Michigan State Snowflakes: The Coaching
October 30th, 2021 at 4:31 PM ^
Jim Harbaugh's entire tenure at Michigan was perfectly encapsulated within this 60 minute game.
How you can defend him staying on- I don't know.
During the 3rd quarter, I looked at the other people I was watching this game with and said "We are the better team. Top to bottom." The D was constantly getting pressure. The offense was making great plays over the middle and doing things they typically didn't do.
Then, they got punched in the mouth, and the ENTIRE FUCKING HOUSE crumbled. This is the exact. same. thing. that happens with this game in every, single big game.
You are a fantastic poster. But I don't think you could type this out with a straight face.
To the point about not winning a national title- expectations change. As this season rolled on, we began to dream that this team COULD be the one that gets over the hump. And no one is asking for a natty. We just want to see them win the fucking Big Ten. Once.
This program is all smoke in mirrors. Just as it always has been.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:04 PM ^
How you can defend him staying on- I don't know.
I called for him to be fired last year. Michigan chose to stick with him, adopting a new staff strategy. We simply haven't seen how that strategy will play out yet.
During the 3rd quarter, I looked at the other people I was watching this game with and said "We are the better team. Top to bottom." The D was constantly getting pressure. The offense was making great plays over the middle and doing things they typically didn't do.
So you agree that the team played well in many ways. Sounds like they came to play. But the game isn't won in 3 quarters.
A number of people discussed the real possibility that Michigan would look like the better team as a whole today, but that Michigan State would be tough to beat in the RZ (a long-running problem we've had this year) and that they hit big plays, and that could tip the difference. That's exactly what happened, with only the frequency of scoring the question.
To the point about not winning a national title- expectations change. As this season rolled on, we began to dream that this team COULD be the one that gets over the hump. And no one is asking for a natty. We just want to see them win the fucking Big Ten. Once.
There was no rational reason for expectations to change. Washington is not a good team. Wisconsin was a decent road win, but they're not great. Meanwhile, Michigan State had just as good of a resume as we did. Our hardest games were all in front of us, and this was one of them. People changed expectations because of feelingsball, not because the team actually looked like a national title contender.
Nobody before the season would have predicted 11-1. The only record this game really keeps us from achieving is 11-1; everything else is still to play for. Now, things might go south, and we will react accordingly if they do; losing to Indiana or Maryland would be a disaster, and at this point Michigan looks like a clearly better team than Penn State and a loss there would be quite disappointing.
But we're not there yet.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:36 PM ^
Yet Michigan State was picked to finish last. But look what Mel tucker did. Again it’s the coaching staff.
October 30th, 2021 at 6:08 PM ^
What did you pick Michigan to do?
October 31st, 2021 at 8:38 AM ^
8-4 with a win over MSU
October 30th, 2021 at 6:24 PM ^
Why does our fan base want to be Iowa with cool helmets?
October 30th, 2021 at 8:59 PM ^
We're now even Iowa. Iowa beats OSU occasionally.
October 30th, 2021 at 9:19 PM ^
It's very simple. Risk aversion.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:33 PM ^
Seven years of the same result at any other big program would be unacceptable. If this was his first or second year, understandable. But seven years of this seems to be a pattern. I don’t know about you but I’m sick of mediocrity. You may be OK with it but I’m not. And I think as Michigan fans we should be tired of settling
October 30th, 2021 at 4:40 PM ^
He's horrible in rivalry games. You act like this game was played in a vacuum. It wasn't. He's 3-4 against MSU. MSU hasn't been a top 10 team for all of those games, and Jim's still lost most of them. Unless Harbaugh is a big favorite, he's losing the MSU game. That's the reality after seven seasons. But sure, let's keep him. Maybe after two decades he can get to .55 or even .60 against MSU and beat OSU once, if the chips fall just right for him.
October 30th, 2021 at 10:57 PM ^
Let's not kid ourselves -- Harbaugh lost to State last year AS a big favorite.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:41 PM ^
This is a very reasonable take, but we don’t have a reasonable fan base. The game plan was good enough to win. Other than the substitutions on defense going awry and putting JJ in to start a game sealing drive, there weren’t many head scratching decisions. I wish the red zone offense was better and we could have turned some of the field goals into touchdowns, but it’s also difficult to convert when you never get PI calls to go your way to give the team a fresh set of downs. It was a tough loss especially given the way the officiating was completely one sided. But the team is young, the coaches are better this year, and it’s only one loss. There’s still a lot of season to play.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:20 PM ^
The fan base is more than reasonable. Harbaugh is 20-21 against power 5 teams with a winning record. 2021 MSU is more impressive than anything Harbaugh has done at Michigan.
