Students or parents of students: Is it worth it to go back in the fall if it's e-learning?
My son is a junior. His school is currently planning to return in the fall but yesterday, I told him to prepare himself for an about face, and e-learning. He said he didn't think a semester, or an entire year, of e-learning was worth the cost of full tuition, and was thinking about taking the year off if that happens. He has the additional dilemma of being a college athlete, but that's a different discussion for another time. I'm wondering if anyone here has had this discussion with their kids, or if you're a student, are you planning on returning and paying full tuition if it's all online?
These are tough decisions to make. My wife and I have talked about how grateful we are that our children have all completed their formal education, so we don't have to go through this. I am a college professor as is my wife. As others have pointed out, there is a lot more to the college experience for most than just the course work, but also some areas of study there really is no good alternative to hands-on interaction. Other areas might not be that big of a difference for online learning.
The other factor, of course, is the individual student. Some thrive in an online environment, are diligent, and keep up with everything, while others not so much. Since the first half of my Spring Semester was in person and the second half online, I did notice that for the most part, students who were engaged and kept up in person were the same ones who did online and the same with the slackers. However, that wasn't true for every student. It would be hard for me to say, though, what was going on with every student. I did have a few who reached out and let me know what was going on in their personal lives (students were worried about finances, their futures, their health or loved ones' health, troubled by having no place to go outside the house,technological issues), but most did not, so I do not know all the factors that were going on.
Do you talk politics with your fellow colleagues in your department? How would you characterize the political diversity of department? Or are the vast majority of them of one political persuasion?
I'm a high school social studies teacher, and I say stay. Your son is a junior in college, not a third-grader. He has proven himself to be self-motivated, so the drawbacks of online learning don't really apply to his situation. It can be irritating to deal with the procedural kinks of NTI in its current state, but that shouldn't be the deciding factor for a student who has already come so far.
My colleagues and I are mostly concerned with the increased difficulty of offering guidance to low-level students. This is not really a concern at the college level. It's the old adage that "school is what you make it." A student who busts ass through NTI is going to get a better education than a student who sleeps through in-person lectures.
Frame this as a chance for your son to learn the skills he needs to become a life-long learner. Suggest that he watch the ten-part Crash Course series on Study Skills. It will empower him to take control of his own education.
It won't happen, but I think Universities should give some discount on tuition, even if modest, for each online semester. By and large it is an inferior product. As others have pointed out, each situation has its own considerations, and some will have more productive, viable alternatives than others. If one could get work which offered useful experience as well as a paycheck, that would be ideal.
Full tuition for Online is bullshit, plain and simple, and is not worth it in my opinion. A year off is fine in my opinion as long as he uses it productively.
I dont think its worth taking a year off but it is going to suck
I’ve taught online, hybrid, and in person courses at the university level, and in person courses, for me, have the most educational value for the students. If the semester was completely online, I’m not sure I’d pay for it.
To me, this is a non-issue. If you can get your degree with online courses, do it, move on, and start your career.
I feel bad for young people that have to deal with this, but unless they're being denied an education, this seems like unnecessary self-pity.
Paying for the piece of paper, so yes, I'd recommend taking the online classes and working toward a degree from the best University in the land.
The problem for me: what do you do w/ a year off in these times?
Travel - not so much.
Work - hard to come by.
Sit around - not a good option.
The alternatives kind of suck, so what else is there to do?
In the end, the value of the degree will be the four years put in. One year online/remote isn't that bad, and will continue progress towards the end goal.
Based on the help wanted signs and all the recruiter emails I keep getting, I dispute the notion that work is hard to find.
Also - read, work out, develop a new skill, hike. Lots of good options.
I am going to be a Sophomore at Michigan this year. Although the label is a “hybrid” of classes, the in person component mostly applies to upperclassmen who are in smaller more specialized classes. However, even my upper level Spanish class with 25 students has switched to remote.
Most of my friends whom I’ve spoken to are indicating they will take classes For full price regardless of classes being online or in person. Personally, from an OOS tuition perspective, I find this hard to justify and absolutely plan on taking a gap semester/year and working. The quality of online learning is just too much worse.
I find it morally reprehensible that Harvard is charging full tuition to students while not providing on campus amenities. Rather than joining the Phoenix, students might as well attend University of Phoenix.
If my kids are of that age and being asked to pay full tuition for a partial educational experience, I advise them to take a year off. Get a local job, read some books including outside of comfort zone, work out, hike, and relax. Go back to school the following year a little bit wealthier, more mature, a lot more relaxed, and perhaps also more well read.
If they’re going to charge me full tuition, fuck no.
Only way I might consider it is if my kid is a rising senior with a job opportunity locked up already. Just send them back for the year, bite the financial bullet, let them finish their degree and move on with their life. But as, say, an incoming freshman?
You’d better be giving me other payment options. You can’t look me in the eye and honestly justify me still paying full tuition while my child still has to sit at home, or in their dorm, and watch their professor/TA from a laptop.
