Is a non-political corona post possible? Let's find out. Article on the details of Covid pneumonia
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html
For all the talk of lockdowns, quarantines, government responses, etc., I hadn't actually read that much about the disease itself. I just knew it was like pneumonia and attacks your lungs. This piece talks about what's really going on with the disease and why it's dangerous.
Basically, even though it attacks your lungs, it doesn't prevent you from expelling carbon dioxide, so you don't feel out of breath even though your oxygen levels may be dangerously low and your lungs are working hard. So by the time people really do feel like something is seriously wrong, the disease has already progressed quite far. Pulse oximeters can be bought at most pharmacies and aren't hard to use, so they could help with early detection.
Pneumonia is no joke.
This also explains why the elderly and obese seem to be at risk. Severe pneumonia isn't good in those populations.
Also, doctors seem most freaked out because this is new. They are trained in how to treat diseases, but this one has no known treatment plan yet.
If you ever hear doctors describe a more serious disease that has been around longer, it is done in much less alarming way.
Of course, this is different than risk to society from the virus.
I think they are also freaked out because they understand the implications to the health care system if it gets overwhelmed. They also have a better understanding of exponential growth than your average person so that they understand how easily this can get out of control. They also know that until we get the PPE situation under control, they are subject to significantly elevated risk.
Definite concern over PPE, but most places are fine with that now.
As for being overwhelmed, they feel that because they have no idea if this is just the beginning or if we are already at apex. That is something for epidemiologists to debate (and they are).
On a side note, Cuomo said their healthcare system was never overwhelmed. Same thing here in Metro Detroit.
In Lombardy they seemed to run out of room, but the big concern was making decisions about who gets a vent and who dies. We seem to have gotten away from the vent concerns as we learn more.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:01 AM ^
Could you cite some evidence for most places are fine with PPE? I tried to find any and all I came up with was continuing recent anecdotal stories about continuing shortages of PPE.
The interviews I have read of ER and ICU drs and nurses in places like NYC seemed to have significant concerns beyond whether they’d reached the apex (but there was often an element of how will we handle this if it gets worse). They spoke of having never seen anything like this in there careers, multiple days of overcrowded ERs and people waiting for ICU beds (this after all NYC hospitals significantly increased the number of ICU beds). Barely having time to go to the bathroom, much less take any sort of real break. They talked of inadequate PPE, isolating from their families. You can debate the semantics of the word overwhelmed all you want, but there was nothing normal about what was going on in NYC and it is only due to the extraordinary efforts of many medical professionals from Drs, to nurses, to EMTs and medical technicians that NYC made it through this first surge as well as they did.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:23 AM ^
Whitmer mentioned it here yesterday. There is also a state website that lists PPE availability and it shows lots.
As for other areas, there were many concerns as hospitals seemed to hoadd it from each other in prepping for field hospitals, etc. Similar to the run on toilet paper when this started.
Now you hear more stories about PPE being shared as most hospitals never got that huge surge they were preparing for at the time.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:33 AM ^
When I can buy a disposable N95 mask, and replacement P100 filters for my respirator at Home Depot again, then I'll know we have enough PPE.
Millions of people use those every day to do their jobs, and not just in healthcare.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:03 AM ^
He was talking about concerns for health care workers.
With all the people thinking masks are making a huge difference, it will be a while before regular people can get the highest grade masks.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^
Your description of "high end masks" is all I need to know about our lack of intelligence, as there's very little real world difference relating to COVID19 in this situation between the number of microns on specific masks, or even homemade ones.
The issue is the mucus and spittle when someone coughs, then gets aerosolized... even putting a cloth over your face does an amazing amount of good at keeping the mucus on that cloth, very little gets through if any at all.
Those "HIGH END" masks that you talk about, are really meant for contagions that are much smaller; fiber glass particulate, dust particulate etc.
**In summary, masks are NOT for the people who are healthy, they're for the people who are sick, and any mask does a great amount of good if you're sick.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:26 PM ^
?
N95 masks can protect the person wearing the mask. Other masks not so much. THAT is why people will prefer them.
Other masks can protect other people (the the person wearing the mask). But, that is just the current thinking and they are trying to figure it out.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^
This is an easy comment to react to and say "You don't support the healthcare workers!!", which is non-productive, untrue, and a clone of the ludicrous analogue "You don't support the troops!!", but here goes: there's a difference between being horrendously busy, stressed, emotionally wrecked, physically exhausted, and the healthcare system being overwhelmed. I define the latter as anyone needing a bed, care, or ventilator and not receiving it. That does not seem to have happened for the most part.
And for those that want to see this as political, this is a really good thing on the part of all officials, both parties. Italy was overwhelmed, as was Wuhan early, Spain, others. It doesn't appear that it's happened here. We should all be very happy with that.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:27 AM ^
https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98159-523641--,00.html
Here is a link to Michigan's available beds and PPE.
