OT: advice from MGoDentists
At some point in the past years, dentists' offices became committed to using a newfangled ultrasonic torture device. To avoid this thing, I just stopped going to dentists. But now I want to find a dental office for cleanings, especially for my children, without any of us being subjected to it.
We already changed one dentists for the kids once, because their first dentist used it on my 7 year old while my back was turned talking to my 5 year old, without warning either of us that she was going to do it, and without warning him that it might hurt. When I said I didn't like them, she dismissed the concern, and said it only hurts if you haven't brushed well enough.
We immediately switched to another dentist for their next appointment, who didn't try to use it on the kids. But when I asked about whether it was possible to have my teeth cleaned without using it, she just said sometimes it's necessary. This isn't an acceptable response to me, so I'm wondering if any dentists or dental hygienists out there can tell me some kind of secret code phrase to use to find out whether dental offices are committed to using them before making an appointment, or to convey that they really aren't allowed to use them on me or my children.
What can I ask or say to get a cleaning on acceptable terms? (Assume that my money and time are irrelevant for present purposes.)
August 26th, 2020 at 6:43 AM ^
I just went to the dentist and they said they don't use the ultrasonic right now since it creates huge aerosols.
August 26th, 2020 at 6:47 AM ^
I wish that were the case where I am!
ETA: I'm not in the US, which might make a difference to coronavirus restrictions, but definitely makes a difference to the local understanding of patient consent. Medical personnel in general just expect to be obeyed here, to the extent that they pretty much don't ask before doing things or even explain what they are going to do. That's part of why I need expert advice about expressing my request.
August 26th, 2020 at 9:09 AM ^
Dental work in rural Thailand is always a bad idea
August 26th, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
Western Europe!
August 26th, 2020 at 7:03 AM ^
This dentist is your best bet
August 26th, 2020 at 7:03 PM ^
I dunno, these guys seem to have an idea of what they're doing.
August 26th, 2020 at 7:08 AM ^
I've been going to dentists for decades and most of the ones we've used have been pretty sensitive to our concerns. I think it's just a matter of being upfront about your concerns (like it sounds you are) and keep looking until you find the right family dentist. Interestingly I don't think I've ever had myvteeth cleaned with this ultrasonic device, and I'm here in the U.S.
August 26th, 2020 at 7:14 AM ^
I’m a dentist. I’m surprised they would use an ultrasonic on your children’s teeth unless they have a lot of calculus (tartar). Tell them you do not want them to use an ultrasonic and want hand scaling only. You understand that they may not be able to clean your teeth as well. If they will not agree, find another dental office.
August 26th, 2020 at 2:48 PM ^
calculus is hard
...
is now a dentist joke that i just made up
August 26th, 2020 at 7:54 AM ^
Att my dentist office the hygienist asked if I wanted it used. I actually like it as it makes the cleaning go much faster but she said others don't. I don't know where you go now but am surprised if you just bring it up they wouldn't switch for you.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:48 AM ^
Same. I like the sandblaster since it's faster. Last time they put some of that numbing gel (cocaine?) in my mouth beforehand and I didn't feel a thing.
August 26th, 2020 at 9:03 AM ^
COCAINE
August 26th, 2020 at 10:49 AM ^
If you want your teeth cleaned with no pain,
You've got to try....
COCAINE!!!
August 26th, 2020 at 12:53 PM ^
Unfortunately, some people work second shift so they will have trouble finding a dentist who is open....
...after midnight.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:10 AM ^
I've learned this about doctors (and dentists and other health care providers):
They're not in charge. You are. You have control over what they put in your mouth, in your body, etc. You don't have to just submit to whatever they want you to do. So I would just them (kindly) that if they insist on cleaning your teeth with an ultrasonic, then you'll take your business elsewhere.
August 26th, 2020 at 2:03 PM ^
This. Medical professionals may be right most of the time, but not all the time. Even if they are right, ASK questions if there's anything you don't understand. And if there's something they're recommending that in any way makes you feel uncomfortable, seek more information or another opinion first.
August 26th, 2020 at 2:21 PM ^
This always worked very well for us in the US. But now we're not in the US so I was wondering if there was some kind of terminology that might get them to understand the request more clearly.
August 27th, 2020 at 12:17 AM ^
Physician here. You're in control of your care. We're there to inform you of your options and let you decide or decide with you if you want. If a physician is not comfortable with a treatment you want then you can go somewhere else.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
So I was going to tell you to man up, but then I remembered that I don't like cold water used - I always ask (and/or have to remind) to warm it up some. The techs are always pleasant about the request and do their best to make it comfortable. I think, instead of just demanding that they not use it, explain why in a congenial manner (maybe you are?). Most people, including those accustomed to doing what they do, will make an effort to please when you explain yourself politely. If they don't, just leave. You don't have to be a dick about leaving, or make a scene, but just leave.
