OT: Keto and similar diets: do they really work?
I know this has been discussed before, especially among those who lift or are trying to lose weight/get into better shape, etc... I've put on the middle-age 7 or 8 pounds in the past couple of years and I want to lose it, stat. I've been curious about the keto diet, but I'm concerned about the cardiac implications. I took an online quiz to determine my own personal keto diet (not going to follow it, was just curious) and it told me my diet should be 75% fat, 20% protein, and 5% carbs. I have a family history of heart attacks and I take a statin. Is it possible to do keto without consuming a ton of saturated fat? Does keto really work or are there better ways to lose weight?
Same here. MyFitnessPal works.
You don't even need to count your calories. Just have a general idea of how many calories you're putting into your body at each meal, then adjust for it daily. If you eat more calories at one meal, cut down at another meal. And if you eat more calories one day, cut down the next day
Mostly true... but my thing was that I had zero idea whatsoever of what food had more or less calories. If you had asked me when I was 35 how many calories were in a draft budweiser, I might have said 20 or I might have said 500. Same for a slice of standard white bread. The app really helps you get a handle on what foods have more or less calories, even by an order of magnatude.
I did Atkins for a while and I lost a ton of weight, fast, despite eating bacon and shrimp by the pound. But I don't think it's a sustainable diet for the long term. Too restrictive.
The worst part for me was that I never felt full. No matter how much I ate I never felt satisfied. That's ultimately what led me to give up on it. I did keep most of the weight off for a long time though.
Yeah, I had to do a strict "no sugar or carbs" diet for 3 weeks for medical reasons in 2017. I lost about 7-10 pounds (I wasn't overweight to begin with) in 3 weeks, but good grief I was STARVING. Even when I would eat an 8-ounce steak, I'd be hungry again almost immediately.
I'm sure going without carbs works for weight loss, but it made me miserable in general. Maybe there is a way to do it differently.
I think there are versions of the diet that allow some carbs now, but maybe the weight loss isn't as fast or significant?
Oh, and I forgot to mention the headaches. For the first 3 days it felt like an elf was standing on my shoulders hitting me with a hammer. My body really did not like giving up carbs cold turkey.
Chicken stock in a mug of hot water helps with Keto flu very fast acting and the hunger gets easier over time. You get full and eat less.
I'm the same, re: carbs. If I don't have a carb in the meal, I'm hungry 30 minutes later.
Just so you know, this should not be the case, and the fact that it is means you likely have an intestinal microbiome that is hideously skewed towards carb-feasting bacteria, or you have a blood sugar/insulin resistance issue. You are also probably a sugar addict like most Americans (including me :[ )
So in your case (but not all cases) Intermittent Fasting or Keto seem like the best ideas. I would not trust you on a Calories In/Calories Out diet as your addiction will take over unless you have iron clad willpower and a supportive family (that also gives up sugar with you). You wouldn't tell a smoker or alcoholic to "limit" the amount or nicotine/alcohol that they have each day, you would tell them to stop entirely. Same concept here.
Dunno how I would determine insulin resistance. I seem to have some of the supposed symptoms: I have mildly high triglycerides, mildly low HDLs, my blood pressure modulates between normal and mildly high, and I have mildly high blood sugar. But none of those numbers ever seems to get into a range that any doctors are concerned with, and my weight has been extremely steady (at a reasonable place--my perfect weight is probably 5-7 pounds less if I were working out) now for about 25 years.
But I won't deny that I'm a sugar addict--that has always been true.
Our biology is shockingly similar.
I'm not really a refined sugar addict though. I can go long periods of time without eating any cakes or candy. I love carbs, but usually as rice, pasta, potatoes, etc.
Intermittent fasting is great. Love it. Tolerable, reasonably easy. Way what u want on weekends, be good during the week.
Sugar is definitely a problem for me. I don't buy cookies or cake, but I do bake them myself on occasion. I don't eat white flour, though, or very, very rarely. Only whole wheat pasta or legume pasta, and if I bake, I use whole wheat pastry flour or kamut flour.
I can swear by intermittent fasting.
ZERO exaggeration, I lost 100 lbs in 12 months- from 274 to 174.
So obviously it can be extremely effective- it's also, by far, the most convenient health choice I've ever made because it's MUCH more a rhythm than a diet- you can do almost any diet to the rhythm of intermittent fasting.
