Is a non-political corona post possible? Let's find out. Article on the details of Covid pneumonia
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html
For all the talk of lockdowns, quarantines, government responses, etc., I hadn't actually read that much about the disease itself. I just knew it was like pneumonia and attacks your lungs. This piece talks about what's really going on with the disease and why it's dangerous.
Basically, even though it attacks your lungs, it doesn't prevent you from expelling carbon dioxide, so you don't feel out of breath even though your oxygen levels may be dangerously low and your lungs are working hard. So by the time people really do feel like something is seriously wrong, the disease has already progressed quite far. Pulse oximeters can be bought at most pharmacies and aren't hard to use, so they could help with early detection.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:08 AM ^
“Is a non-political corona post possible?”
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I wish that quote would die. It makes no sense. There are plenty of situations where doing the same thing over and over again does produce a different result (e.g. practicing basically anything).
works sometimes in quantum mechanics
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:36 AM ^
yeah off target particle activity etc.... bla bla bla...quantum entanglement bla bla bla
Einstein was speaking in 'relative' terms regarding daily life... and we're not even sure he can be quoted as saying it.
So...
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln
My gf yelled at me multiple times before I stopped eating all her chocolate chip cookies. Same action, different result.
joe, why did you cave in? get a spine and go get those cookies.
Agreed. I've only heard it over the last 5 or so years, but it's a terrible definition.
not a definition, it's an Einstein quote. This is the definition of insanity
noun, plural in·san·i·ties.
the condition of being insane; a derangement of the mind.
Law. such unsoundness of mind as frees one from legal responsibility, as for committing a crime, or as signals one's lack of legal capacity, as for entering into a contractual agreement.
Psychiatry. (formerly) psychosis.
- extreme foolishness; folly; senselessness; foolhardiness:Trying to drive through that traffic would be pure insanity.
- a foolish or senseless action, policy, statement, etc.:We've heard decades of insanities in our political discourse.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
it's an Einstein quote
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^
No, he did say it when chit-chatting with me once, but I didn't have the foresight to record it. ..... or was that Joe Einstein, I don't remember.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:58 AM ^
Yeah, I know what insanity means, that's why it's a dumb definition...because it's not the definition.
practicing implies eventual improvement which is no longer doing the same thing...therefore the result may be different. simply doing the exact same thing implies no change and should yield the same result.
I'm with you. Every time I hear that quote, I want to say "actually, that's not the definition at all." People sometimes attribute the quote to Einstein for some reason, despite any evidence that he said it. It's believed to have come from an AA meeting somewhere (which makes sense).
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:44 AM ^
Honestly most covid posts have been pretty civil and apolitical until 1 or 2 dunces decides to make it political
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:41 AM ^
Non-political corona virus posts are the best corona virus posts and everybody knows it. There are many, many corona virus posts, but the non-political corona virus posts are beautiful, really. Other Corona virus posts have terrible ratings, 3rd rate really - you know it, I know it, everybody knows it. The biggest and most tremendous corona virus posts are the non-political corona virus posts, all the best people are saying it. I'm rich, my wife and daughter are 10's, and I have the biggest ratings and best words. Just beautiful, big, tremendous, huge - the non-political corona virus posts, everybody is saying it.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:35 AM ^
On the other hand, here we have the definition of a "one trick pony."
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:43 AM ^
I'm not a doctor by any means, but shortening this to Covid Pneumonia seems misleading, given they are two different diseases.
Unless I misremember how this works, you get Covid, or the Flu and it weakens your immune system, making you extremely susceptible to pneumonia. In that state it's all over pretty much.
I'll take my lumps if it's fine to use that terminology, although I've never heard them combined like that in working several years in hospitals.
Well I'm not a doctor either, but that's what he calls it so that's what I went with. I believe pneumonia is an infection but is not specific to any one bacterium or virus, and the novel coronavirus causes pneumonia. Is that not right? I don't see what's wrong with the name.
This is specifically wrong. Covid-19, unlike the flu, directly attacks the lungs, causing primary pneumonia.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:29 AM ^
I’m not a doctor either. But the same people telling us we need to wait for a vaccine are the same doctors who have been unable to find a vaccine for AIDs for over 40 years
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:48 AM ^
Been watching Laura Ingraham I see? If you honestly think that COVID-19 and AIDS are remotely similar then you might be an idiot
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:10 AM ^
This is not HIV, so I'm not sure I follow this point?
We do now have a vaccine for Ebola, and for a number of other viruses, too.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
Everyone in your family should refrain from procreating until we find an AIDS vaccine. We will let you know when it's safe.
Well done, sir.
Well. Done.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:03 PM ^
I picture you looking exactly like your avatar at all times. Seems about right based on the words you type in.
Violent stupidity is a dangerous thing. Fox is damaging what is left of your addled brain.
Do you think the European countries with plans to open up - some of which have had worse outbreaks than the United States such as France, Holland and Switzerland - or never closed (Sweden) have governments full of avid Fox News watchers?
How 'bout you try to stay on topic? "Boom goes the ..." is getting roasted for his inane post. Do you think he's being reasonable?
