OT - NBA Player Jason Collins - "I'm a 34-year-old NBA center. I'm black. And I'm gay." [Locked]
Here's the SI article where NBA Center Jason Collins comes out.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jason-collins-gay-nba-player/#ixzz2Rrq92saZ
EDIT: Mods feel free to delete if this is too political. If you've come to discuss the merits of gay rights and such, please just stop here. There are plenty of other message boards where that can be done.
Mod edit: The relevant sports related stuff seemed to get hashed out earlier, but the latest comments are starting to sound more political, so I'm shutting it down before it gets too far out of hand. After 200+ comments there probably isn't much more to say anyway, at least not enough to make any potential headaches worthwhile. JGB.
I actually think the NFL would be worse, if for no other reason than the fact that there are so many more players on a team. When you play ball with 12-15 guys for 82 games, you build a family feeling that makes this easier. But if you are a backup DB on the Jets or Browns, for example, how strongly do you feel connected to everyone else on the squad?
I think the NFL would be far more hostile. To venture a huge stereotype, NFL players are disproportionately rural and southern and come from a culture where the denunciation of homosexuality, and the sense of a homosexual threat, is an important part of the religious culture of many churches. There are also many more people in an NFL locker room, meaning that not everyone has personal relationships, something much more difficult to maintain in the smaller locker rooms of the NBA.
To venture another huge stereogype, openly gay people have been part of urban black culture for a long time to a far greater extent than in southern culture, white and black alike. Perhaps not "accepted members" but present and acknowledged nonetheless. George Chauncey's awesome book, Gay New York, has stories of drag balls in Harlem that would attract thousands of spectators, gay and stratight alike in the 1920s and 1930s.
April 29th, 2013 at 11:56 AM ^
This is good for him and all but I hope the media doesn't make him out to be a hero.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:04 PM ^
Why don't you want the media to make him out to be a hero?
There have been probably tens of thousands of gay professional athletes that have come before him...and he's the first to publicly acknowledge his sexuality while still playing the game.
You could debate whether he is a "hero," but we should all applaud his courage and willingness to risk his career.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:12 PM ^
Your last point is what I was getting at. I think there is a difference between applauding someone's courage and labeling them a hero. I'm sure it was a tough thing to do for him, and give him a lot of credit for it. But calling him a hero is a stretch, and to me it diminishes the purpose of the term when people throw it around so often.
May I ask what risk that is?
The whole discussion is about how courageous he is. Anyone who says otherwise is slammed. People who say "I don't want to hear about it" are negged out of the discussion. David Stern, Kobe Bryant, Ernie Grunfeld (the Wizards' GM), Bill Clinton, and no doubt loads of other people are giving him a pat on the back. If Kobe is supporting him, surely most of the rest of the NBA will follow suit.
Jackie Robinson heard slurs in every ballpark he played in, from most of the fans, opponents, many teammates, and even umpires. Death threats everywhere and separate facilities at home and on the road. And he didn't have to make any announcements because he couldn't possibly have hid what made him different. To me, that's courage and a willingness to take a risk. Jason Collins, while being a something of a trailblazer in his own right, isn't taking any chances any more, not with this enormous clamor of supporting voices that can shout down opposition. Today it's the slurs that are marginalized, not the support.
It's courageous because he didn't have to come out. You said he isn't taking chances because he's supported. He also could have just said nothing and therefore didn't need the support. The slurs wouldn't exist toward him if he didn't come out.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:12 PM ^
Was Jackie Robinson a "hero"? Robinson's pioneering was certainly more difficult than Collins's, but it's a similar type of issue.
Check out your local cineplex if you want to see how people view Robinson's career. And for the record, I agree that on the needlessly reductive "hero" scorecard, Robinson > Collins
April 29th, 2013 at 11:57 AM ^
This is good for him and all but I hope the media doesn't make him out to be a hero.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:00 PM ^
Because being the first active professional athlete to open himself up to immense criticism on the grounds of his self-identified sexual orientation isn't heroic or at the very least praise-worthy?
