Murray plays QB at UM this year..
OU up to 7 heismans now. Tying USC and OSU I believe.
if Murray played at UM this year what do his stats look like? I don’t think we’d run him as much. He probably gets 4-5 more Passing TDs.
we still probably lose to UM and definitely OSU. We stomp NU though instead of a close game.
man UM needs a new passing game. Hopefully Harbaugh is forced to make some promises on O style to keep Shea and we reinvent the O with our Big 3 WRs
im confident D Brown will make adjustment s
December 8th, 2018 at 9:17 PM ^
Oops meant to say lose to ND
December 8th, 2018 at 9:19 PM ^
OU now tied with ND and OSU not USC
December 8th, 2018 at 9:20 PM ^
He'd look almost exactly like Shea. Shea is a big time talent, just like DPJ. You'd almost never know it watching them in this system.
December 8th, 2018 at 9:25 PM ^
I know we should make an outside the box hire like ummmm....Rich Rodriguez, maybe that would work??
December 8th, 2018 at 10:09 PM ^
Yes, because the only two possibilities are the current offense and Rich Rod.
December 8th, 2018 at 11:01 PM ^
Why is it that whenever someone makes a totally valid observation about the obvious flaws in Michigan's offense that some knucklehead interprets it as an endorsement for hiring RichRod 2?
December 8th, 2018 at 11:18 PM ^
Because there’s a large contingent of fairly stupid “down in front” types here.
December 8th, 2018 at 10:21 PM ^
This place is amazing. You speak the truth, you get downvoted.
December 9th, 2018 at 8:02 AM ^
What does that say about someone who got upvotes tho???
December 9th, 2018 at 9:53 AM ^
Yeah, it's gotten bad here. You can tell that the emotional investment and reality isn't lining up anymore.
December 8th, 2018 at 11:16 PM ^
Mostly going 11-2 or 10-3 is much better than the recent past. If that’s all Harbaugh can do, it’s fine and we should probably roll with it. He will get the program to a nice spot for the next guy to (hopefully) take it to the next level.
However, “one step better than Iowa” isn’t what anyone was expecting when Harbaugh came. We’re clearly the second best team in the B1G and that’s better than losing to Rutgers, but still a bit of a let down.
December 9th, 2018 at 9:07 AM ^
Part of the “issue” is that Michigan tries to do things the “right way.” Which makes it nearly impossible to compete with the likes of OSU, Georgia, and Bama on an annual basis. The ceiling for a clean program seems to be that second tier.
Its likely a matter of whether you want to be a program that does things the “right way” and goes 11-2 or 10-3, or if we’re willing to give up some of our moral/ethical high ground and “buy” some championship seasons.
December 9th, 2018 at 9:16 AM ^
"Doing things the right way" didn't lose us those games to Notre Dame and OSU.
December 9th, 2018 at 4:11 PM ^
According to Mgoblog, Michigan needs to recruit 32 5* players every-year to not lose by 24 to OSU.
December 9th, 2018 at 2:23 AM ^
Maybe not. Patterson seemed to struggle reading zones and often didn't throw to open receivers. He also short armed a lot of open throws. He ran out of the pocket unnecessarily. Murray did not have those issues.
I don't think Patterson would have won the Heisman if he had played at OU this season.
December 9th, 2018 at 9:30 AM ^
Do you know why he has trouble with zones? Because he never sees them in practice - the exact same reason Wilton looked like shit against Florida’s zone in the opening game. Even Harbaugh publicly acknowledged it.
It’s completely false that Michigan just needs better players to look dominant. We have an elite QB throwing to elite WRs. It doesn’t really get better than what Michigan has right now. That’s a huge problem and why the staff can’t recruit elite players in those positions.
December 9th, 2018 at 10:38 AM ^
You know that the offense does indeed go against zone right? Harbaugh was talking about last year fall camp when the ones are going against the ones and only doing what they do. In season the scout teams practice what other teams like to do, as in zone coverage.
As far as your last paragraph, Michigan needs better players on the line to look dominate. It doesn't matter if you have a stud QB and wr if your line is iffy in pass pro.
December 9th, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^
Scout team freshman and walk-ons aren't going to prepare Shea to read a defense at full speed against elite talent.
