OT: If you were a graduating college kid, which city/state/region would you choose?
To begin your career. We have a daughter graduating in a few weeks and she's moving to Seattle. Not at the advice of us or really even her plan, it's just randomly where her internship last summer happened to be and they made her a full time offer back in August. She really liked Seattle, so that's where she'd headed. Our youngest daughter is starting college this fall in Ann Arbor. If you have kids, are you advising them to head to certain places you think are positioned to prosper and/or if you could do it all over again and were a graduating college kid next month, where would you go?
My recent grad moved to Seattle/Bellevue last summer with some classmates. Seattle is getting more like SF, LA with regard to cost of living ( and homelessness downtown) but it's a great place with lots of professional /tech jobs. If you drive an hour or two in any direction the natural scenery is spectacular. Tech companies are slowly going back to the office a couple days a week, so living not to far from the office is probably a good thing.
Places outside Denver, Colorado seem to be a hot spot for 20 somethings now.
Southeast
I’d choose traveling or a job that allows for it. When I graduated I moved to London and got to travel around Europe. Then I worked in Romania, Morocco, and Spain. I’ve settled down in Seattle because of climate and proximity to skiing and water. I’ve never lived in SF, NYC, or LA. Never regretted it. For some reason those cities didn’t appeal to my sensibilities.
Alaska, probably south-central
Alaska? You are, clearly, a "wide open spaces" kind of guy. 👍😁👍
have been going there for 30 years, a couple of my best friends live up there. we have had some pretty epic trips over the decades. we all started as single guys, now all married with kids, but the trips continue.
Perfect! Life-long friends are one of the cornerstones of happiness. I'm lucky that mine live close to a warm beach. Oddly enough, I visit during the winter months. 😁
March 13th, 2022 at 11:07 PM ^
i passed on their last 'deadliest catch' adventure. shrimping in april in the gulf of alaska - 70 mph winds and a blizzard. they sent me a video from the pilot house, with the ocean and snow blowing over it. i'm a pretty sturdy guy, but glad i said 'no' to that one.
I got stuck in automotive engineering, so I am here in Michigan. (Wifey is an RN) If I had to do it all over again, I would go into accounting/finance, IT/Data Science, which can basically go anywhere (IMO). I would have moved straight to Phoenix or Dallas where the heat is on 9 months of the year as opposed to 9 months of cold.
My youngest son is finishing up his 2nd U of M degree (Masters of Applied Data Science), and it may allow him to work from home. However, we are hoping he goes somewhere warm, so we can visit/snowbird near him in the Jan - March time frame.
Dallas may be the worst weather I ever experienced. Springs have tons of severe weather and storms, Summers are insanely hot, and winters are very cold with snow and occasional ice storms. You really do get the worst of all weather there.
It is 100% dependent on her career.
I moved to Seattle after college and it was a good move for my career, though the endless winter rains eventually got to me after a decade and I left.
The big problem I see with Seattle is that it is now ridiculously expensive. When I moved there it was not. Houses that went for 300k when I moved there are now in the 1.5 - 2 million range.
Anywhere but Seattle, Portland, LA, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, or Miami. If you value your life, I would start by declaring those cities dead to you.
Ok this is......interesting. I've lived in Seattle (11 years) and LA (4 years) and at no point was my life in any kind of appreciable risk. Yeah LA has some crime. The LA metro area also has more people than the entire state of Michigan.
I live in LA too. At no point here have I felt my life was threatened, even in South Central or other dicey neighborhoods. The town we live in has almost zero violent crime.
Compare that to the town in the Midwest where I am from. I went back 2 weeks ago. In late night around the city, I was really, really on edge. The cook at a restaurant we went to was wearing a piece. That made me very uncomfortable.
Where in southern cal are you at? I'm in bay area but may be relocating down south. Looking for a good area to raise our toddler. We love hermosa but need something more affordable :)
Redondo Beach. Next to Hermosa and more affordable. Best place I've lived. Excellent school system. No one who has moved here has regretted it.
PM me if you're looking for info.