C'mon man.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:04 PM ^
I think we have very different standards of heroism, that's all. Once again, it's perfectly okay with me that he came out. I disagree with you that it's heroic to come out as gay, though.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:37 PM ^
first active pro athlete in this country, we should say... I know there have been out athletes in Europe since at least the late 1980's
April 29th, 2013 at 11:58 AM ^
IBTL
April 29th, 2013 at 12:03 PM ^
for having the courage to do this. Even though he's not a star player, he's still a pro, and the first active pro player to come out while still playing, so this is a pretty big deal. And since he's a free agent, this could cost him a shot at a future contract, so this was a risk for him. Good on him.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:06 PM ^
I agree with your sentiment, but no, no, no! Please don't start the risking a future contract thing.....if he doesn't get a contract, it's likely because he's 34 and averaged less than 2 points and 2 rebounds a game last year.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
There's no way to tell, really. Even when he was younger, he was never much of a scorer or rebounder, but was very good as an interior defender (I seem to recall reading an article somewhere that listed him alongside Shane Battier as guys whose contributions don't show up in the box score, but are detectable by some advanced stats). That skill set isn't one that is significantly diminished by age, so he could have some value.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:28 PM ^
Why not talk about his risk? I understand he's 34 and an aged big-man, but he has still taken on at least a little risk here. It's worth noting.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:39 PM ^
that's all I was trying to point out, was that it made his brave decision even braver because of the possible risks with where he is in his career.
If you haven't read the article in the OP's link, I highly encourage everyone to do so. It's a great read, written by Collins himself. Very well said.
Again kudos to Collins for his bravery on this on being the first athlete in a US pro mens league to come out, that was the main thing I wanted to convey.
Then I have to come at you from the other end of the cynicism spectrum and suggest that maybe this is increasing his chances of staying in the NBA.
34-year-old career backups aren't exactly a hot commodity, and now he's got a name and publicity that some team owners are going to want to attach themselves to.
Let me clarify here that I am NOT suggesting that this was a factor in his decision to come out, just that if we're considering the implications on his playing career, we should consider them from both sides.
This definitely does not increase his chance of staying in the NBA. I don't know if it makes it worse, but there's no way that having a gay benchwarmer sells more tickets or gets more viewers than a heterosexual one. The locker room effect is either neutral or bad.
I think it's dangerous to talk about the risk because the risk, if there is any, is non-quantifiable. If he isn't offered a contract, how many people will jump to the conclusion that he was blacklisted due to his sexual orientation when it very well could be that his career has naturally run its course? If those discussions are had if/when Collins doesn't get an offer, we'll all suffer since they will be entirely speculative.
If a young and productive player who clearly was going to be in the league for many more years were to come out tomorrow we could have those conversations, but in this case, there just isn't enough to go on IMO.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:54 PM ^
April 29th, 2013 at 12:12 PM ^
Obviously a big deal. But I, and I'm sure many of you, just hope for the days when he could just show up the game with his boyfriend/husband, and no one would even care.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:12 PM ^
April 29th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
"I'm a 38-year-old attorney. I'm white. And I'm straight."
Someday I hope that Collins's statement is as shocking and headline-worthy as mine.
Until then, I hope his courage to be true to himself is celebrated throughout the NBA, and sports, and not frowned upon or derided.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:56 PM ^
Glad to see someone has the courage to publicly admit he's a lawyer. You are an inspiration to the rest of us who remain in the shadows.
Just outted yourself.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
I'm here for the gay posbang. Very happy about this.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
... just finished reading the article. It's a great piece. Highly recommended and hopefully the mods keep this up or allow people to click on the link. I think everybody could learn something from his story.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:16 PM ^
So appreciative of Jasin Collins' willingness to come out. Supporting my best friend as he came out helped me to realize how scary the process can be, and I can't imagine doing it publicly like Jason.
Seems like a good person to be a first--a veteran player, connected to many in the NBA. Hopefully the response will be positive enough that the second and third won't be far behind.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ^
for being gay (and did some of that suffering in A2, and as an employee of the university), I welcome this moment with everyone else.
P.S. Article is VERY cool. OP might want to note that it's really Collins's own manifesto of coming out. Might surprise some people.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:22 PM ^
Wait, he's black??!!
April 29th, 2013 at 12:37 PM ^
And a CENTER! Don't forget that one too.
Seriously though good for him. I'm pretty sure one of my son's is too and candidly weather he is or isnt doesnt change how I feel about him one iota. I love him and want nothing but happiness for him regardless of who he chooses to spend his life with.