Dudes a loser who plays for field position and squanders talent. Mel Tucker, who as easy as it was to make fun of that hire when he was 5-7 at Colorado, is a winner.
“Lot left to play for” = meh bowl game that will excite nobody. Pack it in - season is done.
October 31st, 2021 at 11:11 AM ^
I agree "meh bowl game that will excite nobody"...but lets be real, even if we beat Sparty we STILL lose to OSU and don't play for the big 10 title and still go to an also ran bowl game that nobody will care about. As long as OSU is the varsity and everybody else in the Big10 is the JV, there will be little mystery as who will move on to the final four.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:28 PM ^
Unreasonable??? We gave him 7 fucking years! 7!
What other program in Michigan’s stratosphere would do that?!
Name me one! I can only think of OSU under Cooper.
October 30th, 2021 at 6:27 PM ^
Cooper was a FAR better coach than Harbaugh.
October 31st, 2021 at 9:07 PM ^
No shit. Cooper is a hall of fame coach who apart from one real shaky season was fired because he was 10-2-1 vs Michigan.
and do you know what OSU did? They took a chance. They hired a fucking 1-AA coach who was a proven winner.
Not some NFL retread, or failed coordinator, not some MAC hack; a guy with an impressive record at a lower level.
They did their fucking homework.
3 national title appearance (1 win) 106-22 record and the complete owning of Michigan on the football field.
The Michigan AD is too moneydrunk and soft to ever try this again after Rich Rod.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:28 PM ^
Unreasonable??? We gave him 7 fucking years! 7!
What other program in Michigan’s stratosphere would do that?!
Name me one! I can only think of OSU under Cooper.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:41 PM ^
He's horrible in rivalry games. You act like this game was played in a vacuum. It wasn't. He's 3-4 against MSU. MSU hasn't been a top 10 team for all of those games, and Jim's still lost most of them. Unless Harbaugh is a big favorite, he's losing the MSU game. That's the reality after seven seasons. But sure, let's keep him. Maybe after two decades he can get to .55 or even .60 against MSU and beat OSU once, if the chips fall just right for him.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:18 PM ^
Very well put. The vacuum comment is spot on. People fed up with Harbaugh are so due to the full context of his tenure here. It's called seeing the whole forrest through the trees.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:36 PM ^
Coaching had nothing to do with dropped passes (the one Corum dropped in the first half was big), misses on fade routes to the corners, bad tackling, and some poorly chosen angles to Walker. It was a team loss. McDonald needs to learn about substitution rules in college vs. the pros. The defense let us down today.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:37 PM ^
When OSU whips us by 30, again, in a stadium that has only red in it when the clock hits zero, he goes to 3-10 against our rivals. You simply cannot keep him, or even argue in favor of it at that point. He won't be with Manuel making the call, but he should be coaching for his job against OSU.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:57 PM ^
a 10-2 season would be about the best result we could hope for, and that is absolutely still on the table. As long as he's the coach, you want to see growth, and we've seen growth. It was visible today.
You sound confident we can beat PSU in Happy Valley. You also sound convinced that we won't have a letdown next week against an Indiana team lost to MSU by the same number of points UM did. Indiana shut down KW and will pose problems for UM. Maryland also just beat Indiana and we have to play there the week before OSU. I think you're assuming we are going to win a bunch of games that won't be easy. I would be overjoyed if we beat Indiana, PSU, & Maryland. I'm not confident we will. But, we both agree on an OSU loss. This could easily be an 8-4 or 9-3 team just like everyone predicted pre-season. Are you still as excited about JH's future if he winds up 8-4 or 9-3?
October 30th, 2021 at 6:10 PM ^
Stephenrjking agree 98%. My only quibble unless Cade was hurt was putting JJ in again after first fumble. He was too amped up. But I don't think you can blame the coaches for this one overall. I think the depth at DL caught up to us. Hinton and SMith were gassed in the 4th.
October 30th, 2021 at 6:55 PM ^
It's bad enough that we always lose to our main rival OSU every year but now we are getting regularly beaten by our lesser talented instate rival. I guess we just have to be happy with being a 3rd or 4th place eastern division team.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:21 PM ^
Imagine being 0-2 against Tucker now.