People are roasting him for comparing this to HIV, but he's not wrong from a reaction standpoint:
Predictions that absurd x millions would die (check)
Fear-mongering about how everyone was at risk (check)
Reality being only certain populations were at serious risk (check)
I can't comment on the specifics of his post (were there lots of people saying life would not go back to normal for everyone until we had a vaccine?), but it wouldn't surprise me. This board has proven that otherwise intelligent people love a good doomsday story regardless of the evidence.
Don't worry Timmmaay, Biden is totally going to win.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
This is not quite right. There are viral pneumonias and bacterial pneumonias. Influenza and SARS-CoV-2 cause viral pneumonias. This article describes what happens to patients suffering from COVID infection (viral pneumonia). We do see secondary bacterial pneumonias after viral pneumonias, usually 1-2 weeks after the viral pneumonia. It's classically described in influenza, and we're seeing it in COVID as well - most typically due to Staph pneumonia.
It has been speculated that it might be related to viral influence on the immune system - still not 100% clear.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
Your white blood cells are doing the most damage to your lungs, fighting the viral infection, then comes the bacteria which causes the most severe case of pneumonia. Often sicken people think they have fought of the initial virus only to be in much worse shape with a widespread bacterial pneumonia.
Got it, thank you Magic_Fan. They are two different things Flu/Covid and pneumonia, but viral pneumonia is caused by Flu/Covid. I'd always assumed pneumonia was a standalone infection in it's own right, but it's more of a severe expression in the lungs of the initiator virus. It wouldn't happen if the original virus didn't exist, and severity is likely determined by how severe the virus is and how fragile the patient/lungs are.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^
I'm a physician and Covid can and often does attack the lungs and causes pneumonia in symptomatic patients.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:50 AM ^
I read that article a couple of days ago.... this one is from today.... could it be that blood clotting is causing a lot of this, including pneumonia?
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
Really interesting, thank you
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
Likely two separate but related problems. These patients are getting viral pneumonia from SARS-CoV-2 and for some unclear reason are also at high risk for blood clots/pulmonary emboli. Highly problematic on both fronts.
This article from Science Magazine discusses the multiple attack vectors of Corona. It’s one nasty virus.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes
damn, that is sobering
pretty soon our pets heads are going to start falling off like what happened to Petey
I felt at the beginning when the NCAA, NBA, NHL, MLB all cancelled or suspended their seasons, colleges cancelled classes and commencements and sent their students home, and places like Disney World and Universal Studios shut down, that was all I needed to see for me to believe this thing was going to be nothing short of epic.
There was no way in hell any of these organizations, let alone ALL of them, would have taken these completely unprecedented steps, losing countless billions of dollars, if they hadn’t heard a lot of info from highly qualified medical professionals that scared them shitless and convinced them beyond any doubt this thing was for real.
And yet a lot of people, of all political persuasions, still insisted on calling it the “flu” and we may have only scratched the surface on the chaos this virus is going to leave behind by the time it’s all done.
Humans and our arrogance thumbed our noses at Mother Nature once too often and Mother Nature is going to absolutely crush us on this one.
The virus isn't that bad stop being so dramatic.
Almost 50K Americans would disagree with you if they weren't dead.
The average age of death is 80. We are doing this to save people who are going to die in the next year anyway. The economical and psychological damage we are causing is much worse then this virus.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:19 AM ^
I think you understate the impact, but you are right in that it's mostly old people.
I think the antibody tests in California have made one thing clear, as long as it doesn't hit nursing homes or high risk groups, Covid 19 is almost unnoticeable in the general population.
That's the good news. The bad news is, when it hits a nursing home it's not like the Flu. The Flu gets in a nursing home and 70% of the population there is immune, or resistant. 2 or 3 people in 100 may get the Flu in an individual nursing home and die every year. Especially in the era of vaccines.
Covid 19 hits a nursing home and 0% of the population is immune and very few resistant. It's got to be horrifying how quick it goes through those places and how many people it kills.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:35 AM ^
We should be cautious about interpreting those serology tests. There may be some problems with their methodology regarding sampling and false positives.
Also, while mortality is low for those under 70, not all "recovered" patients come out of this with a clean bill of health - some have reduced lung capacity and other issues.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:25 PM ^
On the subject of serology, NY conducted their own and estimate over 20% of NYC has been infected already. Time to end the quarantine and get the other 80% infected and working it out.
Of course NYC has also had a huge number of COVID deaths - and 20% is not close to herd immunity (which is probably like 75-80% for this virus).
Most of what I've seen suggests herd immunity is 60-70% so you're 1/3rd the way there already on the low end....and the summer months are coming up so the virus will be weaker than it is in the winter. Now is the perfect time to rip the band aid off.
On deaths, if 20% are infected, the mortality is significantly lower than we thought (probably around 0.3%) even when factoring in the huge death rate in the 80 year old range.
Lets quarantine the old and the sick and get the rest of us out there closer to herd immunity so we have a better chance of surviving RD 2 in the winter.
60-70 % is the rate for influenza. This is more contagious than that so the necessary percentage is going to be higher.
Regardless, getting from 20 % (if that's even accurate) to 3-4 times that number is hard without having a ton of deaths.
I think the true number will be even higher than 21% once they get more testing....especially if they include 1st responders.
"without having a ton of deaths"
Honest question, is there any number of deaths you would deem acceptable in order to reopen NYC? Or is it unacceptable to have any deaths from covid?
"if that's even accurate".
Yep, same reaction to all good news.