New N'Western Lawsuit Implicates Michigan Analyst
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38120463/ex-northwestern-lineman-alleges-racial-mistreatment-lawsuit
"We were in Kenosha watching film, and Coach Ingalls said something to the extent of, 'Man, this room is really dirty. It's a pigsty. Ramon, I know your parents clean up after folks like this. How should we do it?'" said the former offensive lineman, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "There were some really foul things that ended up happening under his watch."
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^
Harbaugh will get an additional 10 game suspension.
And be forced to eat Beyond burgers instead of real meat.
With Soy Milk!
(As an aside, that meme that Soy Milk is just regular milk proclaiming itself in Spanish cracks me up. Anywhoo, carry on.)
You can make this joke but the program has made some questionable hires and having to fire another guy is a bad look
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:09 PM ^
It really isn’t rocket science to link the URL instead of just copy pasting it in the post. Click the link button to the right of the Italics button.
The analyst in question is Bret Ingalls if it wasn’t clear from OP’s post; the player is of Mexican heritage.
They should just can his ass. Not a great look for him and won’t be missing much as he’s just an analyst
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
Thank you for adding the 32 seconds of context the OP left out.
Exactly.
Fire him (after doing some research, there is a level of due process involved) and hire Paul Chryst. Chryst and Harbaugh are great friends.
This one isn't hard.
Do your due diligence and make a decision. Don't need distractions like this and there are plenty of former head coaches who would love to be part of a 23-24 national championship team.
He’s likely an at will employee which means he can be fired for any reason at any time. You don’t need due process. Same way they forced Shemy out
Clarifying here: You're not suggesting that someone be fired without the allegations being fully investigated and substantiated, right? Simply that due process of law is not a requirement here. If the Duke lacrosse scandal taught us anything it's that no one should rush to judgment and that all allegations need to be fully investigated.
Just saying that you don’t need to show cause or wait for the outcome of any legal proceedings to make your decision.
No, it's not a great look, but it would be absolutely absurd to fire him for one alleged comment from 15+ years ago. You guys are off your rocker.
I think you mean “rocket appliances”
Water under the fridge
I could care less about this topic
Unfortunately, that's what happened to me during last week's power outage.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^
Goodbye, Bret Ingalls.
Michigan really needs to do a much better job of looking into hirees past.
Edit: Fair points all. No way UM could have learned of this without the victim explicitly telling them which seems really unlikely.
I’ll leave the comment up so people know what others are responding to.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
I don't disagree, but how does one effectively screen for "casual racism" like this? Do you add a question to the interview that asks something like, "Hey, do you believe that all Latinos clean houses for a living and make comments to Latino players along these lines?" Not defending Ingalls at all, but I would be willing to bet that "in the moment" he considered this a harmless, "fun" comment to a player he was close with.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
You can't. But that won't stop people like Sal from virtue signaling about it.
Counterpoint: Not wanting to hire (and fire) racists is a virtue.
Agreed. But given how long ago this was (as opposed to Schemy's shit-posting), I'd give him a chance for a mea culpa. "I was wrong then but I'm a better person now." Or "I admit I've made mistakes in the past, but I'm willing to learn." For me, it's doubling down on your racism with crap like "It's just a joke, lighten up" that turns Mr. Hand into Mr. Fist.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:27 PM ^
Yeah, can't believe they didn't uncover a comment made in private several years ago, the bums. I bet they didn't even ask him if he was a racist in his interview.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
I agree with your overall sentiment but unless Ingalls has a documented history of such behavior, I'm not sure how they would ever come across something like this without the current situation unfolding at NW.
Seems like a discussion with Harbaugh should be forthcoming and I don't think anyone wants a part of this heading into the season if it can be substantiated.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
I would never defend anyone that displays this type of behavior, so just curious just how far back should they go? This coach has been at multiple stops in the NFL and college ranks after leaving Northwestern, he left Northwestern in 2009.
We can all agree what the player describes is racist, horrible, and grounds for termination. Ramon Diaz was on the Northwestern team from 2005 - 2008, it's 2023 and the first reporting was what 4 weeks ago?.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
I agree he should be gone but if you're sitting on some Minority Report-esque technology that allows people to know racist things people have said in film sessions years ago please pass it along.
