OT: The Great Resignation

it's so bad right now. 

I work at a top university as a senior administrator.  We usually get between 100-200 applicants for any job because its one of the most visited domains in the country (every job crawler aggregates our jobs).

at least 50% of those applicants are usually throw aways but there are quality applicants at the top.

I posted a Program Director position over a month ago.  25 applicants total and about 2/3 are throw aways.

Something is going on - I don't understand where the people all went

I haven't hired anyone recently, but I have been considering switching jobs for a pay upgrade. It seems like a time where employees have more options and autonomy than in the past.

It's a really weird time to be alive.

Disclaimer: company owner here.

I'm in a highly technical medical field, so the people I hire are usually highly skilled and command high salaries/benefits (and I have to pay it).  These types of people are harder to find and hence require high pay.  So be it.

With that, the lower skilled jobs (i.e. back office HR, finance, etc.) are the ones who are getting screwed as part of the "great resignation".  Companies have popped up offering part-time non-direct employee services to fill those roles seamlessly.  So when we lost our full time head of finance, I did not hire someone, I hired a service under a time and materials (i.e. 1099) agreement where I don't have to pay benefits or a high salary, but still get quality work.

I am ready to jump ship myself for higher pay (by 40%!) - but im somewhat nervous.  Will the new job pay last?  Will there be a ton of people in a year or 2 looking for jobs and undercut my pay making me expandable and let go?

I have been at my job for over 20 years and am comfortable (know what im doing, my role, able to take time off to take kids to games etc..) but i cannot ignore the pay raise - unless its temporary then maybe i would be making a mistake leaving?

Aerospace industry.

There's a shortage of people due to:

1) Retirement

2) Mostly stagnant salaries (and shitty raises) and a sluggish promotion cycle for most employees

3) Competition for similar talent outside the industry (tech, startup manufacturing, etc)

4) Security clearance bureaucracy

5) Ever-rising cost of living in industry-heavy regions

We've had loads of offers rejected due to salaries, so we've had to bump up even the new grads and other entry-level position salaries. On the plus side, there's a big push internally to adjust raises to make extant employee salaries appropriately scaled to the new offers, but we'll see how well that goes. Some of the big companies are throwing crazy money around for specific talent and security clearances.

I personally have not (working only a couple of days a week now as I ease into full-time retirement) but can echo the sentiments of others here regarding the absolute parcity of quality people to fill available slots.  Here at my company in the medical device space we've had to radically increase comp for our sales team lest we we lose all the good ones to competing offers.

I can say this past summer I watched my 17 year old son get his first real job (McDonalds) at $11/hour.  After working at a location about 10 miles away from our home the McDonalds closer to our house offered him a job at $12/hour so he left.  Then a pizza place next to the McDonalds where his friend worked offered him $13.50/hour so he left McDonalds #2 and went to make pizzas.  He worked there for about 2 weeks when McDonalds #1 (the one about 10 miles away) called and offered him $15/hour to come back.  So he went there.  All in all he held 4 jobs this past summer and saw his compensation get raised from $11 to $15/hour in about three months.  And he got to choose the days and the hours he wanted to work at each job.

The best story of the summer came from McDonalds #2.  They, like all companies that rely on teenagers as the backbone of their labor force, had severe turnover issues.  One day they had a managers meeting and the owner of the franchise forbid all managers from yelling at new hires no matter what they did as the employees were quitting almost immediately after they got yelled at to go work someplace else.....you know....exactly like my son did all summer long.

I am very interested to see how long this lasts.  I wonder whether we are headed to being more like France, where (as I understand it) it is often better to be a worker and worse to be a consumer.  I think that a lot of people are tired of jobs that seem almost designed to be unpleasant (which I realize is only some of the explanation here; don't get me wrong).

I was promoted officially 2 months ago - and now Im "wearing two hats". I accepted the new role back in November and the job has been posted since that time. They have only interviewed one person in that timeframe. Its crazy....

It's a unique market.  I was laid off on October 1.  I received several months severance - so even though I started my job search right away I didn't go at it that hard.  I still had 4 job offers by mid-November.

I accepted one and started my new role in mid-December.  Now I am trying to source an incremental add to my team.  It is VERY slow going.  Our compensation range is strong (IMO) and my company is a respected name in the industry, but the candidates don't really seem to exist.

