OT: Mgoblog Mechanics
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:26 AM ^
Fusion is one of the most reliable "domestic" vehicles. My friend has one 2008 model, which still runs great at almost 120K miles.
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:24 AM ^
If Carmax told you "it's the CVT" I would find that interesting, as those cars don't have CVTs. "First gear" and "CVT" are mutually exclusive concepts.
I also don't buy even for half a second this "learn your driving" line. Transmissions behave how they behave. They're not a Nest thermostat.
That's two strikes against the Carmax dealership. I would take it back to the local garage and see if one of the mechanics will ride along with you as you drive. Then you can point out when the car is doing what you observe and they can tell you if that's a problem. I also like the idea of test-driving an identical car. Don't just pick up the same make and model, though, find out exactly what transmission is in yours and test-drive that.
January 22nd, 2018 at 1:33 PM ^
The 2013 Dodge Avenger could be equipped with an Ultradrive transmission which does adapt to driving styles.
A side note about this transmission, if for any reason Dexron ATF fluid is added to this transmission, problems with shifting are sure to occur.
January 22nd, 2018 at 3:51 PM ^
From a purely mechanical standpoint, yes, CVTs do not have a "first gear". However, I've driven several cars with CVTs that have those fake-as-hell paddleshifts that allow you to "change gears" when all you're doing is moving the CVT through pre-determined ratios to give it a classic "rowing through the gears" feel.
To the average layman, putting the car in "D" on the shift lever and going means they're going to first gear, even though most non-CVT automatic transmissions will default to starting in second gear because first gear is generally useless unless you're drag racing or towing.
As for transmissions learning your driving styles, it would not at all surprise me to find out that some do. If you're the kind of person that just mashes the gas from every stoplight, you can save a lot of wear on a CVT if it defaults to a short, aggressive ratio from a standstill rather than adjusting under load. When the transmission is controlled purely electronically, you can absolutely allow it to learn tendencies that extend it's life.
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:29 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:50 AM ^
Take it back. Why own something that annoys you?
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:51 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 7:06 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 8:01 AM ^
have them change the transmission fluid and filter (or have them pay to have it done). Be in the shop when they drain it and pull the filter. If there are bits of metal shavings in there return the car.
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:54 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 7:05 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 7:19 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 7:24 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 7:58 AM ^
As a mechanic who works for a Chrysler dealer, I would take it to Chrysler dealer. I'm not sure if you bought it at one or not. I know there is a service bulletin for a computer update to improve shift quality. The only way to know if its been done is to take it in. The car does NOT have a cvt in it. It is either a 4 seep or a 6 speed depending on the engine. I have seen alot of spark plug issues on the 4 cyls cause all sorts of issues on this model. Good luck.
January 22nd, 2018 at 9:26 AM ^
Now I am curious - are there any similar problems with Jeep Cherokees? That's my everyday vehicle for work and the field, and while I don't have any issues with it yet, I was wondering if you've seen any systemic issues with these as well.
January 22nd, 2018 at 9:59 AM ^
The first year Cherokees were terrible with trans/computer issues, those all have been resolved. My wife has a 2016 Cherokee w/ 40k plus miles and has zero issues with it. As working on cars in dealerships for 20+ years(spent years w/ diff manufacturers) everyone who say "their" brand is bettery than "my" brand hasn't delt with the cars like I have.
If you take care of your car it will last a long time. I have owned many cars that had over 250k miles on them when I sold them. All of those vehicles had original engine and transmissions in them.
January 22nd, 2018 at 11:15 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 8:22 AM ^
and i'm pretty sure it's the crankshaft
January 22nd, 2018 at 8:35 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 9:08 AM ^
Hard shift is not bad, the fluid gets squeezed out of the clutch packs as they are hydraulically applied. Racers deliberately jump up the line pressure in a trans which makes it shift "harder". They do this because the slip that happens before the friction material "grabs" creates heat that at some level destroys the friction material. Less slip, less heat, overall good although your backside can certainly feel this.
A juggled or really soft shift is bad imo, there are two basic causes. Some kind of dirt or foreign particle is occluding a fluid passage so it can't flow at the designed rate, thus impacting the clutch apply speed, OR there's a problem in the pulse-width modulated (PWM) solenoid which is controlling this electrically. But, it shortens the life of the clutch pack in question.