Glenn Schembechler made a lot of online statements showing he was a racist crank; unless more comes out about Ingalls I don't know how you find this out.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
So we should immediately terminate him based on a single accusation? Boy I hope none of you ever find yourself in a situation like i was in several years ago.
A POC who worked for me was terminated for steering customers to a side hustle he had put together instead of running the transaction through the parent company. And while I was not directly involved in his termination, he thought I ordered it so he and his mom sued me and two other executives for racial discrimination in Federal Court. He claimed, under oath, that I called him the N-word in front of multiple people, multiple times and asked for 500K in damages. This suit was picked up by local news outlets and I was branded a racist in the court of public opinion.
Under cross examination during deposition fortunately his entire story fell apart and the case was dismissed, with prejudice, so he could never re-file. The judge told him and his mom he had never had a case where so many easily refutable lies were told under oath and threatened him with perjury charges. So, thank goodness, it was over but the local media never reported that.
I'm not saying the guy is innocent (I have no way of knowing) but I am going to reserve judgement and calling for his termination until I see a wee bit more than the statement of someone suing him in court.
I've been there.
True and I'm sure once the channels reach back to JH and the administration, due process will likely take hold so they can talk about it. Maybe termination isn't the solution but some type of DEI training or classes are probably in that guy's future in the event he retains his job as an act of contrition. After all, he's still working with student-athletes.
That being said, the report seems very specific regarding the elements of the behavior and when/where it took place. Usually the he said/she said rumors start with "One time, coach x said..." but that doesn't seem to be the case here. On the surface and given the recent confirmed events at NW, I'd say it's best to dig a little deeper on this one.
you really wanted to tell this story.
I've been here 13 years and the event happened 15 years ago. I've also been pretty transparent on things that have happened to me in my personal life so if "I really wanted to tell this story" you would've heard it by now.
I shared in response to the numerous posts suggesting he should be fired immediately based on an accusation. I'm sure there was similar sentiment about me after my accuser filed in court as well. I know this is terribly shocking to some folks but people do sometimes lie, especially when they think there's money in it.
i appreciate the story and stand by my comment.
Being accused of racism in one's past is not something most people would want to bring up.
From my recollection you are very transparent. And I believe you a trustworthy person.
You have a bigger set of balls than I do.
It sounds made-up.
It absolutely was not "made up". It was about six months of pure hell for me, between worrying about my job, my reputation and my finances.
Point to one post I've made here over the past 15 years that was "made up". I'll wait.
Having been here on this board for about the same amount of time as you, I do NOT believe you made this up. Sorry you went through this, and as another MGrowOldGuy, you have my permission to verbally thrash this Gen Zer questioning your credibility
Your wife is not a hot blonde like you claim, but rather a stick figure animation. Just admit it!
August 7th, 2023 at 12:03 AM ^
Def sounds made up. Cool story, but very much fake.
Mgrow has been here forever and I can tell you if he shares this kind of story it hits home. Our job as a community (mgoblog as well as a nation) is to protect those mistreated and stand by them. It cant be "well he was horribly mistreated but he wasnt of a specific color" this is how we got in this mess in the first place. Long story short stand up when people get treated bad, regardless of what kind of social media points is gets you, if any.
Mgrow Im sorry you went through something like this and no matter what your legal team does you will always feel its effects. The general response of some where between "sucks to be you" and "you made this up/ you really wanted to tell this story" says a lot about how far weve come. Which is to say weve just found new ways to deal with shit the wrong way.
Agree with he sentiment that they shouldn't execute a hasty decision based on a single accusation, but wanted to point out the article indicates this is more than a single accusation.
Ramon Diaz is the former NW player who filed suit, and stated Bret Ingalls derogatory comments about his race "haven't left me since I finished playing."
ESPN then reached out to a former teammate of Diaz at NW (unnamed) who corroborated one such instance of racial abuse: "We were in Kenosha watching film, and Coach Ingalls said something to the extent of, 'Man, this room is really dirty. It's a pigsty. Ramon, I know your parents clean up after folks like this. How should we do it?'"
Just out of curiosity... did someone actually check to see if one or more of this kid's parents was actually a cleaning professional? (I assume they are/were not, but that would be unfortunate if everyone assumed racism when the comment was meant to be literal, due diligence and all.)
Exactly. If someone said it. It must be true. However if the truth is confirmed then and only then can or should action, be taken. I've been there. Don't care to share.
