OT - Need advice very badly
I could really use some info and advice. My 12 year old daughter came home from school today and told me an 8th grade boy came up and grabbed her chest and said "this is mine." Her friends stepped in and pushed him away. They told their teacher and gave a description of the boy. The teacher told my daughter that what he did was sexual assault and the principal came to get her out of class to make sure she was okay and that they were reviewing the school video to identify him. I am absolutely fuming that the school called neither her mother or I. By the time we found out about the incident no one answered the phone at the school. I'm not getting a good feeling about any of this and I am probably to angry to think straight so here are my questions.
1) Isn't the school legally liable to inform her parents as soon as they become aware of the situation?
2) If the school drags their feet should we call the cops?
February 8th, 2021 at 9:14 PM ^
Hey asshole, this is a serious situation and you're making jokes, fuck off!
ED: I see you edited the gifs out of your comment, good move.
February 8th, 2021 at 9:41 PM ^
Eat a dick!
February 9th, 2021 at 9:23 AM ^
Since I can't add anything to the OP I'll post an update here. I spoke to the school this morning in person. I sat down with the principal and assistant principal. They started off by saying that they identified the boy and they had already talked to him. The boy had told them it was just a joke and he only put his arm around her and said "be mine." They were going to take him at his word and leave it at that. I was very calm and pointed out that was not what happened and there were multiple kids who witnessed him grabbing my daughters chest and saying "this belongs to me." I also pointed out the fact that her 6th hour teacher witnessed part of it and felt the need to take a few minutes at the beginning of class to talk about sexual assault. The looks on their faces were like they got caught trying to sweep it under the rug. It wasn't until the end that they admitted it was sexual assault and would have to notify the police. On the one hand I feel a small relief that they are handling it but on the other I am still furious as it seemed they were just happy to chalk it up to horseplay and let it die.
February 9th, 2021 at 9:58 AM ^
That's fucked. It seems they are not handling this correctly. I would not wait for them to contact the police, as the school officials have already failed you at least twice now (not informing you, not taking this seriously). Contact the police yourself.
Do they have a plan moving forward for keeping this boy away from your daughter, punishing him, and getting him help so he realizes this is very wrong? His parents also need to be brought into the school and be informed of the situation. Hopefully, they aren't assholes themselves and can teach him better.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 10:04 AM ^
Props to you taking the high road man. I don’t think I could handle the principal and assistant essentially covering up when multiple witnesses, and a teacher included, refuted their claims. Add that on top of them not directly contacting you or your wife, I would kill someone. I also do not stand for this sexual harassment so giving this kid a freebie is BS. The kid needs to learn that it’s completely unacceptable and not just lie his way out of things. I would be fuming if I was you.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:15 AM ^
I agree, when they told me that I probably would have gone off, which would not have helped at all. Great job keeping your cool, great job getting sticking up for your daughter, even if she never learns what you did to help her here you know you did your job as a dad.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:28 AM ^
For me, it would be time to escalate. The leadership at the school failed and were duplicitous about it. Their boss needs to know. I'd request a meeting with the superintendent or equivalent.
February 9th, 2021 at 11:13 AM ^
Yeah, I would go to the PD now and then send an email to the superintendent summarizing the situation and the building leadership's response, and then end your email with, oh, by the way, you may contact Sgt So-and-so for a copy of the police report.
Then you'll see an appropriate response.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:58 AM ^
I'm very sorry this happened to your daughter. Your instinct to intervene forcefully to make sure it doesn't blithely "go away" is a good one. There have been notable examples where a school exerts more authority than most parents would feel comfortable conceding when it comes to events like this. And just like almost all organizations/bureaucracies the most common instinct is to protect the interests of the institution over the individual. I hope you are ultimately able to get the best outcome from a really awful event/situation.
February 9th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
There are three words that might also get them moving faster:
Title
Nine
Lawsuit
This is a clear violation of Title IX [edit: assuming a public school that receives federal funding of any kind; if it's a private school that receives no such funding that would change things] and it sounds like there are enough witnesses that you could make life very difficult for the administration in court if you needed to.
