OT Bye Week: All-Harbaugh Era Team (2015-2022)
With a little bit of down time this bye week, I thought I'd explore what I would consider the 'All-Harbaugh Era" team in the form of the 2-deep. When doing this I found that I had to go as far as 4 deep for EDGE/DE because the amount of talent we have had there in 8 years probably stacks up with any program in the country in that time. The hardest group for me to come up with was QB. I know it is early in JJ's tenure as QB but I do think when we have seen him at his best, he is the best we've had in this 8 years. What would you guys think would be your team?
QB: JJ McCarthy; Jake Rudock
RB: Hassan Haskins/Blake Corum
FB: :( Ben Mason; Khalid Hill
WR: Nico Collins; Donovan Peoples-Jones
WR: Amara Darboh; Jehu Chesson
Slot: Ronnie Bell; Roman Wilson
TE: Jake Butt; Luke Schoonmaker
TE: Erick All; Sean McKeon
LT: John Runyan Jr., Mason Cole
LG: Ben Bredeson; Ben Braden
C: Cesar Ruiz; Olu Oluwatimi
RG: Michael Onwenu; Zak Zinter
RT: Jaylen Mayfield; Andrew Stueber;
DE: Aidan Hutchinson; Chase Winovich; Taco Charlton; Kwity Paye
DE: Rashan Gary; David Ojabo; Chris Wormley; Josh Uche; Mike Morris
DT: Maurice Hurst; Mazi Smith
DT: Ryan Glasgow; Willie Henry
LB: Devin Bush; Josh Ross
LB: Ben Gedeon; Mike McCray
VIPER/HYBRID SPACE PLAYER: Jabrill Peppers; Khaleke Hudson
CB: Jourdan Lewis; Ambry Thomas
CB: David Long; Lavert Hill
S: Dax Hill; Josh Metellus
S: Delano Hill; Brad Hawkins
K: Jake Moody; Kenny Allen
P: Brad Robbins; Will Hart
KR: AJ Henning; Giles Jackson
PR: Jabrill Peppers; Donovan Peoples-Jones
October 20th, 2022 at 9:54 AM ^
I don't know who the 2nd string QB is. I only remember Jake Ruddddddddddddock.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
As great as Jake was I would have Cade #2.
Big Ten Championship being a tie breaker.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:11 AM ^
I'll probably get slammed for this, but I think 2018 Shea is underrated. He probably deserves some mention here.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
I almost put him there, but perhaps the fear of insane backlash left me with the safer Rudock (or even ‘21 Cade). But Shea from Wisconsin-before OSU game was a very good QB.
October 20th, 2022 at 11:31 AM ^
O coordinating was far superior last year. Shea wouldve done well last year. Once Harbaugh realized speed in space wasnt happening we got a whole lot better.
October 20th, 2022 at 12:12 PM ^
Agree. Mineral King will always go down in my book as a little too maligned and a little underappreciated. Not perfect. But not nearly as bad as I think some people's memories will say.
October 20th, 2022 at 12:14 PM ^
I've always thought Shea > Rudock.
The biggest difference between them is expectations. Rudock transferred from Iowa after sort of losing that job and won 10 games one season after the Hoke debacle. Shea was the #1 QB in his class who was expected to take Michigan to the next level.
2015 Rudock. 3,017 yards. 20 TD / 9 INT.
2018 Shea. 2,600 yards. 22 TD / 7 INT.
2019 Shea. 3,061 yards. 23 TD / 8 INT.
Difference IMO was that Rudock was bad to start 2015. Fair to place a lot of the blame on him for the Utah loss and probably at least some of the MSU loss. He just finished so strong that people remember him for that.
October 20th, 2022 at 1:05 PM ^
Jake Rudock got to Michigan in the summer of 2015 when an entire team was adjusting to Harbaugh's system and rules. That was a tougher transition than when Patterson transferred to Ann Arbor; Patterson participated in spring practice and was a part of Harbaugh's fourth season, so everyone else was already used to his system (except, obviously, any freshmen or other transfers).