This loss at least I can jump back on the fire Harbaugh train again. I put it away for this game but they still suck so.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:21 PM ^
On third down the last drive, we should have thrown short for the first down instead of throwing deep. JJ was in for 2 too many plays. 552 yards plus of offense should have been enough but was not with one too many field goals.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:24 PM ^
The worst part is we will be looking for a new President. Which will make the AD uncertain for a while. So, no one is gonna want to take this job. High expectations from the fans, a big in-state rival, get you butt handed to you by OSU every year, uncertain leadership = hard pass from top tier candidates.
Bottom line - he may be the best we can do. Let that sink in.
On another note, I see MGoBlog is still running a server from the last time we won anything.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:24 PM ^
I am so sick of 9 and 10 win seasons. And losing to rivals. Losing in big games. Just not being able to finish a game when we are up. We lack the toughness other teams seem to have. Enough is enough. It’s time for Michigan to move on from Harbaugh. I don’t hate him, but it’s just not working anymore. (Or ever in that matter)
October 30th, 2021 at 4:37 PM ^
I assume that they are thinking of this like one might a car - once it is past warranty and paid for, you just drive it until that day when it spontaneously combusts in the drive for no reason other than someone leered at it in an uncomfortable manner.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:35 PM ^
WM has been great as an overall AD. Outside of today's football game, Michigan has been killing it. There's a lot of reasons for a coach to avoid Michigan, but an unstable AD is not one of them.
October 30th, 2021 at 11:10 PM ^
I’m pissed too but the alternative to 9-10 win seasons can be always be considerably worse. I would be looking for a way to let Harbaugh find a graceful exit in a few years so that we can start anew without make it look like we are a program in chaos, so that we can salvage our roster and not scare off recruits. Maybe boot him upstairs like what happened with Bo and Lloyd.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:24 PM ^
The worst part is we will be looking for a new President. Which will make the AD uncertain for a while. So, no one is gonna want to take this job. High expectations from the fans, a big in-state rival, get you butt handed to you by OSU every year, uncertain leadership = hard pass from top tier candidates.
Bottom line - he may be the best we can do. Let that sink in.
On another note, I see MGoBlog is still running a server from the last time we won anything.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:32 PM ^
How do you know he's the best we can do?
I don't think there was a single person taking Mel Tucker seriously when they hired him.
You have no idea how any coach will react with a new situation.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:06 PM ^
I know b/c of common sense. The top tier candidates in any field don’t come to unstable situations. Also, who is gonna lead the search. Warde? You think he’s gonna pull in a top notch up and coming name? He will be safe and cover his butt with football alumni so he can say it was a consensus selection (and not his). So, we would stay in the family. How happy are you gonna be with Mike Hart in his first gig or Loeffler who is currently losing games at BGSU? Then, we are basically Nebraska talking fondly about when we won 8 games a year.
Don’t get me wrong. I’d love a change It’s just that I have zero hope we improve. Frankly, I have zero hope we are anything but 3rd or 4th best in the B1G east every damn year.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:26 PM ^
Michigan is 7-1 after barely losing a rivalry game, on the road, against a very good team that has a great player, in a season where many were predicting 7-5, or something like that. And people are enraged because the coaches are supposedly awful. I really wonder about guys who get this angry over the result of a college football game. Empty lives? I don’t know.
It’s not stunning that Michigan lost. Both teams are good, but MSU was just a little better today. Walker was dynamic and, mainly because of him, MSU didn’t have to settle for field goals like Michigan did. McCarthy’s fumble was big, but he also threw the kind of TD pass that McNamara has had trouble with. McNamara played, by far, his best game, but his turnover ended their chances when they still had time. And then there’s the strip sack TD the officials took away. It was a team loss. None of that, however, makes this a terrible season, and none of it comes anywhere close to justifying the “fire everyone” rants.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:40 PM ^
Your argument isn't bad merited on this season in and of itself. BUT, in the entirety of Harbaugh's coaching career at UM I would hazard that firing him at the end of the season is warranted.
He is now 3-4 against MSU and 0-5 vs OSU, likely to be 0-6 at the conclusion of the season. He's 2-13 in games against Top 10 teams, he's won only one bowl game. Even then, that might not be terrible if he was at Rutgers, but he's at Michigan where we pride ourselves on being a football blue blood.
The icing on the cake is that he is now 0-2 vs a coach who didn't want to go to MSU until they gave him more money and is highly likely bolting to LSU given the opportunity. This coach inherited a far worse situation than Harbaugh, brought in 37 transfers this year and somehow managed to hobble together a pretty good team. Meanwhile, Harbaugh in year 7 is still trying to figure things out.