Tl;dr;head spinning;technojargon;gaah
If trans problems suddenly develop there are two pathways to follow.
1) run until it dies, expect a $3-4k repair bill to replace the trans. Not terrible if you get a 100k warranty with the new trans.
2) sell it while its still mainly working, all your problems go away.
Personally I would go with #2. A CVT is sort of a hybrid technology that's driven by fuel economy issues but I don't consider it a technology that's known for its great durability. Best, imo is a rear wheel drive transmission. Generally bulletproof.
January 22nd, 2018 at 2:07 PM ^
You sound quite knowledgable with transmissions. I'm sure you have more experience with them overall than I do, but there is one thing I have to respond to....
The idea that people up the line pressure to get harder shifts to keep the heat down in order to increase longevity is false in my opinion. Wet clutches are designed with a certain amount of apply pressure such that the physical discs don't actually touch. There is a microscopic film of oil between them that transmit the force. This is achieved by having an exact amount of pressure applied to the discs. Not enough pressure means they slip, and too much pressure means they touch and you get premature wear. Wet clutches are designed to last forever theoretically becuase the friction material never touches anything so no material contaminates the fluid. When you increase supply pressure you are going to actually CAUSE premature wear, not avoid it.
Like I said, I'm not a transmission expert, but I do know that one specific thing about force transferring in a fluid.
To the OP: FCA has never been known for robust transmission designs.
January 22nd, 2018 at 4:29 PM ^
But they fall apart suddenly if they get too hot. The slip-during shift to make it feel nice is the primary generator of heat (add to generalized heat increase from shearing the fluid with the torque converter when racing).
Most modern (say last 10 years-ish) gasoline engines back out spark advance before the shift point to reduce the torque for a slight bit of time. Which is good for overall life. Most light snowplow trucks were constantly in and out of trans shops during the working seasons with old hydraulic-only controls. With the advent of electronic controls the incidence of problems is much less.
Most modern transmissions also PWM jump up the line pressure if they measure that you are going wide open throttle as its better to have a hard shift when you're working the cage hard anyway than a soft one that could shred the clutch packs.
Talk to drag racers, don't take my word for it 8-)
January 22nd, 2018 at 9:36 AM ^
I would take it back and get a non Chrysler product to be honest. These Avengers particularly are known for trans issues...go to an Avenger forum and read up on it from other owners
January 22nd, 2018 at 9:39 AM ^
and backyard mechanic... I've never taken a trans apart, but I'd tell you right now to drive that thing to Carmax today, return it, and never look back. Dodge/Chrysler cars are and have been notorious for poor transmissions (and quality in general), even before you consider that CVTs are terrible for reliability just by design. The more recent CVTs are getting better, but the paltry mpg gains aren't worth it IMO.
What's your budget and "need"? Just something for commuting that gets decent milage? Avengers are the bottom of the barrel in their segment and there was a reason FCA dropped it completely for the Dart... which also failed spectacularly. If you just want an A to B compact, get a Civic, Corolla, or Cruze IMO. Parts and labor will be cheaper if they do break, and reliability is leaps and bounds above FCA cars.
January 22nd, 2018 at 10:00 AM ^
Not so fast my friend! I can't speak to the Dodge Avenger, but MANY cars with CVT transmissions actually do adjust to your driving habits over time. The computers begin to "learn" your habits and adjust their shift points accordingly to maximize fuel economy without sacrificing performance. At least that's the theory. I'm just not sure how well the computers would adjust when the car already has 60K miles on it - but it may well be that you drive it very differently than the previous owner.
That being said, I avoid CVT's like the plague because I've known way too many people that have major issues with them before 100K miles. I also avoid Dodge/Chrysler like the plague but that's more just personal preference, to each their own.
January 22nd, 2018 at 10:23 AM ^
Check the Fetzer Valve and clean the gunk off the windshield.
Sincerely,
Fletch
January 22nd, 2018 at 10:44 AM ^
So I usually make a joke about checking the flux capacitor. Consider this my joke.
