Recruiting reset
With Theo Johnson off the board, there are only a few elite prospects that we are in on still.
DGW at CB is probably our best shot left. I’d say he’s 50-50. QB Stroud looks like OSU lean. SDE Fillinger has had a run of Utah crystal balls this week. We are still in on several OTs as well. Top 100 overall Andrew Gentry still has all crystal balls pointed to BYU.
If we could finish with DGW and get another OL, it’s still a very good class, but not elite, as we have become accustomed to. If we don’t get Stroud, it will be interesting to see what we do at qb.
A couple of our current commits have got recent bumps and our overall average is up to .8973 now. We may end up over 90 just by removing a few current commits. QB Johnson will drop off at some point and there was a poster on here who hinted that Patterson and Mazzcuah might not end up in this class. If those 3 were removed our average rating would be 90, and we would be above 90 without Garcia, who is coming for wrestling and may or may not use a football scholarship at some point. That is pretty consistent with what we have had the last 4 classes. Don’t look at the average player ratings for Clemson, OSU, Bama, LSU and Georgia unless you want to be depressed.
December 9th, 2019 at 2:50 PM ^
Not useless, OP, but too much snowflakeness, randomness, and whining for my taste.
Also, who is accustomed to "elite" classes? Ours are more often very good (a notch below).
December 9th, 2019 at 2:54 PM ^
Yeah, but like most of the people around here I'm tired of watching Michigan get their ass beat by OSU. Having a class as good, if not better, than OSU is just the way it's going to have to be if we want to beat them in the next 10 years.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:16 PM ^
I need to take a look at what Auburn's classes have been the last 5 years or so compared to Michigan. Auburn somehow finds a way to beat their hated rival every three years it seems. Can't imagine they have recruiting classes that much better than we have had.
December 9th, 2019 at 8:49 PM ^
24/7 composite shows them as pretty on par with Michigan... from 2015, the two programs are within two spots of each other.. there is one outlier where Michigan is ahead by 6 spots https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
and yes, Auburn has beaten the saban led Tide 4 times in ten years despite recruiting at around the same tier as Michigan
December 9th, 2019 at 2:54 PM ^
Slow down. No whining was intended. My point was to show that this is a pretty typical UM-Harbaugh class that is very close to what we have historically averaged. It’s not a ridiculous SEC/OSU class, but that shouldn’t surprise anyone. There’s a lot to be excited about in this class in my opinion.
Also, you misunderstood what I said. I said very good but not elite, is what we have become accustomed to. No, we aren’t accustomed to “elite” classes.
December 9th, 2019 at 2:51 PM ^
We will never be a top 5 program. I think it’s best to accept it at this point. We are what we are
December 9th, 2019 at 3:43 PM ^
Should we stop paying our head coach as though it is?
December 9th, 2019 at 3:50 PM ^
Would your paycheck go up if Harbaugh gave some money back?
Harbaugh brings in way more more than any other coach would and is paid as such. He leaves Michigan and can get a job at pretty much any NFL team.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:19 PM ^
No, but a third place coach should not get a first place salary. Warde needs to sit down next year and work things out with Jimmy.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:45 PM ^
This take is on par with your avatars “rapping” abilities.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:52 PM ^
I think the bloom is off Harbaugh for the NFL or he would have left already. The NFL wants the next Sean Mcvay/Kyle Shanahan and sorry, but that isn't Harbaugh anymore. Lincoln Riley can pick pretty much NFL team he wants because that is what the NFL wants, "Offensive Geniuses". We have had 3 OC's in 5 years...
To your point about the money Jim brings in, that's a spot on point, but that is also the problem that many around here are concerned with. Its a question of "What kind of Program does Michigan Football want to be" and as fans, we want the University to "man up" and just admit what they are and are trying to accomplish.
Jim is a Top 3 Paid Coach and in almost every single sport, the expectation of having a coach with that kind of compensation is that they are competing every single year for a Championship. They aren't going to win every year, but they will be in the hunt until the end of the season.
