St. Thomas (MN) kicked out of NCAA D3 conference for being too good, jumping up to Division 1
One of the wildest stories I’ve ever heard.
Division III power St. Thomas (MN) was voted out of their conference (MIAC) for being too dominant. Enrollment size and resources being cited as factors.
The Summit League, home to schools such as Denver, North Dakota State, Western Illinois etc has extended an invite to St. Thomas to jump up all the way from D3 to D1. St. Thomas has accepted and will be in Division 1 as early as 2021 pending NCAA approval waiver.
I can’t recall a D3 ever jumping directly to D1. Pretty unprecedented to see a conference remove a school too.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
They are a decent sized school, and have a fairly well regarded law school in Minneapolis. I'm not totally surprised that they would want to move to D1 for more notoriety.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:48 AM ^
Approximately 10,000 students and located in St.Paul MN, I would think they could somewhat succeed in most sports other than football in Div I (and as the linked article says, their football program is trying to join either the Pioneer League or Missouri Valley Conference---FCS/div I-AA).
What catches my eye most, though, is that they're trying to make a move to join up with a group of schools (including Michigan Tech, Ferris, Northern Michigan, Lake Superior State and others) whose hockey programs are leaving the WCHA to form their own conference. That might be their toughest task, as they would be recruiting against a slew of other Minnesota schools as they try to upgrade to Div I hockey.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
They are located in the heart of college hockey talent. This would be similar to a Florida college trying to upgrade their football program. It's probably not going to be top 10, but they'll be able to become relevant without a ton of effort.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:31 AM ^
Yawn, been there done that.
- Duncan Robinson
October 21st, 2019 at 10:37 AM ^
Up next, St Thomas (MN) joins the NBA
October 22nd, 2019 at 1:31 AM ^
Logged in just to upvote
October 21st, 2019 at 10:46 AM ^
By coincidence, that's why I got kicked out of kindergarten and went to grade 1. Just too good.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:47 AM ^
October 21st, 2019 at 10:56 AM ^
WD,
UM Fan from Sydney sarcastically commented on your post. Just an FYI.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
Add to Troll Cave comenses in T-minus...?
LOL.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
October 21st, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^
Username...debatably checks out.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:07 PM ^
He has single handedly made me hate Australia.
October 22nd, 2019 at 12:23 AM ^
If you've eaten at an Outback Steakhouse, you are more Australian than UM Fan from Sydney.
October 22nd, 2019 at 7:58 AM ^
October 21st, 2019 at 10:55 AM ^
St Thomas isn't really too good for the conference. They're usually behind rival St. Johns in the conference. Yes, they beat up on the smaller schools, but the resources and enrollment is a really serious driving factor in the decision. It's not like they win the conference year in and year out. They're a great team, but there were some serious concerns about school size.
October 21st, 2019 at 5:52 PM ^
read an article that said they dominate the most sports out of the conference winning the "All-Sports" competition for men and women for 12 years running, based on overall record from the city pages. They go on to say since 08 when the current football head coach took over they have won 118 of 137 games, winning 6 of 9 miac titles,with 31 consecutive conference victories 2014-2018 if thats not domination i dont know what is, this is pretty much on the level of valdosta st's run, and the basket ball team is just as dominate
October 21st, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
Hilarious they were voted out for being too good.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:29 AM ^
Yet Rutger Cable Subscribers can't get the boot for being so bad.
Can the B1G trade for the Minnesota school?
October 21st, 2019 at 11:29 AM ^
As other's have pointed out, this is less about being too good and more about schools wanting to compete against like competition.
If it was simply about competition Mount Union and Wisconsin-Whitewater would have been kicked out of their conferences over a decade ago.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
Edit: nvm
October 21st, 2019 at 11:34 AM ^
Sounds like an anti-rutger action.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:34 AM ^
So sorry, double post.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^
Stupid monkey
October 21st, 2019 at 1:54 PM ^
I'm changing the ending to the script of your movie.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:40 AM ^
Just to reiterate: They didn't get voted out because they were "too good." They got voted out after years of strife in the conference because of their enrollment size and the resources going into their athletic department. These are areas where St. Thomas started to increase over time, so it's not like the other schools just looked up and noticed an existing situation.
St. Thomas has had designs on being a D1, regional school for about 12 years now. And that's perfectly fine. But it's also perfectly fine and reasonable for the teams in their D3 conference to call them out on this stuff.
