OT: How effective are masks you ask?
I know this is OT, but just in case anyone is interested, thanks for your time.
Early on before testing and other precautions ramped up in Korea, there were 2 hospitals that both admitted patients with flu symptoms who ended up staying for multiple weeks. It was only after a week the covid19 tests came back positive for these patients.
Both hospitals were in an uproar. Covid19 patient for a week mixing with all the doctors and nurses and patients? Everything was cancelled, everyone was tested, everything was cleaned. To make things worse, multiple patients shared the room as the covid 19 positives, staying together almost 24/7.
Guess how many got infected?
Zero.
Not a single nurse, not a single doctor, not even patients in the same small room.
To further drive the point, one nurse from one of these hospitals later on that week went to a church service without a mask for 90 minutes and get infected
The only thing they did? The patients had masks on the entire time because they had flu symptoms when they were admitted.
The medical professionals concluded they prevented the spread almost completely via masking the patients. And in case you're wondering Korea has some of the best medical systems in the entire world.
The hospital? Back to full workloads, only with mandatory mask requirements. Nobody was fired or furloughed obviously.
Just google translate the following link. In case you're wondering this is one of the most conservative and highly read news sites in Korea.
https://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2020/03/25/2020032500295.html
"Weird Guys" not "Weirdos". According to Izzo anyway
masking up goes against every bit of human immunology that exists...by masking up you are not only exposing yourself to whatever you have trapped in the mask, the lack of exposure to flora and bacteria is sacking your immune system
that is quite a statement. Let’s break it down.
goes against every bit of human immunology that exists
I guess you learned immunology from a Medieval scroll. You see, modern medicine has discovered that diseases are not transmitted by “bad air” or “humors”, in fact diseases are spread by microscopic organisms called bacteria and viruses. These organisms don’t have the ability to fly through the air. They are transmitted from person to person through physical contact and the small water droplets in the breath, etc. I know breath appears to be only air, but actually it has a lot of droplets and is near 100% humidity. Not sure if you’re able to follow all this to it’s logical conclusion, but this means that wearing masks is actually supported by every bit of immunology that’s been known for the last 100 years.
By masking up you are not only exposing yourself to whatever is trapped in your mask
So you’re exposing yourself to yourself. What would be trapped in your mask other than your own germs?
the lack of exposure to flora and bacteria is sacking your immune system
This is more than a stretch. This is something that hippies brought up like 50 years ago when companies like Clorox and Lysol started producing a lot of bleach and antibacterial products. Think about how many times you’ve cleaned your house without wearing ppe. Every time you spray cleaning solution on a surface and wipe it wit a cloth, some of the bacteria that lives on your skin dies. It hasn’t disrupted people’s microbiomes. If all the sanitizer and bleach you’ve used for years hasn’t “sacked” your immune systems ability to respond then wearing a mask will certainly not do that.
I'm not sure why you're even bothering to explain things to this person. Nothing you say will convince him to change his mind.
Remember that guy that tried to prove that the earth was flat by launching himself in a steam-powered rocket? He believed until the end.
Idk maybe I’m a bad person but I’m kind of getting a kick out of replying to these fools. I don’t really expect to change his mind I just think it’s funny.
masking up goes against every bit of human immunology that exists...by masking up you are not only exposing yourself to whatever you have trapped in the mask, the lack of exposure to flora and bacteria is sacking your immune system
I assure everyone reading this that it is entirely false. "Sacking your immune system." Jeebus. If you want me to explain the "Hygiene Hypothesis," which is what you're probably referring to, I'm willing to do that in some other forum.
Freaking Semmelweis, that dude messed everything up. Now our immune systems are all "sacked" and can barely fight off novel, highly transmissible infections. Back in the day, we had good, robust, natural immunity and things like variola and Yersinia would just disappear because we had things under control.
Even if you want to mak a point about how we build our immune system by exposing it to the world, trying to build up your immune defense in the middle of a pandemic by exposing yourself to the pandemic is just a big bucket of dumb.
This isn't letting your kid play in the dirt with worms to get used to microflora and fauna or letting kids get colds so they can fight the dangerous things later.
Do you just not know how to evaluate risk?