I run a company of about 50 people - turnover hasn't been terrible, but we've had such a hard time filling jobs.  Some jobs we have traditionally are harder to fill - but nothing like this. We've started offering signing bonuses, increased compensation (some positions like 15%-20% within this past year alone), and offer all the benefits - flexible schedule, work from home options, healthcare, 401k matches, etc etc etc.  Still, we're not getting anyone interested at the levels we had even a year ago.  It's wild, really, I don't know what else more there is to do but ride it out and hope for the best? 

I've served on a few hiring committees over the past year. We are a professional services/tech type that pays competitively in the Boston area. I don't know that it's been terrible for us, but HR certainly cites the market as putting pressure on our timeline and offers. Hard to say how it's affected the quality of applicant.

I have assumed that it's been, and continues to be, far worse at the low-wage end of the spectrum like mGrowOld's example, but it's interesting to hear the other white collar examples. I sympathize with Champeen's hesitant take, but I think it's unlikely to completely flip back to the way things were in any near future. 

I switched States, 3 years ago, though, as the engineering market in Michigan is large, but saturated, with engineering grads standing in line to get in.  Took a job in Texas to be near family. They eliminated my work travel, doubled my pay, reduced my workload, and the cost of living is comparable to lower than it was. 

It's been nuts...I manage roughly 200 people from coast to coast and ~15% of those positions are open. Work with a specialized group of patient facing healthcare providers.

For us, the turnover rate isn't actually much higher (which is good). It's a bit higher, but the issue is it takes forever to fill positions. Open roles with signing bonuses and solid pay in big cities will get 1-2 applicants in 12 weeks when we would usually have roles filled in 3-6 weeks. 

We have people ghost us all the time for interviews. I'm talking licensed healthcare providers with masters degrees to doctor level just ghost us.

So yeah, for me the turnover has been a little more challenging than normal but filling roles has been something like I've never seen. 

I dunno, I recently switched jobs and it was by far my toughest job search yet. I don’t know if I could even get hired the next time.

But I also work IT and I’m middle aged, so I mean, if employers are just tossing resumes on prejudice and then whining about a labor shortage they can kiss my ass.

It's actually one of the main factors that has me considering moving back to the US. I'm massively qualified in multiple fields, but finding jobs in Canada as an American/dual citizen is like trying to find a fuck buddy at a nunnery. Xenophobia is real and a huge part of Canadian culture.

Anyone want to be a silent partner in a small cannabis grow/concentrate/seed company?

My company runs talent acquisition software and it has been a crazy time to be in the space.  We're trying to make everything run more efficiently even before this- but almost every company we talk to mentions the same things.  Can't retain talent, tons of ghosting on interviews, etc.

I think remote working has opened people up to the idea of changing jobs. Do you want to move or have a longer commute switching jobs? No, but if your commute is still walking down the hall to your office…

@flexUM, please describe 'ghosting' an interview?  is that a no-show for an appointment? 

interesting thread.  demographics rapidly changing.  

As an executive level employee, I am directly involved in hiring and yea. It sucks. Big time. I have two positions open, both entry level (B.S. with no experience) and have gotten 3 decent candidates in 3 weeks. A year and a half ago I was getting 30+ decent applicants a week for the same position.

Also, as an executive level employee, I get reached out to all the time via linked in to chat with recruiters about jobs. Like a couple times a week. Have had job offers after a single phone call with the company. Too bad for them I am very well taken care of and the housing market has gotten so ridiculous it's close to impossible to pull me from my current position.

Like many I was laid off at the onset of the pandemic. I patched together a living waiting for my old job to come back. When it became apparent it wasn't going to, I started looking around last fall. It had been awhile. I was thinking "do people still write a cover letter anymore?" I felt old and passed by. The first people I contacted brought me in for an interview. After the second interview I was offered the job and a promotion before I even accepted. It's a weird economy out there.

I switched jobs last summer after getting my MBA. Consulting firms had 2nd rounds of hiring cycles because they anticipated a downturn that never came. Now, there's more work than people to go around and recruiting sends out emails from time to time reminding people to refer their friends to help fill in the gaps.

