SignGate: How This Should Have Been Handled
I've been thinking a bit about how this actually should have been handled, if I (a) were an opposing coach and (b) really were angry about what was going on (i.e., CS was sponsoring people to go tape games, and I thought that was out of bounds).
I think, in most normal situations, the best thing to do would be to pick up the phone, call Coach Harbaugh, tell him what was going on, and ask him to stop it.
What kind of colleague -- even in this competitive setting -- instead launches an investigation, coordinates it with a smear campaign, all with the hope of getting the NCAA/Big Ten to act rashly and punish Michigan prematurely, even perhaps getting Harbaugh fired?
The more I think about it, the more ridiculous the OSU (assuming they're behind the bulk of it) response is. It's disrespectful, petty, and I think -- in the long run -- will be viewed as cowardly. I mean, does the "coaching fraternity" really want people like this inside of it?
So, what do you think? What should Day have done?
November 4th, 2023 at 7:56 AM ^
I was thinking the exact same thing last night. You at least give a colleague a chance to say ‘I had no idea this was happening. I’ll take care of it’.
What Day did was beyond the pale of anything we have ever seen. The dude’s only intent was to smear Michigan. And all the other piece of shit B1G coaches are eager to jump on board.
Edit: and if all of these other coaches really thought this was such an egregious violation of the rules that gave Michigan a competitive advantage, shouldn't they be pissed at Day for not addressing it sooner and letting Stalions do this for two (or more) years?
November 4th, 2023 at 8:08 AM ^
The problem was Stalion to begin with. It wouldn't have taken a genius to connect the dots with him. I'm all for punishing the school accordingly, but this is all driven by OSU, an investigation firm, and ESPN. They are the ones pushing this story mid season and as I mentioned in a thread I started a few days ago, cancel them before they cancel us... Because they are definitely trying to cancel Michigan.
November 4th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
The other coaches are just whining. When push comes to shove they all know this is irrelevant. Day knows it’s irrelevant, but he’s also fighting for his job.
November 4th, 2023 at 7:58 AM ^
I think Ryan Day would start a thread for what should be a comment.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:02 AM ^
yeah I know, but honestly, compared to some other places, there aren't too many threads here - and it's easy to avoid those that you don't like.
I do take grave offense at being called the Ryan Day of OPs - come on man.
p.s. perhaps I should not have created this thread - I'm just so mad about the whole thing, and how easily it would have resolved among honorable people.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:23 AM ^
Whoa! I would not compare you to Ryan Day! (Just a joke)
I think your mistake is thinking OSU would even consider taking the honorable route. Remember, their current AD (Gene Smith) and former coach (Urban Meyer) covered up domestic violence allegations. And that fan base is completely okay with that in that those two men weren’t fired. (And by they way, that is FAR worse than the sign stealing that ppl are calling for Harbaugh’s head!) The point is, honor is not the route that school or fans are respect. They are a win at all costs culture.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:07 AM ^
Ryan Day would never.
And Jim Harbaugh probably wouldn't either, if it was OSU. That said, clearly Jim wouldn't hire a PI hire either...and we have plenty of proof because he was 0-? against OSU and didn't do any of that stuff.
In the end though, don't fucking cheat. We can blame people for not checking out behavior, but the fact is...we probably, very likely, cheated.
Again, my whole thing is...how much does it impact winning? I don't think stealing signs had anything to do with not tackling Donovan Edwards in obvious run situations. Or with Mike Sainristil running a 4.2 across the endzone to break up a pass.
That's been my issue from Day 1. I'm disgusted and dishearted that Michigan (allegedly) cheated. But I'm not outraged because I don't believe it changed the outcome of games.
But the "everyone else is doing it" and "they should've told us" arguments are weak, IMO. Jim, run your fucking program. Period.
It's just like the Schemy thing. Jim, run your fucking program.
You can't be a head coach and ignorant to everything just because it's plausible deniability. It's not.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:11 AM ^
It's not possible to know what everyone is doing on your team. CMU didn't even know there was a rogue coach Connor on their sidelines... And get off the high horse, because all schools cheat to an extent. Before NIL, all these schools were paying top dollar for athletes.
We just got caught in the stupidest fashion possible and are being lynched midseason for it without proper due course...
November 4th, 2023 at 8:54 AM ^
"Again, my whole thing is...how much does it impact winning? "
I agree with your post. Michigan brought this entirely upon themselves by cheating. Blaming those who are pissed off about it is just a cheap way to justify and/or distract from the main issue - you cheated. "How much does it impact winning" is no excuse. Michigan obviously thought it DOES impact winning or they wouldn't have cheated.
And I don't think much of the excuse that Stalions was a lone wolf. Nobody else on the staff inquired about where he was getting his information? He shared his videos with nobody? Nobody else on the staff tried to glean information from them? Nobody else on the staff knew what he was doing? And poor little Jimmy Harbaugh was absolutely oblivious to the whole thing?
Agree! "Jim, run your fucking program. Period."
November 4th, 2023 at 9:03 AM ^
Most of your comment begs the question that other coaches knew what Stalions was doing for his source material. That has yet to be proven.
November 4th, 2023 at 9:12 AM ^
Logged in to upvote for proper use of "begs the question."
November 4th, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^
Using the word "Michigan" implies that the coaching staff and administration knew about this and were complicit.
You will never convince me that they knew about this because if they had I am convinced they would have shut it down.
Policies and rules can be revised for this situation but we most certainly will not know for a while if the cheating Connor did significantly affected the outcome of games. We don't even know the effectiveness of his operation.
