Michigan sentencing guidelines (fact thread, not reaction)
I have never done criminal law, but I to had memorize some of it for the bar, and I was just drinking with some prosecutors (not for Washtenaw) and we scooted for home before the serious drinking time started tonight.
Michigan has strong sentencing guidelines, like the federal government. Think of it as income tax rules, but for crimes. So what the criminal pleas to (or is convicted of) is the start, but then all the variables are added in. Then that report is given to the judge, and the defense and prosecution argue about the variables scoring, and that gives the judge the range.
Some of the variables are set in the plea agreement, and some are set by the court. It all adds up to give the range cells on the grids.
The range is in months, or in some of the resulting scoring cells the judge can award no time.
So these guys are on video, and it is likely they will plead down.
I am not arguing about what they deserve, or what U of M did in the past, or MSU's past. Or sports, or the Big Ten. The professional assessment I got tonight is these guys will plead down, and none of them will get time. But Khary will probably get some supervision.
https://www.courts.michigan.gov/49c7d9/siteassets/offices/mji/felony-sentencing-online-resources/2021-mi-sentencing-guidelines-manual.pdf
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^
Beat Ohio!!!
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:27 PM ^
Wow. People are drinking hard tonight. Kudos.
November 23rd, 2022 at 10:44 PM ^
Wonder how many couches are being sacrificed tonight since the story broke.
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:31 PM ^
sentencing guidelines are only for felonies, so only the one helmet-attacker is implicated. he will most likely get a HYTA disposition and do little, if any, time.
glad they got charged. i'm guessing there is a mountain of evidence we would like to see - maybe even sparties being honest about what happened, not to mention a number of videos that clearly lay out what happened. having charged 7 guys, that seems like it had to be the background evidence to do so.
November 23rd, 2022 at 10:25 PM ^
the only way that 7 guys on their team will see postseason action
November 24th, 2022 at 6:12 AM ^
Sadly MSU will get a bowl even if they don't win Saturday. They may or mat accept, but they will get an invite
November 24th, 2022 at 7:54 AM ^
you should use the subjunctive rather than the future indicative
November 24th, 2022 at 9:42 AM ^
I wonder if the actual bowl eligibility rules will be back in effect - at least 6 wins and .500 record? If they are, MSU can't go. Rutgers was a Covid year exception.
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:43 PM ^
With no priors it is highly unlikely any will get time. Khary will definitely get supervised probation, probably for one or two years before it becomes non-reporting.
I'd be surprised if the ones who plead to misdemeanors don't get at least some supervised probation that becomes non-reporting after their community service/anger management class requirements are completed.
I was at the prosecutor's office in Indianapolis (Marion County) and the sentences above were typical. The MCPO was more lenient than what I've seen from Michigan prosecutors though.
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:43 PM ^
With no priors it is highly unlikely any will get time. Khary will definitely get supervised probation, probably for one or two years before it becomes non-reporting.
I'd be surprised if the ones who plead to misdemeanors don't get at least some supervised probation that becomes non-reporting after their community service/anger management class requirements are completed.
I was at the prosecutor's office in Indianapolis (Marion County) and the sentences above were typical. The MCPO was more lenient than what I've seen from Michigan prosecutors though.
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:46 PM ^
That whole incident really ruined a great night for Michigan. Instead of going in to the Rutgers game focused, we had this cloud hanging over our heads.
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^
One could argue that our focus has not been the same since that game (at least the first half focus).
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:53 PM ^
Our focus has been the same for all of the games.
It has been on Ohio State.
November 23rd, 2022 at 9:11 PM ^
And Penn State. Pretty focused with a great game plan for that one.
November 24th, 2022 at 12:04 PM ^
One could argue that our focus has not been the same since that game (at least the first half focus).
Nah. First-half scores prior to the tunnel attack:
Indiana: 10-10
PSU: 16-14
MSU: 13-7
November 24th, 2022 at 6:41 AM ^
Gemon Green finally started last Saturday. Hopefully he is at pre MSU form on Saturday
November 24th, 2022 at 7:40 AM ^
What happened was awful and definitely took away some of the postgame cheer.