The fact that the ones never (or at best very infrequently) show anything except cover 1 is the problem. Harbaugh knows it. There's no mystery.
It's not Shea's limitation. It's systematic.
December 9th, 2018 at 11:13 AM ^
The system is the problem as some of us see it; unfortunately our coach has a different opinion with a run heavy and typically run first offense.
Speaking of football, has anyone heard one word from Don Brown since the OSU game?
December 8th, 2018 at 9:22 PM ^
Oklahoma sure has a nack for recruiting and developing ELITE quarterbacks.
I bet that’s fun.
December 8th, 2018 at 9:25 PM ^
Getting a walk-on from TTU to transfer
And a Texas A&M transfer.
December 8th, 2018 at 9:27 PM ^
Mayfield and Murray were not Oklahoma commits out of HS.
Oklahoma has now rehabilitated 2 different QBs and made them into Heisman winners.
Look up Texas Tech Baker Mayfield vs Oklahoma Baker Mayfield.
And now look up Texas A&M Kyler Murray vs Oklahoma Kyler Murray.
This alone could be the basis for a detailed case study on how playing for a dumbass coach like Kevin Sumlin fucks up a player and how playing for the right coach/system can elevate a player to hyper-elite status.
Meanwhile, Georgia's sophomore QB Jake Fromm put up better stats (even after excluding the SEC Championship Game) than a junior Shea Patterson did.
Honestly, outside of Rudock's 2nd half surge, I'm not impressed by Harbaugh's QB development at Michigan. (I know this will be an unpopular opinion but it's rooted in stats. We turned Shea Patterson into an efficient game manager but a game manager nonetheless.)
If Jake Fromm is regarded as a game manager but he puts up better numbers than Shea Patterson despite being a game manager then...uh...yeah...I think you get my point.
December 8th, 2018 at 10:06 PM ^
Sumlin was Johnny Manziel's coach, but whatever.
December 8th, 2018 at 10:18 PM ^
Sumlin is a fraud.
His rep is built on a half-truth. People look at his resume and see "co-OC at Oklahoma" but they don't know that it was only a title. Kevin Wilson was the true OC of the high-powered Oklahoma passing attacks.
December 8th, 2018 at 10:52 PM ^
"Sumlin is a fraud."
No evidence, fact, stats, to back up this statement at all. You're just talking out of your ass. Here is a fact for you. Dude was coach of the year 3 times and 2 different conferences. None of those awards was for "Co-OC at Oklahoma when Kevin Wilson was really running things." Is he a great head coach? No. But how many of those are around? To say he's a fraud because he couldn't win the SEC West at A&M--which is in the same division as Bama and LSU--is bullshit.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/kevin-sumlin-1.html
December 8th, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^
I didn't want to have to post my credentials but:
- I coached HS football in Cali and won district titles coached in state championship tournaments.
- I'm a former NFL scout and assistant.
- One of my best friends was on Sumlin's Houston staff.
You won't hear me yapping about insider status because I'm not. I'm a proxy.
You don't want to believe my info, it's fine. I understand.
But if you're ever in the Texas area, I strongly encourage you to ask around.
December 8th, 2018 at 11:14 PM ^
Hey, I hear you. But none of that explains away the fact that his offenses have been productive at all his stops, which seemingly contradicts "Sumlin is a fraud."
December 9th, 2018 at 1:24 AM ^
Agree. "Fraud" was an overreach.
December 9th, 2018 at 3:27 AM ^
Ok, sure.
There's an explanation for that. (If you want the entire story, read the entire post. If you want an answer for why "his offenses have been productive at all his stops" then simply skip to the part under the dashes.)
Bob Stoops was Spurrier's DC at Florida and Spurrier ran the precursor to the spread with the Florida fun-n-gun offense which put up big numbers in the 90s. This made an impression on Stoops.
When Stoops was hired in his mid 30s by Oklahoma (despite having no HC experience), he smartly hired Mike Leach to be his OC for the 99 season. Around that time, Joe Tiller's OC Jim Chaney also introduced the spread to the Big Ten because he recruited Drew Brees from Texas and encountered the spread.
Leach was only at Oklahoma for one season but he laid the foundations of the air raid in Oklahoma and Stoops has continued to build upon it by hiring great OCs. Lincoln Riley is the latest.
So where does Sumlin come in?