Read about 20 posts and the answer to the original post's question about a non-political COVID-19 post is no
I'll disagree. The comment stream has been quite focused on the disease itself, both it's causes and effects. MGoUser Western_ has gone off the rails, but he isn't exactly on any rail, anyway... Dude is a bonafide conspiracy theory whack job!
I think a non-political post about the causes of the virus and its affects on the body can be non-political but once you get into how it impacts society it becomes political.
What Western_ said isn't entirely untrue if you have nobody working basically all infrastructure will fail. This has happened in many countries during war time and post war. I think it's pretty far off from our current situation but it "could" happen if you don't let people work for extended periods of time.
Sue China.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
GREAT IDEA!!!!
I'm being facetious... but there may be merit here. For however crappy the UN is, there have been good things to come out of it such as payment of wartime damages.
Hell, if the UN were to put together some legislation holding countries like China responsible for their complete disregard for standard health practices... then yeah, we could get some money out of this.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^
Being equally facetious, but this could be our economic out. The Chinese hold massive amounts of US debt. We sue them for the total amount of the debt they hold, square the books a little, and improve our balance sheet so that we can maybe address the idiocy of the $4T porkulus bill shit that was passed.
Just came across this article this morning on lower rates of hospitalizations among smokers... big tobacco has been waiting in the weeds for this moment.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:26 AM ^
I'm not going to take up smoking, but I'm a firm believer that if I pickle myself in sufficient quantities of good scotch, the virus gets drunk, vomits, and dies.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:29 AM ^
Because you're smart....
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
Good scotch? No such thing.
That's been my strategy. Working this far.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:05 AM ^
Exactly why I love our media... contriving bullshit from facts...
Nicotine, may very well assist with symptoms of the virus, so probably too would caffeine, increasing blood flow etc.
Note they're not handing out faggots! They're trying nicotine patches...guessing this would also be similar to passing out ativan to calm people down so they're not over taxing their already compromised respiratory system.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:21 AM ^
Anybody who still thinks "it's just the flu" is a fucking idiot. Is that non-political?
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
Hey Don... weren't you complaining about your civil rights being violated the other day?
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:33 AM ^
Is it not possible for someone to believe that this is a serious disease that is more severe than the typical flu, AND that some of the specific policy decisions have been misguided and infringe on individual rights? I’m not sure why those would be mutually exclusive.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:50 AM ^
The gravitas of the situation isn't defined by a sliding scale of theoretical homosapien ethics or civil rights. But since you're on the subject, I'll indulge... I believe the most paramount of civil rights is being able to go out and buy food, without having to worry about some asshat who's spreading a deadly virus?
Catch my drift yo!?
Wait you're a UofM grad, I'll have to explain further just so you can understand. The most basic of 'civil' rights would be the right to LIVE! This is unconditional, and no... your right to go out, have a beer, chat with friends, socially mingle does NOT trump my right to live.
So either you're saying you have the right to infect others, or that this is only slightly more serious than the flu? Just the fact that you have the 'right' to chat on a Blog while parking your ass in the safety of your home means that you have more civil rights than you know what to do with.
First world problems...
*Volunteer some of your computer processing power to "Folding at Home", order some pizzas for the local hospital, or hell even call and ask if you can volunteer... this way you can exercise your civil rights, and do some good while doing it.*
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:09 AM ^
So you think it should be framed as "the right to live" versus "the right to go get a beer"?
Cmon big boy, we aren't new at spinning the narrative to serve your purpose.
What if I framed it as "the right for a small percentage of elderly people to live a couple more months" versus "the right to food and shelter and life for many millions more"?
You do nothing to advance a real discussion.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^
Ok 'little sister'...
The age old ethical debate of saving one person tied to railroad tracks, or two others on a different path... is moot.
I'm a little disturbed by your broad brush strokes of "percentage of elderly people to live a couple more months" so you can go out and have your fun. What an incredibly dystopian approach to the equation.
Secondly, your statements aren't accurate at all, we're seeing young folks struggle with the virus as well. Then again, I'm on board with you in a certain sense... if this virus were only attacking morons who smoke, and those that drink... I'm all for getting drunk drivers off the roads, and killing people who are polluting my atmosphere. :-)
I like your train of thought bruh... though I don't like sacrificing our elderly, I think we should sacrifice all the smokers, drinkers, lard-asses, and generally unhealthy people who make poor decisions about their health and tax our health insurance and health care systems!
*Big money... no whammy!
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
Why do we have to "sacrifice" our elderly?
Why can't we work extremely hard to protect them as they are the most vulnerable (and their over-representation in deaths/serious cases are what drive a lot of the fear/panic in society) people contracting the virus?