My wife is on our local school board (third largest school district in Illinois) and their "Plan A" is a split schedule: kids in class two days a week, learning from home the other days. This type of plan seems to be a common strategy across many school districts in the U.S. So, I'd expect their will be some in-class instruction to break up online learning at Michigan and other colleges. Also, as commented about earlier, teachers have a chance to prepare for online teaching for this school year which most hadn't prepared for. In our school district, they already had plans in place to use online learning for "snow days", so the tools required were ready and teachers had at least a basic plan for online learning. Personally, I felt sorry for kids losing snow days, because they were magical days when I was a kid.
My son is also a rising junior at U-M, and we had this conversation in April. At first he was dead-set against a full online-only term, at any price. I think he was reacting more to "living at home with my parents and not being able to go anywhere is not college" than to online vs. in-person learning.
We talked about options: if he took time off, we'd want him to be doing *something* with that time, but the something could be pretty flexible. Could be a job, could be volunteer work, either in-person (provided the environment was safe) or remote, but that it wouldn't be playing call of duty all day. He was good with that, and even ended up picking up a job for the summer to give himself some spending money and something to do---and that was his idea, we didn't push him. If anything, we were both a bit hesitant to have him working an in-person job.
I think as we all got used to the idea that this was going to be with us for at least a year and possibly much longer, it didn't seem worth it to put it off. If he were an entering first-year student, and on a completely remote campus, I might re-think that. But even then I think it's reasonable to ask when "normal" (as in, "like the before times") will return, because if that doesn't happen soonish, at some point you have to move on.
Yes. I can't keep the house stocked with beer or steaks while my son is home.
A great many college students that return to campus in the fall, will likely contract the virus. There is no way college students can socially distance themselves enough and Covid could spread like wildfire. They know the stats and see the virus as low risk for their age group. Look at all the videos of the bars when States re-opened them ... no social distancing, no masks, kissing, hugging, singing ... and BANG - a spike in infections and now rampant spread.
I don't see how any college can open for fall semester and bring that ticking time bomb to campus. The recent evidence is just too obvious of the likely outcome.
Exactly. And once that bomb goes off what do the schools do? Close and send tens of thousands of potentially sick kids home all over the country to infect people other regions?
1. The same professors are spending their summers making video lectures, supplemental materials, learning new online tools to help.
2. The same professors may be required to do some synchronous teaching—meaning your student is still getting access to the same teacher.
I would investigate just how they are implementing the online experience, as it may be different teacher to teacher, institution to institution.
Can your student learn without going to class in person? Much of what college is about anyway is what a student is capable of doing outside of class. Students are in a classroom for one class maybe three to four hours a week, based on semesters or quarters.
For many students, I would venture the bigger issue is not whether the learning will be good or not, but whether they can experience the campus atmosphere and all the outside activity. Can your child forgo those things for a year of their life? Can they still live in the college town but just not be on campus?
Most professors I know 1) miss their students and 2) want our students to still learn from us, and are willing to go extra for those students who try.
After listening to WMU's "town hall" last night I am substantially less optimistic about a coherent fall semester.
No senior administration staff participated. They have no plan for preventing an outbreak like is currently happening at Greek Row at the University of Washington (151+ kids infected in 15 houses). They offered no hard metrics for outbreaks and responses, nor a plan for how potentially sick kids would be sent home if they have to close the campus mid-semester. They talked a lot about cleaning surfaces, but offered nothing about airborne/aerosolized protection.
The staff who participated clearly worked hard to plan as they have, and what they offered is just woefully inadequate. That the president and provost and VPs, all of whom are still getting paid at 90 or 95% didn't participate is inexcusable.
My oldest is/would be starting the final year of her masters program, so we're going to try to get her through, but my youngest will not be going back for her sophomore year (elsewhere) or paying full boat for online classes this fall. First because I don't see how it can be made safe, and second because the value isn't there.
Not college, we will have 3 in elementary school and if is distance learning or very restrictive (masks, distancing, no recess or gym) we are preparing to pull the plug and homeschool.
The restrictions may work for certain ages, but elementary school we feel it's unreasonable to expect compliance and will limit enjoyment of learning.
I agree, have two in elementary and one going to be a senior in HS. Our School District for the e-learning was horrible. They did Zooms and show and tell, truth or dare, etc..Granted the teachers didn't have time to prepare, but if you are going to be on a Zoom then teach the dang class.
My daughter is a rising junior. She is heading back to AA. She has an apt with roommates. Not worried about the impact on her social life. Hoping that there will be decent in-class options. She is disciplined so will stay on top of class work. My concern is that she has access to summer internships. That is the way the top companies hire these days. Company recruiting efforts I imagine will be curtailed/halted. That is one of the biggest advantages that Michigan offers.
My son is entering his senior year, and he told me the other day he wishes he could postpone it. But he's on an ROTC scholarship so he doesn't really have a choice. It's not a financial issue since the Army is paying, it's more frustration with online courses and the reduced campus experience.
The Army had to cancel summer camps, so they're coming up with a plan to add training sessions throughout the school year so that they can commission an officer class next year.