(Disclaimer: I only know Title IX regulations from the mandated reporter side [staff member in higher education] so I would defer to MGoLawyers/Joes From Legal here about the litigation side, but if they drag their feet even the threat of a Title IX suit would probably get things moving in your direction.)
February 9th, 2021 at 11:33 AM ^
Having read this update, I think you should hire a lawyer. If they interacted with the boy and appeared to let him get away with it, the chances the kid and/or his parents blame you or your daughter for it when they came back and say they have to punish him are not 0.
February 9th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
Please do not hire and spend money on a lawyer at this point, OP. This is terrible advice.
February 9th, 2021 at 11:47 AM ^
Depends on what the school does next. They've already lied to the OP and they had not yet reported the alleged crime to the police. That needs to be addressed to the OP's satisfaction. If it isn't, litigation or the threat of litigation is completely appropriate.
Organizations will protect their own and hide bad behavior. The OP can't force the school officials to do the right thing. If they don't, then litigation is one of the few options the OP has.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:14 PM ^
Thus, why I said "at this point" (less than 24 hours after the incident) spending money on and hiring lawyers is bad advice. It is a possible option down the line. We still don't know what will happen, so rushing to hire lawyers right now is premature.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 12:43 PM ^
"at this point" they've already lied to the OP about the incident.
Seeking legal advice won't cost them a dime. There are plenty of lawyers out there who will take a look without billable hours.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:55 PM ^
Thus, why I said to not hire a lawyer at this point.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 12:49 PM ^
The guy with a picture of a Spartan giving the finger and fucking a dog is giving bad advice. Talk to a lawyer.
February 9th, 2021 at 1:00 PM ^
/rolls eyes
Yea, that's exactly what the daughter needs in this situation right now. The situation is not resolved and actions are still being taken. Less than 24 hours after an incident is not the time to be hiring lawyers.
It is a possible option down the road if things are not settled satisfactorily, I do agree with that.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 5:21 PM ^
Roll them harder and you'll be able to see out of your asshole.
I'm pretty sure I was telling the adult father to talk to a lawyer, not to have his daughter do it. Eventually she may have to speak with the attorney, but he can certainly contact a lawyer and discuss the matter without her being a part of that.
February 9th, 2021 at 1:28 PM ^
I used to work as a 'behavior specialist' in schools with large at-risk populations. School administrators are adept at trying to navigate the path of least resistance. I was in a meeting once where I heard one of the best lines ever. The parents' were getting a run-around from the school when the mother leaned forward and said, "there's someone missing from this meeting". There was a moment of silence as the Principal and VP looked around, then looked at each other clearly at a loss as to who was missing. Then the mother stood up, gathered up her stuff, and coldly said, "it's my lawyer, my lawyer is missing from this meeting". And out she walked.
They literally scurried after her in a panic and the entire power dynamic shifted from that point forward. Bottom line, keep your cool but let them know that this isn't going away quietly. Lose your cool and they have the upper hand - they make a living dealing with tantrums. Their greatest fear is that things will make it to their superiors or the school board. Make it your business to make sure that this issue gets raised to the right level for resolution.
February 8th, 2021 at 8:29 PM ^
I would be seeking an attorney!
February 9th, 2021 at 9:00 AM ^
To do what, exactly? Sue the family of the 12-year-old boy?
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 9:11 AM ^
No, If you decide to sue you sue the school for not providing a safe environment and possibly for not notifying the parents...don't know if that part is litigation worthy.
February 9th, 2021 at 9:48 AM ^
You're suggesting he sue the school for not preventing this (as if this was even preventable)? Or sue the school because they didn't notify the parents right away?
This is terrible advice, OP. DO NOT not hire a fucking lawyer for this and possibly put your daughter through more bullshit that she doesn't want or need at this stage. This is a possible option down the road if things turn sour, but jumping right into hiring and paying for lawyers at this point is an extremely stupid idea.