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:35 PM ^
Is the idea that people die really that big a controversy? People act like we can't allow death to happen anymore and that anyone dying is a fucking tragedy. It's not, it's life. It ends at some point for everyone.
Life expectancy in this country is 78.5....if you are 80, you are 1.5 beyond the max life expectancy in the history of the world. We shouldn't throw away our children's future to keep 80 year olds from ever dying.
Spin City = Ann Arbor
The fact that people die is nothing horrifying or new. What doesn't strike me as acceptable is people complaining about some perceived civil liberties being violated while a large portion of the population is struggling with a very contagious and serious illness.
I guess I'm just a weirdo... I believe that by sacrificing some of my social habits (like going to the gym and staying fit, and competing in body building) is worth it if I prevent even one life being lost. Call me a romantic... roflmao
Some people on here are bitching because they can't go get drunk, and act like the college asshats they were a few years ago while in school... it offends their sensitivities because they have to sacrifice their social status; as if they actually have a social life roflmao.
Vegas guy here, just sayin'... not like you Michiganders have a whole lot of social shit goin on anyways. I mean fuckin' really?
Michigan (and I was born there) =
Bro, you've been hammered and posting since around 7 am Vegas time. Might be time to log off.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
LOL... my only comments here have been to mock complaints about civil rights being violated by temporary stay at home orders.
Ah well then good on you Don Juan!
I usually disagree with you, so go figure...
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:31 AM ^
I think the point has always been that it is as fatal as a severe flu.
It is some hybrid of pneumonia, flu etc. that doctors are still trying to figure out.
No one wants to die from the flu or pneumonia either. Or cancer, or a heart attack. Etc.
The question of how deadly it is to the overall population (not just the rare people who get it bad) is the thing you have to think about in making big decisions.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:41 AM ^
"I think the point has always been that it is as fatal as a severe flu."
That's disingenuous bunk—the intent behind the assertion that "it's just the flu" has always been to minimize the unique dangers of the virus and the risks inherent in not taking quick steps to deal with it.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
You put two things together that you say are being minimized.
Unique dangers of the virus.
Inherent risks requiring action.
Frankly, no one discussing policy for society is concerned about a unique disease if it posses little threat.
The issue has always been the risks it poses that require action. Just like I said. If it carries a similar risk to society as a severe flu, that should dictate how society responds.
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:48 PM ^
Why is it UM grads have an amazing ability to embellish and obfuscate, is there some sort of linguistic deficiency that prevents you from speaking succinctly? We in higher education call it "diarrhea of the mouth".
Frequency vs. severity = exposure
Summary: "Measured response"...
You could/should have said... "Response should be commensurate to/with the risk"
**You may now continue with blowing smoke out of your lower posterior
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:16 AM ^
True.
Similarly, the search and amplification of the rare young victim of the virus by the media and certain social media users has been done to ramp up society's fear level when its quite clear that age has a huge impact on how deadly/serious the virus is for someone who contracts it.
It'd be nice if we could find the right balance.
April 23rd, 2020 at 11:26 AM ^
I think the point has always been that it is as fatal as a severe flu.
Which is terrible reasoning. This is going to kill more Americans than any flu in recent memory despite totally unprecedented social distancing measures.
April 23rd, 2020 at 10:26 AM ^
The title of your post is a complete dichotomy and oxymoron... or maybe you're just a fuckin moron.
By calling attention to it... therein you've self identified this post as political.
God, do UofM grads get dumber by the fuckin minute or what?
-Hopkins Grad
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:04 PM ^
"The title of your post is a complete dichotomy and oxymoron"
I loled
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:19 PM ^
The use of the word "pneumonia" is political, because shithead Republicans use "flu" or "Chinese flu".
April 23rd, 2020 at 12:53 PM ^
The year 2019 would like to express it's dissatisfaction with the enumeration of "THE" (tm) virus as being COVID19... as the year 2019 believes that overall it was a good year for everyone, and treated everyone with distinction and respect.
Furthermore, I hope you're burning all of the books out there that say "SPANISH FLU"! And if you've ever said "Spanish Flu" in your lifetime I believe you deserve ten (10) lashings, and one anal probe.
**Spanish people have been offended for over 100yrs, so the Chinese can get in fuckin' line.
Thank you for the negbangs... they turn me on,
and, it means that you're racist! *wink*
#spanishhonormatters
I have a pulse OX finger machine, after having been thru pneumonia so bad I almost died. GET ONE. That machine is under 20 bucks, pop it on your finger and you have a reading in a few seconds.Also can check your heart rhythm. Last year I felt bad and popped it on and 30 seconds later call my wife to take me to the hospital. Ox was at 76.