Good luck finding a place - keeping your teeth clean and normal goes a long way with initial impressions when you meet new people, and other such things. Your children will silently thank you in the future for the dental torture you put them through now, when they figure it out (normally long after they've moved out!)
August 26th, 2020 at 2:25 PM ^
Yeah, I'm not being confrontational about it. It's just not working. I think I should find a very old dentist here, as I'm wondering if the younger dentists actually don't know how to do a cleaning without the tech.
I am pretty manned up on the dental front. I stayed awake to have my wisdom teeth out. The sound of a tooth being broken apart inside my head was kind of surreal, but otherwise it was fine.
I think I'm actually not confrontational enough (in person--I'm plenty confrontational online). One of my teeth is slightly discolored because my orthodontist overtightened my braces was I was a kid and he didn't listen when I said it hurt. That's probably why I'm being kind of defeatist about this. I was just hoping there was some kind of technical terminology for a hand-tool-only cleaning that would make it sound like I know what I'm talking about so they listen to me.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
Ultrasonic isn't bad. It's 20 minutes of slight pain every 6 months. The consequences of not going to the dentist for years is much worse.
August 26th, 2020 at 9:46 AM ^
I didn't go to the dentist for 7 years in my college years/initial working years with no dental insurance. I have no cavities and no issues with my teeth. 52 years old. The only problem I've ever had was a micro-fracture from chewing ice, hard candy, etc., that I've since healed.
August 26th, 2020 at 9:56 AM ^
How's bragging camp going?
August 26th, 2020 at 10:19 AM ^
"No cavities and no issues..."
But probably tartar, which is actually a biofilm produced by bacteria, that sets into the area at and just below your gum line. I *know* this, because that is precisely what happened to me. I thought, "Hey, I'm good. No cavities, no pain. I must be fine."
If you've got any personal or family history of heart disease, you're playing with fire if you don't visit the dentist twice a year at a minimum. In my case, blood tests and an ultrasound of my carotid artery showed the presence of blood clots. My doctor sent me to a dentist here in Michigan who specializes in the oral health link to heart disease, and he immediately diagnosed gum disease based upon bleeding around more than half of my teeth during his exam; a DNA test of the bacteria in my mouth showed the presence of two strains of bacteria that are highly correlated to cardiovascular inflammation (which causes clots to form).
In short, your cavalier attitude toward oral health could kill you as it would have killed me; fortunately, I have a doctor who helped me get my head out of my ass.
August 26th, 2020 at 10:52 AM ^
If you've got any personal or family history of heart disease, you're playing with fire if you don't visit the dentist twice a year at a minimum.
Twice a year? Really? Is that a thing for everyone, or just if you have those higher risk factors?
August 26th, 2020 at 12:01 PM ^
I need it every 6 months even with brushing twice a day and daily flossing. Probably due to my coffee/cheez-it diet.
August 26th, 2020 at 12:32 PM ^
Many dentists recommend twice a year for everyone, but a few dentists don't. In my case, it's actually about 4-6 times per year because I seem to develop tartar faster than road crews can lay down concrete. That's despite water-flossing with a mild bleach solution, tongue scraping, using ProFresh dental rinse, and brushing with a Philips Sonicare toothbrush - and doing that routine twice a day.
August 26th, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
Cavaliers. I miss the 90s version. First time I ever made out with a girl was in a Cavalier.
August 26th, 2020 at 2:00 PM ^
Nevermind
August 26th, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^
edit: TMI on my part
August 26th, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
I am with you. I stopped going to a dentist after she used some light sensor for "early cavity detection" and that thing beeped like crazy and the dentist wanted to do thousands of dollars of work for my "oncoming cavities". I never went back and have not had issues with cavities.
I did not mean to not visit any other dentists, but I just keep forgetting to find another (I have some major trust issue now) and now I am at a point where I am afraid to go visit one since it has been so long.
Not sure what I should do...
August 26th, 2020 at 12:17 PM ^
But you at the very least have recession and exposed dentin which is what makes the ultrasonic uncomfortable. At most, you have periodontal disease which only gets worse with time. Plus you sound like a nightmare of a patient. Yes, I am a dentist.
August 26th, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^
The poster you replied to isn't the OP, but I assume this was directed at me. I think "uncomfortable" is a bad euphemism for "excruciating" (and I would indeed switch dentists if I complained and they minimized my complaint by calling the experience merely "uncomfortable"). But yes, I think there is some recession, caused by scrubbing too much when brushing according to my latest dentist (which I guess she could tell because there's more of it on the side I can reach easily with my dominant hand).
