OT - First doses of Pfizer vaccine could arrive in MI by mid-Dec
I know that we are still technically in no-OT season, but this is some very welcome news. The TL;DR version:
- Michigan likely to receive "hundreds of thousands" of vaccine doses starting in mid-December
- Health care employees, other first responders, and residents of long-term care facilities will get them first
- Moderna is about a month behind Pfizer with its vaccine.
I can't think of a better Christmas gift to end 2020.
November 26th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
Those were my exact concerns. But I have been getting info (I work in ID) from infectious disease doctors, and most are saying they aren’t concerned about the safety, and are recommending it. My personal doctor is really pushing it too.. but giving good arguments “FOR” getting it.
I already posted, so I won’t babble any more...But I think your concerns are valid, and shared by many. We just need to hear from the experts; not the media telling us what to believe, and get to our own point of comfort.
November 26th, 2020 at 8:30 PM ^
Excellent questions MgoBlueGoldenState and mgobrewmom. The presence of the mRNA will be relatively transient, like, within a day or two. RNA is a pretty unstable molecule (which is why shows like CSI are always checking for DNA, there ain’t any RNA left). Your cells are routinely degrading their own mRNA around the clock, and even if they weren’t, mRNA cannot replicate, so it would just fall apart at body temp.
With regards to your body developing autoimmunity, that is extremely unlikely, here’s why. Your cells are constantly putting out “samples” of proteins for circulating white blood cells to monitor. If they’re boring regular proteins, it raises no red flags and your Tcells go on their merry way. If your Tcells are like, “WTF is THIS protein?!?! Is this a coronavirus spike protein?!?!” Then it sounds the alarm and your immune system will be on high alert for expression of that protein, prepared and primed for a potential infection. But those cells aren’t mad at your own cells, they’re like, “yo, thanks for the tip, now we’re on the lookout”.
Things you might hear that are untrue:
1. mRNA can cause mutations in your DNA or cancer. Nope, the mRNA is incapable of going backwards and will have no effect on your dna.
2. These vaccines have been “rushed”. Also nope, they’re breaking records because with new technology, they can be designed and developed much quicker and with guaranteed payment from the government, companies don’t have to assume the risk of early ramped up production. The safety/effectiveness process has stayed essentially the same.
3. You can catch COVID from the vaccines. Nope, the mRNA codes for a single protein, it cannot form a virus any more than eating a hamburger would allow you to poop out a whole cow (I’m quite proud of this analogy).
4. I’ve never gotten the flu shot and I’ve never gotten sick, so I’m not getting this shot. This has come up a lot on this thread, and makes very little sense to me. It’s like saying I don’t wear seatbelts because I’ve never been in an accident. To anyone who thinks this way, your immune system isn’t special, you’ve just been lucky (and largely due to factors outside of your control). I recognize there are legitimate concerns out there for these COVID vaccines, but “I don’t get flu shots and I’m fine so I’m not getting this” is not a scientific or well reasoned concern (sorry about your feelings if anybody who thinks that way reads this).
ps. This should’ve been a diary! Hope it helps some and jives with the research you’ve done on your own. Don’t believe everything ya read online, even from well intentioned fellow Michigan fans :)
November 26th, 2020 at 10:42 AM ^
Our great governor can’t even fix the damn roads. I’m sure this will be a flop as well.
November 26th, 2020 at 12:18 PM ^
You can blame engler for wrecking Michigan's taxation system in the 90's.
November 26th, 2020 at 11:38 PM ^
Have you traveled around the state the last few months? Road construction everywhere.
Nice try though.
November 26th, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
Thats fitting! Thank God for Donald John Trummmmmmmmmmp!
November 26th, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^
Put me on the list of people who won't be getting the vaccine. Also, I've yet to meet an RN colleague who works side-by-side with me for 12 hours at a time providing direct care to Covid patients who is going to get the vaccine either. And no, I'm not an anti-vaxxer.
November 26th, 2020 at 7:09 PM ^
Can you elaborate? I’ve had the opposite experience, I’ve yet to meet a person in healthcare who works side by side with caring for COVID patients who would pass on the vaccine, so I’m really curious.
November 26th, 2020 at 9:48 PM ^
If people that you know in healthcare have seen people get Guillain-Barre after a vaccine that will usually make them think twice. It happens a lot more than you may know. I think many in health care don't want to get the first wave of this vaccine, that's all. They don't want to be the guinea pigs. Larger testing and truly seeing the effects are important to a lot of people.
November 26th, 2020 at 10:48 PM ^
Thanks for the info. The data I’ve seen is post-vaccination GBS occurs in about 1:1,000,000 vaccines (at least for influenza). Do you have other data? I’d love to be further educated. Maybe I’m a bit sheltered being in academic medicine, but gosh, I haven’t heard any concerns like you mention and I sure as heck have not heard a doc saying they don’t want to be a “guinea pig”.