My silver lining is that Michigan will absolutely buzzsaw them next year for this. No looking ahead, no relief from ending an 0-2 skid vs Tucker. Michigan will go for 2 because they can’t go for 3.
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^
Thanks for the overview. Makes sense.
November 23rd, 2022 at 9:27 PM ^
If the OP were graded as if it were an essay on the bar exam, he's looking at a 1 or 2 of 10.
November 24th, 2022 at 12:32 PM ^
Yeah but one doesn’t sit the bar exam on the biggest drinking night of the year.
November 23rd, 2022 at 9:04 PM ^
I hope they all get a second chance at another university (all should transfer) that isn't brainwashing hate and vitriol into their heads due to an inferiority complex like MSU has.
The guy swinging the helmet that could have destroyed Gemon's career or worse, cause permanent damage, needs some serious therapy, community service and at least a year away from college football.
I hope they all still graduate and have the opportunity to continue on with their education and lives, but they definitely need some punishment and most importantly to be taken away from that toxic environment that is MSU.
I don't want any of their lives ruined...they are young men who I believe were misled by a disgusting, hate filled, inferiority complex culture at MSU. This does not excuse their actions, but explains their origins, and should also not be a death sentence for their futures.
Tucker looked like a maniac that entire game...the entire thing starts at the top - and Mork was the originator of taking this too far, to the point of trying to injure opposing UM players. I blame the adults first, but yes, the players must take responsibility for their actions as well.
November 23rd, 2022 at 9:25 PM ^
No one is doing time here. Time to move on from this. Beat Ohio.
November 23rd, 2022 at 9:40 PM ^
To be clear, in Washtenaw, my son and I can be walking jubilantly and someone (we'll refer to them as Losers) can concuss my son so he can't work for two weeks and then receive no punishment other than the Supervision they lacked when they began this enterprise by possibly the very same disinterested parties. Got it!
November 23rd, 2022 at 11:04 PM ^
Sooo what do you think should happen?
November 24th, 2022 at 6:16 AM ^
Stockades where people throw rotten cabbage and taunt them. Maybe taunt them a second time.
November 24th, 2022 at 7:41 AM ^
Six lashes with the cat’o’nine tails
November 24th, 2022 at 9:06 PM ^
Taunt them? "I fart in your general direction. "
November 24th, 2022 at 9:18 AM ^
Probation for the 5 and summer jail time for the two (so they can then try and go on to something productive somewhere else-where there are good role models). I don't give a shit about their history or their future really if they harmed me or mine and their records should not be expunged as they are not minors.
November 24th, 2022 at 10:13 AM ^
Krump should get 30 days, he will not get anything but he should. Violent crimes should be punished, when he gets probation and HYTA it will be like this never happened for him.
November 23rd, 2022 at 10:03 PM ^
Sentencing guidelines won’t come into play because the one felony charge will likely be pled to a misdemeanor, and guidelines only apply to felonies. Also, I’d be surprised if anyone but the helmet-swinger got probation (unless there are prior convictions). Side note: guidelines inform sentencing but are rarely followed unless the offender is sentenced to a prison term.
November 23rd, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
Was anyone expecting them to do time? That wasn't even really on my radar.
November 24th, 2022 at 11:17 AM ^
Seems like over half this board wants all these kids imprisoned for a long time. It's weird and troublesome.
November 24th, 2022 at 6:46 PM ^
I could see why you think that seeing as you’re clearly a Michigan state fan. Go back to the rcmb message board. You’re not fooling anyone.
November 23rd, 2022 at 10:20 PM ^
As a criminal defense lawyer in another land. Guidelines are a starting out point for negotiations, but also what may happen if you go balls to the wall trial. Most likely they will have some sort of first offender or differed disposition to make it go away. Which is probably appropriate. They are barely not kids. Make them show they can be better. But if after the video (and I’m sure there is more) makes them want to go to trial, no msu delusion will help them.
