OT: SIAP I swear I checked...Could OK State Appeal?

Submitted by s1105615 on

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-state-stunned-by-central-michigan-…

I swear I checked to see if anyone else had posed the question and didn't find anything.  If I missed it, neg away and I'll never create another thread again.

What, if any options would Oklahoma State have to appeal the result of the game against CMU this past weekend?  If the play never should have happened, and the clock read 0:00, why cant Oklahoma State just mark it down as a W?  Why wouldn't the NCAA allow such an egregious error be corrected?

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kevin holt

September 12th, 2016 at 1:38 PM ^

Agreed. Makes me extra mad because apparently we could have done this against MSU last year. Now any team with the lead on 4th down with time expiring can just throw it out of bounds instead of taking a risk, however minimal (e.g., punting, running the ball around in the backfield, etc).

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JamieH

September 12th, 2016 at 5:24 PM ^

Any other penalty on the offense, if accepted, would result in the down being played over.  You wouldn't put time BACK ON the clock.  So if a team ran out the clock while holding or clipping or doing anything else illegal, the clock would still run out.  Sure the other team could accept the penalty but to what end?  The play would just be run again and they would take a knee and the game would be over.


Loss of down penalties are radically different than any other penalty and thus are treated differently.  They don't generate an additional timed down, and rightfully so. 

There is no situation where a team on offense can have a penalty both give the ball to the other team AND give that team an untimed down to extend the game.  That isn't possible.  And that is what the officials did in the game on Saturday.  The only way there should have been an additional play is if the ball was ruled incomplete before the clock ran out. 

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LSAClassOf2000

September 12th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^

It doesn't seem like it is quite the same though, and there isn't any real facility in the rulebook which gives OKlahoma State an out here, or at least that's my own understanding. 

If I remember correctly, if the referee declares the game over, the score is final, and no rule decision may be changed after the expiration of either the second or fourth quarter (or the next snap or kick, if you're still playing). 

Granted, the General Provisions section is kind of vague on some points, but that's what I recall from the book (which I do not have in front of me sadly).

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drzoidburg

September 12th, 2016 at 5:02 PM ^

I am torn about this, because in a typical game officials make all kinds of egregious errors. Maybe somewhere in the 60 mins they granted Oklahoma St an extra down or series of downs on a bullshit penalty. Now Central gets an extra play...and you only want to correct THAT injustice I felt the same way as you after clockgate in 2001, but over time i've come to consider the above and this other consideration: Play better than the other team and then it won't come down to one terrible call. This should've been especially easy against a MAC team at home and OK St is out of excuses from my view

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Roland Deschain

September 12th, 2016 at 12:20 PM ^

I still don't entirely know what the 4th down controversy was from the beginning? It seemed pretty clear and simple and - even watching the game live - I thought it was over. What justification did the refs provide to give CMU another crack at it?



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Blue and Joe

September 12th, 2016 at 12:21 PM ^

Something needs to be changed. Places were reporting that the rule was not followed only 5 minutes after the game was called. The teams were still in the locker room and people knew it was the wrong call. But there's nothing that can be done. Silly.

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thomar2k1

September 12th, 2016 at 12:33 PM ^

I agree 100% with this. From a "fairness" perspective, the outcome was right. What immediately came to mind for me was the Wisconsin/PSU game where Bielma repeatedly committed penalties on a kickoff at the end of the game to run clock because PSU couldn't decline the penalty and put the ball in the hands of the offense.

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bluesalt

September 12th, 2016 at 12:40 PM ^

The refs got the spirit of the rule correct. The team committing the loss of down penalty isn't supposed to be advantaged by the penalty. Since it was fourth-down and the ball would have been Central Michigan's on downs, OSU was gaining the advantage. They committed the penalty because they were trying to run extra time off the clock since a kneel-down wouldn't have killed the clock enough. The rule needs to be changed to how the refs called it. The point of the loss of down penalty is to not give a team who commits the penalty on offense a second-chance as a result of their rule-breaking, should the penalty be committed on downs 1-3. It's not supposed to guarantee victory to the team committing the infraction.

