OT: Would you mind if your child majored in General Studies (BGS) at LSA?

Submitted by chuck bass on February 10th, 2021 at 8:09 PM

Oldest son began at LSA and quit about two years in, so we felt a bit disappointed and burned a bit financially. He has a full-time but crummy entry level gig. Gig pays his rent and bills but there's no room for real advancement without a degree and it also feels like he's stalled maturity-wise. Kids he went to high school with are in careers, moving around the U.S., getting engaged, even buying their own houses, so we wish he'd return to finish college to open up those same milestones. We will pay the tuition and expenses again, but at the same time, we don't want him to waste the opportunity just drifting through the easiest degree in online courses (online at least at first).

General Studies (BGS) will likely be the easiest and quickest to finish, so he could sooner 'check the box' for a bachelor's. I'm aware of a few BGS success stories, but he does not have an aggressive boisterous personality, nor do we any lucrative professional connections to tap, so I'm worried a BGS wouldn't be ideal.

He was a studious math kid in high school, with stats to prove it, so I was hoping he'd consider something practical like Industrial and Operations Engineering (IOE) or Computer Science (LSA), which loosely relate to his current job. Neither are easy, but they're also not the most intense. One of those degrees would change his life and all things considered I'm not convinced a BGS would. Or maybe I'm completely off base and need to let him do whatever he wants (with our money)?

daveheal

February 10th, 2021 at 8:20 PM ^

If he doesn't *like* the practical thing, it's almost certainly not worth doing and won't "change his life." IMO you either decide to pay for your kid's education or not and then leave the choices up to them (within reason, and I think that includes their major). They'll just resent you otherwise

Unfortunately lots of employers still give a shit if you have a degree or honestly I'd just tell him to save everybody the money & time and use his current job to make his way towards a career/job that he actually enjoys. And that may still be the right move.

Mgotri

February 10th, 2021 at 11:06 PM ^

Daveheal: You make some good points. I agree and disagree though. It is up to parents to push their children to the path they want. This includes majors. (says the father of a 6 month old who is only hopes he can get through the next day). I think it is much harder to find an employer that is willing and more importantly able to give someone the training they need to succeed in their field than it is to find a higher education school with credibility (a degree) to provide an expected baseline level of knowledge. The challenge as parents is to figure out what the kids want to do before they know so you can nudge them in the general direction of happiness. 

OP, a different way of approaching this would to be to try to find out what your kid wants to do overall. If the kid says, things like clubbin' in LA and international jetsetting, then you are going to have to look at what paths get you there. On the other side, if they want to spend their time hiking and climbing mountains, then the education needed is much different than what is available at a university, but steady careers are available. Be the adult, sit down and talk about what they want to do and how to get there. It could be holding this current position for 5-10 years while developing a different skill set on the side until they decide what is really important to them. 

I've switch industries 4 times prior to my 40s and am doing better than I ever thought possible.

If it helps, the BGS guy I know personally is a VP at google, and was not an outspoken personality. 

Don't worry about comparing peers. A house may seem like a good measure, but realistically the bar for home ownership is pretty low. 

ypsituckyboy

February 11th, 2021 at 8:26 AM ^

I fail to see what's so bad about saying "I will pay for your college degree if it's something that will help you get gainfully employed." It's your money. As a parent, that's totally up to you to attach strings that you think are reasonable.

At the same time, the kid could say "Respectfully, I want to major in underwater basket weaving, so I guess I'll be paying." And neither party would be in the wrong.

daveheal

February 11th, 2021 at 10:46 AM ^

It's reasonable enough, but also that seems like a recipe for your kid wasting their time doing something they don't like/aren't good at in order to get free money. What majors would you classify as "will help you get gainfully employed"? 

You can get a job at a consulting firm with a degree in history, no? Did the history degree help? Probably not. But the point of an undergrad education is not about "becoming gainfully employed." If those are your values, you might as well just say "I'll pay for you to go to trade school but not a 4-year university." Which is fine, I suppose, nobody *has* to pay for their kid's school. But forcing them into some small subgroup of majors that you view as related to professional work seems short-sighted, especially if the money is not a big hardship.

UP to LA

February 11th, 2021 at 11:39 AM ^

The perverse incentive angle is real, RE: choosing a major you don't actually connect with. I had an undergrad major at Michigan that I didn't like/had no ultimate use for (aerospace) and stuck with it because I had a big chunk of scholarship money contingent on me being in a "technical" major. In hindsight, I would've been much better served from both personal *and* career development standpoints just studying stuff that I enjoyed and felt genuine curiosity about, even if they were less directly vocationally oriented (philosophy, etc). Whatever your thoughts on parental volition, tightly prescribing course of study can be a mistake.