And, maybe the best part- while you do lose weight doing IF, the disease prevention/blood marjers are absolutely astounding. My wife and I got life insurance for the first time when I was only 40 lbs into what would eventually be 100 lbs of weight loss- I was STILL 60 lbs overweight, and I got the best possible rates.
Insurance agent who sold it to us is a good friend- he told me he had no idea how I got the rate I did with how overweight I still was- he had runners at 6% body fat who couldn't even touch my rate or blood markers.
Crazy when you look at fasting cultures and periods of time where fasting was unavoidable (i.e. depressions, etc). Life expectancy clearly jumps.
So yeah, I lost a ton of weight, but I think it's wise to consider that a byproduct- a really, really nice byproduct, but a byproduct nonetheless.
Try the 4 hour body diet....it's similar to atkins but it adds in slow burning carbs (beans, lentils, etc.) for 6 days a week and then 1 day a week you can go nuts and eat whatever you want. I lost 30lbs in 3 months doing this diet. Not as tedious as Atkins, you get to have a glass of wine every night and you get the 1 cheat day a week, and the results were great. If Atkins worked for you, this will probably as well.
Yes.
In other news, I just tried the quarter pounder from McDonalds that is not made with fresh (never frozen) beef. It is delicious. I'm usually a McChicken, McDouble, Medium Fries, and small Coke kinda guy. However, went a little crazy and got the Deluxe Quarter Pounder combo (add Mac sauce) and it was awesome.
Quarterpounder - 510 calories
McChicken - 357 calories
McDouble - 390 calories
Medium Fries - 365 calories
Small Coke - 150 calories
1500+ calories plus enough sodium to fill an ocean. I think Wendy will fare better on Keto.
My math looks a bit different than that
In my experience, Keto DOES work for weight loss - but it works better for folk who have a lot of weight to lose versus a little. Your 7-8 pounds doesn't sound like much. I'm sure it is annoying but it's probably not obese, so it sounds more like the latter vs. the former.
Just in general, lowering carbs and lifting weights are a good idea. I did find Keto a bit draconian, at 20 grams or less per day. I'm now generally eat 25-75 grams of carbs a day. Certainly a lot better than the days I would drink 2 sodas a day (that's 140 a day right there!).
I just went through cutting 15 lbs off my dad bod to get back to my ideal weight of 170. I’ve tried for a couple years and the only technique that worked was simply calorie counting. I ate what I wanted, just not as much as I would have chosen had I not been measuring caloric intake. The MyFitnessPal app is a great calorie counting app that’s easy to use. I basically lost 1 lbs per week over 15 weeks and have been able to keep the weight off.
I use the same app and have had the same level of success. For me it's all about being aware of calories in so being able to reliably track it and to be accountable is key.
Keto definitely works. I lost 35 lbs doing keto from 195 to 160. Unsaturated fats are like nuts and seeds, avocado. I did a bunch of googling before starting it, to figure out diets and stuff. Its sort of hard to get that much % of diet from fat and not overdo the protein.
Middle-Aged 7 or 8 pounds? Wtf kind of clean life are you living?
Never format a diet based on the internet.
The only thing that works that I know of for most people is eat less and exercise. And the exercise part only really matters if you're exercising pretty hard. The studies that claim that exercise doesn't help you lose weight are just flat wrong. I think the studies are faulty in that they reliance on testimony biases their findings. I've changed nothing and added basketball for an hour 5 times a week and lost 20 pounds over a summer.
I was just told I should lose 20 pounds for my long-term heart health.
I refuse to count calories, it just sucks the fun out of life. But, I now only eat 3/4 of what I normally would (which is still too much). First couple weeks I lost 6 pounds just doing that and starting to play basketball a couple times a week for an hour and walking a couple miles 3 days a week.
Went from 241 to 235. My ideal weight is probably 210 (or so my doctor said at 6'5"), but I'm willing to try for 220.
I apologize for completely ignoring the premise of your post, but long term, as far as I know, the only thing that works is calories in - calories out unless you have a ton of weight to lose in the short term. Yes, the types of food you eat matter and can help, but in the end, eat less and exercise is the only way.
saw your post after i already posted lower. But i've found a good way to cut out some caloric intake is with intermittent fasting. No idea if the fasting actually does anything, but I don't eat breakfast and I wait until almost 1:00 pm to eat lunch, definitely eat less than I had been.
Long fasting periods can screw up your metabolism and actually cause you to store more fat per calorie in than you would eating less at normal intervals.