March 13th, 2022 at 10:27 PM ^
Graduated in 2001, moved to Miami, loved it. Then moved to ATX in 2015.... meh to ugh. Now as of two weeks ago living in OC CA, loving it.
I think your graduating daughter has it just right: she worked for them, and anticipates she'd like working for them full time, plus she knows the place, and presumably likes it.
Anyway, fewer people anymore will be with the same job in the same place.
The most important lesson of her education, and of your youngest daughter's, is probably learning to stay flexible, in what they're doing and adjusting to what they'll do next.
Congratulations and good luck to them both. And to the proud parents.
I'd advise against hubs like NYC or San Fran for a new grad on an internship, as the cost of living there is astronomical, their wages are the lowest they'll ever be, and other far less expensive cities also have great restaurants, respected theaters, and world class museums. Friend runs a satellite branch of a San Francisco tech company out of Austin, he makes far less than the company president, yet lives far better, has a bigger house, and nicer office, in a better climate, etc etc.
This is easy, I've lived all over the US so I have some experience.
1) SAN DIEGO top three reasons why
a- weather
b- weather
c- weather
Negatives: not many, a little pricey but just make more money and that solves that.
2) AUSTIN top three reasons why
a- great college town and young professional demo's
b- economy is exploding
c- COL is high but not exceedingly
Negatives: biggest being, its in Texas, hyper growth is driving COL up rapidly
San Diego really is the best. Only downside I think is that pay is not that great there for the same job you’d get in LA - despite it being similar in costs IMO.
As someone who lived in the Austin area from 2012-late 2019, it’s pretty awful unless you live right near downtown - which really is a great area if you’re in your 20s. Otherwise, it’s a long commute to do anything (worst/smallest highway system for any major city I’ve ever been to), and it’s mostly just suburbia and strip malls as far as the eye can see - I’m talking about Cedar Park, Round Rock, Hutto etc. Add in the wild increase in COL there and it’s just not that great sadly.
March 13th, 2022 at 10:33 PM ^
I just left ATX last month after six years, I lived in Miami after graduation (since 2001). Austin sucks. The COL is approaching SoCal yet you get little for it other than four white guys in a band and all the barbecue and beer you can fill yourself with. Not to mention the ROT (Rest of Texas).
Now I live in OC CA and feel normal again, money be damned.
Austin, TX. Lot's of tech companies moving there from Silicon Valley - Tesla, GM, Oracle, Samsung, etc. Apple, Dell, IBM, Applied Materials already well established there. Very liberal Ann Arbor-like environment. Slogan is "Keep Austin weird." No state income tax. UT-Austin is a public ivy.
https://flatironschool.com/blog/best-tech-companies-austin/
Houston is also good. Texas Medical Center (2.1 sq miles) has 54 medicine-related institutions, with 21 hospitals and eight specialty institutions, eight academic and research institutions, four medical schools, seven nursing schools, three public health organizations, two pharmacy schools and a dental school. Energy capital of the world. Home of NASA. A hour's drive to Galveston, the third coast.
March 13th, 2022 at 10:38 PM ^
I just left ATX. Austin is only weird if you grew up in the Plains states watching the pump jacks go up and down for fun. Austinfornia has become the worst of both Texas and California.
Go where you can find the very best job opportunity, based on your chosen career field. Enjoy the journey and each and every place life takes you. As you get into your 40’s, you’ll likely have developed some preferences on places you’d like to live long term. If you have kids, you’ll probably want to stay wherever you are by the time they’re teenagers, or slightly before. Dream big. Ann Arbor was a great place to grow up but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed all 8 of the different places/states we’ve lived. It just so happens our last move, over 20 years ago, was to San Diego and that’s where we ended up. There is definitely other places we could live and be happy, but this is home and we have very few complaints!
"if you could do it all over again and were a graduating college kid next month, where would you go?"
Same as what I wanted to do back when I graduated: Pacific Northwest (Seattle/Portland) or Colorado. Never happened for a variety of typical reasons—mainly family ties in MI—but that's where I'd go in a heartbeat.
Midwest. Obvious
Tell her to live on the Eastside. Me and everyone I know has moved out of city proper. Seattle has become a shot hole. Tons of crime. Tons of homeless. I lean left and it’s too much for me.