Ex Fourth Reever

February 11th, 2021 at 10:38 AM ^

Our stipulation was that we would pay for the equivalent of in state tuition at the school of their choice if they had a plan.  Some of them changed their plan, but they always had an end game.  I had several classmates at UM that didn't have a plan and were only enrolled either to make their parents happy or because everyone else was going to college.

Back then college was cheap and any degree got you a job.  IMO, it's much too expensive now to just "get a degree" without having a plan how you'll use it (regardless of whom is paying for the education).  I think lots of people can benefit from taking some time to figure out their own path, but....you know....that's just my opinion man.

RGard

February 10th, 2021 at 8:20 PM ^

If I recall correctly, the only real difference between a BA and the BGS is the BGS doesn't have a language requirement.

My BA has served me well and I only ever used the German I learned once when I was in Germany at a NATO school.

Let him study what he wants to study, punch the ticket, the rest will fall in place.

BlueInVA95

February 10th, 2021 at 9:15 PM ^

Yep, my roommate graduated with a BGS. Literally the only difference from a BA was that he did not have to take two years of a foreign language. He tried as hard as he could to get through Spanish, but it never clicked for him. He got his BGS instead and has done just fine.

Lakeyale13

February 10th, 2021 at 9:51 PM ^

Why would you steer someone away from accounting?  It is a relatively small sample size, but of the friends and relatives I have whose kids graduated with a degree in accounting all have landed quality jobs quickly.  Those with a “business” degree all have had a hard time finding quality jobs. 

MMBbones

February 11th, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^

I'm pretty sure there is a bit of sarcasm here from RedRum. I was in engineering, but I took every undergrad class required for a BBA except for the marketing classes--they were never open to those who weren't officially in the B-school. I have found those classes very helpful. I own an LLC now and I am glad for the tax classes and all the accounting / management classes I had. Most of it was just common sense, but it was immeasurably helpful to be guided by knowledgeable instructor.   But, for me, engineering was 10x tougher. 

Thankful for every class I took at UM.

NeverPunt

February 10th, 2021 at 8:25 PM ^

Not completely off base at all OP - being concerned would be a perfectly normal parental response here. My suggestion would be to try work with him about what he might want to do, what lights his fire, and what he might be happy to do day in and day out to make a living. Make it your project together. Get him taking to people who do those jobs to see what it’s like. I did grunt work at a law firm for  summer before committing to law school and it totally convinced me that was not what I wanted. 
 

That may be obvious and maybe you already tried but as proud owner of another relatively useless degree from LSA (history) I can say that (a) nothing about my pre-college education helped me understand what I might want to do with my life and (b) my relatively useless degree didn’t matter once I decided on what I wanted to do and found my calling (sales). People just saw U of M and were willing to give me a chance.

he may not know yet so perhaps it’s worth trying to commit to discovering that together - support him to getting clear about what he wants and the  support him to get there. Make that the project and the problem, not his degree. At the end of the day you have to trust he will get there on his own timeline and you can support him in other ways (moral, etc...) and when he’s ready help him get there you can support him for school if he needs it Love your kids, trust them, and be a partner in their journey. Don’t let fear of the worst case scenario push you into pushing him too much . Just one parents suggestion, I’m sure there will be other differing opinions but hope it helps

tubauberalles

February 10th, 2021 at 8:52 PM ^

This resonates with me and my experiences (both as a UM student and as a now dad of a 19 yr old).  I started in computer science, believing that was the path to stability and gainful employment, but discovered I basically hated programming, halfway through sophomore year.  I struggled a bit after that around the differences between getting a training or an education at UM.  Ultimately, I went the BGS route, which helped me pull together a lot of disparate interests and get the degree.  Not knowing what I "truly wanted" I worked a bit in publishing and then co-founded a small business and later discovered I really enjoyed working in non-profit (fundraising, so essentially sales like you).

I think in a lot of disciplines, simply having a degree from Michigan is all an employer really needs, outside of specialized degrees like engineering, etc.  Most real education-based professions need a graduate degree anyway, so most any undergrad degree can be that stepping stone - I've seen numerous examples of undergrad Russian literature degrees or cultural anthropology go on to MBAs, MDs, PhDs in completely different fields.  I don't think there's any wasted degree at UM, including BGS.