Meet with the principal, gather facts, develop a plan, make sure there is an investigation and consequences for the boy, make sure the school keeps him away from your daughter at all times, and above all else listen to and care for your daughter and make sure she's alright.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 10:21 AM ^
No, I answered your quesiton in which you asked about suing the parents of the boy. The school is the target for litigation in these cases. You can moan about litigation all you want, I don't care.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:22 AM ^
the school needs to do their job to protect their students, and apparently they are not taking it seriously. you don’t know if the boy had done the same before or how the school handled similar incidences in the past. in my opinion, the school should be investigated by an independent investigator hired by the school district. if i lived in the same school district as hillybillyblue i will demand it as a parent.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^
in my opinion, the school should be invested by an independent investigator hired by the school district
Uhhh, ok.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 12:50 PM ^
FFS what makes you think the school is going to do any of that?!? They obviously are trying to sweep it away and aren't taking it seriously.
At the bare minimum the school should have called the parents yesterday and said "there was an incident involving your daughter and we don't have all the facts yet, but will be investigating. Here are some support options for her."
Their response and attitude was horrendous. They did no investigation if the teacher and classmates who saw it happen weren't consulted. That is the reason you involve a lawyer, to get a proper response for her, and for any other future victims.
THIS SHIT HAS TO STOP. We can no longer accept "boys will be boys" or other excuses. The cycle will continue until we force change. Do Better!
February 9th, 2021 at 1:05 PM ^
They did no investigation if the teacher and classmates who saw it happen weren't consulted.
The teacher and classmates were consulted.
THIS SHIT HAS TO STOP. We can no longer accept "boys will be boys" or other excuses. The cycle will continue until we force change. Do Better!
What the actual fuck? Where in my comment did you get any of this strawman nonsense? I said it's premature to hire a lawyer, and you take that as me being some sort of rape apologist?
Good lord, dude. Settle down.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 5:18 PM ^
You need to go back and read the OP update(s):
"They were going to take him at his word and leave it at that."
The school didn't investigate until he told them to get their shit together. They didn't ask the others who witnessed what happened. All they did was try to cya and duck any responsibility.
Some of the shitposts on this thread are disgusting and embarrassing to me as a Michigan fan/alumni. As a Dad of girls I will not settle down, and I will not stop demanding change.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:09 AM ^
I'm not in any way condoning what this boy did, but a lot of people in this thread are acting like he killed someone. How many people remember boys in school snapping or unclasping girls' bras? The boy should be punished, he should be physically separated from the girl, and the school should institute some sort of awareness about sexual harassment into their curriculum. If I was the girls' parents, I'd be satisfied with those measures while doing whatever I could to make sure that my daughter's emotional and mental needs were being met. Once again, I have 2 young daughters so I'm basing my response on how I would feel if something like this happened to them.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:22 AM ^
I agree. The boy was very wrong and did something stupid, but does not need to be crucified over this. He needs to know what he did was unacceptable and very wrong and should be separated from the girl at all times.
How many people remember boys in school snapping or unclasping girls' bras?
20ish years ago, bra-snapping was SUPER common in middle school and no one really cared. What happened in this situation is absolutely worse than a bra-snap, but yea I agree, times have definitely changed.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
I'm not saying that bra snapping is the same as what this kid did. I am saying that boys do stupid things without thinking all the time and I think throwing the book at a 12-13 year old boy over this is overkill. He should be punished and be educated about why what he did is not acceptable under any circumstances.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:18 PM ^
When I said call the police, I didn't mean throw the book at him (I can't comment what others meant). We need to change the way this is seen and handled in society, and the 'boys do stupid things' excuse has to stop or the behavior won't stop. I have a boy and a girl, and have worried about both from each side. The police showing up sends a signal that this is potentially criminal and not just 'bad behavior.' Obviously, we don't know the kid or his circumstances, and that has to be taken into account, but if the behavior is potentially criminal, the police have to be called.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:29 PM ^
I have a son and 2 girls. I can't tell you how many times I've told all of them not to do something and then they go ahead and do it anyway. Sometimes, kids do things impulsively and there's nothing parents or teachers can do about it other than scolding them and reminding them that what they did is not acceptable. I don't agree with getting the police involved unless this becomes a recurring problem with this particular kid. I also believe in second chances and despise the litigious society that we have become. This should be handled by the school and the parents of those involved. The boy should be suspended and be required to take some sort of class on sexual assault. That's how I would handle it.
