaught) providing his own take based on that experience.
Click to visit the original on Twitter
November 30th, 2020 at 3:52 PM ^
Username does not....
November 30th, 2020 at 10:00 PM ^
Just goes to show how most on this board were over the moon excited that Jim Harbaugh was going to be the HC of Michigan, myself included. Excited enough to change usernames or avatars. Six years later and <insert all the depressing loss stats> and here we are.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:00 PM ^
Sorry to say, I agree with you. Seemed like a shell of himself from 2015-18. Maybe it’s coaching a covid season with major injuries, opt outs, etc. But recruiting DT’s has been terrible and players have left including the qb heir apparent as recently as last season’s end. Something is off with JH, not sure what. Maybe it’s true that he wears out his welcome after 4 -5 years. And when did he stop wearing a M ball cap and shirt to pressers.
November 30th, 2020 at 3:48 PM ^
conflicted.....
done with Harbaugh
yet, kinda have to listen to Biff.....
i mean.....it's Biff Poggi......
November 30th, 2020 at 3:57 PM ^
Twatter
November 30th, 2020 at 3:58 PM ^
Learned a long time ago you don't believe a coaches take on a current situation as it is skewed and never really addresses the reality of the situation. Currently Harbaugh is on the 90 percentile of that group.
East German Judge has some performance based data for you...
November 30th, 2020 at 3:59 PM ^
I don't have to be a football expert to know what a successful program should look like in years 4 - 6 of a coaching tenure. Here are a couple of examples:
Harbaugh (Michigan): 10-3, 9-4, 2-4 to date
Swinney (Clemson): 11-2, 11-2, 10-3
Saban (Alabama): 10-3, 12-1, 13-1
Meyer (OSU): 12-1, 11-2, 12-2
Kelly (ND): 9-4, 8-5, 10-3
Franklin (PSU): 11-2, 9-4, 11-2
Ferentz: 11-2, 10-3, 10-2
Chryst (Wisconsin): 8-5, 10-4, 2-1 to date
Gundy (Okie St): 9-4, 9-4, 11-2
Mack Brown (Texas): 11-2, 11-2, 10-3
Campbell (Iowa St): 7-6, 7-2 to date
Dantonio (MSU): 11-2, 11-3, 7-6
Stoops (Oklahoma): 12-2, 12-2, 12-1
Miles (LSU): 8-5, 9-4, 11-2
Harbaugh will be the only one to have a season with a losing record. Years 4-6 are important because they represent when the team is fully built on the coach's players and the coach's scheme.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:08 PM ^
Kelly's record in year 4 is actually 0-4. They vacated all of the victories due to academic violations.
You're also conveniently cherry picking stats to leave out his 4-8 record in 2016. Shouldn't they have fired him at that point? Then how do you explain the results today?
Dantonio had a down year in year 6 as well, going 7-6. He followed that with 13 wins. In 2016, he fell to 3-9. They followed that with 10-3.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:25 PM ^
Well, since Kelly went to the national Championship game before that, no. He bought himself some rope. Dantonio took a bad program, beat OSU and won double digit games. So, no again. That’s how this works. Win meaningful things, get more time. Don’t win meaningful things, lose your job. Hell, in Harbaugh case you could make a case for him if OSU was his only loss. It isn’t. No point in going through the numbers. You know them all. Can’t win on the road, can’t beat ranked teams, can’t win bowl games, can’t beat horrible MSU teams more than 50% of the time.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:28 PM ^
ND had all their wins in that 2012 NCG season vacated too so I don't see how that buys him any rope at all.
Let me ask you this: if Michigan had beaten OSU in 2016, does it change anything for you today?
November 30th, 2020 at 4:34 PM ^
Of course. Championships buy rope. Like I said. Michigan didn’t win that game and have been progressively worse since. The decline is a big reason why it’s time for Jim to go.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:39 PM ^
Let me ask you what has Harbaugh done successfully as a coach at Michigan? Your asking lame deflection questions without making any case for what he’s actually done well.
Do you think the program is moving in a positive direction?
November 30th, 2020 at 4:54 PM ^
He's recruited several top10 classes. He's helped a ton of guys get to the NFL. He's had 3x 10 win seasons in 6 years. He had us on the cusp of winning the B1G and going to the playoffs.
He hasn't done worse vs. OSU than anybody else in our division -- nobody is shutting them down with any regularity. We had a coinflip game with them which we lost, Franklin/PSU had a coinflip game with them that they won.
It's a special kind of quantitative illiteracy to insist that changing the outcome of 2 plays in 2016 would buy Harbaugh a bunch of extra rope just because he would have "won something meaningful".