Now, my own son has had zero interest in college at all.  He was self-directed enough to graduate early from high school, but entirely because he wanted to be done with it.  He's now discovered a passion for cars and has just started in auto tech at a local community college.  I'm thrilled and know that if he keeps following his nose, he'll keep learning and I'll be there to prod and support him.  But he's way too stubborn to follow much of my own advice.

Good luck to the OP and his son - it'll get figured out!

BroadneckBlue21

February 11th, 2021 at 1:23 AM ^

Stop calling a degree useless—it is insulting to all professors, who actually teach folks more than just content in their discipline. UM is not a vocational school. A history degree is not a vocational degree at a liberal arts institution, especially a prestigious one. History falls within  social sciences, which fall within the scope of being able to grasp basic concepts of social webs and individual and collective mindsets. Sales sector is overflowing with need for skills in that area. How about credit the university and not pretend you went into UM the same hirable person that graduated.  

NeverPunt

February 11th, 2021 at 9:18 AM ^

Sorry didn’t mean to offend - it’s not useless, it’s non-specifically helpful in obtaining a career outside of a select few professions. Lazy language on my part. I appreciate the University and the problem was with me, not it. I didn’t know what I wanted to do, didn’t know how to figure that out, thought I might want to do one thing g, got a degree that was recommended to be a stepping stone for that, but didn’t end up wanting that. There’s nothing wrong with the degree but it wasn’t useFUL in obtaining a career I wanted, as much as simply having graduated from LSA at U of M was, which I thought would be helpful to OP given his concern on BGS degrees

bluesalt

February 11th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^

I second this sentiment a bit.  I took 7 years to finish, with multiple gaps.  Getting through was a slog, I couldn’t find a major that I wanted, took multiple gaps, etc.

After undergrad (finally finished in 2006) I bounced around boring (and low-paying office jobs) for another half decade, while trying to figure out what I wanted.  Went back for a Masters in a subject which I hadn’t taken a single course in before, and finally found my passion in my early 30s. Started my new career at the bottom rung with a bunch of kids just out of undergrad, but was able to blow past them professionally, because I had a lot of general work experience and an actual passion.  Within 5 years I had caught up to my original (age-based) peer group in terms of experience, responsibility, and salary (6 figures).

So my advice is to help him get through his undergrad at his pace, and let him figure it out from there.  Not everyone moves along at the same pace, but that doesn’t mean he won’t ultimately be successful.

Swayze Howell Sheen

February 10th, 2021 at 8:29 PM ^

my best bet: support him in what he wants to do, once he knows what that is. it may not be what *you* think is best, but will help him gain confidence in himself and lead towards full independence.

good luck!

Brodie

February 11th, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^

First, if this is the only value you see in college, you should've steered them toward a skilled trade or something. The ROI is much better! But it's not about ROI, it's about wanting to press a button that makes your child rich so you can rest easy. There's no such button, there's no guarantee of financial security in the world. 

Second, every office building in America is filled (er, was filled) with liberal arts grads from schools like UM. Literally every single one. Among my better friends from college are a project manager (anthro degree), a sales manager (Spanish degree), a communications manager (creative writing degree), an NGO outreach director (anthro degree), and an account manager (sociology degree). The key to success isn't what they studied, it's that they worked hard and made the most of opportunities given to them and made effective use of the initial prestige the UM name conferred upon them to get into positions with growth opportunities. 

 

mgoblue0970

February 11th, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^

A business analyst I sent an offer letter to yesterday has an undergrad in political science.  Someone in sales has a psych degree.  Another in forensics has a communications degree.

This notion that one works in the field of their degree is fascinating (to see those posts) to me.

WolvinLA2

February 11th, 2021 at 2:32 PM ^

This is exactly right. There are certainly professions (engineering, nursing, accounting) where it's very important to have a degree in that area. Most, however, are not that way.

Is a computer science degree "better" than a General Studies degree? If you're applying for a computer science job, definitely. If you're applying for literally any other job, no it's not. Most professionals I know, even the most successful ones, don't have a degree in the field in which they work.  I sell medical equipment, haven't made less than 6 figures in a dozen years, and I have a degree in sociology, which is no better than General Studies for anyone who isn't looking to become a sociologist.

Brodie

February 11th, 2021 at 4:16 PM ^

I didn't even touch on grad school or retraining. Like I'm in my early 30s and am preparing to go back for a masters in teaching, after failing to find my niche in the workforce over the course of a decade. A friend from high school just got into UM's social work program. The idea that your life ends with the major you pick at age 18 is just a farce, frankly. 

mgoblue0970

February 11th, 2021 at 6:15 PM ^

I didn't even touch on grad school or retraining.