You could have just started with the conspiracy theory Youtube link and saved us all the time reading what is, at best, a stream of words with tenuous connection to medicine and science.
There are not "two sides" to this argument, or anyone "silencing" some additional viewpoint. On one side is the entire medical profession and combined hundreds of thousands of years of research, experimentation, and knowledge. And all of them basically say that wearing masks and taking necessary precautions can stymie an airborne virus from infecting others. On the other side are people who look at all that information and, because it doesn't match their prior assumptions, dismiss it all and resort to theorizing about some great cabal trying to kill us all because they can't accept that they're wrong.
A childhood friend of mine and his ex-wife stayed with me when I lived in California because they wanted to go to some seminar. It was basically one of those scam psychics who "got a sense that there was someone with a name starting with L-M-N-O-P...." Turns out they also believed in crystal power and pyramid power. Crystal pyramids were extra powerful. These were smart people who went to MSU and Northwestern, but their minds were filled with crap. It amazes me how people are able to take the one dissenting opinion of a known crackpot and just run with it because the mainstream media is putting fluoride in their water for mind control purposes. There are not two sides to science. There are hypotheses and experiments.
HA! I've been waiting all day to see this video here! You delivered!
My favorite was the 800 years to mutate enough to jump to humans...something along those lines. All I needed to hear, and then I read earlier about muuuuuch more wrong with that video. Which is only a snippet of a larger film that must be 10 hours long if that was a snippet.
Blue_by_u
You posted a bs video profiling this doctor:
”Mikovits has become a champion for believers in medical conspiracy theories, basing claims linking the XMRV to autism and cancer on other retracted papers, and claiming she had been jailed by the influence of the Deep state and Big Pharma for exposing the truth about vaccines. In reality, she was arrested on November 18, 2011, for allegedly stealing lab notebooks, a computer, and other material belonging to Whittemore Peterson Institute (WPI).[23]”
Apparently she has been a long time antivaxer who made up a conspiracy theory that Covid19 was from a bad flu vaccine. I’ve never googled a person before and come up with anyone that has had as long of a conspiracy theory (debunked) resume than Mikovits. Her big YouTube video keeps getting taken down.
You say “two sides to every arguement” and what you have instead is just a bunch of BS on one side. You need to go back to study college level (accredited) science and journalism so that you can understand what is needed in terms of double blind studies, statistics, peer reviews, and independent editorial boards before you suggest any hint of an argument.
Yep, good thing there are folks like you to make sure this lasts a really long time. Whatever you have "trapped" in your mask would only come from you. The US will drag this virus out as long as possible because of all of the conspiracy theory idiots.
I think this also explains it
https://www.truthorfiction.com/wear-your-mask-the-urine-test-analogy-meme/
I've said before that people who are worried about this thing ballooning up again in the future (and there's no proof one way or another on it right now, btw; this is all guesswork) is that, if people use their heads while in public, there shouldn't be a "worse second round." A worse second round would only happen if everybody decided to ditch any and all safety precautions.
Wear masks, wash hands, stay home if you're sick, and you cut back the majority of transmission methods, people. It really is that simple.
You're not wrong--it would be that simple. But it's not. Because humans.
We'd all be healthy if we gave up booze and slept more and ate healthier and exercised. But we don't do these things (on average as a society/world).
If masks were mandatory until things are under control, that would solve the issue.
No shoes, no shirt, no mask, no service. That's all stores need to do.
All you need to do is read these threads to see that some people won’t wear masks for made up reasons to be contrarian.
And some people murder the security guard telling them they have to wear a mask. Or grab a shop girl's shirt and wipe their snot on it.
People are fucking animals.
I wear a P100 respirator any time I go to a store. People look at me weird, but fuck em.
I don’t think I’d mind people wearing masks more frequently after this over. Every year people with colds and shit still walk around and go to work. If wearing masks when sick becomes the cool thing to do I think we’d all be better off.
Same. I only get a couple weird glances, and have actually had a couple loud compliments on it. Doesn't matter either way, as I give zero fucks what anyone thinks. Much less some fuckwit who wants isn't wearing anything. Idiots.
Addendum; the "because humans" point, while not entirely wrong, will never be overcome, no matter how loose or tight things get.