D3 schools are that classification for a reason. It's simply an unfair and unbalanced situation when one school steps outside of those parameters.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^
Nope - they got kicked out for winning too much. They have dominated most sports (men and women) in their conference for a loooooong time.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
I’m sure if either of these two teams got kicked out. But, know that Johns Hopkins and Hobart both are D-3 programs with their lacrosse teams being D-1. Hobart absolutely dominated D-3 for years before moving up to D-1 years ago. I’m not sure if either teams move was voluntary or not though
October 21st, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
Hopkins alum here. They have had a D1-level team since before it was an NCAA sanctioned sport, so... (The MD-Hopkins rivalry in this sport goes back to pre-1900 and they've played each other well over 100 times at this point.)
October 21st, 2019 at 12:05 PM ^
When the Division system was created by the NCAA in the early '70s, schools were allowed to put one sport in Division I even if they chose to be lower division in everything else.
That's how you have Michigan Tech as DI in hockey, Lock Haven as DI in wrestling, Johns Hopkins as DI in lacrosse, etc. Once the NCAA added women's sports, the exception was allowed for one women's program as well. The exception has been removed for football and basketball--if you are DI in one of those sports, you are DI in every sport.
October 21st, 2019 at 2:02 PM ^
I smoked pot with Johnny Hopkins
October 21st, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
This has interesting implications for hockey. Once the rest of the WCHA abandons the Alaska schools and UAH, St. Thomas will have completed its probationary period and will be ready to become the eighth member of whatever the new conference is going to be called (with Bowling Green, Ferris State, Lake Superior State, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Bemidji State and Minnesota State-Mankato).
October 21st, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
It's amazing that you know that, and yet, I am not surprised that you know that.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
Come on b1g, show rutger the door
October 21st, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
And kick out St. John's who just beat St. Thomas (yes, it's call the Johnies vs. the Tommies) for the 2nd yr in a row.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
I for one would really like to see some of the dominant powers in Div 3 swimming kicked up to Div 2. Swimming is a sport that lends itself to the dominant recruiting program always prevailing. You can look at a heat sheet before the start of the meet, and often tell that one team is so far ahead of the field that they will win even if everyone on their team has a mediocre to poor meet. This is how schools like Kenyon win 20 National Championships in a row. The recruiting pitch is simple: come to Kenyon and we can guarantee you will be part of at least 3 National Championships in the four years you're here. Or, go to a Div 1 school and maybe make the travel squad if you get as fast as projected.
The result is that swimmers who might make a qualification time for Div 1 National Championships will chose to go to Kenyon instead. One Div 3 head coach I know took a look at Kenyon's line-up in the 400 IM. He compared it to the line up for the Div 1 program where he had been an assistant coach, and said it was the same. Kenyon had three guys under 4 minutes, and his old Div 1 program tried to ensure they had three guys under 4 minutes.
The consequence of this is boring 20 year runs of unbroken dominance for the teams that get the recruiting pipeline going, and insanely fast qualification times for what is supposed to be a Div 3 meet. If you get three or four of these Div 1 in disguise teams going at the same time, they could fill all the heats themselves, and precious few other teams will get invited. In 2012 a particular swimmer from a team in the same Conference where I was a volunteer made the U.S. Olympic Trials. I got curious, and compared the automatic qualification time for Div 3 Nationals (the "A cut") in his event with the qualification time for, I repeat, U.S. Olympic Trials. Within a couple hundreths of a second, no difference.
Kenyon, you guys are wonderful, amazing. Great job, congratulations. Go pick on someone your own size.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:16 PM ^
I'm inferring from this that kids go to Kenyon to swim and win nattys because a) they're rich and don't care about getting scholarships and b) they're rich and their parents tell them nattys pad their resume.
Is that accurate?
October 21st, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
Swimming is kind of a rich-kids sport anyway because 1) inner city schools don't really have the resources to operate a pool and 2) as with any sport, it's hard to be really good without being on a club team, and you have to pay to do that because it's not a money-generating sport like basketball.
That said, it's kind of unfair to categorize Kenyon as a rich-kid program full of brats who only went there because their parents told them it would look good on a resume. Kind of insulting to competitors. D-III schools all find ways to give scholarships without actually giving scholarships, so the financial situation isn't a thing either.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:50 PM ^
I shall hold an irrational grudge whenever I damn well feel like it, okay?
October 21st, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
I mean, they are padding their resume walking onto Kenyon's campus.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
New irrational fan take:
"It's year 5 in the Jim Harbaugh era, and we haven't yet been voted out of the Big Ten for being too good and promoted to the NFL. FIRE HARBAUGH"
October 21st, 2019 at 1:31 PM ^
The first Division 1 program that loses to them is going to have an interesting social media experience.