 

Please do... this has been a great discussion.

Perhaps this will help the OP out too with this notion of degree prioritization, but I'm in tech, my BS is in biology, my MS is in computer science, and I have an MBA too.

People react to my resume with "wow, you're all over place"... and that's not in a bad way.

WeimyWoodson

February 10th, 2021 at 8:40 PM ^

Ask what he wants to do.  Trade jobs like plumbing and electricians are making bank now and their earnings are going to be going up from here.  Traditional schools might not be for them but hands-on learning might be something that he enjoys.

East German Judge

February 10th, 2021 at 10:05 PM ^

This is the answer ^^^.  If he is not inclined for a certain major, it will be tough for him to get excited about your suggestions and really like IOE and Computer Science to not only finish enought courses for a major, but then also enjoy his career in those fields. 

While you may want him to have that U of M degree, he needs to be able to find what he likes and try and make a career out of that.  No point wasting his time and your money if he is inclined towards the trades, he can make good money AND one day open up his own trade related business and make some REAL GOOD money!

Hanlon's Razor

February 10th, 2021 at 8:48 PM ^

I view the college and experience for many young adults is that the first two years are providing an opportunity to explore courses that might spark their passions and determine if there is some aptitude in that area of learning, and further education is dedicated to advancing learning in their area of passion and aptitude--- ideally. If your son hasn't quite found his niche yet, he might be better off preparing for his future career through life experience. He can always go back to college later if necessary, and at that point he will have the motivation of pursuing his interests. 

Clarence Beeks

February 10th, 2021 at 9:33 PM ^

I couldn’t agree with this more. I work in recruiting and professional development (so... on the output end of the education pipeline) and will give so much stronger of a look at a candidate who took time and a different path to find themself and didn’t just rush straight through on a degree that their 18 year old self thought they might like the job at the end of (but really has no earthly idea if they will or won’t). I’ll also give so much stronger of a look at the kid that waits tables up to and through college.

g_dubya

February 11th, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^

I think that is correct.  I flunked out of EE at Michigan because I didn't want to do it.  I moved to Hawaii for four years and worked in environmental jobs including plain, old labor and found what I wanted to do.  After then finishing my BS at Kansas at 28 and then getting an MS for free while working at CSU, I finally really got into a career at 38 working at Colorado Parks and Wildlife.  I excelled at school once I had a reason to be there (plus KU was remarkably easy especially compared to UofM). 

Basically I just don't think everyone figures out what they want to do in their 20s and that is OK.  You aren't guaranteed some crappy life because you haven't started a career at 25 and many of my friends who did envy my years of exploration while I was still young.

Ibow

February 10th, 2021 at 8:52 PM ^

I’m not a big M education guy (many in my family are, alas my fandom) but if your kid has any physical abilities at all, I’d consider finding a line worker apprenticeship program. Quite honestly, a lot of younger people don’t want to do the difficult work but speaking from experience, after 37 years at Consumers Energy, it’s a very rewarding and very well paying career.

https://www.consumersenergy.com/company/careers/school-to-work-programs

maizenbluenc

February 10th, 2021 at 8:55 PM ^

Data Science is the hot central campus degree.

BGS: You would of course want to see a path that seems applicable in the real world rather than a path of least resistance.

MgoHillbilly

February 10th, 2021 at 9:02 PM ^

I can't believe I haven't seen a single response questioning why you are paying for anything. He's an adult. Let him figure it out. I worked all kinds of odd jobs for years and even went into the military before I developed a desire to get an education. Once I had motivation, I worked three jobs to pay my way, borrowed money on loans, got grants and scholarships and eventually got my degrees.  

Stop enabling your son and let him find his own way. Be supportive with your advice only.

Good luck.

NittanyFan

February 10th, 2021 at 9:31 PM ^

100% agree with this post.

His son is not currently motivated career-wise.  Which, while disappointing to observe, is not criminal or immoral or even really wrong either. 

However, there is only ONE person in the world who can ultimately change that.  That one person is not the OP.  

I say this as someone who, myself, was not motivated coming out of college and bummed around career-wise for several years until I aligned on a direction for grad school (100% paid for by me at that point) and my career.  I'm fully satisfied right now.

Point being, I've lived it.  In many respects, I WAS the OP's son for my first few years post-undergrad.  Moving forward was ultimately 100% my responsibility.

Good luck to the OP and his son.