Can you clarify what you mean by “truly seeing the effects”? What’s a good window of observation that’d help you to feel more comfortable?
November 27th, 2020 at 12:06 PM ^
My wife and my sister work at actual hospitals. I am hearing this from them directly. Gosh, I know it's tough to think not everyone is on board with getting this right away. This is exactly what I am hearing. My wife sees GBS very often every year. No data needed as she sees it directly and works with them directly. It's first hand experience.
Window: 6 months to a year after first doses go out to the masses to see the true effects (if its effective and side effects) overall. Some want it and some don't, it's not an all in thing at all.
I personally don't care if you or anyone else get the shot. There would be no judgement either way. I certainly can understand why one would want to especially if you or others have other health issues. It's your choice. I am simply stating what I think and what I hear. Just because you are hearing different things in your "academic" environment doesn't mean others don't think differently elsewhere.
November 27th, 2020 at 1:27 PM ^
Oh sure, clearly people have different opinions and I am asking because I’m interested. I will caution while making your decision that “personal experience” doesn’t equate with data, though I understand how people might feel that way. And that is not to disparage your family members’ personal experience. I tell people all the time that their kid has cancer, but that’s my job. That doesn’t mean that Burkitt’s lymphoma is more than a one in a million occurrence just because I see cases of it four times a year. If you were to walk onto the ward and think, “holy crap, look at all the bald kids, cancer is everywhere”, it might seem that way, but my work experience doesn’t extrapolate to the broader world. Also, you don’t have to put academic in quotation marks ;)
November 27th, 2020 at 5:01 PM ^
I understand your point. I do. It just seemed you were also throwing in some sarcasm. It's a big issue and I get it. Sometimes it's hard for people to make these decisions. I think the newness of this particular vaccine is what could and is holding people back.
I have been around healthcare all my life to be honest. My mom was an RN for 37 years as well and as I said my sister is now an RN. I get where you are coming from. It's all a bit crazy and it's never fun to tell a family member bad news. The good news is most that get Covid-19 get over it just fine so far and if the vaccine proves itself I certainly would be happy about that. I mean if someone came to you and said ... you have cancer but your form of cancer has a 97% chance success rate of beating it, that would be some good news overall I would think. I think all of what I have been saying here is, that the % shows a very great likely hood of someone being ok. If the vaccine works (even if people wait a bit because of being a bit worried) that would just be the icing on the cake and substantially put this thing in its place so we can get back to normal.
I appreciate your point of view. I am always willing to learn and look at both sides.
November 28th, 2020 at 8:13 AM ^
Always interested in having a civil discourse on important stuff. Actually didn’t mean any sarcasm by the academic medicine reference. It was an honest assessment of my potential biases. Having been trained in and exclusively worked in university based academic centers, there’s the very real possibility that the other folks who work along side me aren’t necessarily representative of healthcare at large. I enroll patients on early phase clinical trials all the time, so I’m probably more comfortable than most around the concept. Heck, during my training, I took care of a bunch of patients who were some of the very first (and sometimes, the actual first) patients to receive a particular drug.
November 28th, 2020 at 11:47 AM ^
Stupid AF
November 26th, 2020 at 11:49 AM ^
Has it been determined which vax is superior ?
November 26th, 2020 at 1:48 PM ^
Lots of arm chair doctors on this post. You should have an accurate answer soon.
November 26th, 2020 at 7:12 PM ^
Not yet, the two earliest (Moderna and Pfizer) appear very similar in terms of efficacy. Functionally, I’m taking whatever of those two I can get first (it’ll probably be Pfizer as my hospital has the necessary cold freezer capacity required).
Sincerely,
A tenure track faculty member of a Big Ten med school with an MPH in hospital and molecular epidemiology and a BS in microbiology, both from Michigan. (Aka, sort of an armchair doctor).
November 26th, 2020 at 4:44 PM ^
It’s not possible to make a safe coronavirus vaccine. You’re crazy if you take it.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/side-effects-covid-…
Doing nothing is 99.4% effective.
November 26th, 2020 at 9:34 PM ^
Doing nothing is 99.4% effective.
Uh, no. That’s not what the statistics mean. As Sopwith explained, a vaccine that is 94.5% effective means you have that much less risk of becoming infected with the virus versus someone who did not get the vaccine.
In your statement, “doing nothing” means that, depending upon where you live and the frequency with which you interact with other people, how many and for how long, mask usage, etc., your risk of *infection* mainly comes down to luck and timing, but may be as high as 70% or more. Your odds of *dying* are also based on many factors, but increase as hospital resources (including beds, PPE, etc.) and personnel become more scarce.
November 27th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
You are a fucking idiot.
Vaccines work. Doing nothing does not.
November 26th, 2020 at 10:03 PM ^
Sweet. I’ll be getting one pretty soon then.