By Rudock's first start, he had spent about 4 weeks practicing with the team.
By Patterson's first start, he had been with the program for 8 months.
October 20th, 2022 at 2:16 PM ^
You are right. Shea entered a much better situation. But I wasn't necessarily grading them on a scale. Just on performance.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:52 AM ^
That's a fair tie-breaker. But I think Jake Rudock was a better passer (at least towards the end of the season) and I think Rudock with that offense would actually be slightly better. No disrespect to Cade, but Rudock was on FIRE towards the end of his career
October 20th, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
I'd put Jake at #2. Can't use a team award to tie-break an individual competition. Given the other guys on the field last year, I think Jake makes that team better than Cade does. Ruddddock was really good by the end of 2015
October 20th, 2022 at 12:03 PM ^
We could have a good thread discussion about the quarterbacks who have started during the Harbaugh regime. My take is as follows:
- JJ McCarthy
- Shea Patterson
- Jake Rudock
- Cade McNamara
- Wilton Speight
- Brandon Peters
- John O'Korn
- Joe Milton
Although the order from 2-4 is really up for debate.
October 20th, 2022 at 2:07 PM ^
will posture a retort, respectfully. I don't see how you have Cade as anything but number one for the games won. JJ may pass Cade, but shouldn't we weight accomplishment more than what we think CAN be accomplished?
October 20th, 2022 at 2:24 PM ^
Which QB would give us a better chance at winning? Between Cade and JJ, Harbaugh has already made the decision for us: It's JJ. So to me, JJ needs to be above Cade.
October 20th, 2022 at 4:37 PM ^
bonsai, that wasn't the question. It was who has been the best. JJ may be the best currently, but it is hard to argue that he has had the success Cade has. I am glad JJ is the QB, that is not the issue. At the end of this year, i hope my argument is no longer true.
October 20th, 2022 at 6:29 PM ^
Agreed. Cade is #1 until someone else wins a B1G and gets into the CFP. JJ could be that guy, and beating out that guy is a good start, but he isn't there yet.
October 21st, 2022 at 4:19 AM ^
Well Harbaugh has/had the option for both and chose JJ so…I think it’s pretty logical to assume he’s better than Cade. I love Cade and have always had his back but the fact is he didn’t win us a Big Ten title and CFP berth by himself and we all know that. He helped and did his best for sure and deserves respect for his accomplishments. JJ is just better and the coaching staff thinks so as well or he wouldn’t be our starting QB right now.
Edit: Okay who has been the best so far not will be. I would have to take Rudock. As others have said he was lights out in the second half of the season. Better than most anything we’ve seen at QB with Harbaugh. If it was a full season like that then no brainer.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:00 AM ^
All in all it looks pretty good. I think Chesson gets the start over Darboh. For maximum havoc I would put Winovich opposite Hutchison though it is probably a better balanced outfit with Gary in there.
Also, I know controversial, but I kind of feel like McNamara gets the start over McCarthy as of this exact date. Big Ten Title/CFP appearance > fancy stats as this point.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
Disagree. Darboh was better, particularly in 16.
October 20th, 2022 at 11:37 AM ^
There was not too much distance in between them. Darboh had more catches I believe, with some crucial grabs (which Chesson had as well), but drops against Iowa and OSU stick in my mind. Chesson also presents a threat at kick return but I guess that doesn't really count in this hypo.
October 20th, 2022 at 12:17 PM ^
Darboh = Much better hands (in my addled and feeble memory)
Both were great though. I like them as a pair. Darboh & Chesson, Calloway & McMurtry, Toomer & Hayes, Streets & Knight, Terrell & Walker, Arrington & Manningham and so on...
October 20th, 2022 at 1:41 PM ^
How could you forget Braylon and Avant, probably the best pair of any of them?