I've done keto and it does work if your main goal is weight loss. You lose a lot of weight fast. When you remove the glycogen from your body the water associated with it goes out of the body. After that the weight loss is mostly because you end up restricting calories. Cravings really diminish on the diet. When I was doing it I found exercise to be pretty much impossible. I'm pretty active and I just can't handle a pure keto diet anymore. I like a lot of the principles of keto like removing processed sugar and bad carbs but you don't get the super quick weight loss without doing the very strict carb restriction.
I was never really a breakfast guy to begin with. So when my wife started looking at intermittent fasting, I decided to officially cut out breakfast and push lunch back till almost 1:00pm and go along with it. Other than that I really haven't changed much of my diet, definitely don't hold back when we go out to dinner on weekends.
I don't know if the fasting part actually does anything, but coupled with eating salads for lunch weekdays, I assume I've really reduced my caloric intake, becuase I have shed a few pounds.
This is incredibly oversimplified, but from what I understand, intermittent fasting does 2 things. It promotes ketosis at the end of the fast (fat burning) and it reduces your caloric intake because 2/3 of the day you're not eating.
The first is good for losing weight, the 2nd is good for keeping it off. And I think for a lot of people, eating normally for 8 hours and then not at all is easier than eating light for 16 hours.
Yes Keto works for weight loss, but I discovered the holy grail for losing weight last year. Google search Dr Jason Fungs obesity code and read his blogs. It’s all about hormonal response and in particular insulin. Keto diets work well because the insulin response is low. Dr Fung explains why calories in/ calories out is such a failed attempt at losing weight. I lost 20 lbs since January without grueling workouts,and I use Keto principles, but not a zealot about it. There is fasting involved, but only to reset insulin levels. I’m sure everyone is different, but this worked very well. I can’t preach it to enough people, but most people think it’s crazy. But I can attest that it works.
This has been my experience as well. Lost 20 lbs quickly on a combination of IF and Low-Carb inspired by Dr. Fung and have been able to maintain it for the last two years by keeping up with the IF aspect.
My experience is/has been that I've lost weight and kept it off by mostly avoiding refined sugar and simple carbs. It's hard to completely cut these out, and I haven't done that or even tried to. But limiting them a great deal has made a significant difference. I try to consume no more than about 15 grams of refined sugar per day. And I almost always eat brown rice or whole grain bread instead of white rice or white bread. My weight loss has been slow(ish) but very steady.
As for heart health - and I know this is obvious - people should talk to a doctor about that. I'm not sure there is a healthy, sustainable way to lose weight fast, but I'll again defer to doctors.
One more thought: I exercise and clearly benefit from it, but it doesn't seem to have much to do with weight loss one way or the other. Diet seems to mostly determine my weight.
One more one more thought: You might check out a book called The Case Against Sugar.
My wife and I did the Whole30 for a month a couple years ago.
Typically, my weight at that point was around 180-185 and I’m 6’ 2”. Typically, people refer to me as having a ‘skinny’ build.
The night before we started I ate and drank myself into oblivion and came out at 189.
A month later I was down 17 pounds to 172. I hadn’t weighed anything in that ballpark since the late stages of high school and college when I was doing swimming workouts.
I had some bad side effects; the tension headaches and let’s just say stomach problems at the beginning were not fun. Forget trying to eat out either.
But, by the end, I’ve never felt better. I woke up feeling refreshed every morning and never had any drowsiness or lack of energy in the day.
It’s not a diet for the faint of heart but one month shouldn’t hurt.
I’ve been doing keto and intermittent fasting for the last 11 months. I’m down 45lbs and into the “normal” BMI range after narrowly being in the “obese” range. It’s great. I love the food I eat and actually eat more vegetables now than I did before. It’s very adaptable post-weight loss too.
I’ve done Whole30 the past two Januarys to reset my body. Fall and Winter are my worst times as I coach both High School football and basketball. Beers and Burgers after games really hurt any healthy diet plan. Add to that tailgates and the holidays I usually am about 10 pounds up from where I want to be. I have lost 20 lbs every time I’ve done this method and this time around I’ve been able to keep up with this diet on a not so restrictive basis. I am down 45 lbs since the start of last year, and have los 22 lbs this year alone.
I’m doing insanity starting Thursday, so I’ll see if this diet is enough to keep up with the high interval training
All of the diets, keto, Adkins, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc work and there is no great difference in weight loss. The idea is that you eat less, have better food choices, and exercise.Get the book Always Hungry by David Ludwig, M.D., PhD. Available at many supermarkets. It is a sensible path to weight loss.