This is where we stand. If we are ok with just being a team that wins 7-10 games a year and rarely beating our rivals, then you should stand with Jim. But, if you are one who wants to see Michigan on the same level as OSU, Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, etc then its time to get the coach who can get it done. Too often I see posters on here make fun of other teams, Oklahoma and no defense comes to mind, yet we haven't sniffed a Big Ten championship in well over a decade, beat OSU but twice in 2 decades and have a LOSING record to MSU in the past decade. But if we are ok with 8 win seasons then lets keep that string going because we almost got that one nailed down.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:52 PM ^
‘“…but he’s at Michigan where we pride ourselves on being a football blue blood.” Let me remind you that in the seven years prior to Harbaugh’s arrival, the blue bloods were 46-42, and that included an 11-2 season. In his seven seasons, Harbaugh is 56-26. He’s also had the bad luck of arriving at Michigan after OSU transitioned from an being excellent program to being one of the 2-3 truly elite programs. Be careful what you wish for.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:58 PM ^
The Michigan-OSU dynamic isn't even a factor here at this point. Harbaugh can't even handle Michigan State...forget about even bothering with OSU.
October 31st, 2021 at 1:56 PM ^
And how many of those blue bloods consistently lose to their rivals, even in that hand picked time frame? How many consistently lose on the road to ranked teams? How many consistently lose as underdogs? How many still have the same game philosophy issues today that they have had since the start of the coaches regime? How many give their coaches this long of a leash when they can't win titles, beat rivals, win as underdogs or on the road? The answer is none.
We cannot continue to rest on our laurels from 30, 40, 100 years ago. Sports are and always will be "what have you done for me lately" and in this case Michigan football just hasn't done much in 20 years. Harbaugh was brought in specifically to win conference championships, beat our rivals and compete for National Championships. At this point he has just missed the mark but there is no close enough in CFB, you either win or you're out.
Now, if the powers that be and the fanbase are happy with just being competitive and hanging on to Harbaugh, then so be it and by gosh lets go out with the expectation that we will win 8, maybe 10 games in any given year, lose to our rivals and get into a NYE bowl that we may or likely not, win. But do NOT give us the expectation that there will be genuine hope to win the Big Ten or compete for a national championship while beating MSU or OSU. Michigan is no longer a relevant team in CFB.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:04 PM ^
Michigan has been a terrible to mediocre football program since 2007. The return to glory you speak of is not happening dude.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:42 PM ^
I’m genuinely curious, in your view, when does the losing to rivals become unacceptable? Is sub-500 after 7 years fine? Is it sub-333 after 10 years that it goes too far?
I don’t think I’m crazy for being enraged that we can’t beat a rival in Year 7
October 30th, 2021 at 4:43 PM ^
Amen, these fair weather fans or more likely closet MSU and OSU fans are the only ones posting fire Harbaugh, play JJ etc. We are still 7-1 and the teams is still in good shape going into the final stretch of the season. Tough loss for sure on many levels, but I’m a proud Michigan Alum and a real fan that fully supports the team, the coaches and will be rooting for us to pick ourselves up and finish this season strong.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:48 PM ^
Yes, we are 7–1 and will be lucky to finish better than 8-4.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:32 PM ^
You're crazy if you think Michigan is losing to Indiana or Maryland. They might lose to PSU, but should be favored. I wouldn't even rule out an upset of OSU.
But fuck me for being optimistic, I guess.
October 30th, 2021 at 5:52 PM ^
I think we’re all a bit crazy to care so much about this silliness. But, i do think we could lose one of those. IU might have Penix back. Also, we were in a tight game with Rutgers.
October 30th, 2021 at 7:04 PM ^
Every year we think we’ll have a shot against Ohio set to save our season.
And it never works out. At least since the 90s
October 30th, 2021 at 5:20 PM ^
Look guys, you can't expect Harbaugh, in years six and seven, to get a win against Mel Tucker. I mean, look at what Tucker has to work with: MSU won 7 whole games in 2019 and then 2 whole games in 2020. Meanwhile, Jim's only had seven years to try and compete with that. He just needs more time and some different defensive coaches. That's bound to work.
October 30th, 2021 at 4:27 PM ^
If neither teams had coaches, Michigan would’ve won easily. That pretty much says everything about Jim Harbaugh.