Sumlin at Purdue from 98-2000 (where he saw a primitive version of the spread) and eventually found his way to Oklahoma by way of Texas A&M.
Sumlin was there when Kevin Wilson was Oklahoma OC, saw what Leach was doing at Texas Tech, applied the same ideas, and then set new records for offensive production with Sam Bradford.
------
Sumlin, despite having no HC experience, was able to get the Houston job.
Sumlin smartly hires young, talented OCs from the Air Raid offense. He has almost no input on the offense because his approach is laissez faire.
- Dana Holgorsen was a Leach assistant at Texas Tech.
- Kliff Kingsbury played for Leach.
- Jake Spavital was a GA under Holgorsen and Kingsbury at Houston.
This season was the first year Sumlin as HC didn't have an Air Raid-trained OC. Noel Mazzone is outside of the Air Raid string. Arizona finished 5-7 despite having an excellent dual threat QB Khalil Tate.
December 9th, 2018 at 5:38 AM ^
Khalil Tate was a 1 man show last year. He was fun to watch. He disappeared this year.
Thanks for your insight. There's no doubt Kevin Wilson is a fantastic offensive mind. What a great job he did at Indiana. Look at the jump Ohio St's offense took starting last year with him. And look what he did to Don Brown 2 weeks ago.
Meanwhile, Coach Harbaugh keeps hanging in there with Pep Hamilton. I still shake my head over 0 points scored in the 3rd qtr, after halftime adjustments, against Ohio St.
December 9th, 2018 at 4:56 PM ^
Jesus--did Sumlin steal your girl or something at one of those stops?
You say Sumlin got a job at Houston despite having no head coaching experience. But Houston just hired Tom Herman. So...what's your point there? Sumlin's teams had prolific offenses because he hired great assistants. Yes. That's kinda how being a head coach works.
Another point you made: Sumlin was inspired to run spread because he saw it was successful at places he worked. Um...so how is that a knock on him. Isn't that a positive?
Again--not seeing how "fraud" applies to what seem to be astute assessments of what the future of offense is and smart hiring practices. Again--is he a great coach? Probably not. But nothing you've argued says he's a fraud to me.
December 8th, 2018 at 11:51 PM ^
lol @ “I didn’t want to have to post my credentials...” I’m not discounting your opinion or questioning the authenticity of your claim, but you definitely went out of your way to flaunt your credentials.
December 9th, 2018 at 1:31 AM ^
They seemed pretty flaunt-worthy to me. I'd like to hear more of his opinion on football topics, frankly. We always hear from the same 3 or 4 people.
December 9th, 2018 at 2:18 AM ^
The same know it all idiots are the experts on MGoBlog and no you else can chime in. No wonder this blog is tanking. I love how the same guys who never played a down of football tell everyone that harbaugh’s offense is better than Oklahoma’s, Alabama ‘s, OSU’s, Clemson’s, etc. and yet Harbzufh has won absolutely nothing. And that’s absolute.
December 9th, 2018 at 3:41 AM ^
So which username were you before? This really does sound like Maizen.
December 9th, 2018 at 2:11 PM ^
I stopped by just to give you an extra neg after your stupid claim that Rashan Gary has stopped going to class. He's a 2 time All Academic B1G who chose Michigan over the money offers from other schools because his mother thought a Michigan degree was important for him. According to John Bacon (published on 12/7) he's close to getting that degree.
"What most fans don’t know, but Gary’s teammates do, is that other schools offered Gary big money under the table, but he turned it down because his mom thought Michigan would be the best place to get his degree. She was right. Gary has made the Academic All-Big Ten team twice, and his degree is within reach."
December 9th, 2018 at 2:28 AM ^
So somebody gives evidence back listening the better credentials Sumlin has, and you “go there” with your credentials? If you were good at your jobs, why you milling around these here blogger parts?
Mel Tucker blew as DC in NFL but has just been handed a college team. Bad coach or fraud as Georgia DC? Locksley at MD was a failure at New Mexico and UM, but great at Bama. Fraud?
Tell us how your credentials make your already written unsupported opinions any more valid now. I’m someone who values logic and evidence over “I didn’t want to do this, but I did more than stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night” guys.
December 9th, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
I didn't want to post my credentials either, but here we are.