November 4th, 2023 at 9:34 AM ^
This use of Michigan here is the problem that facilitates the media circus going on. Stalions was part of Michigan’s program, so to me Michigan cheated because of this one guy, which is why I’m so pissed at him. But the use of the word like that. Implies a broader conspiracy which has not been proven at all but is assumed a lot. And can be implied easily by espn or PIs or whoever
November 4th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
It was his job to steal signals, which is legitimate and done by every team. The way he went about it is at issue, but ultimately he was doing his job. And by all accounts, he was very obsessive about doing his job. Apparently he was constantly watching broadcasts and videos, and finding any information that he could to try and do his job. And I’m willing to wager that if you spent all day, every day, looking for videos out there of other teams where their signals are visible, you can find them, even without hiring people to produce them. So it is possible that they just thought he was really good at doing what he was supposed to do.
November 4th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
Completely agree.
As everyone here says, every program in the country is stealing signs, then the Michigan coaches should know what information to expect from the person tasked with stealing signs. If all of a sudden Stalions starts showing up with a trove of new intel the likes of which they've never seen before and they don't get suspicious, then that's on coaches for being willfully ignorant. If another staffer, probably a low level analyst, sees the footage and doesn't report it, then that's on the coaches for either not adequately training or enabling a culture that cheating is allowed.
At the end of the day, the head coach is responsible for what happens in the program. He's responsible for the culture and if that culture enables a lone wolf to go over the line, then that's on Harbaugh. If this exact thing happened to OSU, every single person here would be screaming for Ryan Day's head.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:55 AM ^
You can't be a head coach and ignorant to everything just because it's plausible deniability.
Sure you can. Look at OSU and the SEC in this century. (Not saying Michigan doesn't cheat. But I don't think they've been cheating at the level of those schools.) Look at Coach K and Bill Self.
If there's any lesson here, it's a dark one. If you're going to out-cheat OSU [1] in any area, make sure you do it more carefully.
[1] I'd still be comfortable betting that OSU has a CS-esque scouting operation that's organized well and effectively hidden.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:09 AM ^
Brother, this ain’t the 50’s and these guys are friends or buddies. Maybe there is mutual, high-level respect, and a few of them could speak occasionally, but these are men who command armies of gladiators and you want them to talk out their problems? Air their grievances?
it should have been handled by an AD with a spine (ie Dave Brandon and Stretchgate) not by a limp-wristed, slack-jawed, fearful, cowering, blimp like Warde Manual. Someone should have been out in front of this beating the drum of the PR machine to demand evidence, due process and the investigation to play out.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:14 AM ^
This is 100% about getting OSU into the B1G championship and playoff. They have 3 coaches in the room plus MSUs coach so they clearly are controlling these meetings. This is a hit job by the OSU cult.
Sign Harbaugh to a massive contract extension ASAP.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:47 AM ^
They might be the loudest in the room. But I’ve been thinking about this. If it’s just “these coaches,” then why aren’t the other coaches telling them to just stop? I guess it’s too good to try and get some parity back in to the conference, maybe?
November 4th, 2023 at 8:56 AM ^
"... why aren’t the other coaches telling them to just stop?"
It wouldn't make good political sense for them to do so. I don't see any upside with that approach.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:15 AM ^
The behavior reflects the polarization of our culture at this time. Everyone operates in their own echo chamber, and reaching out across tribal boundaries is not an acceptable approach. Day probably sees it as a sign of weakness if he reaches out to Harbaugh, and not showing weakness is an obsession of insecure individuals. As is, I might add, hiring a PI to get an edge on a perceived threat, even if it is a disproportionate response.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:57 AM ^
This is probably what has bothered me the most about all of this. The lack of a tempered approach from those with a national audience is a sign of our times. I still believe that the majority of the world takes a measured approach to things, but those with an audience are always yelling and it’s hard to believe what I want to believe.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:22 AM ^
The purpose of this was to create a smear campaign against Michigan and to ultimately force Harbaugh out. There was no interest in wanting it to stop, because after all, sign stealing is legal and common practice.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:34 AM ^
How this should be handled now: tell the Big Ten and the cowards that inhabit it to eat shit, and if they are interested in derailing Michigan's season over Twitter posts, then Michigan is interested in leaving!
November 4th, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^
The bargaining phase.
November 4th, 2023 at 9:21 AM ^
Michigan, our AD specifically, handled it extremely poorly. We are now at a point in a political hit job that a head needs to be offered up to appease the mob. Michigan's job is to find the right head, which is not Harbaugh's.
Ono should fire Warde today, this morning, pin the apparent failures of our Athletic program on him, start an actual media response to deflect the explosive fire away from Harbaugh, and let this blow over.
This is what leaders in real life politics are forced to do when they bungle the response to a political hit. This was a political hit, pure and simple, and Ono needs to produce a head, ideally Warde's and ideally today. Blur the opponent's message, buy a few days, put out a mountain of leaks about how Warde was too hands off, how a new AD will assist and provide oversight to the football team instead of leaving it hanging, etc etc, and push this freight train of hate for Harbaugh off it's tracks.
Good luck Santa!
November 4th, 2023 at 9:30 AM ^
Day stands to lose millions when he's fired after going 0-3. His true character is coming out in how he chose to respond to that possibility. Believe what he's showing us.
November 4th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Let's just say Michigan has a tremendous fall over the next few seasons, either because of signgate or natural/unnatural attrition of coaches/players, or BOTH. And PSU or whoever else takes a top 2 B1G slot with OSU. Don't think for a second that Ryan Day wouldn't start digging for dirt into that other competitor as well.
What Day has allegedly done to Michigan sets a very dangerous precedent.
November 4th, 2023 at 8:36 PM ^
Yup. That’s how things work in my world T least