OT: Brady Hoke looks sharp as SDSU resolves dispute with Mountain West conference
I never disliked Hoke, I just thought it was a reactionary hire and was in over his head.
He genuinely loved the university and gave it his all. He just wasn't the man for the job.
Exactly!! I will never forget him saying he would walk to A2 for the job! I always liked him ... just wish things would have turned out better for him here - looks like he is in a good place...
Hoke looks great! Good for him.
He had tremendous support for hiring by former players - just a shame that he could never field an offense to match his defense (along with management issues such as the Shane Morris incident). He still did a fair amount in recovering from the RR years.
Disliked him after the Shane Morris incident. That was beyond the pale IMO.
Yeah, "in over his head" unfortunately included being a negligent leader of the young men on his team.
Sheeple are sheeple so why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully.
In Endzone, John U. Bacon makes a credible case that the Morris fiasco was not really on Hoke but on the athletic department as a whole. Brandon had removed the safeguards that should have been in place to keep the head coach informed.
That's what I always heard. Doug Karsch — who was on the field at the time as well, after all — always insisted that Hoke didn't have any idea about the injury initially. Couldn't see it, and nobody told him about it. All of us on TV were forced to watch seemingly hundreds of replays, but the coaches on the field at the game missed it entirely.
You can say, "well, they should have had systems in place," but ... as so often happens, those systems usually only arise as a result of these sorts of situations. They definitely do now.
Look, if you want to blame Hoke for not having a system in place to catch it, fair enough. But the accusation that he deliberately left an obviously concussed quarterback in to play seems ... pretty reckless, and almost insulting. If you want to be at your most cynical you could point out the incredibly negative impact that would have on future recruiting. But you don't even need to go to that far. Nothing anybody has ever said about Brady Hoke suggests he doesn't care about his players' well-being.
If he had a headset on, someone in the box probably would have told him about it.
Or would they?
Not sure what the guys upstairs saw or were aware of either. As soon as a ball is thrown (if not before) they are looking downfield, or at the line protection, etc.
They weren't watching the multiple replays of the hit like TV viewers were. They were concentrating on personnel groupings and playcharts.
Both the sidelines and the pressbox are incredibly hectic places during a game, with or without headsets.
This is like excusing Boeing CEO Jim McNerney's role in the 737 MAX disaster because the Boeing board was AWOL.
But in this analogy, isn’t Brandon the CEO?
No, the head coach is the CEO of the football team, while the AD is the board. How would your version even work? The AD isn't developing strategy for the team, overseeing day-to-day decisions, etc.
Edit: I suppose it could work for a conglomerate like Berkshire. The HCs are the CEO of the various operating companies it owns, while the AD is the CEO of the parent company. That would also open up the board to the Regents, whereas the original would make them the controlling shareholders.
It's not my vision for running a football program, but it seems to have been Brandon's. The guy was reportedly an insane micromanager, even watching film with the coaching staff.
Here's the problem with your fantasy world, you are dissecting this event from a current day perspective. In 2014, almost TEN years ago, the awareness and implementation of concussion protocol was in its infancy stages. If this happened today its a different story but it was almost TEN YEARS AGO GENIUS.
I came across Sixteen Candles a few months ago while channel surfing so I watched it for nostalgic reasons. Something I realized is that there were several scenes that from a current day lens would NOT be acceptable, including when the high school "stud" trades his drunk, passed out girl friend and his car to Anthony Michael Halls character for Molly Ringwald's character, implying he could do what he wanted. Pretty sure that is not happening in today's teen movies.
Calling that movie, reckless, misogynistic, racist or anything else by today's standards would by idiotic because believe it or not, some of those topics were not taboo while today, they most certainly. No different than your attempt to rewrite history in this instance using today's standards concerning an event that happened in a different era. Also, lets not forget what happened just this past season with the Dolphins QB during a game. It's so damn easy for the armchair QB's to sit back and in their delusional minds convince themselves they would have had it all under control if they were in charge. Like I said in the first sentence......FANTASY WORLD.
Good GOD, the logic and rationale of the analogy are EXCRUCIATING.
This is revisionist history. The play-by-play guys were calling for Gardner to come in already because Morris' leg was injured. He then takes that brutal hit and he's visibly messed up. He could not stand without the help of his teammates. It was immediate to everyone watching on the spot that he needed to come out. Re-watch the broadcast. They knew immediately. Within seconds of him getting hit, they're calling for him to be pulled. You don't need "safeguards" to be informed. It was visible to the naked eye that Morris was completely messed up and needed to come out of the game. What was Hoke doing on the sidelines if he couldn't see that with his own two eyes? He's the head coach. The buck stops with him.
