OT: Florida State calls emergency BOT meeting
This would be the first step in possibly leaving the ACC.
December 21st, 2023 at 2:56 PM ^
The Big Ten footprint is already East to West through the middle to northern parts of the country. Pushing that Big Ten footprint south, right into the heart of SEC territory I am sure is something which Fox would be very interested in doing. It's not as though Florida State would not make for some good television match ups. So yeah, I think the Big Ten (read Fox) would definitely kick the tires and run the numbers of Florida State joining the Big Ten.
December 21st, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
If they plan on joining the B1G, I hope they're aware they can't buy recruits food; specifically burgers.
/s
December 21st, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
They’ll just go crazy and get subs instead.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
Love your comment, but you're making me miss Coach Beilein even more!
December 21st, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
Crab legs
December 21st, 2023 at 11:46 AM ^
Crab legs are free.
December 21st, 2023 at 4:46 PM ^
Didn't someone at Alabama just get arrested for this?
December 21st, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
Please don't involve Pizza Bob's in this discussion. I hate to say this - BUT - often times, coaches will tour the campus with prospects and their families. They'll stroll up State Street from Schembechler Hall on a Saturday morning. And - before / after - they may stop into Pizza Bob's for a shake.
In fact, I strongly recommend that people visiting Ann Arbor for a campus visit - or - just a game weekend - visit Pizza Bob's for a shake.
Hopefully, revealing this won't result in additional NCAA scrutiny. After all, $ 800K for Arch Manning's OV to Texas is fine - but, a cheeseburger / shake - it's not notably different from reckless endangerment - OH, the Humanity.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:41 AM ^
I thought Arch's visit weekend cost $236K, but the last couple of months everyone has been saying $800K. Where did this larger number come from?
December 21st, 2023 at 2:14 PM ^
The age old question, what kind of party can I throw if I have an extra half mil in the budget…? I was just contemplating this same issue for my family Christmas party.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^
not just a 'shake', but a coffee/chocolate chip shake. and a sister ann with meat. on wheat.
game over, recruitment done, kid commits.
December 21st, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
Harbaugh literally bought some hungry kids some food. Warde should be playing Jean Valjean to Pettiti's Javer.
December 21st, 2023 at 3:18 PM ^
Harbaugh literally did not. The burgers were comp'ed and Harbaugh just paid for his own and the tip that the comp'ed burgers would have owed/
December 21st, 2023 at 2:40 PM ^
"Oh, the humanity."
Is the Hindenburg exploding again?
December 21st, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
Subs? You mean hoagies?
December 21st, 2023 at 2:31 PM ^
I could go for some Spots...
December 21st, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
Pretty sure you can do anything you want (including buy recruits) as long as you don't employ a Harbaugh.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
Ok, ACC, here's the deal: we will trade you Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, and Michigan State for Florida State, Duke, and North Carolina. We will understand if you cut Michigan State after the deal is complete.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
Two things:
- The biggest question here is how FSU could leave the ACC. The exit fees, as I understand them, make this essentially financially impossible. (I'm a lawyer and I am somewhat skeptical that those fees are enforceable, but hardly my area of expertise.)
- It doesn't seem like FSU being in the ACC was the problem? The "problem" was their QB1 going down. Frankly, I think that being king of the small conference is a boon if you want to keep making the playoff, because you're going to have a much tougher time coming up with a pretty record in the Power 2
December 21st, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
I'm an accountant - Here's what you do.
FSU should advise the ACC to Debit "Bad debt expense" or "Revenue" if the revenue was recognized previously. Then, Credit "Accounts receivable"
Bingo Bango - exit fee handled.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
I, uh, don't think the ACC will take payment in ARs. I doubt they have the cash on hand to cut the check.
December 21st, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
So the ACC knows what a write off is, and they’re the ones writing it off?
December 21st, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
**** and don't double record... that is no good
December 21st, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^
If the exit fees were not enforceable then FSU would probably have left the ACC by now - they have been getting far below their "market price" in tv revenue for years now... and they have no chance to renegotiate until 2036.
The CFP snub due to losing a QB (and getting no significant support from the ACC leadership) was just the cherry on top.
December 21st, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
Some exit fee is for sure enforceable. TL;DR: American contract law doesn't favor "penalties." If you breach a contract, you have to pay the other person based on how much your breach hurt them. It can't be a number way above that. I think the exit fee has no connection to economic reality and is purely meant to punish schools that leave, so I think it's largely unenforcable.
Litigating is expensive, time-consuming (it may be years before this resolves after appeals, etc), and makes the rest of the relationship between the parties very hard. There is a lot of day-to-day stuff that goes on between the schools that would grind almost to a halt (or at least require a lot of legal counsel) in event of a suit. There's also the question of how the ACC would operate - look at how OSU/WSU are treating their former friends. The rest of the ACC might take actions pretty adverse to FSU in response to a suit. ESPN might also be able to call a default on the ACC Network contract and re-negotiate it or extract penalties in the event of a lawsuit.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
Your point #2 hits the mark. It leads me to a few "sub thoughts" - and, it touches on the QB situation for FSU.