January 22nd, 2018 at 10:56 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 11:07 AM ^
Never buy that trans package
January 22nd, 2018 at 11:13 AM ^
on this blog astounds me. Maybe I am just a lucky dude.
I have owned nothign but RAM trucks for about 12 straight years. Never had a problem with a single one besides having to change brake pads every 50,000 miles or so on the front (100,000 on the rear), change spark plugs at 75,000 miles or so, front rotors at 120,000 or so and the oil every 8,000 - 10,000 miles (full synthetic etc).
Also have owned a Dodge Caliber that had 130,000 on it when my daughter totaled it. Thing ran like a champ. Never any issues.
Fords I have owned always have electrical issues (windows stop working etc.) and I have only ever owned one GM that wasn't a lemon, a 1990 Cavalier.
January 22nd, 2018 at 11:53 AM ^
Agree. Growing up we mainly had Chryslers or some variant. Never a single major problem with any of them. I can think off the top of my head of six Chryslers (or Plymouths) my parents owned and none of them had these transmission problems that people keep talking about.
There's a reason I say the best advice about which car to buy is never to listen to any advice about which car to buy, because it almost always comes in the form of "I had such and such a car and it was great / it sucked, and you should definitely (not) buy it." For some reason, sample size goes right out the window whenever it comes to opinions on cars.
January 22nd, 2018 at 11:44 AM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 3:14 PM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 12:19 PM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 12:20 PM ^
Chrysler is the worst in the US and Fiat the worst in Europe.
My uncle's family owned a small dealership in the thumb from 1927 to the BK. He told me they stocked transmission on Ram trucks and minivans which is crazy given how small they were.
Even though his old dealership is two blocks from his house in what is Mayberry RFD he owns a Lexus and a Prius now.
January 22nd, 2018 at 1:30 PM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 3:47 PM ^
Here's why.
You take the fluid that's just peachy (doesn't wear out) and put in new fluid. Now you stirred up any accumulation of dirt/grit/swarf which had formerly settled into a quiet place out of the flow streams and introduce it to a fluid that has the propensity to pick it up and carry it from the formerly quiet place and into the working bits of your transmission....on a gross scale it can get so bad as to plug the pickup tube and lower the line pressure, clutch packs can't clamp, slip, and fall apart.
My opinion is one should change it every 30k or change it never. I am in the latter category. Add as required, of course, but never wholesale change. Thus far no fails. I have heard at least 8 stories of people who changed transmissions shortly after getting a "flush".
January 22nd, 2018 at 4:57 PM ^
I guess you know how trans flush works? Its really simple and it won't stir up any junk if its done with the proper equipment. Old fluid out-New fluid in. Changing it every 30k is a waste of money unless you are working the crap ouot of the vehicle. Every 60k makes way more sense.
January 22nd, 2018 at 2:27 PM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 5:08 PM ^
January 22nd, 2018 at 7:07 PM ^
As someone else stated, it doesn't look like 2013 avengers or any avengers for that matter were offered with a CVT. So it sounds like Carmax doesn't know what they are talking about.
There are most definitely transmissions that learn and adapt to your driving style. Whether your transmission adapts and learns, I don't know.
You might be able to disconnect the negative battery cable for a few minutes to "reset" the adaptations but with some vehicles this doesn't work, the car has to be connected to a computer for the adaptations to be reset.
Having the fluid flushed is not something I would recommend, there is a possibility that a chunk of sludge or contaminant will become dislodged from a place where it is probably not doing any harm and end up in an fluid passage and create more problems than the flush solves. Having the pan dropped, the fliter changed and the fluid that comes out of the pan replaced with fresh fluid would be a good idea just as a maintenance procedure.
There are forums specific to the avenger where you can post your issues and you might get some good information there.
https://www.avengerforumz.com/
Good luck.
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:52 PM ^
I was a certified mechanic for a few years. Those Dodges are known for bad transmissions and I would never advise a friend to get one. If you are in the 30 day window they are hoping you make it through without replacing the transmission.
*I was also involved in racing and if it weren't for the unfortunate circumstance of falling for the wrong girl I would have been working in NASCAR in the 90's.