November 30th, 2020 at 6:17 PM ^
CarolinaBlue you can’t actually be serious with that rebuttal. No one in the division has done better? Try no ones done worse. Franklin and PSU have done essentially the same? That’s some delusional bs right there. Close loses are equal to wins now if it fits the point your trying to make? Franklin had a 3 year stretch in which he beat Meyer and followed it up with 2 one point loses( do we count those as wins as well). So no there not equal at all. Franklin has actually beat OSU and has been FAR more competitive. MSU is in our division correct? Yeah they’ve had more success vs OSU as well including victories .
November 30th, 2020 at 6:21 PM ^
If you don’t think a win against OSU in 2016 - and all that would have come with it (BIG title game, possible playoffs and more) - changes the narrative we’re looking at today, then it’s not even worth debating you because you’re so far away from reality.
November 30th, 2020 at 8:44 PM ^
you serious with this?
Where O where are those top 10 classes to help Michigan out of the hole that Harbaugh has dug? Oh yeah, they have bolted early, transferred, or are unfortunately injured. Those other empty spaces in the roster you see are where Jim completely whiffed on depth.
Yeah some make it to the NFl, but winning (or even for the love of god appearing in) B1G Championships are what the entire team strives for.
3x10 win seasons (which don't mean quite what they used to when teams can play 14+ games) but either way they usually include a head scratching loss during the meat of the season, followed by an often embarrassing loss to OSU at the end and then to cap it off a limp-dick effort against a bowl opponent they outranked.
On the cusp of winning the B1G (a game we didn't even make it to) is a reason to keep Harbaugh, but somehow it's not a reason that (if he had won) it would give him more rope now?
You're contradicting yourself.
I think the Harbaugh coaching positives are paper thin. Hoke got top 10 classes at Michigan too. Other coaches have beaten Urban Meyer, most elite recruits make it to the NFL.
What does Harbaugh do as well or better than most top coaches ? It sure as hell has nothing to do with QBs, clock management, or staff/roster retention.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:48 PM ^
They had their wins vacated? Do you think the fan base really cares what the NCAA did?
November 30th, 2020 at 4:52 PM ^
right? i remember, just a year ago, people wanting the final 4 banner from the Fab Five days hung up in Crisler.
November 30th, 2020 at 6:30 PM ^
I didn't cherry pick anything. Those are the coaches records in their 4th, 5th, and 6th seasons to compare against Harbaugh's 4th, 5th, and 6th seasons. I specifically explained why I picked that period of their coaching careers. I specifically grabbed a broad selection of schools and coaches over a period of recent history so you couldn't complain about the sampling.
You keep saying you want specifics, but when given, you suddenly don't understand or become obtuse. I know it hurts to suddenly face reality, but Jim Harbaugh does not live up to "Leaders and Best" when it comes to on-field accomplishments.
If you want to argue about what he does off the field, I will agree with you all day long. I love the foreign trips. I love the APR rankings. I love the graduation rate. I love the limited, if any, public legal incidents. While all of that is important so is winning games (big games, not just the easy ones), especially at a program like Michigan.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:00 PM ^
Brandon Brown has slowly devolved into being clickbaity shitty reporter
November 30th, 2020 at 4:26 PM ^
I think he's more interested in being liked and found cool by the denizens of whatever fan site he's working at for that particular day (check back tomorrow 'cause it'll probably change).
November 30th, 2020 at 4:49 PM ^
He definitely rubbed the staff here the wrong way and has been very unprofessional at times over the years. This is nothing new.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:19 PM ^
anyone who's profile picture is them in their car, I don't need to hear from.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:26 PM ^
To give it some context, here's kinda how this all got started. To be truthful Harbaugh's statements are at minimum a little perplexing. This was from an interview By Angelique
November 30th, 2020 at 4:29 PM ^
What specifically is perplexing about the statement? It all seems pretty clear to me.
November 30th, 2020 at 5:17 PM ^
“I think sometimes, outside of the program, I think people are very results oriented”
Gosh! The nerve of people, judging a coach by his won-loss record.
I would hope the AD is also results oriented
November 30th, 2020 at 4:33 PM ^
The Process™ is just another excuse. JT was short. The refs were from Ohio. The refs hate Harbaugh. Speight was injured. O’Korn was a bad QB. Michigan’s LBs were too slow. Patterson couldn’t make good reads or throw downfield. We had the wrong OC. We had the wrong OC a second time. Too many players left early. Don Brown recruited too many slow CBs. All our best players got random freak injuries.