First - if Jordan Travis wasn't injured - would FSU be "in" the CFP Playoff? I think the answer would be yes - and, IMO - that would have resulted in Bama / SEC being on the outside looking in.
Second - if Rodemaker hadn't been injured and played in the ACC CCG with a solid performance - then, again - the CFP Selection Committee might have had a decision to make.
It seems to me the CFP Selection Committee used injury to justify their ranking and leaving FSU on the outside looking in. A very unfortunate situation for the Seminoles.
As others note - where would FSU go? Independent?
December 21st, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
the CFP Selection Committee used injury to justify their ranking and leaving FSU on the outside looking in
The above is obviously true. But I believe if their QB hadn't been hurt, they still wouldn't be in the cfp. The committee would have found another reason to put Bama in.
December 21st, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
This was brought to you by the committee that came to this conclusion.
FSU will be playing their backup in the postseason
-FSU #4 Texas #7
FSU will be playing their backup in the postseason PLUS both teams beat a team ranked in the teens
-Texas #3 FSU #5
Honestly what are we even doing?
December 21st, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
Your point #2 hits the mark. It leads me to a few "sub thoughts" - and, it touches on the QB situation for FSU.
First - if Jordan Travis wasn't injured - would FSU be "in" the CFP Playoff? I think the answer would be yes - and, IMO - that would have resulted in Bama / SEC being on the outside looking in.
Second - if Rodemaker hadn't been injured and played in the ACC CCG with a solid performance - then, again - the CFP Selection Committee might have had a decision to make.
It seems to me the CFP Selection Committee used injury to justify their ranking and leaving FSU on the outside looking in. A very unfortunate situation for the Seminoles.
As others note - where would FSU go? Independent?
December 21st, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
Wasnt that same QB injured when this happened?
FSU #4
Texas #7
Or did he get injured during the conference championship?
December 21st, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
No the problem was that an SEC team would have been left out should FSU make it. It wouldn't matter which conference we're talking about here. The committee would have kicked Michigan or Washington, undefeated and all, to get Alabama in. If Alabama lost to Auburn, they would still be in. The injury to FSU's QB was a convenient excuse.
December 21st, 2023 at 2:19 PM ^
I honestly think an Auburn loss wouldve had Georgia in no matter what. I mean didnt they have a better resume than Texas to be honest? And if we are going to give each other the reach around on eye test Georgia can give all the talking heads on ESPN and Fox all the ammo they need.
December 21st, 2023 at 12:44 PM ^
I thought the exit fee was something like $120 million. If, and its a big if, they can join the SEC or Big 10 and get a full share, their TV money would go from around $40 million per year to $80 million per year. Stay with the ACC and get half the money Big 10/SEC teams get though 2036, or join the Big 10/SEC and get to break even in three years seems like an easy choice.
December 21st, 2023 at 1:54 PM ^
And if $120 million is too rich for FSU, just go halvesies with Jimbo Fisher and split the BIG or SEC tv money until Jimbo is paid off with some juice thrown in for his troubles. Easy peasy.
December 21st, 2023 at 2:53 PM ^
I had heard that Jimbo's "package" which is about $ 75M, was associated with (my understanding) of the A&M Athletic Department operating as a non-profit. Which, would be an absolute travesty from a tax reporting standpoint.
December 21st, 2023 at 3:24 PM ^
It doesn't seem like FSU being in the ACC was the problem? The "problem" was their QB1 going down.
The problem was that Alabama beat Georgia. The CFP committee was fine including FSU (as evidenced by the fact that they still had FSU #4 until the Georgia-Alabama game) but, when they realized that the numbers said there should be no SEC team in the playoffs, they panicked and added Alabama anyway. But they then had to include Texas, because Texas beat Alabama in the regular season. FSU got left out as a result of the need to justify Alabama going from #8 to #4 Because Reasons.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
Who doesn't love getting called into an emergency meeting at 9 AM, on a Friday, 3 days before Christmas?
There are going to be A LOT of Trustees who won't have their Zoom cameras on for this one.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
Too little, too late
December 21st, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
Can someone please explain to me how FSU thinks the ACC screwed them over with their CFP situation?
Why in the ever-loving-hell would the ACC sabotage a chance for one of its premiere teams to make the CFP? I have to believe the ACC Commissioner is almost as P.O.'d about the situation as FSU is. What does the ACC stand to gain from sabotaging FSU a few weeks ago? How is that anything other than a net negative action for them?
I'm not really sure how being in the B1G or SEC really changes their fortunes from what happened a few weeks ago, aside from the fact that they're just making more money. And if this is all that this is about (wanting more money than they're going to make in the ACC), then so be it, I get that, but they're using what happened two weeks ago as an excuse/cover and I'm not really sure I buy that as viable.
Also, have you figured out a way to get out of that GoR? My understanding is lawyers were pouring over that thing all summer. Without getting more schools to want out of the ACC than there already were (and schools like Wake, Pitt, Syracuse, Ga Tech and BC will NEVER agree to leave because no one else will want them), there was no feasible way of getting out of it. Not without bankrupting your Athletic Dept several times over with whatever buy-out you'd owe.