- I too lived in Cali and played at Hollywood Star in Santa Monica
- I was a member of the "Seattle Seven" in college.
- I co-authored the original Port Huron statement, not the compromised second draft, and occupied various administration buildings.
December 8th, 2018 at 11:20 PM ^
Harbaugh turned Wilton into a decent QB. He’s a good qb coach.
December 8th, 2018 at 11:52 PM ^
It helps when ZERO teams in your conference play defense and you can put up video game numbers. That said, glad Haskins didn't win
December 8th, 2018 at 11:58 PM ^
What do you think Michigan’s defense looks like playing those teams? IU would be a shit Big 12 team and we didn’t exactly stop them cold. OSU was obviously a disaster.
December 9th, 2018 at 3:41 AM ^
You aren't impressed with Harbaugh's QB development because that's all he wants is an efficient game manager.
Harbaugh better make changes soon or he will get run out of town if he trots that same lame offense out next year.
December 8th, 2018 at 10:50 PM ^
And yet they field a GERG-like defense that can’t stop anyone. Trade-offs, pal. Did you see them giving up 40-50 points a week to bad teams? I sure did.
December 9th, 2018 at 1:37 AM ^
I'm beginning to wonder of some of those "bad" Big 12 defenses aren't actually just victims of outstanding offenses they have to face.
I'm suspicious that Michigan's "elite" defense would actually be so elite in the Big12.
We make fun of the Big 12 for playing bad defense, but maybe the real truth is that the Big Ten plays bad offense.
December 9th, 2018 at 2:16 AM ^
The defenses are definitely bad. Horrible tackling, positioning, everything.
Which is not to say that Michigan's defense wouldn't have such sterling numbers against some of those QBs. But some of those QBs would look pretty rough getting devoured by Chase and company.
Why Michigan's DL couldn't get anything going against an OL that is known to troubled (Minnesota's DL, which is dreadful, was in OSU's backfield all day!) will haunt me for a long time.
December 9th, 2018 at 2:49 AM ^
We miss Mo Hurst more than we realize.
Without a player like that, OSU could provide help on our DE's. They almost got there anyway time after time, but Haskins does not need much time so it was enough.
Problem is, most seasons you won't have a player like that. What's the plan when that's the case?
A defense predicated on flustering college-level QBs into mistakes and hurries, needs a well rep'd Plan B for when that does not happen.
December 9th, 2018 at 5:53 AM ^
We did have a player like that. The problem is he was playing DE when he should have been moved inside long ago.
December 9th, 2018 at 8:56 AM ^
"Why Michigan's DL couldn't get anything going against an OL that is known to troubled (Minnesota's DL, which is dreadful, was in OSU's backfield all day!) will haunt me for a long time."
Unfortunately, this isn't a new phenomenon.
Guess how many sacks our vaunted defense—led by Woodley, Branch, Harris, Hall, and Burgess—got against OSU in 2006?
One, by Rondell Biggs. In 41 passing attempts by Troy Smith. Meanwhile, OSU sacked Henne 4 times.
How many sacks did our vaunted 2006 defense have against USC in the Rose Bowl?
One, by Woodley, in 45 passing attempts by USC. Meanwhile, USC sacked Henne 5 times.
So, in the two games against the best competition in 2006, our vaunted defense managed to sack the opposing QB twice in 86 passing attempts, while Henne was sacked 9 times.
I'll be very surprised if we don't repeat this underwhelming performance against Florida in the Peach Bowl. Given our lousy bowl game record since 1/1/1970 of 17 wins against 25 losses, I'm not going out on a limb to predict a loss down in Atlanta.
December 8th, 2018 at 9:23 PM ^
Does OP think think Murray gets 4-5 more passing TDs on top of his 40 passing TDs?
Or does OP think Murray gets 4-5 more passing TDs on Shea's 21 passing TDs?
--------
Also, does OP know that no Michigan QB has yet passed for 30 or more passing TDs in a season?
Look it up. It's sad how Oklahoma, which was once known as the best wishbone team under Switzer, is now miles ahead of Michigan in fielding an elite college passing offense.
I'm quite bitter about it.
Oklahoma's Heisman QBs in the past 20 years:
Jason White
Sam Bradford
Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray
December 8th, 2018 at 9:30 PM ^
The wishbone comment made me sad.