October 20th, 2022 at 3:54 PM ^
The fact Nico and DPJ weren’t among them still disappoints me
October 20th, 2022 at 6:53 PM ^
Our running game wouldn't be anything like it is, with Cade at QB right now. JJ is the reason our offense is clicking, specifically the threat of his legs.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
This is just a very good reminder of how good this year’s offense is just based on how many players from this year’s team would make that offensive depth chart.
The other takeaway is..holy crap, that 2018 defense was legit.
October 20th, 2022 at 11:37 AM ^
Until they allowed 62 points one afternoon in late November. At one point early in the 4th quarter, a long TD pass caused me to hurl my full beer across the living room in front of my fiance and mother. I spent the rest of the game pouting in the kitchen. Glad I sold that cursed house.
October 20th, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
Yeah...glad you sold it too. Should have done so sooner... :)
October 21st, 2022 at 8:38 AM ^
It was legit….up until it went to Columbus.
That defense had a ton of talent and plenty of guys who have made some hay in the league, but all I’m going to remember about that year’s defense is 62-39. And then giving up 52 points to Florida in the Peach Bowl. I know Bush and Gary didn’t play that game, but still, 52 points?
October 20th, 2022 at 10:07 AM ^
Only two TEs? I thought this was supposed to be a Harbaugh team.
It's a tough call between Hurst and Mazi. Mazi seems like a more traditional Nose that can hold up to doubles. But Hurst would just beat doubles with his quick first step.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:28 AM ^
Only two TEs?
I mean that offense is already going to get flagged for having 13 people on the field so might as well get your money’s worth, right?
October 20th, 2022 at 10:43 AM ^
you are nuts. Mo Hurst was one of the best players I've ever seen play at Michigan. This is not a exaggeration. Mazi is nowhere near the player Mo Hurst was.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:48 AM ^
You may be right
I may be crazy
Oh, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
😊
October 20th, 2022 at 10:56 AM ^
Yeah no question between Mazi and Hurst. Mazi is a solid DT, Hurst was an absolute game changer
October 21st, 2022 at 10:24 AM ^
I think the tough call is between Mazi and Ryan. Ryan gives you a bit more pass rush but since you’ve got Mo and Aidan you might prefer Mazi plugging things up
Mo is the best DT in the Harbaugh era by a long shot (since Alan Branch? Better than Branch? I can’t remember him that well).
October 20th, 2022 at 10:14 AM ^
QB - Still maybe a bit early on McCarthy - Rudock had his flaws but also had some great games and had years of experience. But yeah, pretty close.
RB - Don't sleep on DeVeon Smith. He was a really good back behind some mediocre offensive lines and this remains my favorite non-hurdle run out of a RB under Harbaugh.
WR - Hard to argue with that list; not a ton of guys who have stood out.
TE - Don't forget about Gentry, who was admittedly an oversized WR but still had some good games.
OL - Hard to argue with that list. Kind of bummed Newsome got hurt since he felt like a guy who could have broken onto the list.
DE - Good lord that's a lot of talent.
DT - Hard to argue. I know Carlo Kemp bounced around a bit on the line but feels like he was a solid contributor in this area for some years.
LB - Good list. Cam McGrone could have made a run at this list if he hadn't left early IMO.
DB/S/VIPER - No arguments there.
Special Teams - No arguments, though Blake O'Neill being remembered for that blocked punt is a bit unfair given he was a really good punter at UM during the "let's try to rugby punt" era.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:21 AM ^
RB: After HH/Corum there are a lot of guys who could be #3. De’Veon, Higdon, Evans, Edwards all conceivably be #3.
WR: Really shocked me how I couldn’t find 4 standouts. Talent wise, someone like C. Johnson probably should be up there, but the consistent production hasn’t been there.
TE: Gentry’s blocking is what held him back. He was a definite weapon in the receiving game.
DT: Kemp was pretty good; albeit unspectacular. Still he hung in there in a lot of 3 man fronts taking on doubles at <300 lbs (Don Brown special)
LB: McGrone looked like a star as a RS Fr. He looked lost in 2020 and then unfortunately left early.