I guess I'm just one of those folks who while I do believe FSU got screwed, I'm not entirely sure the committee didn't get it right. FSU took a nosedive as a team after Travis went out, and Alabama knocked off the #1 team in the country. For those saying "Well OSU got in with a third string QB," OSU also beat a top-15 Wisconsin team 59-0 in the BTCG.
They proved they had no drop-off in their level of play. FSU did.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
The CFP is tangential to all of this. Shoot, if this happened a year later, FSU wouldn't mind the #5 seed at all - that's an extra home game and millions of dollars more money for the school and the Tallahassee economy!
It's a gambit by FSU to try to obtain (someone could also use the verb "extort", which wouldn't be entirely wrong) a higher share of $$$ from the ACC.
I think it'll work. The thing is, Clemson's going to want the same thing.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Why would it work? What leverage does FSU have? Until it can credibly go away, the other schools won't give an inch.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:52 AM ^
I acknowledge it's a gambit. It's a high-stakes fear-driven gambit, FSU insinuating that they have legitimate legal and conference options (even if they really don't).
A lot of ACC schools fear being the next WSU/OSU. And FSU (and Clemson, who is likely "rooting" for FSU on this one) knows that.
----
I play a decent amount of chess - I've seen this scenario many times: I'm playing well, playing a logiically sound game and then my opponent starts throwing an attack out there. I see his rating is higher than mine, I get nervous, I start reacting instead of sticking to my plan, and I lose in short order. Fear-based gambits frequently work.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:52 AM ^
That's exactly why I'm not sure FSU has much of a leg to stand on right now as far as getting out of the ACC.
The fact of the matter is that they don't have enough schools to want out of the GoR along with them. If they did, this would've been settled over the summer when FSU and those 5-6 other schools got together to discuss finding a way out of it.
Why in the hell would schools like BC, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, or Ga Tech agree to dissolve the conference? No one is going to want them when the GoR is done anyway, so those schools are going to absolutely dig their heels in for the next decade and tell schools like FSU and Clemson to f**k off. They know their days are numbered, so they're going to ride the ACC revenue train as long as they possibly can. Which is exactly what I would do, if I were them.
Unless FSU wants to pay what I'm assuming would be a massively irresponsible financial buy-out to get out of the GoR, I don't know what its options are.
And even if they get out, have the B1G or SEC even said they'd be extending an invite?
December 21st, 2023 at 3:58 PM ^
You’re right about everything except the final sentence. Of course one of the 2 leagues would take them.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:31 AM ^
I agree with your point on the ACC and disagree on the committee's choice but don't see the point of litigating it.
FSU's been open that they think they don't make enough cash in the ACC. They think they should be making as much as their "peer" institutions. They clock the shortfall at $30mm annually. (Source.) They want the ACC to pay them more than other ACC schools so they can be made whole. The ACC caved a little bit - postseason payouts aren't distributed equally, but the main TV contract is paid out pro rata to everyone. (Source.)
I think all this noise has more to do with $ than anything else.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:52 AM ^
You are correct. Most (all?) noise has more to do with $ than anything else.
December 21st, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
"Why in the ever-loving-hell would the ACC sabotage a chance for one of its premiere teams to make the CFP? I have to believe the ACC Commissioner is almost as P.O.'d about the situation as FSU is. What does the ACC stand to gain from sabotaging FSU a few weeks ago? How is that anything other than a net negative action for them?"
This paragraph seems disingenuous. WTH did the B1G do to Michigan less than 24 hours before the PSU game? How many B1G member institutions were involved in that decision (hint: all but one)? How did that decision benefit the B1G's playoff chances?
I don't think for a minute that the ACC did anything to hurt FSU's chances. But it didn't help them by being the ACC instead of the SEC or B1G, either.
I also think that FSU is acting unreasonably, here. Getting into the 12-team playoff as the ACC Champ, or even runner-up, is going to be hella easier and more consistent than being the 3rd, 4th, or 5th place team in the B1G or SEC.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
The ACC grant of rights runs until 2036.
If the speculation is that the cost of FSU leaving the ACC would be having to pay the ACC 120 million bucks, the counter-argument is that over the next ten years the difference between SEC or B1G revenue would be 300 million bucks.
Even if they had to take a lesser amount for a few years, FSU would be lots of dollars ahead to pay the money if necessary, and join the SEC or B1G.
If they can raise the dough - a big if, no doubt - it makes sense for them to split.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
Or they have to get (7) or (9) members to dissolve the league.
December 21st, 2023 at 12:03 PM ^
The grant of rights means, as far as I can tell, that the ACC gets the TV revenue for any FSU home game until 2036. If that’s the case, they bring (almost) zero value to the B10 or SEC for 13 years. One would have to be very forward thinking to accept them now.
If that’s the case, the B1G and SEC would be foolish to admit them even at a seriously discounted rate. A lot can happen in 13 years. It’s better for the B1G and SEC to keep a competitor in a sub-standard conference and keep them down, then bring them in to compete on a level playing field with current membership while TV subsidizes the ACC for every FSU home game.