Sorry but at some point you gotta reach the conclusion that a team which has NEVER played up to its competition, and habitually plays down to its competition, is not a well-coached team. For all the bad luck Michigan has had, 6 years is more than enough time for things to go our way once or twice. Good coaches don’t need all the planets to align in order to have a good season or get a signature win. What’s most worrisome though is that Harbaugh’s problems show a lack of basic planning competency. The offense still has no identity and our skill players are lucky to play in the NFL, and they do so IN SPITE of their middling performances in college. The defense has a “don’t bend until you break” approach that got them rocked by OSU in 2018 due to one slow linebacker. The coaches responded by... recruiting slow CBs. Harbaugh will be 0-6 against OSU at the end of this year (let’s be honest, it’s a loss even if they don’t play). The defensive secondary is in such shambles it’s hard to see how he won’t be 0-7 at the end of next year. If the admins think it’s okay to extend a coach who is 0-6 vs OSU, doss that mean they’ve accepted being relegated to the dustbin of history, doomed to the fate of post-1950s Minnesota?
November 30th, 2020 at 5:03 PM ^
We've had 3 10 win seasons in 6 years, so I don't understand your point that we haven't had any good seasons.
I'd like to ask: who is beating OSU without getting incredibly lucky? What coach or team is consistently beating OSU without getting some helpful bounces, generous spots, or a few tipped balls going the right way?
November 30th, 2020 at 5:56 PM ^
I knew someone was going to nitpick and point out the success of the first two years. What is it going to take to convince you that Harbaugh is on a downward trajectory and probably won’t be able to recreate the 2015-16 teams often, if ever? The problems are getting bigger and the results are getting worse. Harbaugh’s first two teams were loaded with NFL players on defense that Harbaugh himself did not recruit. The offenses were mediocre to bad, and that turned out to be a fatal flaw when the 2016 offense couldn’t score more than 17 points in regulation against an average OSU defense (average for OSU, obviously they are always loaded). As to who is beating OSU consistently, obviously no one. But Michigan used to consider itself to be OSU’s rival, not OSU’s bitch. If we’re okay with being OSU’s bitch, by all means let’s change nothing and see how long this current 9-game losing streak will extend. Maybe PSU will keep Franklin and join Michigan and MSU in permanent mediocrity, destined to lose 9/10 games to OSU and enjoy an occasional 10-3 season as our ceiling. All 3 teams can hope that once in a decade, a sequence of miracle blocked punts and weird tiebreaker scenarios allows them to back into the BTCG. But if you want to hold out hope that Michigan can one day find its Saban, Dabo, Urban Meyer, or Kirby Smart, we are going to have to roll the dice here. Harbaugh ain’t it.
November 30th, 2020 at 10:17 PM ^
Perfectly stated. We have definitely become OSU's bitch. We used to have competitive games with them until about 2007 when the wheels started falling off. We beat them, a lot, in the 80's and 90's.
After 2016 the team has generally regressed. The defense was good to pretty good through 2019 which masked a lot of offensive problems. The cupboard on defense has become more and more barren and as this has transpired the deep cracks in the foundation are manifesting. And there is no evidence that Harbaugh can patch it up. It certainly is not happening next season as the DL will be stripped of Paye and Hutch. Who is coming down the recruiting pipeline that is going to get DL back to respectability? McGregor? Somerville? These guys are at least 1 or 2 seasons away from contributing. Where are the DTs? In the next 2 or 3 seasons we are going to get run over by any team with a decent OL and power running game.
This program needs a hard reset.
November 30th, 2020 at 7:02 PM ^
10 win seasons aren't what they were before. When you only played 11 or 12 games a ten win season was very impressive. Now that they have added a couple games it is not. Also, The first few years Harbaugh beat the teams he was higher rated than. Now he is not. From your responses, you think he needs more time? Also, Michigan used to beat Ohio State in a competitive balance. Now it is one sided. We have recruited well enough to compete, but are not competitive any more.
November 30th, 2020 at 4:37 PM ^
So what is Harbaugh saying?
"I look at it is some of the things—players are improving, we just talked about three, coaches impacting it. The team is competing. The team has really worked at that. There’s disdain for the process by some. To us, that’s the whole ballgame. Outside of the program, I think, people are results-oriented. The process to us is very important. The process is not as important outside of the program as it is to us inside the program."
It seems like the football dept. has a plan it is following that the general public doesn't understand and appreciate. Is he saying that winning is not emphasized as much within the football program as it is outside?
