OT - MJ/Isiah and the Dream Team
It's probably not really a shock but there is evidence out that yeah, MJ lied in "The Last Dance" about having nothing to do with Isiah being off the Dream Team.
This podcast has audio of Jordan saying: “They called me to ask me to play. Rod Thorn called me. I said, ‘I won’t play if Isiah Thomas is on the team.’ He assured me. He said, ‘You know what – Chuck doesn’t want Isiah on the team. So Isiah’s not gonna be a part of the team.”
Should have just come clean, MJ.
That's also a pretty bold claim about Chuck Daly. Unfortunately Chuck (RIP) isn't with us to respond to it.
This post couldn’t be more right on. I have always appreciated what Isiah did for Pistons basketball and for Detroit. The no-bullshit approach was what made me love them even more.
Having a serious late 80s Channel 50 flashback of those great years. Including the Dunham’s and DTE commercials he did. Broken up probably by a Telegraph Ford Commercial. Come here, dog!
Fun fact: the "Bad Boys" moniker was actually a NBA creation. Then when the Pistons embraced it, suddenly Stern and the marketing suits tried to use it against them.
Fuck Jordan.
Fuck Stern.
Fuck Bird.
Fuck L.A.
Fuck 'em all.
Great story: the day Jordan retired WXYZ sent out a reporter to Laimbeer's house to get a reaction. Guy had to stand on the porch and call out to Lam thru the screen door.
Reporter: "What's your reaction to the retirement of Michael Jordan?"
Laimbeer: "Michael *who*?"
Fuck Jordan.
"Chuck" was is absolutely Barkley, MJ's best friend in the league.
To all who were involved with keeping Isaiah off of the “dream team,” it was disrespectful to the game. Isaiah deserved to be on that team, plain and simple. It should not be called the “dream team” as a result.
Newsflash, MJ didn't gamble either, just really liked baseball enough that he really didn't want the chance to win 8 straight NBA titles. Yes sir.
He had a "competition" problem.
How is that him lying? He said he had nothing to do with it, and this audio states that Chuck, im assuming Daly, didnt want Thomas on the team in the first place.
So in MJs mind, he didn't have anything to do with it because he was told Thomas already wan't going to be apart of it.
In "The Last Dance" he claims that Isiah's name never even came up in that conversation.
On the tape: : "I said, ‘I won’t play if Isiah Thomas is on the team."
Fuck Michael Jordan. Blatantly lied to the millions of viewers on the last dance about the Isaiah Dream Team snub, and now this prick is name dropping the late Chuck Daly who can't even speak for himself if Jordan is lying or not?
What a grade A douchebag.
It wasnt Chuck Daly it was Charles Barkley. He had been feuding with Isiah and the Pistons for a chunk of his career as well.
I agree to disagree. You're telling me Barkley was pulling the strings for the Dream Team? LOL. He is referring to Chuck Daly.
I'll ask Barkley the next time I see him.
I have a hard time believing that the head coach who won two titles with Isiah didn't want him on the dream team; I don't have nearly as much difficulty believing Jordan would black-ball Thomas and then lie about it.
I had a couple of people ask me if I watched that show and my general response was "I don't need to hear Michael Jordan selectively revise history for 10 hours." Jordan was a great player, one of the top-2/3 of all time, but he seems like an asshole who only cared about his image and could never handle real criticism or the chance that someone might not want to buy his sneakers or watch Space Jam. He's, at best, a mediocre owner and most of his non-basketball endeavors have fallen flat. Giving him a barely-edited soapbox to tell people how great he was and how everyone else was lesser wasn't a compelling reason to watch and, once I caught a preview of the Pistons episode and saw how it framed both teams, I was happy to skip it.
I didn't watch it either. Giving Jordan what amounted to "final cut" assured that objectivity would be diminished. I do think he is the best ever because his defense was so incredible to go with his offense. The other possibility is Wilt, who as hard as it is to believe, actually seems under-appreciated.
I also lost interest in the Olympics with the advent of the dream team because the winner became academic at that point. I liked it when it was our college players against every one else's pros and we still won except when jobbed in 1972.
I realize that would have changed as the world got better and especially when our college players routinely began leaving early, but it was more dramatic before.
I was 8 years old when we got robbed of that gold. I still can't believe what I saw.
Shit, 30 years later and Isiah still lives rent free in Jordan’s head
Fuck Michael Jordan.