But this is just blaming patients for the pain you are causing them instead of recognizing that you have to adapt your practice to the patient. So, here is my question for you: what could a prospective patient ask your office on the phone when inquiring about an appointment to discover that you and that patient should not bother spending time on one another?
August 26th, 2020 at 3:21 PM ^
We will see if this reply ends up where it is supposed to. At this point in time I am actually a dental hygiene educator and we spend a LOT of time on pain control. And rarely, if ever, are ultrasonics used on children. We are however talking in Michigan, and dental hygiene practice and procedures vary across the country and world.
August 26th, 2020 at 3:45 PM ^
I'm in Belgium. I think the practices are pretty standard here, but consent is not standardly sought here. Lots of doctors expect total compliance without any explanation of what they are doing.
It's kind of annoying because sometimes they are wrong. E.g., one of my kids needed a procedure and the surgeon we were sent to told me it could only be done by open surgery under general anesthesia. The same procedure is performed laparoscopically at the local university hospital, and can even be done as an open surgery under local anesthesia. I knew about the different possibilities, but when I asked him about it, he told me it was impossible and I was confused. Obviously we went to the university hospital for that one, but that's just an example of this weird high-deference but not high-competence culture I find myself in. I guess you get the idea.
Back on topic, I find it kind of odd that you are a dental hygiene and even pain control educator, but your response to patient aversion to a treatment modality is to explain away the reason the patient experiences pain. Who cares why it hurts. Shouldn't the focus automatically be on finding an effective treatment modality that the patient will tolerate?
August 26th, 2020 at 4:16 PM ^
Sometimes people find it helpful to know why something hurts. It is not explaining anything away. In my opinion the focus should always be on keeping the patient comfortable. There are multiple ways to do that.
Don't know about the consent issue. Could be a cultural thing or there aren't a lot of lawyers......
August 26th, 2020 at 8:40 PM ^
Ah, I see. I guess I would be more interested in the explanation for the pain if I wanted to convince myself to tolerate it.
August 26th, 2020 at 7:16 PM ^
An Ann Arbor dentist, probably long ago gone to the great cavity in the sky, once told a seven year old boy that since he, the boy, was tough, there was no need for Novocaine before drilling a 12" hole in his tooth eight feet deep.
I go to dentists sparingly and the last time a dentist purposely tortured me with that ultrasonic device, against my protestations, I sued his ass. He settled. Patients aren't the nightmare, self-righteous dentists are.
August 26th, 2020 at 5:18 PM ^
I didn't have dental insurance from the time I was 16 (when my mom passed) until after college when I got a full time job at 25. My teeth were completely fine, but the anxiety about not going to the dentist was awful enough that I go religiously now. When I was in college I'd have recurring nightmares of my teeth falling out or my mouth falling apart on the inside (like skin peeling or something). I haven't had those dreams since then.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
My dentist doesn't use it.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:26 AM ^
My long-time dentist started using ultrasonic equipment during my regular teeth-cleaning a couple of years ago. There isn't anything remotely torturous or painful or even uncomfortable about the process to me. It sure is less uncomfortable than drilling a tooth for fillings, which plenty of kids need done.
With respect to outright pain, ultrasonic cleaning pales in comparison to getting a shot with a hypodermic needle—which the vast majority of kids have to endure multiple times in their young lives.
In what way is it torture?
August 26th, 2020 at 8:38 AM ^
The noise bothers the shit out of me, but I endure.
August 26th, 2020 at 9:11 AM ^
Agreed. We moved across the country three years ago and our new dentist used this method. It's so much quicker than the scraping. I was a bit surprised on that first trip, since it wasn't something I expected, but, now that I know how it goes, the cleanings(for me at least) are easy. My wife is also on board. I thought she'd hate it, but, she said it's so much better than before. I suppose it's all one's personal preference.
August 26th, 2020 at 2:27 PM ^
It's not the noise for me, which others have mentioned. It just really hurts if they zap your gums with it. Maybe I've just had incompetent care in the past, but they really destroyed my gumline with it once and it was excruciating the entire time. My kid was also clearly very uncomfortable when they were using it on him, and he said afterward that it hurt.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:27 AM ^
Come on Man! Dentists are caring and compassionate people too.
August 26th, 2020 at 9:23 AM ^
Yeah maybe the OP is an anti-dentite?
August 26th, 2020 at 8:27 AM ^
(Deep breath- prepares to run away)
Can we just say "Dentists?"
August 26th, 2020 at 9:11 AM ^
I don’t know about you, Uncle Leo, but to me this Jon06 guy sounds like a rabid anti-dentite.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:47 AM ^
I remember my first tooth pulling when I was a young lad had the gas, but not the shot to numb.
Right up there with some of the worst pain I have ever experienced. We were tougher back then.
After that, I walked 30 miles in a blizzard to make it home, after walking 500 miles to get there.