Was it too much for you 20 years ago when crime rates were nearly 2x higher?
I'll bet at least a couple of people in this thread watch a lot of TV and use "war zone" often in conversation.
they're also the same people who think all the streets of DC and Portland were completely ransacked in the summer of 2020.
Cool chart. Do you live in Seattle? Didn’t think so. But keep posting shit about things you know nothing about. LOVE thst you instantly assume I’m republican. Wake up call. The Seatte and SF mayorS acknowledge these problems.
so… get fucked when you don’t know. I’m trying to help this guys daughter
Also you graph ends in 2017, Ace. I loved living in Seattle in 2017. Keep posting graphs to try and dunk on people.
March 16th, 2022 at 11:42 AM ^
yeah, trust me, i follow these things for various reasons. i've been a resident of both Seattle and SF to boot.
If you take a look at this report, it outlines that violent crime rates are indeed up since 2019 but are still nearly half of what they were in the 1990s.
Meanwhile, mayors respond to constituent fears, which some particular media outlets are doing a remarkable job of drumming up. When SF's District Attorney was elected in 2019 it only took a few months before recall petitions were circulated for his removal. Seems a bit reactionary, and that's the line that mayors take too.
The American experiment is on shaky ground. I'd recommend she move to Berlin, London, Paris, Montevideo, Singapore, Sydney, or Vancouver.
EDIT: why boo? Every one of those cities is ranked in the top quartile in terms of quality of life assessments.
I stayed in Metro Detroit out of college bc that’s where I got my job offer. I was a finalist for roles in Phoenix and NYC, and turned down a gig in Grand Rapids.
Since graduation I’ve lived in LA and currently Nashville and am open to move again after a couple years at my current role. LA was definitely the best city I’ve lived in, but simply too far from my parents in MI. Nashville is cool enough, no state income tax in TN which is great, but housing cost is skyrocketing to coastal levels, ironically due in part to an influx of people from the coasts with money to spend lol.
I’d basically live in any city with a major hub airport. My parents plan to retire in India, and I need a one-stop itinerary. Thinking Dallas/Atlanta/Chicago with my next move or maybe back to California.
Just moved back home to the Midwest after spending 3 years in Seattle, jumpstarted my career. Literally tripled my salary in 3 years and am 2 levels up from when I left.
Thankfully COVID and the trust of leadership allowed my family to move back home.
You could do a LOT worse than Seattle. It's fucking beautiful, so much to do outdoors, and tons of opportunities. Depending where you are it can be a bit of a grind, it's a bit "high risk high reward."
Depends on the career, but If looking for a cool place to live with multiple industries, low cost of living, the first to come to mind are Nashville, Austin, Cincinnati, Minneapolis.
So I live in Nashville and it’s quickly losing its low cost of living status - no state income tax of course, so you’ll save there but we have one of the hottest housing markets in the nation, it’s low cost compared to NYC/LA/SF but that’s about it
santa barbara, lock the thread.
unlock
chicago is an amazing place to spend your 20s.
lock.
Moved to NYC a few years ago after growing up, going to college, and starting my adult life in Chicago. Wish I had come to NYC earlier. I make 20-25% more here in FinTech. My partners makes 30% more as a commercial photographer. Our friends in graphic design and product design also do much better than where they left (Seattle, Chicago, Minneapolis). NYC is obviously expensive but it’s a great experience. We’re considering moving up into the Hudson Valley, Maine, or buying a 3 flat in Philly (which is also really nice, much to my surprise). Love the Midwest but going East has offered me a lot more professionally, personally, and in terms of things to do outdoors (from Chicago, Illinois is fucking flat). The Northeast and Mid-Atlantic aren’t far from the Midwest either. Just my 2 cents.
Not to threadjack, but I just love these topics and all of the input. I currently live in Fresno and have been contemplating a move back east to be closer to my family. I can’t bring myself to even look in Ohio, I escaped twice now, there won’t be a 3rd. When I think about Southern Michigan I like everything but the weather. I don’t think I can do cold anymore, at least not to the level of a Michigan winter. Right now I am contemplating Charlotte or Raleigh. They seem to check a lot of boxes.