Again, if you read the article it's not just one comment. It's a series of comments plus the coaches facilitating the various hazing incidents that occurred over years. The blurb here makes it sound isolated when, per both Diaz and another former teammate, it was decidedly not.
It is an *allegation* of a series of comments, which is still just an allegation. It may be wholly accurate, it may be a complete fabrication, or it could be somewhere between. As the story reads, the only shred of substantiation is one of the accuser's acquaintances from the team (possibly a friend) vouching for the accuser's claims. Not a very strong case without something further.
Sure, but you're also ignoring the context around NW football, which now has a ton of different players alleging bad behavior on the part of the coaches both explicitly as well as implicitly (by not stopping what were pretty degrading hazing practices). This isn't some random story from a former player about a former coach; it's part and parcel of a larger series of complaints, many of them named and with corroboration, of a toxic environment on that team.
Again, I'm all for due process but I swear this place circles the wagons around current coaches and former players in ways they simply don't with literally any other individuals. Yes, if this all turns out to be fabricated then by all means I hope Ingalls gets his validation in public. But it's also not fair to treat this most recent claim in a vacuum.
Wasn't most of the hazing being done by the players, not the coaches (although surely some coaches/staff had to know, if not participated as well)? There were many players coming out with the hazing allegations against the program, but if the racist culture were pervasive (specifically comments by this coach/staffer) one would expect to hear more than just one person and his friend.
We will need to see what facts come out.
You claim that people *here* are quick to "circle the wagons" around those close to the program, but it seems even more accurate to note that, both *here* and elsewhere, people are even quicker to convict and condemn someone based on little more than hearsay and innuendo... especially in socially sensitive matters (where it is not strictly a case of criminal law). A person's entire career and livelihood can be destroyed by nothing more than rumor and social media pressure. People want to "shoot first and ask questions later", but that rarely works out well for the person in the cross-hairs, regardless of Innocennce or guilt.
I was responding to Sal and his assertion that we need to do a better job of due diligence. My question was how far do you go back while none of the Northwestern hazing issues were known until 3-4 weeks ago.
Without more information, including proof I don't know how you just fire someone without cause for something that may or may not have happened in 2008. Not to mention, how successful at hiring staff will you be in the future if everyone thinks you fire people just because you can.
Sorry, should have added that if it's proven to be true, but I'm basing this claim not just on the comment listed here but the additional allegations in the article. As for "single accusation", I also find it hard to imagine that if he said such a comment that it was the first and only time he shared that sentiment. The article notes the following:
Diaz, an offensive lineman for the Wildcats from 2005 to 2008, alleges that he was subjected to hazing that included the mocking of his Mexican heritage along with "microaggressions" from comments made by former offensive line coach Bret Ingalls as well as sexualized acts that have previously been alleged by other former players.
He says several Northwestern coaches witnessed hazing incidents or should have been aware of them. The lawsuit claims that two former assistants -- Ingalls and James Patton, who also coached the offensive line -- made "racist, embarrassing, degrading, and harassing remarks" toward Diaz and other players. According to the lawsuit, Ingalls and Matt MacPherson, a longtime Northwestern assistant still with the program, witnessed hazing incidents and "took no action to address and/or prevent" them from happening.
So again, this isn't some one-and-done comment made in jest, at least per the lawsuit. He hasn't filed the lawsuit yet, apparently, so I don't have a full list of the claims but the player listed both Ingalls and the TE coach as guys who made racist comments toward him and also ignored the various other abuses going on.
This also isn't all that analogous to your situation in that there are multiple former players plus a law firm that independently investigated NW football coming out and saying, to various degrees, it was a toxic place with a lot of abuses. I'm sorry you were falsely accused but I'm not inclined to give NW coaches the benefit of the doubt about anything that happened on that team. YMMV but these two situations feel pretty different to me.
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
How exactly would you like them to do this? Ask every new hire...so, uh, do you think any of your former players, or like anybody at all from your past, is going to come out with some nasty allegations about you at some point in the future?
Is this a verifiable claim or is the university going to fire (or otherwise punish) him for one person's claim of statements made over a decade ago? People seem to love firings these days for alleged improprieties... regardless if there is any actual hard evidence of them.
Sal posting on the Spanish Blood Laws in...5...4...3...2...
August 2nd, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
Let me guess, the NCAA will now want Harbaugh suspended for two years, along with a five year bowl ban and relegation to G5 status.