I've done keto on and off for the last couple of years. I can tell you that when I started I was hovering around 190 lbs at 5'7", so I was considered solidly overweight. In the first few months I dropped down to about 160, in that time I was consuming roughly 1400 calories per day, about 110 grams of protein, 80 ish of fat and trying to stay below 20 grams of net carbs. The good thing about it, I suppose, is if you're trying to stay away from saturated fat it's pretty easy to get most of your fat intake from sources like olive oil or canola oil, or other vegetable oils that are low in saturated and high in all the "good fats" that people are always super pumped about. I can tell you that at times my diet will consist of what other people may call "too much bacon". I've had a couple of physicals for work in the past done while I've been on keto and I'm assuming all my blood work and stuff came back fine because it never raised any red flags.
A couple of things I would like to note for you. I am a 29 y/o male, these things may be different if you're female or older or younger. I work a very strenuous summertime job as a wildland firefighter which is why I kind of do keto seasonally. In the off season I do strenuous cardio about 3 times a week and body weight exercises pretty much everyday. Some resources for you if you do feel like trying keto; I use the myfitnesspal app on my phone to help me track my daily intake. I don't know if you use reddit or not but there is a pretty decent community over at the keto subreddit, they have some good places to get started pinned to the top and in the sidebar; a simple keto calculator and sample meal planning stuff. They aren't too toxic, but like anywhere online there can be some assholes. Also if you're considering a diet and what not make sure you consult a doctor. He or she might not be on board and suggest something else or they may not even know what keto/whatever your diet of choice is, so just talk to them and make sure it would be right for you. And like most people have already said, it's pretty much all about calories in vs calories out, just keep that in mind. Sorry for the wall of text. Good luck!
The math is very simple: To lose weight the number of calories burned/used must exceed the number consumed. Eat less calories and move more.
The rest is head games and semantics.
You can lose weight on any diet to be honest as long as you keep your calories in deficit. Keto diets cause water weight loss, intially, due to losses of glycogen reserves. 1 molecule of glycogen binds to 3 or 4 molecules of water which is why there's that "whoosh" at first.
Unfortunately, people think they can eat all the bacon and meat they want putting them back in calorie surplus.
I think a diet of fruits, vegetables, nuts and lean meats is pretty good. Keep your calories about 200-300 per day what your maintenance is, exercise and you've got a nice formula.
Watch the Magic Pill on Netflix. They really try to go after the fact that fats are unfairly blamed for heart disease. They also go after Big Corn like Bud Light seems to be doing. Definitely don't take it as bible or anything, but I found it interesting. At the very least it should give you an idea on where to start doing research on how it could help/hurt you.
FWIW, I am not nor ever been on a keto diet. Never heard a bad word about it. It would be something I might try for a bit, but not something to live on forever, imo.
I generally had eaten pretty healthy but over the last year I bottomed out and gave in way too much to fast food and take out pizza and weight about 195 and my ideal weight is about 170ish. Starting to work out again and cardio will get the weight off. One trick I tried and worked was to eat half as much as I usually did, but ate it super slow and drink an extra glass of water and it actually worked pretty well. I was content most of the night or afternoon after lunch. Eating breakfast helps too, starts your metabolism early.
Two things I would recommend:
First, watch a video on Netflix called "The Magic Pill". It illustrates the amazing benefits of Keto as well as the "establishment push back", particularly in South Africa (since it goes against the prevailing attitudes and perceptions of doctors who still cling to the idea that if you have cholesterol problems you must not eat a fatty diet.)
Second, I would at least speak to your doctor about it and seek counsel from a medical professional. You might even seek out a second opinion.
It has worked very well for my wife who has lost between 20 and 25 lbs. (and she does not exercise other than to walk the dogs occasionally) She looks better than she has since we started our family about 30 years ago. She has also experienced reduced inflammation (in her joints especially).
Keep in mind you are mostly seeking out the healthy fats, as others have mentioned. The hardest part for us has been cutting out breads, pasta, and other carbs such as beer. Rather than total elimination, we are now moderating those carbs and trying to be mindful of intake. That helps with the cravings for the things we like so much. For me, the challenge has been maintaining the fiber in my diet, so I try to keep lots of veggies and some moderated fruits in my diet.
Overall, I would recommend giving it a go and see if it works for you.