November 30th, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^
Who the F knows what the F that means. Can someone interpret Harbaugh to plain English for me?
November 30th, 2020 at 5:04 PM ^
I think what he is saying is that their focus right now, given that they have the #125 most experienced roster in division 1 in this weird-ass covid season, is on developing their young players.
November 30th, 2020 at 5:39 PM ^
Why didn’t these young players get any playing time, I don’t know, hmm, last year? And why are walkons playing, instead of young 4 stars right now, especially in this weird-ass covid season? It’s the same story every year, the practice warriors get playing time and young guys sit on the bench, thus becoming inexperienced players the following year. Rinse, repeat.
November 30th, 2020 at 8:32 PM ^
Is that like when Devin Funchess said wins are just a statistic?
November 30th, 2020 at 4:45 PM ^
This appears to go against the take that Poggi hated Harbaugh and wanted to get out of dodge...
November 30th, 2020 at 4:54 PM ^
Poggi, respect Poggi....
November 30th, 2020 at 5:20 PM ^
Msu has a whole new staff and are installing a new offense and defense and managed to beat #8 northwestern ! When the hell has harbaugh done anything like that! And we are making excuses up in year 6! They beat us with rocky lombardi!!!
November 30th, 2020 at 5:39 PM ^
Brandon Brown is a piece of shit. That is all.
November 30th, 2020 at 5:45 PM ^
We're in the sour (opposite of sweet) spot of recruiting. We recruit kids who are good enough that they think they should always be starting and many transfer when they're not. But we don't recruit well enough to hit on almost everyone and have everyone ready to plug and play in year 1 or 2.
November 30th, 2020 at 6:07 PM ^
I’m no football expert, so I can only speak from what’s in my heart. And that is Brandon Brown is a tool.
November 30th, 2020 at 6:08 PM ^
I know Brown used to work here but I find him...annoying online and as someone who writes about this team.
Yes, people are unhappy about the state of the team. Some people will defend Harbaugh and some don't. That's fine; it's natural, honestly. With any luck, the majority of fans will see him replaced with another coach who may very well disappoint them in a couple of years.
November 30th, 2020 at 6:37 PM ^
Brandon Brown is an idiot. He’s a keyboard warrior who has never spent 1 second on any field of play.
November 30th, 2020 at 7:19 PM ^
Saban literally talks about (and focuses almost exclusively on) "process" all the time.
Every comment this year out of Harbaugh (including the part about having fun and enjoying the victory at Rutgers), (and probably a lot of the playcalling and other "questionable" decisions made) confirms Poggi's take on this: it's a young, inexperienced, injured, flawed team and they are trying to keep the players from feeling overwhelmed by all and moving forward.
Granted, many of the problems are of the coaching staff's own making (including the recruiting misses and schemes which require better, more experienced athletes performing at a high level), but I am not sure many other coaching staffs would have gotten much better results out of this squad in 2020.
November 30th, 2020 at 7:39 PM ^
I would like to throw my support behind the people here who have negative things to say about Brandon Brown. He's not good at stuff. He wasn't good when he worked for MGoBlog. He wasn't good at Rivals. And he's not good at Twitter or wherever he is now.
I almost unsubscribed from Rivals because I was sick of him as an "insider." The Wolverine has had the worst insiders over the years, from Chris Balas to Tim Sullivan to Brandon Brown. They hit a home run with E.J. Holland, and hopefully they can keep him around.
November 30th, 2020 at 8:52 PM ^
Biff is just tired of all the buttheads
November 30th, 2020 at 9:51 PM ^
Brandon Brown is such a fucking clown, nonstop, just cant help it. I loathe that guy so much.
November 30th, 2020 at 11:04 PM ^
If I’ve said it once I’ll say it again: Brandon Brown is a moron. Literally, I actually think he’s the single worst Michigan insider of all time. He’s a writing hack and terrible at his job
December 1st, 2020 at 12:35 AM ^
Biff is right and Brandon Brown is, as usual, misguided.
There's a reason why almost all great leaders are process focused. Random chance can show good results (see Hoke's first year). But if you have a good process that bends the odds in your direction, you'll see great outcomes long term (see Saban after he went 7-6 with a home loss to ULM in his first year).
Now, the problem is that Harbaugh's process isn't sufficient. He's tried to remake it at least twice during his tenure (shipping off Drevno and then Pep and the SC and nutrition changes) and it hasn't worked either time. I love the man and I'm so grateful for what he's done for the program but it's fallen short. The process is what should be evaluated. The process is why the results aren't there and BB's dumbass takes aren't relevant