October 20th, 2022 at 11:28 AM ^
Honestly…forget Harbaugh, since Hart, the RB has been pretty forgettable until Haskins. Even suggesting that De’Veon is one of Harbaugh's best backs just proves this point. However, after this year, it might be Corum/Donovan Edwards.
October 21st, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
Fitz was pretty good that one year.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
META: This is not OT at all IMHO. Great idea...
How about including positional coaches and coordinators, too?
October 20th, 2022 at 10:46 AM ^
TE: Jay Harbaugh
RB: Jay Harbaugh
Safeties: Jay Harbaugh
Special Teams: Jay Harbaugh
October 20th, 2022 at 11:12 AM ^
That's an interesting one right there. Do you favor coaching/scheme ability, or recruiting? My stab at this would be:
OC: Sherrone Moore
QB: Jedd Fisch (Passing Game Coordinator)
WR: Josh Gattis
RB: Mike Hart (Run Game Coordinator)
OL: Sherrone Moore (*or Ed Warinner if you don't want the OC coaching a position)
TE: Jay Harbaugh
DC: Mike Macdonald (Minter not far behind right now)
DL: Mike Elston (Run Defense Co.)
LB: Don Brown
DB: Steve Clinkscale (Passing Defense Co.)
Safeties: Chris Partridge (Ron Bellamy a close second here)
Special Teams: Jay Harbaugh
Now that I look at it, it's crazy how much of this consists of the current staff. Amazing how we've managed to upgrade over the years despite all the departures
October 20th, 2022 at 10:29 AM ^
Important nuance: who are the coordinators?
With our current crop of coaches and the OL you named above, I'd take 2018 Shea Patterson as QB. Dude was a sniper when he knew what he was looking at and trusted his OL.
If we could get Jedd Fisch back, JJ is just fine.
Also, definitely Khalid Hill as starting FB over Mason.
If I could undo one injury, it would be Grant Newsome.
If I could undo two injuries, it would be Grant Newsome and Wilton Speight's Iowa injury. Dude was never the same; QBs can be broken.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:57 AM ^
Yeah I think we forget how good the hammer panda was sometimes. Not only could he get the short yardage plays like Mason could, but he was a solid receiving threat too (that we failed to utilize a ton)
October 20th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
The DE room.... I looked up the numbers, recruiting rankings average at #322, and the average draft selection is #46 or a mid second rounder. That's a pretty incredible job of finding talent and developing it
October 20th, 2022 at 11:53 AM ^
This reminds me so much of our overall recruiting.
#46 recruit "Nah Im good Michigan I need that NIL money at around 100k+"
#322 recruit "Thanks for the UM education and also the 1st/2nd round signing bonus in the millions"
Repeated yearly.
This is meant to be a compliment on the coaches and more of a "wtf am I missing with these top 200 players?"
October 21st, 2022 at 5:05 AM ^
I’ve been thinking about this a lot today. That post a few days ago about re-ranking recruiting classes I thought was very interesting. The initial predictive rankings are nice to have but I would be even more interested to follow rankings that change over time based on actual play. It would be really cool to have two sets of rankings. There’s really no reason not to, just someone would have to start doing it. Seems like it would be a useful and popular tool. Also more relevant than anything you would know coming out of high school with these kids.
October 20th, 2022 at 10:34 AM ^
Mostly align with your picks. Only changes I'd make:
LT - I'd probably put Grant Newsome first team. Sure he was just getting going as a starter when he got hurt, but the talent was clear.
DT - While Henry was a beast I would slot Wormley in there over Henry.
S - Not sure if I'd put him over Delano, but Jarrod Wilson should go in over Metellus or Hawkins.
October 20th, 2022 at 11:15 AM ^
I definitely would have Jarrod Wilson or Rod Moore (I think he's that good already) over Metellus. I love Metellus, but he was a wild safety with some crazy ups and downs. Not the ideal "boring" safety
October 20th, 2022 at 6:30 PM ^
Sadly, Grant didn't play enough to make this list.