When I met my wife I was 172 20 years ago. A few years back I rolled the odometer and have struggled to get and stay under 200.
We did Paleo and I dropped 20-ish. But, my wife is blessed to have a metabolism that keeps her thin. The problem for me is that she buys wonderful snacks and doesn't suffer for it. So, when she decided she had enough Paleo, ice cream, cookies, and chips showed up in the pantry again.
Now I'm back on the wrong side of 200.
No one diet works. The vast majority of benefits people get from diets is being conscious about the food they eat and how much they eat. Caloric intake is the primary driver of weight loss or gain, whats in those calories guides how healthy you are. You can lose weight eating nothing but mcdonalds and gain weight eating nothing but veggies from a farm in your backyard.
Find something that is going to work for you long term, if its not something you want to do more than 30 days you won't stick to it and it will be useless, its going to be a lifestyle change, not a short term diet fix.
Also looking at calories by week instead of by day is a fantastic way to build a healthy lifestyle rather than boomerang from on and off diets. Looking at your calorie intake by week allows you to be flexible, enjoy a friends birthday cake without having to starve yourself the day before or after. You can eat that enjoybable but super fatty thing your mom/wife/husband/whatever makes without starving yourself if you plan over a week. Its much more sustainable because it allows for real life to not destroy it.
Also also, any diet that claims you have to cut anything out is full of shit. You should whatever works for you but just cutting out carbs isn't some miracle of medicine. You can eat anything and lose weight, just find what works for you.
man, this is a really good idea.
I feel like I already kind of do this, but hadn't explicitly thought of it like this. I don't eat breakfast, and try to eat salads for lunch most weekdays, so then if I eat out or bring in for weekend dinners I don't have to worry about limiting myself.
jakerblue - if you don't eat breakfast already, you might want to consider intermittent fasting. You basically can eat normally except you limit your eating hours to 6-8 hours a day and the rest of the 18-16 hours not consuming ANY calories. Or, you eat 5 days a week normally and the other two consuming less than 500 calories. Jimmy Kimmel swears by the 5/2.....I've tried the 18/6 daily fast for a month with good results for maintaining the weight I lost doing another method.
thanks for the tip, already do it though!
i generally don't eat after 7:30, sometimes I'll do a piece of fruit at like 8:30 though. And then don't eat until right before 1:00pm.
I posted earlier, I'm not sure if the fasting actually does anything, but IF does definitely help limit caloric intake. I think this is the first time I've been back under 150 (i'm only 5'6") since high school (I'm 35).
Yes, they work.
Are they long-term solutions for you? Maybe, maybe not.
My take on keto is that it gets you adapted to burning fat, but if you're only trying to lose 7 or 8 pounds, I don't really see the point. You might go into ketosis and drop those 7 or 8 pounds of fat, but if you go back to the way you were eating beforehand, you'll gain it right back. And if you can't handle eating those fats (nuts, seeds, avocado, etc.) full-time for life, then it's just not sustainable.
Cutting down on carbohydrates seems to be the #1 priority on almost any diet. Paleo? Fewer carbs. Atkins? Fewer carbs. Keto? Fewer carbs. Unless you're going vegetarian/vegan where none of the food is very calorie-dense, all those extra carbs are useless.
You shouldn't make your decision based on me (or anyone else in this thread), but I gave up diet soda, processed carbs (no bread/cookies/cakes), and any kind of sweets. This really hasn't been that difficult. I get my carbs from fruits, avocados, nuts (almonds are low in carbs, for example, but cashews are high in them), etc. I eat more chicken, eggs, spinach, etc. It's going well so far after about three months. The tricky thing for me has been my electrolytes. I'm getting less sodium and such because I've cut out processed foods, so I have needed to make it up with B12 and magnesium supplements, along with eating salted almonds.
The standard American diet is what ruins us, because it's full of soda, bread, treats all the time (birthdays, work meetings, holidays, etc.), etc. You can probably achieve your goals just by eating a little bit cleaner. If you normally eat a turkey/cheese sandwich for lunch, take out the bread and you're probably saving yourself 200 calories and some processed carbs right there.
Yes! Cutting down on processed carbs (and alcohol) as well as regular cardio and body weight training has kept me in great shape at age 50. However, genetically I've always been more muscular and slim so there's that, too. The book Nourishing Fats by Sally Fallon Morell and all of her other cookbooks/nutrition books have really opened my eyes and I've been healthier and felt better since including more animal fats into my diet.