Outside of 2016, we aren't close to that kind of team. Why do we play sports.....We play to WIN THE GAME. We aren't winning. As a former athlete at the University of Michigan, that just isn't good enough for me and it shouldn't be good enough for any of you.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:03 PM ^
This post is as well-stated any I've read on here recently regarding the status of the program. Not sure why the down votes.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:28 PM ^
It might have had something to do with the ludicrous assertion at the end.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:28 PM ^
It might have had something to do with the ludicrous assertion at the end.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:25 PM ^
Jesus christ, what is with people's boner for Harbaugh's paycheck. It's a non-factor in every possible way.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:20 PM ^
No, because Warde Manuel feels he’s good for business and helps maintain the brand, and puts butts in the seats. Warde under no circumstances expects a National Championship from Harbaugh.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:35 PM ^
There must be at least one circumstance where Warde expects a National Championship from Harbaugh.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:35 PM ^
Here is the rub though. How long would those butts fill the seats if the hardwares aren't coming? Whether Michigan likes it or not, the path to the championship goes through Columbus. Jim Harbaugh must find a way to beat the buckeyes to keep money flowing into Michigan Athletic Department coffers.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:44 PM ^
Why does it have to be this way?? Notre Dame has been a top 5 team recently with similar academic standards and a shitty coach. Why?
December 9th, 2019 at 3:51 PM ^
Notre Dame has taken advantage of down programs (USC, Stanford, etc.), schedules whomever they want, doesn’t play Ohio every year, and doesn’t have to play in a conference championship game. Put Michigan in that scenario the past 5 years and the narrative looks a whole lot different around these parts.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:40 PM ^
Don't think we can use the "never played in a conference championship" logic since we have never played in the conference championship game either.
They also don't really "schedule who they want" anymore. They are committed to 5 ACC games a year (and have to rotate through the league), they play USC/Stanford/Michigan and Michigan State pretty religiously year in and out. They also traditionally have an additional major game every year (Georgia this year) and in the next few seasons they add Clemson, Ohio State and Florida State.
They pretty much play a full slate of Power 5 teams every year with exception to Navy and maybe 1 MAC type program. Its not all that far off than any other schedule out there.
I'm not a Notre Damn fan by any means, but its pretty disingenuous to say they don't play a tough schedule. It's not their fault that they catch some teams in down years.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:01 PM ^
Have to agree. ND has been lucky that their schedule was "soft" a couple of times, but they schedule good schools and when those schools are up, you can end up with a 4-9 season.
December 9th, 2019 at 8:43 PM ^
Two things:
1. No, you literally couldn't end up with a 4-9 season. 4+9=13.
2. Notre Dame does schedule tough programs, but they don't have to play "up" programs. In any given year, they could play a soft schedule. That's not the case with Michigan. Somebody in the Big Ten is always "up," whether it's OSU, MSU, Wisconsin, PSU, etc.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
If UM didn't have to play OSU, we definitely would have been in a few championship games for damn sure.
December 9th, 2019 at 10:02 PM ^
Based on what?!? We can’t beat quality teams on the road. So if you replace OSUwith a quality team from the west for example there is no guarantee we win. And there were years we don’t win the division even if we do play osu.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:51 PM ^
For one, they don't have another top 5 team in their own division.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:12 PM ^
What division? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
December 9th, 2019 at 4:07 PM ^
ND also went 3-9 three years ago.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:31 PM ^
Never is a very long time. 10 years ago, people probably would have scoffed at the notion of Clemson ever becoming a too 5 program. For years, LSU was very good, but not top 5. The wheel turns. Hell, Alabama stumbled around for years before Saban got there. One thing I am sure of, though: if we give up on becoming a top 5 program, we won’t become a top 5 program.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:09 PM ^
LSU has always had top-five-ish talent, though. Just had a mind-numbingly dumb offense for a long time. Clemson is a good example of a team rising from mediocrity (i.e., top-25 to -15ish, like us) to the elite ranks. But I don't see a replicable strategy there. A big part of Clemson's ascendancy has been the demise of every other team in their conference.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:21 PM ^
The part about Clemson is very true. Also notable that osu pulled away from the rest of the B1G when UM and psu were down and UW and msu never were national recruiters. Much of Harbaugh and Franklins tenures have been spent trying to catch up. If either program does catch up while osu hasn’t fallen back that will be impressive and something we havent seen in a while.
December 9th, 2019 at 2:57 PM ^
https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2020/all-teams/Football
https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/
When measuring the quality of the class instead of considering its size we are currently ranked 14th by Rivals and 18th by 247 with 0 five star athletes committed.
Remember this the day after we play OSU next year. As the good doctor posted, "it's talent - not coaching".