The play starts at 2:16 and by 2:40 the announcers are calling for him to be taken out. What Hoke did was coaching malpractice. The announcers even described keeping him in as "appalling." Literal quote.
I recall the play but not the immediate aftermath - was targeting called? It should have been if it wasn't. Too late to call for a review?
It’s been a little while since I’ve read Endzone, but here’s the executive summary from what I recall:
-Hoke and those around him didn’t see the blow to the head because they were following the ball.
-Morris waved off the sideline when they first asked him if he was OK. He stayed in one more play.
-U-M normally had a guy in the press box who had an earpiece to listen to the game commentary, but Brandon had him doing something else that day, so no one on the staff heard what McDonough said.
-When he was pulled, Morris himself told the staff “It’s my ankle” so the doctors examined that, and didn’t check for concussive symptoms.
-Gardner came in the game, but a few plays later his helmet came off. Hoke asked the referee if he could stay in the game if he called a timeout, but the ref told him, incorrectly, that he couldn’t.
-Hoke then wanted to put in Bellomy, but he couldn’t find his helmet. Jon Falk had always made sure to keep track of backup QBs’ helmets, but he’d been nudged into retirement the previous offseason.
-Hoke - thinking Morris only had an ankle injury - put him in to run one handoff, then pulled him again.
Sounds alot like a bunch of circumstances Hoke had no control over... Nothing in his past or future pointed to a coach that didn't care about his players...In fact by all accounts from his ex-players he was just the opposite...
It was so strange as we watched the game from the 50 yardline. None of the 4 of us sitting together saw the hit, nor did anyone in our discussion arena. It is that vision thing that Peen and Teller depend on.
Peen and Teller 😂
Someone not associated with the football program has an opinion and somehow Hoke must respond? You are reacting to an announcer. He may be right in this case but is he an expert?
The play-by-play guys have the advantage of multiple replay screens and guys in the production truck looking at and alerting them to such things, which coaches on the sidelines do not have, and are more than likely, watching the ball and not the QB after the throw.
"The play-by-play guys were calling for Gardner to come in already because Morris' leg was injured." Think about what you are saying.....THE PLAY BY PLAY GUYS WERE CALLING FOR GARDNER TO COME IN.......THE PLAY BY PLAY GUYS....C'MON GENIUS, STOP WITH THE ARMCHAIR QB'ING.
Is Hoke watching the television broadcast on the sidelines? Christ man, wake TF up, it's so damn easy to sit on the sidelines of life and have all the answers and point fingers at everyone but you are WRONG in your perspective of this event.
Yeah, I generally treat what Bacon says with a hefty skepticism because he's inclined to be pro-UM on a lot of fronts but the Morris sideline handling always seemed more of a systemic issue in the AD/medical staff than a coach saying "rub some dirt on it and get back out there" type of callousness or even absent-mindedness portrayal by some. Morris was taken out when he was hurt initially, seemingly was checked out and told he could go back in, then Gardner lost his helmet and, if memory serves me right, Bellomy couldn't find his helmet so Morris went back out there for a play (where he handed off). He shouldn't have and a different coach probably would/should have called a TO to figure it out, but if the medical staff hasn't taken him off the field then as a coach you sort of assume he's able to play, especially after 2-3 plays had passed.
This is not designed to exonerate Hoke completely as a coach in that situation; again he could have called a TO in a blowout loss and either let Gardner go back out there or done something else. But I think a lot of people have sort of forgotten how shifty of a person Dave Brandon was and how he ran a bad AD. Hoke seems like a perfectly average college coach who is a good G5 HC/P5 assistant/coordinator and him getting the UM job just was a step too far for him.
I just re-posted the play and the lead-up. That's not what happened. He's already visibly hurt with his leg and the announcers are calling for him to come out, takes that shot, and before the next play the announcers are calling for him to come out, he goes back in, attempts a pass - not a handoff - where he's susceptible to getting hit again, and then pulls himself out. The announcers called it "appalling" and it was. I don't think Hoke was thinking to himself "fuck it, rub some dirt on it" either. But it was incredibly incompetent bordering on recklessness. He's the head coach. He should know what was going on on the field with his QB. We literally have teams of guys upstairs getting instant replays. The announcers, within 30 seconds, knew it. It was inexcusable.
But you’re assuming that Hoke saw what the announcers did (or someone on staff did, and relayed that to him).
Bacon’s argument is that he didn’t have all of this information at hand, due to dumb staffing decisions by Brandon earlier that season.