That being said, what I hired into is not at all what I thought it was going to be. My wife is pregnant so I'm going to hold out through delivery, take my paternity leave, and then start looking elsewhere unless something changes. If the market is as hot as it appears, not much sense in holding onto a job you don't really find fulfilling if you can reasonably find another one.

Work for a fairly large defense contractor, and we are having significant issues filling slots.  On a blue collar level I cannot get  home improvement contractors to come out and take jobs.  They just do not have the workers to take on more business.  We may have permanently damaged our employment structure.

Engineering Field.

We've been struggling for years to find Millennials. Can't find anyone with 5-15 years of experience. We've been able to hire grey hairs and fresh out of college kids, but nothing in between. 

Things have only gotten worse in the last 18 months. We were able to get through the big shutdown in the summer of 2020. We're overloaded with work, but we struggle to find quality people. Even the 0-2 years experience resumes we get are mostly garbage.

@ypsituckyboy.

There has been little change in the types of salaries that the high end technical sales and engineering people command.  I'm in orthopedics, so sales folks are expected to make ~$500k including bonus and commission.  If you find a good sales rep, paying them that much is worth it.

What has changed, is the type of compensation the lower end folks or back-end functions command, which is connected to the "great resignation" movement.  They are asking for ~50% above what is traditionally paid.  At first, we were like "WTF!", but then businesses started to pop-up that offered those back-end services at a time and materials rate (think Manpower), where we actually save money by not hiring someone full-time.  Therefore, I think the "great resignation" will likely not have lasting positive impact to lower-end jobs.

But to answer your question directly, if you are happy with what you are doing, "chasing income" can backfire, even when considering crazy inflation here in the US.  My wife did that, she left a job she loved to get a 40% increase in pay, but hated the new job.  She was so stressed and it was a big strain on the marriage.  She went back to the original job, much happier.

I manage software developers based in the US.  Our company recently got purchased and all of its developers are in India.  The US workers don't want to go back to the office and just want to work remotely so the company is considering shutting all offices and having no local presence anywhere in the US.

This leads me to believe we are headed towards some CFO asking:  "If they are working remotely already why not just have India do it for 1/3 the cost?"

I changed job right when the pandemic hit and have watched my company triple in size since, and in general hiring has been a mixed bag.  We're remote-first and will be so moving forward for the foreseeable future so that's different than other places I've been.  I think the remote-first approach has helped to attract more talent than the regional basis we used early on, but it's also created some headaches with trying to figure out who is going to be a good fit because people are just rolling out of bed and into their job and they aren't as attached to the the company's work.  I don't think you need to "love" your job or trust your employer beyond making sure the checks clear every 2 weeks, but I also think there are people who change jobs who maybe just like to work from home and don't quite realize that does mean you still have to, you know, "work" and didn't realize having to be in an office implicitly kept you on task.  They've struggled without that structure.

I have noticed that pay + benefits has ticked up to be more consistent across a lot of industries.  For a long time employers enjoyed somewhat of a monopoly over benefits and now they have to compete for employees in ways they didn't before and it's showing.  And I've been lucky with younger kids that my employer (and to be fair, most I've worked at recently) are flexible with those responsibilities at home.

But overall, I think people feeling comfortable with asking for more and getting reasonable responses from employers and knowing they have options is a net positive.

Champeen, that's the calculus you have to do in your head. There will be a recession, it's inevitable. Anyone who thinks this is permanent hasn't cracked a history book.

When that recession comes, companies will do what they have to do to reduce headcount and dollars. If you make yourself low hanging fruit, well, that's easy $ and headcount both.

That being said. This hasn't happened since the 80s, or perhaps the 50s even. If you aren't comfortable wage-wise, and your skillset is in demand, you'd be foolish to pass up the free money.

I'm just glad I'm comfortable with what I make and what I do.

It is REALLY hard to find people right now.  Speaking for my firm and my team it has forced a little bit of a widening of the scope as to who gets offers, but what I am finding, right now at least, is that the people we have been nervous about extending offers to have proven out the reasons why we were nervous about them.  From not being able to pass certification tests in the software we work with to being complete disasters in terms of communication with clients. 