I feel like we need to also address the other garbage-ass claim in Last Dance. "Oh, the Bad Boys were dicks because they walked off without shaking hands. Not like the Celtics. They were being sportsmanlike to the Pistons and the Pistons were just dicks to the Bulls." Except that it was pretty much McHale and some scrubs shaking hands and the rest of the Celtics walked off, and when the Pistons were eliminated, John Salley and a few other guys shook hands while other Pistons walked.
In other words, the Pistons acted exactly the same as the Celtics, only Jordan remembers it as "Pistons dicks, Celtics nice" and since it's Jordan and Boston, nobody questioned it.
Should be noted that McHale commanded a lot of personal respect in the Bad Boys' locker room. Zeke especially.
Bottom line, Jordan sucks. Obviously not as a player, but as a person. Tired of the free pass. Being “competitive” does not excuse one from walking all over others, nor does it give one the unquestioned right to revise history.
I am SHOCKED that a “documentary” that had to be fully approved by MJ paints MJ in only the best light. Shocked.
It was entertainment, not documentary. And that’s fine. Isiah is and was a bitch.
yea; Pistons were baby bitches -- reminded me of Miami hurricanes football of 80's to 90's -- they prided themselves on their "tough guy", bad boy image; but whenever someone else roughed them up; they cried like little girls....just like their trashy fans.
Isaiah continues to cry to this day about the dream team --- what happened to that tough-guy persona, pal?
As I understand it, the Pistons in general and, in particular, Isaiah Thomas were disliked around the league. They chose to play a certain way and need to live with the earned backlash. If Isaiah was disliked by most of the team it makes perfect basketball sense that they wouldn’t include him. If one person will disrupt 6-10 other players then it’s a no brainer... when the best player in history also feels the same then ? it’s done. Pick your “locker room cancer” of choice and argue their inclusion on any team of your choosing. Pretty sure everyone has had a toxic coworker you wanted to avoid.
If you're passive-aggressive enough to work to keep someone off the team and then actively deny it was you, maybe you're the locker room cancer.
Yea I don't think many would claim MJ to be a lockerroom cancer.
I guess I am wondering why MJ continues to hold such a grudge and to this day, not just dislike Isiah, but absolutely despise him. In your playing days and making up the Dream Team, I get it. You don't want to play with a guy that not just you don't like, but seemingly everyone else on the Dream Team would've had issues with. I get that. He walked off the court prior to shaking hands and that rubbed you the wrong way. Fine. You didn't like their style of play. Fine.
But you're how far removed from playing at this point? Almost 20 years? As far as I can tell, Isiah didn't do anything that attacked you personally, like have sex with your wife, get your kids thrown in jail, or find some way to ruin your career. As far as I can tell, your sole beef with him is what happened on the court.
How long does it take you to just get over it, shake hands with the guy and just move on? The guy doesn't have to be your best friend, but for transgressions like this, at some point I'd just sit there and say "I was pissed off then, but I'm over it now. Water under the bridge. We don't have to cross the street to avoid each other on the sidewalk." I get being pissed off in the moment and while you both were still playing, but to still be this angry about it for this long, to me, is just kind of petty and childish.
But MJ won six titles and has more money than I'll make in ten lifetimes, so I doubt he cares what I or anyone else thinks about the appropriate amount of time to hold grudges.
Yeah, I don't understand it from Jordan's perspective.
From Isiah's perspective, I think it goes deeper than the Olympic snub and comes down to the fact that Jordan took over in Chicago, his hometown, and because the rivalry was so intense, Isiah became a villain there. Isiah is still probably the greatest Chicagoan ever to play in the NBA but can't go back home. I imagine he carries some baggage from that.
For Jordan I don't know what would still be grinding his gears. His won-loss record against Isiah?
I think Dwyane Wade has something to say about that greatest Chicagoan statement.
Wade put up big numbers but I think Isiah was more of a franchise player.
Anthony Davis may give him a run for his money.
Who can forget the time when Wade went all theatrical when he hurt his shoulder. Meanwhile, Zeke is out there on a broken ankle (popped it back in place actually) schooling Magic Johnson, Kareem and boys. I'll take Zeke.
Zeke was as tough as they come. And pays the price for that literally every day of his life. His right hand is permanently disfigured and he has an addiction to pain pills he will never kick.
Don't forget he also holds a grudge with his once 'best friend' Charles Barkley all because Charles rightfully so called him out on the way he was running the Charlotte Bobcats. Jordan has some serious demons he's dealing with in his head - but he's still a bitch. Fuck that guy.
What gets me about the whole handshake incident is the Bulls players and fans act like not shaking their hands is as bad as the Pistons stabbing someone with a knife on the way out. It's like get over it, there's so much worst shit athletes can do these days