We just dont have enough of it right now.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:03 PM ^
I was curious that ranking of quality vs quantity, 247 gives points for each recruit therefore more recruits gives u higher ranking. Last years osu loss was the back breaker, win that game and would have changed recruiting in Michigan’s favor, I don’t think michigan can recover from that
December 9th, 2019 at 3:03 PM ^
Rivals rankings are garbage. Also, they have Johnson as a zero star recruit and that really hurts our average. He won’t even be a part of the class. 247 is a better indicator and it looks like we are 12th in overall player ranking with a real good shot of finishing in the top 10.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:05 PM ^
Yeah, that's not going to do it. It is recruiting malpractice not to have any defensive tackles in that class. Just in terms of numbers, we don't have nearly enough defensive lineman of any/all kinds on our roster. We will seriously have to flip offensive lineman to play defense.
I don't know.....that's the kind of issue that you would think one would be in the process of trying to actively solve if one was so inclined to solve it.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:28 PM ^
Even with what you just said the worst recruiting and roster construction actually at DB. At least with interior dline where we have Hinton and Mazi in the previous class that are now seperated by a year due to red shirts. We have nothing in the secondary and are getting nothing, that position is going to be a black hole in a year and will be next year if Ambry leaves or literally any injuries happen.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:53 PM ^
There was a poster who mentioned that now the thing to do is to get a SDE like Kris Jenkins and have him put on weight, vs a 310 lb DT coming out of high school like Jeter, and who may or may not pan out. I am pretty sure that Jenkins is the plan at DT.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:10 PM ^
Gun to head, you have one coaching staff to lead your favorite college football team. Who do you pick? Ryan Day or Jim Harbaugh?
December 9th, 2019 at 3:55 PM ^
Sure Ryan Day looks great, but he inherited Urban's recruits and recruiting machine. Harbaugh inherited a 7 year mess and while he had some talent in 2014, there wasn't much in the pipeline behind them. In the scenario you pose, they would be starting at the same point.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:13 PM ^
Here's a better one: If you had the choice, would you swap entire coaching staffs with OSU (with the current rosters and recruiting intact)?
December 9th, 2019 at 4:29 PM ^
I would have to go with Harbaugh. Ryan Day took over a team that was far more talented than any other team they played. It doesn’t mean he’s a better coach. If you would have said Lincoln Riley or Harbaugh, I’m not sure. Riley has continued the success at OU. We haven’t seen that out of day yet.
This may be stupid, but is it possible that Harbaugh is great at building programs, but unable to make them elite? Maybe we need a different coach to take over from here and take the next step. He lifted Stanford up but never won the conference. Turned San Francisco into a conference champ but not a Super Bowl winner. Maybe his thing is to get more out of less, but not great at getting more out of the better athletes. I don’t know if that’s logically possible or not.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:55 PM ^
Nobody in the world was beating him, except his elder brother... so not being a Super Bowl winner doesnt register here.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
You forgot a third one: player retention. All three are important, and Harbaugh seems capable of each of them, just not at the same time. Go back and look at the 2017 class. We signed 8 defensive linemen, 6 of which were 4 or 5 star recruits. Only one (the lowest rated) is now a contributor. That may be the biggest reason this season was a failure.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:35 PM ^
Agreed. I think 2019 might look a lot different with engaged and motivated third year Aubrey Solomon and third year James Hudson at DT.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:58 PM ^
Because Aubrey Solomon and third year James Hudson are lighting it up at DT elsewhere? As you allude to, the issue with Solomon appears to be motivation. So you had to motivate and retain. Not really good examples of retention issues.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:17 PM ^
That's fair. I guess I was trying to say had they retained those guys and gotten them to their supposed potential, that would have made a big difference on this year's team.
December 10th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
Aubrey Solomon at Tennessee put up almost identical stats to our BEST interior D lineman.
Is he great? Nope - not even very good.
Is he better than Ben Mason at DL? Almost infinitely so.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:36 PM ^
It was still bad recruiting, of the 8 guys only one was a true interior guy (I'm not counting Hudson because they immediatley flipped him to offense as a true freshman so they clearly never saw him on the dline). Like obviously it would be great if Luiji hadn't been battling injuries but I don't think it would have changed that much about this season.
Also you are either selling Jeter or Paye a little short so there are two contributing guys.