I spent 3 years living near Tacoma and I just loved WA, but it’s getting ridiculously expensive. The weather was not nearly as bad as I feared. You trade the extremes for grey skies and a lot of drizzle from October to April. That’s a trade I would make everyday.
I would agree with those who suggest big cities while they are young. How exciting that your kids have these options, good work as a parent, OP.
Move to the spot that opens as many doors as possible to whatever is most important in your life at that time: family, friends, job, hobby, etc. If that means you stay close to home, great. If that means you’re super poor living in Geneva, great! The biggest thing is: live…and go to the spot that allows you to do that the most, whether you are saving piles of money or living paycheck to paycheck…
Honestly, I think it comes down to vibes in a city. I lived in NYC for almost a decade and it never felt like home, then moved to Boston and it's felt great and we've settled down. I know other people who moved to NC and loved it immediately, others who fled the suburbs of Atlanta and Houston and wound up living in D.C. proper. You just have to not be afraid of change of it doesn't feel right, which is a luxury younger people can and should take advantage of
I live in South Florida and went to UCF. I was there for the 0 win season, the frost years, and the Heupel beginning. My Family is a huge Michigan fan, but I grew up in Florida so the idea of going to UM for college just seemed impossible for me since I'm a typical Florida person where anything below 70 is cold.
Seattle is great. I moved here in 1978 from Michigan. No regrets. Mild temps, both summer and winter. Skeeters nothing like what you have in the midwest. Summer humidity same thing. And the thing about rain is you don't have to shovel it. Annual precip here isn't any worse than most other places, just takes three times as long. Often a soft rain. Rarely a downpour.
I'm going to push back a bit at the premise that a primary consideration in deciding where to live is the job market (and realize that I don't know if you live in Michigan or someplace else). Anyway, while I'm sure that there are fields where certain areas of the country have a near monopoly on the best jobs (I would assume Silicon Valley and Seattle for types of tech, NY for certain areas of finance and legal work etc.), but if you are doing something less specific I think that there's much to be said for living near friends/family (assuming you like your family) or just someplace you want to be. As I a lifelong Michigander I'm biased, but I have friends who have come back to the Mitten from Chicago, San Franciso, Seattle, DC, LA and other places, and most are happy to have made the tradeoff of a somewhat lower salary potential for being close to their kids' counsins, grandparents etc. as well as the Big House. I guess my point is that there are good jobs, cultural venues etc. in lots of parts of the country, and there are other factors in building a happy life.
The Atlanta is pretty cool place to live. A melting pot of people from around the country with southern hospitality! Half a days drive to the Nash-Vegas, the Gulf, or Eastern shores. Our airport will get you just about anywhere on a direct flight. Plenty of corporate HQ in the area.
I'm from the west coast, San Diego to be exact and I wouldn't live in San Fransico or Seattle for anything. They are cesspools. NYC is better now that so many people left and it's so much easier to get around, but the good places to live still cost way too much for nothing. Houston and Boston are the 2 major cities I've spent time in and really liked. Boston was the easiest big city to drive in once I got into the city, plus the people were extremely friendly. Houston, the 3rd or 4th largest metro depending on the year has a ton to do and the friendliest big city I've been in. They make up for this with insane fast and aggressive driving everywhere. Never been to Chicago so I can't say anything about it other than all the people I've met who moved away. Vegas outside of the strip is rather affordable, but that won't last too much longer. Charleston, SC near the beach is a nice smaller city as well as St Augustine Florida. Decent waves to surf certain times of the year if you aren't looking for big wave riding. You can get a 3 to 4 foot wave. Not going to shred much, but a decent ride, especially good for beginners and us older guys just wanting a decent ride. I love Nashville, did my personal trainer cert there and it is a great place for nightlife. My family is in Atlanta, and truthfully, I'm not much of a fan of the city. It's ok, but not the best.
I’ll be the contrarian here: what’s wrong with Detroit? Autos going tech and actually recruiting against Silicon Valley, extremely cheap cost of living, chance to be part of rebuilding a great American city