November 23rd, 2022 at 11:04 PM ^
So where does hiring attorney Tom Mars come into play here? Is that a separate civil suit and if so what would we expect of that if the defendants plead guilty to any charge at all from the Washtenaw prosecution?
November 24th, 2022 at 2:10 AM ^
He doesn't play any role in criminal proceedings (at least not any direct role -- he probably facilitated the Greens' cooperation with the investigators/prosecutors). Criminal trials are between the accused and the state, not the accused and the victim.
If the Greens bring tort claims against the helmet swinger and the other players, then Mars will probably be their lawyer for that. I would expect any suits to be quietly settled, regardless of how the criminal cases play out.
November 23rd, 2022 at 11:32 PM ^
They won’t serve any time and don’t deserve to. Fines and probation. The whole “ruining lives” cry is a bit much.
November 23rd, 2022 at 11:41 PM ^
I expect they will be back on the field for the bow... Nevermind
November 23rd, 2022 at 11:45 PM ^
I'm interested in his comment, in the interview, that his deadline came hard on the heels of the OSU game, and he felt that the journey was over after that game. Don't think that was my take.
I found the B1G championship very fulfilling, and approached the Georgia game with an attitude of curiousity--would be be able to hang? After the first half, I turned it off with the sense that the season had been a success.
November 24th, 2022 at 12:23 AM ^
Why do I feel like Ingham County prosecutor will be charging our players for sneezing in their tunnel next year?
November 24th, 2022 at 1:00 AM ^
The current one is retiring so they'll have to go through the process of finding a new one first.
November 24th, 2022 at 8:33 AM ^
There is still pending civil action, no? That could turn out to be more consequential for the perps and MSU.
November 24th, 2022 at 8:43 AM ^
Helmet swinger is lucky he didn't crack a skull or kill him. Which was a possibility when you go swinging helmets.
November 24th, 2022 at 8:48 AM ^
I saw a Free Press article(didn't click/paywalled) saying it was an over reach on the charges. To that writer or an any other ahole taking the Sparty players side, if it were their kid or loved won they would change their tune.
November 24th, 2022 at 8:52 AM ^
Hasn't this issue been beaten to death!
November 24th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
I hear Tuck is setting up a Sparty Bail Trust with his bonus money
November 24th, 2022 at 11:02 AM ^
Honestly, I'm really uncomfortable with the charges against all the players except for Crump. Doesn't feel good.
November 24th, 2022 at 12:16 PM ^
I'm all for these guys getting a 2nd chance somewhere else and a chance to clear their record via the HYTA. No one will ever forget them. Their names will be known for years to come via a simple internet search. They will be on a short leash for years to come, wherever they go, even working a job.
That said, there is nothing in their past that showed them to be dirty players (this isn't Mike White's 1980s Illini thug ball), and it's doubtful they graduated from HS with this gruesome attitude. Clearly, young men were corrupted in a perverse, hate-filled environment, almost like a person who joins the Crips is conditioned to hate the Bloods for life, even in prison, and vice versa - only the hatred is all one-way here.
Not a fan of Les Miles today given his off the field baggage at LSU but was a fan of his back in 2007. Also, would have been happy at the time with Schiano. Either of those guys taking over for Lloyd would have likely meant Ryan Mallett stays and we beat MSU at home in 2008 and probably on the road in 2009 again with Mallett. Mork would have never had the 6-1 run against the worst two Michigan coaches since Bump Elliott in the 1960s (and at least Bump won a B1G title and RB). While he would have fueled his hatred, it would have died on the vine sooner or later without success vs. UM. We wouldn't have this lingering abyss of hatred we see today.
I'm done with this subject (till next October) - BEAT OHIO!
November 24th, 2022 at 5:23 PM ^
They're all getting no time, the 6 or 7 non helmet guys will get HYTA status, and if they stay out of trouble this will go away. Helmet guy will plead to an aggravated assault or A&B and do a year, maaaaybe two of probation, and also possibly get HYTA status. Helmet will report to the basement of the dreaded Grady Porter bldg, the scariest building in alllll of Ingham County as all of their respective supervisions will likely be transferred to lansing or maybe even Mason. That's that. *Bangs gavel