You can have the perfect theoretical system of life, and people will screw it up. Why? Because we have it in our nature.
Original Sin, baby. It exists.
Sure. But some societies of humans have done a heckuva lot better. If my theology is accurate, the Taiwanese and South Koreans have original sin, but they wear masks writ large.
Right, because it's probably mandated.
One of the "advantages" (I use that term loosely) is that most people know somebody from second or third-hand relations who has gotten sick from the disease. Even if their form of it had mild symptoms (like the majority of the cases are), it's still not fun to be sick. So knowing that it's out there and really makes people miserable (or, in cases of people with heart/lung conditions, much worse) works to remind people that they sure don't want to catch it.
Original Sin, baby. It exists.
Do you... know... what original sin means?
Do you know what it's been used to justify?
Find another metaphor.
"Do you... know... what original sin means?"
Yes. We have a sinful nature inherited from Adam and Eve.
"Do you know what it's been used to justify?"
Irrelevant. An abuse of a truth does not make that truth any less true. If you believe in macro--evolution (which I do not), do you abandon it because Hitler used Darwin as a basis for his monstrosities inflicted upon humanity?
"Find another metaphor."
It's not a metaphor, it's fact. You and I are both born with it, we do evil because of it, and the only way out of the sentence that awaits us for it at the end of time is faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ who died for our sins.
Haha, this place has gone to shit. You're a loon, & you can cram your proselytizing.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Ha
Belief, not fact.
Change humans to Americans. Lots of other countries seem to have a handle on it, but our white trash freedom lovers don’t like being told what to do
I’m pretty sure people of all color enjoy the freedom from government oppression America provides. It’s certainly one of the reasons people immigrate here from all over the world.
That's true. But if you told them it's the freedom to not wear a mask in public during a pandemic they'd laugh in your face.
That’s bullshit. Kimchi cures covid-19.
I KNEW there was a reason I loved that stuff so much.
no. it actually prevents it.
ironically, the link to the korean newsoutlet, chosun news, is the Fox News equivalent in SKorea.
Back in HS, I was voted “Most Likely To Have An MgoBlog Account”.
You mean before they made you finish tenth grade remotely starting in March?
I graduated years ago.
I was hoping for something more definitive than another post with anecdotal evidence. I will say that I trust the Mayo Clinic more than J.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
Can face masks help prevent the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the disease.
Thanks for the link. My Korean is rusty but I’m going to go with: masks help more than they hurt but unless the can filter out extremely small particles (N95 and above) they won’t help if those particles are airborne. Now, others (particularly ill ones wearing masks) won’t emit enough of these particles to make others ill. Lesson: either everyone wears them, or they’re useless (pretty much).
With everyone wearing masks, even when they show no symptoms, the chances of getting infected are much less than without.
How does your comment change anything that I said?
And you’ve been upvoted twice and I’ve been downvoted. Seems strange. Considering I said your point you had the courage to rebut my post with.
A mask, even with pores that are of larger size than the virus itself, is still an impediment for the virus to make contact with your body. A mask has finite thickness with interwoven layers such that the pores do not provide a straight path through the mask thickness. There is a non-zero chance that the virus(es) ends up implanting in the mask fibers instead of in your mouth or nose. Therefore, it is better to wear a mask than not.
Feel free to attempt to disprove any of the above.
In other words, you really want to fuck that hooker in Vegas, but you see she has an unidentified spot on her vag...and you don't have a condom. If at any time you gave it a second thought then you auto agree with my argument.
I think we're all gonna need a picture of that hooker to make a good judgemnet call
Masks are about keeping your mouth fluids in more than they are about keeping airborne things out. If everyone where something to keep their fluids in, then there should be much less fluids in the air. And so every person who wears one, the better
I said verbatim: they help more than they hurt. They don’t keep out virions but if everyone wears them, they help. Otherwise, no. I feel like people can’t read around here.
Please. Help me explain. How has any reply here said anything different from my post? I must be dirt dumb.
I think it’s the fact that you’re saying the masks don’t trap individual virus cells. Which is not their intent, and not what anyone is claiming.
Right. The virus doesn't come out free floating. It's in the water vapor we breath out. Sure an N95 mask probably works better, but almost any decent face covering would help.