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The Maizer

September 12th, 2016 at 3:21 PM ^

I agree the rule should be changed, but disagree with people saying that it's okay that OSU deserved to lose because the rule is bad. They did what they needed to win a game according to the rules. Obviously they didn't do it on purpose or they would have refuted the ruling at the time, but still. If the rule is changed, teams will just throw the ball out of bounds backwards or roll out of the pocket first.

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TheRonimal

September 12th, 2016 at 12:27 PM ^

I almost feel bad for them but I don't based on the way they allowed cmu to get that TD. You just can't let that happen. I will say that in a situation like this were the game was wrongly extended, they should be able to go back and give ok state the win. It's a little different if the ref just made a bad call.



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uncle leo

September 12th, 2016 at 12:32 PM ^

Either. You get two laughably horrible calls against CMU that pushed them to a TD (3rd and 18 PI, picking up a holding). You have the ball with 2 minutes left, and had a 4th down with 4 seconds. Honestly, all they needed to do was have the guy take the snap, run backwards for about 2 seconds and fall over.

They did something they thought would work, it didn't. And NO ONE knew the rule. EVERYONE figured it was the whole "can't end the game on an untimed down" deal. After CMU ran the play, you can't go back and say "nope, game's over, our bad."

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Richard75

September 12th, 2016 at 7:40 PM ^

Also, how in the world OK State let MAC officials do that game, I'll never understand. For a guarantee game, you should be able to negotiate your own refs into the contract—U-M had Big Ten refs against UCF, for instance.

Now Gundy is saying they won't let non-Power 5 refs do their games anymore. Unfortunately the horse has left the barn



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carolina blue

September 12th, 2016 at 12:39 PM ^

The rule is not moronic. They aren't being "rewarded" for committing a penalty. The penalty resulted in a Turnover! It just so happens that the turnover doesn't hurt them - or at least it shouldn't have if the rule had been properly applied.



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HAIL-YEA

September 12th, 2016 at 1:29 PM ^

were not rewarded with a turnover, that was happeneing with  or without the penalty. It would be rewarding them to let them run the rest of the clock by committing a penalty, and a blatant one at tht. There were no recivers that even ran any routes on the play, it was just a cheap attempt to end the game unfairly. That game ended the way it should have.

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Indiana Blue

September 12th, 2016 at 12:47 PM ^

is that the offense can run an illegal play to end the game without any penalty.  The rule is in regard to Intentional Grounding - however allowing Intentional Grounding as the last play of the game without consequences violates the spirit of the rule itself.

Of course this all depends on what the definition of IS, is /s

Go Blue !

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charblue.

September 12th, 2016 at 12:49 PM ^

like any error of judgment by either team, are part of the game. Except for outright cheating or player ineligibility the outcome of any game stands as called regardless of confirmation of a mistake in rules interpretation that impacted the final score.

For example, the kick ball on the pass in the endzone in the last-second win for Nebraska over Missouri that continued the Huskers unbeaten season and eventually led to a split decision in awarding national championships to Michigan and Nebraska in 1997 was never even considered after that contest even though most agreed the play was illegal.

A rules interpretation mistake is different than a blown judgment call. And perhaps there ought to be a way to contact and seek a national rules committee interpretation of a call like that before the game ends and both teams leave the field of play. But in this case, both the officiating crew and the booth review officials have been suspended for two weeks for giving Central Michigan an untimed down at the end of that game.

Curiously, in the Michigan-Hawaii game a week earlier, a grounding penalty assessed against Hawaii with seconds remaining in the first half, a call not made on the field but confirmed by booth consultation, led to a 10-second runoff that ended the half. Harbaugh was clearly aware of the rule, because before it was officially announced, he started to run off the field.

It's basically up to the teams and their staff to know the rules of the game and challenge any call that is improperly enforced. Everyone is to blame for the mistake in Oklahoma City.

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