As stated earlier, it will nice when these type of revelations will be as newsworthy as someone "coming out" as left-handed or liking mustard on their hamburgers. I'm glad he had the courage to do so and I DO think he's a hero for being the first to openly admidt it publically. Hopefully others will be encouraged and will go and do likewise.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:27 PM ^
I haven't seen a single one yet. Unless some got deleted.
"Case in point."
Unless, I suppose, your usage guide is the Facebook/Twitter Blue Book. And I understood that the mods have had to monitor few if any of the comments.
The Scalia stuff above was the closest we've come to the line, but I think you and the other posters did a good job making it about the case and not the politics of the man writing the opinion (plus it didn't turn into anything nasty).
April 29th, 2013 at 12:29 PM ^
My only issue is that calling him an "active" NBA player may be a bit of a stretch at this point. As of yesterday, there was a good chance his NBA career was over.
Not sure if today's news changes those chances in either direction.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:33 PM ^
Agreed, but I would imagine he still wants to play. As opposed to the other athletes who came out after their careers were over
This.
This guy will get credit for being the first, but if he never plays again, it's the same thing as if a former player came out.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:29 PM ^
April 29th, 2013 at 12:29 PM ^
Good for Collins for taking this step, on his own behalf and for the betterment of sports in general. Shows some courage, and I applaud him for taking this step. And he seems to be going about his announcement with humility and grace. A good day for sports.
Overall the article was well-written, but two quotes stand out:
I didn't set out to be the first openly gay athlete playing in a major American team sport. But since I am, I'm happy to start the conversation. I wish I wasn't the kid in the classroom raising his hand and saying, "I'm different." If I had my way, someone else would have already done this. Nobody has, which is why I'm raising my hand.
And this jab at Shaq:
I'm not afraid to take on any opponent. I love playing against the best. Though Shaquille O'Neal is a Hall of Famer, I never shirked from the challenge of trying to frustrate the heck out of him. (Note to Shaq: My flopping has nothing to do with being gay.)
April 29th, 2013 at 12:37 PM ^
This is awesome and courageous, great for Jason and sports in general...
But I am really looking forward to the day where being gay is so widely accepted that anyone, athlete or otherwise, goes "I'm gay" and everyone gives him the Cool Story Bro look and says "Cool" . I'm slightly conflicted because this is a big deal. But the bigger deal this is, the more the underlying message (In my opinion) is that it's news BECAUSE he is different from everyone else. He's not. We need to stop drawing lines accross sexuality, race, etc. to really make progress.
April 29th, 2013 at 12:43 PM ^
I appreciate the sentiment of "how is this a big deal in 2013? - anyone hung up on this is an idiot" in your post and the one above. But it's based on an assumption that we're an enlightened society that punishes homophobes.
The problem is that the folks hung up on someone's sexual orientation make it the gay person's problem. But gay folks are hiding their sexuality for a reason - they can suffer greatly from the prejudice. You see gay kids in high school committing suicide, getting lost in drugs, or being just generally miserable because of these prejudices. And gay adults can suffer greatly for being out too. I see gay colleagues struggle with these issues with too much frequency. And it's not just Matthew Shephard extremes. The anti-gay prejudices are not always that obvious, but my gay friends note that coming out has a cost. (Of course they note staying in the closet has costs too.)
Collins's action helps raise gay awareness and helps make it more acceptable to be gay. In my mind, that's what makes this important.
This shouldn't be a big deal in this day and age, but male professional sports is really one of the last bastions where homophobia is acceptable. The fact that it's taken until 2013 for an active male athlete to come out of the closet is a testament to that. Hopefully this is the first blow to knocking down this wall.
I'm not sure it will ever fully disappear from sports. Athletes in team sports keep close company - they will at various times see each other naked in the locker room while they shower and afterwards - so some are probably going to feel uncomfortable being unclothed in the presence of a gay person. That's not necessarily due to bigotry - many male athletes don't feel comfortable having female reporters in the room when they're changing, either. That's a tricky issue.
I think we'll see less overtly anti-gay stuff being associated with sports (like coaches calling their players "fairies" or whatever) in the future, but I suspect there's always going to some locker room tension about players' sexuality.