February 9th, 2021 at 1:18 PM ^
My point isn't that this kid should be arrested or that he or his parents need to be sued, just that sexual assault rises above bad behavior. it should be treated differently. If a cop talked to him, vs the principal, I think it would carry more weight.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:48 AM ^
Finally a sensible response. Again not dismissing bad behavior but this is hardly a life altering event. Girls deal with this kind of thing far too often, but kids will always be kids and make stupid choices occasionally.
February 9th, 2021 at 10:54 AM ^
Being sexually assaulted is not a life altering event? So all the studies that show being a victim of sexual assault are wrong?? You didn't having a crying little girl explain to you how she was grabbed and how she's afraid to go to school. How she's afraid she did something wrong and that she is going to get into trouble over it. People like you are the reason this shit happens. Chalking it up to kids will be kids and make stupid choices. Fuck off with that shit.
February 9th, 2021 at 11:06 AM ^
I'm sorry that this happened to your daughter, but young boys make poor decisions all the time, and people, in general, aren't perfect. What exactly do you want to happen to the boy? What do you want to happen to the school? Do you think schools are capable of controlling the actions of students in all instances? I'm trying to be sensible about this situation. I think calling the police, hiring a lawyer, and filing lawsuits is the wrong approach. The boy should be punished, he should be physically separated from your daughter, and the school should use this as a teaching opportunity for their students. I have 6 and 8 year old daughters so that gives me some perspective on the issue.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:31 PM ^
I would my judgement until more fact comes out. you know nothing about the boy, and if it was the first time or there were other victims, and if he has other problems, etc. Brushing it off is not going to help anyone in this situation.
From the description of the OP, I feel strongly that the school is failing to protect its students and the situation should be escalated to the school district, not just for OP's daughter, but for every current and future students in her school. The school district will listen if they see an attorney.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
You know nothing about the boy either. If this has happened in the past, that would obviously change the manner in which I would approach the situation. I'm assuming it isn't a recurring problem, however, because I wasn't given any information indicating it was.
February 9th, 2021 at 1:30 PM ^
What I would like of the school is for them to actually do their job and protect the students. Schools fall under mandatory reporting. They were legally obligated to call the police yesterday but did not contact the police until I pushed. Why should I have to push for them to do what they are legally obligated to do? How many other instances have they swept under the rug where the parents did not push? I also found out today that when the principal came to check on my daughter yesterday she did not talk to her alone, she entered the classroom and stood in front of everyone and asked who was grabbed and then asked her how she was doing. My daughter is already very timid and does not like attention. This is the worst thing the principal could have done and anyone with any knowledge or training in sexual assault cases knows that is absolutely the last thing you should do. You never, I repeat never draw attention to the victim. So at this point I want the principal to lose her job. She has failed my daughter every step of the way and is not fit to be in her position.
February 9th, 2021 at 4:07 PM ^
i am totally on your side that the school is failing its students, and you should escalate it to the school district and if you wish bring an attorney to the table so that they will listen, and be prepared that the school district decides to take side with the school.
February 9th, 2021 at 11:08 AM ^
That guy is an idiot, OP. People like that are reason #3472 why you should never turn to MGoBlog for serious advice like this situation.
February 9th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
The guy you're replying to did have a sensible response.
Your "boys will be boys" attitude is very much not a sensible response, however. That shit needs to end. Sexual assault doesn't belong in the "kids will be kids" spectrum.
8.5.7February 9th, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
How many people remember boys in school snapping or unclasping girls' bras?
uhhhh I definitely do not recall this being a thing, let alone something that would go unnoticed
February 9th, 2021 at 11:20 AM ^
It happened in my school all the time and I went to a Catholic school.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:38 PM ^
and I went to a Catholic school.
Given the first half of your sentence, this is not the surprising fact that you think it is.
February 9th, 2021 at 12:43 PM ^
I was waiting for this tired and predictable response. Sigh.