When he went back in it was after Gardner had relieved him but Gardner had his helmet knocked off. That's what, if I remember correctly, what most people were freaking out about. Morris not being taken out after the targeting shot (and he should have) was bad and I'm totally fine with people getting on Hoke for it, but even back in 2014 you'd see players try to keep playing after taking those types of shots and it is on the entire sideline to recognize there's a difference between being hurt and being injured and make the call to get a guy off the field. Devin Gardner, for example, played half a year with busted ribs, injured knees, etc. and we all sort of "what a warrior" it away. It's that part of football that isn't great, where we as fans lionize this toughness that is on the razor's edge between romantic and dangerous. And the announcers calling it "appalling" is correct but also a bit of him feeling his oats after that targetting not leading to an ejection. It was a clusterfuck across the board, from the refs to the staff to the coaches, and my only argument is that I think Hoke wound up getting a lot of that heat dumped on him because he was the focal point of a shitty season.
I guess my larger argument is that a coach shouldn't be defined so much by a mistake, even one as public as this one. Hoke shouldn't have been the UM head coach and he showed he was out of his depth, but I also think that not taking out a guy one play late shouldn't be treated as the war crime some people have made it out to be.
That entire situation was overblown. People were looking for a reason to be angry with Hoke and that was the reason. We are talking about one play and then he came out. That entire situation was complete hyperbole.
Fully informed.
In the presser following the Shane Morris apparent head injury Hoke states, "But I didn't see the hit either, because I was tracking the ball downfield."
Bacon also points out that Morris himself did not believe he had any kind of concussion and that his staggering was due to his ankle injury. It was Brandon that decided to throw Hoke under the bus with his whole "maybe slight concussion" bullshit. There was never any medical evidence of a concussion but Brandon decided to make up that story to put the controversy to rest.
That's not to excuse all of Hoke's "blunders," just that one.
If you watch the ESPN video of the entire game you can see the team doctor, the neurologist, examine Morris on the sideline. Morris was cleared to play regarding the concussion. That wasn't Hokes call. This is the same neurologist that answered questions the next day but would not comment on Morris per HIPPA restrictions.
The optics are horrible, and you can blame Hoke for those optics, but Morris was never in danger for a head injury. The Morris family made such a statement in the aftermath.
Sheeple are sheeple so why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully.
Though Hoke may have been in over his head/wasn't the best choice, I still think much of the problem was the meddling and micromanagement by Dave Brandon.
Yeah, it's the responsibility of the Athletic Director to oversee the program, but Brandon went way beyond that, sitting in on meetings of all types, sticking his hands where they didn't belong because he always thought himself the smartest man in the room.. Brandon practically suffocated Brady Hoke.
How well has that management style worked in Dallas with Jerry Jones micromanaging the Cowboys? Or with the Oakland Raiders before that, with the meddling of Al Davis during his later years?
I'm glad the end result is that we finally got rid of Brandon and then soon after signed Jim Harbaugh as head coach. But other than his part in failing Shane Morris that day vs Minnesota, I appreciate the overall job Hoke did in restoring Michigan Football after RichRod's reign of error.
dave brandon sucked but he didn't send a concussed player back into the game
i agree with all those who generally appreciate hoke and what means to UM/did for UM...but also that was a huuuuuuge mistake.
The problem with that reasoning is that - if JUB is correct - Brandon had a lot to do with why Hoke didn’t know Morris was concussed. My takeaway from that account is that there’s a lot of chaos on the sideline and the chain of information needs to be intact. Hoke apparently didn’t see the injury happen and the U-M media liaison who normally would be listening to the broadcast wasn’t in his job. (The issue was compounded by the new equipment manager not knowing where Bellamy’s helmet was.)
His headset wasn’t working properly.
Except that that never happened, of course.
People will believe what they want to believe, no matter what the evidence says.
I'm going to say this because I can't resist but I'm positive you are a Trump loving MAGA cultist. You have to be because you are obviously very easily convinced to believe a certain narrative that has been promoted via sound bites, headlines and video that supports the "truth" you need to believe, the one that best serves your belief or agenda.
Just sayin' .
I have nothing against Hoke, but boy has our program done a 180. At the time of Hoke's hiring, it seemed like nobody wanted to be our coach.
Who, if anyone, was a viable option and would take the job?
Good for him! Will probably result in several more years to spend with his children and grandchildren in his retirement years.
He's reverse aging. Wish he had more success here. I've always liked him.
Eh, he's definitely aging--see the gray hair. But he's one of the rare few that seems to be looking better as he's aging, which again, good for him for trimming down.
He definitely looks good. If I looked like that at 64 1/2, I'd be happy.
If he did some gray blending of his hair (there's a topic for OT season, should men ever consider coloring their hair), I think he could easily pass for 50. As is, he doesn't look near 60 to me.
I'd like to add manscaping to that upcoming OT discussion, and get a bunch of male perspectives on that.