I develop people as best I can(and I put a lot of effort into that) but there are times when you realize there is only so much you can do.  Hopefully labor markets unsnarl and adjust, but I fear the lesson that a lot of employers are learning is:

1) I can live with certain job requisitions being open and can even close them down lessening opportunity and

2) It's easier and cheaper to not hire in the first place than take on someone you are not sure of because you're desperate.  

Switched companies this past Fall.  My previous employer didn't hold true to the letter of agreement we had signed.  They actually moved the goalposts saying I'd have to relocate from Montana to Denver for any kind of promotion.   New employer is allowing me (and all engineering/management) to work remotely plus travel to work sites as needed.  Much better life/work balance and benefits.  

My clients need some of these jobs so they can pay their fees.

As a couple of people have noted about the lack of qualified candidates, I do think we're starting to see a bit of a pushback to what I saw years ago where "entry-level" jobs required years of experience and weren't really entry level but the market allowed employers to require more.  At least in tech I remember being told I needed 2-3 years more to reach for a senior/staff role when I've now seen people with 2-3 years less experience get those jobs (and I think the people now are appropriately experienced for those roles).

Literally starting a new job on Monday, 40% pay increase. Moving into a field I wanted to be in more and leaving a job with very little future potential. Took me a while to land it, but I cannot see myself regretting it at all.

Also happy to leave the WFH environment and go back into the office setting to have a physical separation of work/life. 30 min commute each way is a cost I can live with.

@ mGrowOld

Though I haven't eaten a BigMac in over 25 yrs I'm betting that Schmecky D's didn't raise the price of them 50% in that same span?

it seems that people are able to job hop to get better pay - it isn't a resignation, but an improvement - people getting away from bad pay, bad bosses, etc. with more options - especially at the lower end of the pay scale

also, companies forcing return to office are losing employees to companies allowing WFH

we also had 1M plus people die from covid

at the end of the day, it is an employees market right now and employers not listening to their needs will not get their jobs filled

I haven't switched jobs in a bit so I don't have much to opine in regards to OP, but I'm curious - WindyCityBlue and Monocle Smile, are you guys in the manufacturing sector of medical and aerospace?

I eat Big Macs.

The price of a Big Mac meal is 8.99.  8 freaking 99.

I still get it.

@XM yup meaning just total no shows. I've never seen anything like it before. We've also had people leave for less or no money with one recent exit interview saying "my manager is amazing and the training was great but screw it"

By far and away though my biggest issue is finding people, much more so than turnover issues or resignations. 

My wife was working for a large (I won't call it a top) university, but a lack of upward mobility and an archaic reward system caused her to leave. A few years ago, the idea of leaping without a job was unthinkable. But now, it's a sellers market.

Finding people is my #1 problem.  Job candidates want insane money, disappear after contact, don't show for interviews or even disappear after receiving a written job offer.  For temp contract workers we had to pay hourly rates that aren't sustainable but we need bodies to run machines.  I also pay bonuses for attendance which is a huge problem for new hire and temp workers.  Most temp workers call off within 3 days and no show within a week.  I've never seen anything like this.

I am also looking in to low cost robots to reduce this headache.  Our company treats people well and is low stress fwiw.

I've found a lot of the jobs people are "hiring" for are bullshit.  The pay is terrible, or it's part time (we guarantee you 17 whole hours a week!!!), they want some ridiculous qualifications for the job, etc.  

The ISM services release (out today) includes commentary from supply managers.  Here's one:

• “Staffing shortages, supply chain disruptions and rising inflation continue to impact the world economy. Companies are struggling to hire direct employees and non-employee labor because wages continue to increase for both. The Great Resignation is real: Employees, contractors and consultants continue to quit their jobs and engagements for opportunities that pay more and have more flexible work options. Millions of light industrial jobs remain open in the U.S., with limited interest from job seekers. Severe labor shortages are expected well into 2022. Corporations need to increase wages and salaries to attract talent and get work done. Faster wage growth is expected to lead to increased inflation.” [Professional, Scientific & Technical Services]

https://www.ismworld.org/supply-management-news-and-reports/reports/ism-report-on-business/services/february/

The best story of the summer came from McDonalds #2.  They, like all companies that rely on teenagers as the backbone of their labor force, had severe turnover issues. 

Does McDonalds , or any fast food chain, really rely on teenagers for their labor? All of my local McDonalds seem to be staffed by either 20-somethings or 50+ year old ladies. I feel like the fast food teenager thing is anachronistic

A cursory internet search seems to confirm my anecdotal experience...

"There's a stereotype that most fast food employees are teens just looking to make pocket money or to save up for college. If that were the case, maybe the low pay wouldn't be such an issue. But in fact, more than 40 percent of the fast food industry's workforce is made up of people 25 years or older, with the average age hovering around 29 years old"

In any case, yes it is extremely hard to hire people right now. A lot of people retired, or were out of work and had time to contemplate what they wanted to do with their life. Many folks had the time to collect themselves and realize they didn't want to continue in the same grind they were doing.

Lots of people have many options, and the balance of power has shifted considerably to the worker rather than the employer.

My seasonal worker positions only had about 20% of the applicants as last year, despite a $5/hr pay increase. And I've had several folks turn down offers  because they felt they could get a higher paying job 

I'm finding it odd, as someone looking for work. I'm a middle aged guy with great experience, but in a niche field doing a niche thing and I just moved back to the US so my network is almost zero. 

My industry (design/construction) is hiring with gusto but it seems like they're hiring either very junior people or very senior people. I have experience at very high levels, but since I have an "unusual" profile and a few holes that are seen as fundamental (no I don't know the software that well anymore, I was paid too highly to be a 3D modeling monkey, no I don't know US/your state's code in detail) I'm finding it difficult to get past bean counting HR people who see that I don't check all the boxes.

I kind of regret quitting my job and moving back to the states, the international life was treating me well, but people in my family are gettin old and I need to start taking retirement seriously. Anyway, Covid kinda made the decision for me.

WindyCityBlue had to make multiple posts about his ability to hire scabs to replace his people.

I keed, I keed.

If you're north of 60, the job market ain't that great unless you've got up-to-the minute technical skills, especially if you're interviewing for jobs with educational institutions. Anybody who says age discrimination isn't a thing is either naive or lying.

I have one theory as to why there seems to be fewer applicants, and it is simply few people in the workforce.  For example a semi normal family of 4 where both mom and dad work out of the house, kids are say middle school age.  Pandemic hits Mom is laid off from her job Dad now works from home.  Mom and Dad make adjustments to their budget and see they can live off of Dad's salary and still do all the things they want.  So when things start to open back up and Mom is offered her job back she says no thank you.  

Boom 1 more open position and one less person willing to fill it.  Now do that across the middle class and say if even 25% of the dual income households realize they can survive on a single income and that family quality of life is better, then you have a huge number of jobs that are needing people and at the same time a huge number of people who are for all reasonable discussion have left the workforce.  

Those 2 things can lead to lower unemployment numbers because fewer people are looking for work and at the same time create upward pressure on both salaries and demand for quality staffing.  If you watch eventually companies are going to look at their staffing and start to simply not fill those spots if they cannot get someone to hire. What is normally an artifact of a recession will occur even as wages go up.

Good topic! Very hard to find the right persons at all levels for now.

Hiring in service and manufacturing plant areas has never been harder. Many will interview only to fulfill unemployment requirements that they are actively looking for work. Passing drug tests and showing up regularly on time is another dimension too. We need more vocational training in high schools and less of an emphasis on debt binding college degrees that provide few job skills.

During the pandemic, many were just comfortable working at home with no commute and with expensive child care, gas going to record highs, many will be forced to give up their jobs or not go back into the office for as long as they can. Sadly we see more women dropping out of the workplace or not applying for jobs.

I've seen many middle aged professional workers have done well in equities based savings the past five years and haven't spent much in travel/commuting/vacations etc. Relatively high savings, and uncertainty of where this world is headed, means less motivation to start work life changes, or just dropping out of the work place.

The tech area has many younger workers who are immigrants or students from other countries. Not exactly a welcoming environment lately. Many going back to their homeland when their visas expire.

My son is a military academy grad and spent 5 years on active duty in a very technical and classified area.  You would think he was a Heisman-winning QB.  He has a good job that he likes, but people are coming at him with ridiculous (to me) offers.

He is not the lone ranger in this - former military service officers are in very high demand.